Red Sox announce Dave Dombrowski is their new president of baseball operations.

staz

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jtn46 said:
Even if Dombrowki's sole direction is to throw money at big ticket FA's that beats Cherington's attempt to outsmart the league by spending a big ticket payroll on second tier players. If you gamble the way Cherington did, you simply need to hit more often than he did.
This is where I'm at. A ground ball inducing, no-name rotation would have been heralded as genius if it worked. But it didn't. So the needle starts to move away from the fringe. It doesn't mean Henry's collecting everyone's calculators, it means he looking for a better balance.
 

The X Man Cometh

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soxhop411 said:
“@redsoxstats: McAdam says on csnne that it sounds like none of Cherington’s lieutenants are staying. Total overhaul.”

Hopefully that does not mean our international scouting department is out.
 
Yep. It is a testament to international scouting that the pipeline has been so strong despite very little of promise coming out of the '12-'14 domestic drafts. I trust JWH would make a strong effort to reward their outstanding performance and keep that aspect of the organization in place.
 

Doctor G

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adam42381 said:
I'm happy that they're making a move, but really don't want Wren taking over for Ben. Holding out hopes, however slim, for Beane.
Wren had solid bullpens in Atlanta.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
I think all this talking about certain prospects as off limits is missing the point. Nobody should be off limits. The question is always what the return is and how the entire body of transactions affects the long term.
 
FanSinceBoggs said:
 
There is no evidence for this.  Sandoval, in particular, seems like a good team guy, a leader.
 
I can never tell if people are serious when they say stuff like this. Did you totally miss the post-signing mishegas with Sandoval dishing on his ex-teammates? He acted like a passive-aggressive, narcissistic little shit. 
 

moondog80

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For the money the Sox owe Pablo and Hanley, that's pretty much what the Tigers are spending for 4 more years of Verlander and Cabrera's 2023 season. (If you want to get technical and adjust for inflation you can also get the final two months of 2022 for Miggy,)
 

soxhop411

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“@beckjason: Dombrowski said two weeks ago he could build new circle of assistants at next stop. So, not expecting him to poach Tigers circle.”
 

SoxLegacy

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Buzzkill Pauley said:
The difference is, what did the core of the Red Sox look like after 2012? And even with Gonzalez, Beckett, and Crawford gone, the core was damn good.

Now with the Sox, and when Dombrowski first took over the Tigers, not so much.

Remember that Dombrowski was the guy who sold off a star in Granderson in order to acquire Scherzer before he was great. And sold off two young "studs" to get Cabrera to be his team's cornerstone.

FWIW, I think the only players who really may qualify as "untouchable" at this moment are Ortiz, Bogaerts, EdRo, Moncada, Kopech, and Espinoza. The pitching from AA-MLB is so bad that to build a pennant-winning staff, everyone else needs to be on the table.

And based on Dombrowski's whole corpus of work, not just the last few years trying to get Detroit a title on the core strength of Cabrera, Verlander, and Scherzer that it's just as likely vets get moved for top prospects as the other way around.
Really? Pedroia, Swihart, Betts are to become trade fodder? Wow, I certainly hope not.
 

kieckeredinthehead

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TheYaz67 said:
 
"Blame the owner" is probably not a great strategy, when you are interviewing with other team owners for a new job, so Ben's going to have to come up with something better than that to land his next gig.
Maybe he can ask DD for tips.
 

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foulkehampshire said:
If you look at the Tiger's bullpens since 2011, its really not the nightmare we make it out to be. Most years they were 1 guy away from being decent. Soria, Alberquerque, Benoit were a solid top 3. All they lacked was a shutdown closer.
 
Take away Miller and Koji and the Sox are in pretty rough shape, as evidenced by 2015. I think the board is over-maligning the bullpen issue due to playoff duds in postseasons.
 
Detroit was pretty strapped for RP help due to over-allocation of resources to marquee FA and a barren farm system. The Sox have plenty of pieces next year and money to spent to hopefully rectify the issue, and probably a more patient owner as well.
Not to mention the manager is the guy who kept trotting Nathan and Valverde's decaying corpses out there at the end of games when they were no longer the best options.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Savin Hillbilly said:
BTW, I had never actually looked at a picture of Dombrowski till tonight. Let the Mister Rogers era commence!
From "Three Little Birds" to "It's A Wonderful Day in the Neighborhood."
 

MuzzyField

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yecul said:
Anyone taking over this team will look like a genius when the fruit ripens. The key thing to watch is how aggressive they are to lock in a winner. Easy to see trading future for now to satiate the masses.

I was never terribly impressed with DD in Detroit. Put together good teams but pretty top heavy, overly reliant on throwing around the money and lacked at the fringes at times. Sacrificing long term stability and fexibilitu and coherency with big ticket contracts can work but not over the long haul.

We will see. I think that BC missed his fair share but I felt he was hitting it in the long term areas.
The Red Sox have only been out "thrown" when it comes to money by the Tigers once this century (2008) and the Sox were next in the payroll line.
Ben has been spending, too.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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TheYaz67 said:
 
"Blame the owner" is probably not a great strategy, when you are interviewing with other team owners for a new job, so Ben's going to have to come up with something better than that to land his next gig.
 
Really? I'm guessing a lot of owners would like to think they're the smartest guy in the room, and would be particularly happy to imagine themselves smarter than John Henry. 
 

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MuzzyField said:
The Red Sox have only been out "thrown" when it comes to money by the Tigers once this century (2008) and the Sox were next in the payroll line.
Ben has been spending, too.
Ben has spent but he spent on the wrong players.
 

Buzzkill Pauley

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SoxLegacy said:
Really? Pedroia, Swihart, Betts are to become trade fodder? Wow, I certainly hope not.
Like I said about 30-HR hitting, All-Star CF Curtis Granderson, it isn't fodder, when the trade gets you five years of Max Scherzer before Free Agency.
 

FanSinceBoggs

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Savin Hillbilly said:
I think all this talking about certain prospects as off limits is missing the point. Nobody should be off limits. The question is always what the return is and how the entire body of transactions affects the long term.
 
 
I can never tell if people are serious when they say stuff like this. Did you totally miss the post-signing mishegas with Sandoval dishing on his ex-teammates? He acted like a passive-aggressive, narcissistic little shit. 
 
He had problems with the Giants organization, less problems with teammates, right?  It is my understanding he was a bit of a leader with the Giants.  That isn't correct?
 
And then I read this earlier in the 2015 season:
Sandoval has already made quite an impression on his new teammates and coaches. . .[he] is considered a leader despite his short time with the organization."
http://nesn.com/2015/03/pablo-sandoval-defends-comments-about-giants-shows-love-for-red-sox/
 

nvalvo

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Buzzkill Pauley said:
And based on Dombrowski's whole corpus of work, not just the last few years trying to get Detroit a title on the core strength of Cabrera, Verlander, and Scherzer that it's just as likely vets get moved for top prospects as the other way around.
 
I was going to say the same thing. His best work has been acquiring young players on the cusp of breakout. 
 

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Change is gut-wrenching but this had to be done, the Red Sox have a stud-filled minor league system and the third highest payroll at the start of the season. Why are they so shitty with resources like this? I am happy ownership went in a new direction. I cannot see DD trading young players and prospects for the hell of it. The best position players by WAR on this team right now are Xander and Mookie and they are both 22. He would have to get a hell of a lot in return.
 

curly2

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FanSinceBoggs said:
 
He had problems with the Giants organization, less problems with teammates, right?  It is my understanding he was a bit of a leader with the Giants.  That isn't correct?
 
No. He said he would miss Bochy, but the only player from the team he would miss was Pence.
 

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Dombrowski is a solid get. I like that they made the move now rather than waiting into the off season.

I hope he doesn't come in here and start trading away the young guys like there is no tomorrow. There is a tomorrow and I'd like to have a good team then, too.

I would imagine that Cherington doesn't go more than a year or so without a GM job.

I'm excited and a bit nervous about the off season.
 

Laser Show

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I don't know what to think. Would've liked to see Cherington stay but I understand the change. I'm kind of meh on Dombrowski. If he hires Dipoto and doesn't trade Devers Moncada Benintendi or Espinoza (or the obvious big leaguers) then I'll be cautiously optimistic.
 

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DD reportedly offered Ben opportunity to stay on as GM.
 
Flashback: When DD took over Tigers as team president for 2002, GM Randy Smith stayed on. And was canned six games into the season (with the Tigers 0-6) and DD took over GM role as well.
 

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foulkehampshire said:
 
With Ortiz on the roster? 
 
I assume this is a joke. Ortiz would be thrilled to have any high-quality starter join the staff.
 

FanSinceBoggs

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Is there any evidence to support the claim that Sandoval is a bad teammate in Boston or bad for team chemistry?  Is there any evidence to support the claim that Hanley is a bad teammate in Boston or bad for team chemistry?  I don't think so.  Many of us want Hanley out of here because he can't play defense -- he is fine as a teammate.
 

Cellar-Door

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Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat said:
Pedroia is not trade fodder. Betts is probably not trade fodder. Swihart might well become trade fodder if one of the young, cost-controlled stud starters are in play.
I think Dombrowski would be willing to trade Pedroia, and for the right price it makes plenty of baseball sense. I don't think the owners would agree though.
 

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Cellar-Door said:
I think Dombrowski would be willing to trade Pedroia, and for the right price it makes plenty of baseball sense. I don't think the owners would agree though.
 
Pedroia has to agree too, I believe.
 

soxhop411

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So how long until a GM is hired? I think we get news by the end of next week.
 

8slim

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Avid fans tend to get verrrry attached to prospects, for obvious reasons. I don't expect new management to gut the farm system just to do it. But trading for MLB talent is not something to inherently fear.
 

tomdeplonty

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Does anybody else think it's a little odd that the Globe article (linked above) basically says one of the first things on DD's plate is to ship Hanley out of town?
 
Is that just speculation from Abraham and Cafardo, or did somebody tell them something? Why would it be announced in advance like that?
 

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Harry Hooper said:
 
Pedroia has to agree too, I believe.
 

I don't think he has 10 years yet, and his no-trade is limited.
Of course it's probably irrelevant, Ownership isn't going to let Pedroia be traded.
 

soxhop411

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sfederman said:
I was just reading an article on the 2002 housecleaning 6 games in that DD did, and noticed an interesting quote:
 
People evolve in their stances. Hopefully DD has.
 
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soxhop411 said:
So how long until a GM is hired? I think we get news by the end of next week.
They won't make a move to replace Ben till probably after the last out of the World Series.  There's only two weeks left of any meaningful changes a GM can make before then (or whenever the waiver deadline is), so I'm sure they'll take their sweet time and really examine all avenues open to them.  Same goes with manager.
 

nothumb

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FanSinceBoggs said:
Is there any evidence to support the claim that Sandoval is a bad teammate in Boston or bad for team chemistry?  Is there any evidence to support the claim that Hanley is a bad teammate in Boston or bad for team chemistry?  I don't think so.  Many of us want Hanley out of here because he can't play defense -- he is fine as a teammate.
 
I don't know where the line is between "teammate" and "player," but to me, the fact that both have shown an unwillingness or inability to put in work and adjust (Pablo based on his weight, Hanley based on his inability to play any kind of defense) is not good for the clubhouse or the rest of the team. What is a guy like JBJ supposed to think when the two highest paid guys on the team can't even stay on the field or away from a buffet? If I'm investing 20M/year in a player I want it to be someone who other guys look at and understand why he deserves it, unequivocally. I mean, I also want it to be a guy worth 20M/year if possible, that's primary, but having a locker room where the best players make the least money, and where a guy like Brock Holt or JBJ has to be willing to play wherever whenever while Hanley apparently can't even think about switching positions without spraining something... it is not good.
 

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Cellar-Door said:
I think Dombrowski would be willing to trade Pedroia, and for the right price it makes plenty of baseball sense. I don't think the owners would agree though.
This is exactly what I see when I think about Ortiz and his quest for 500 with the Sox. He is the elder statesman, the face of the Sox.

And maybe if Farrell were still going to manage the team, and if Lucchino were still going to be a decision-maker, you'd be spot-on. You certainly still might be. But I'm not so sure Henry and Werner are that emotionally tied to Pedroia, and Dombrowski and GMTBNL certainly won't be.

IMO, it will come down to value. Because Pedey can't pitch every give days, and that is absolutely what the Red Sox need most to build a contender.
 

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nothumb said:
 
I don't know where the line is between "teammate" and "player," but to me, the fact that both have shown an unwillingness or inability to put in work and adjust (Pablo based on his weight, Hanley based on his inability to play any kind of defense) is not good for the clubhouse or the rest of the team. What is a guy like JBJ supposed to think when the two highest paid guys on the team can't even stay on the field or away from a buffet? If I'm investing 20M/year in a player I want it to be someone who other guys look at and understand why he deserves it, unequivocally. I mean, I also want it to be a guy worth 20M/year if possible, that's primary, but having a locker room where the best players make the least money, and where a guy like Brock Holt or JBJ has to be willing to play wherever whenever while Hanley apparently can't even think about switching positions without spraining something... it is not good.
So basically you mean you're going to speculate wildly without any evidence of any unwillingness on the part of either?
 

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Dombrowski worked for lunatics in Florida and an owner in Detroit who makes Keith Richards look like The Rock. The game plan is different in Boston; I suspect he'll adapt.
 

nothumb

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mikeford said:
The spectre of Frank Wren terrifies me. The guy thought giving 75 mil to BJ UPTON was a good idea.
 
The move was an unmitigated disaster, but a lot of people praised it at the time. Personally I'd prefer a guy like DiPoto, and think it would be a nice balance... I just don't see why the Sox would bring him in to shadow Ben if he's not a major candidate. And watching the Sox kick the shit out of the Angels with him in charge would be sweet.
 

nothumb

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Cellar-Door said:
So basically you mean you're going to speculate wildly without any evidence of any unwillingness on the part of either?
 
Hanley is on record saying he can't play 1B because it involves bending over and he can't take OF practice without hurting himself. It's not speculation at all.
 
And Pablo, until recently, had made several remarks to the effect of "I don't want to hear anything about my weight, and that's part of why I left SF." I read something in the last week or so where he finally acknowledged the issue needs to change, which is good. Will believe it when I see it.
 

sfederman

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canderson said:
Thirteen years is also a very long time for opinions to change or a quote to be out of context.
 
 
soxhop411 said:
People evolve in their stances. Hopefully DD has.
 
Agreed. Just struck me while reading the article.
 
But, wouldn't you agree that there is some truth to it? The minor leagues are important, but are not the goal.
 

Buzzkill Pauley

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nvalvo said:
 
That's chilling. 
What should be more chilling is the mention that the Tigers' last winning season before the article was written was 9 seasons prior.

Results do matter, and making trades from the minors is a part of the game. What's important is to trade the right minor leaguers away for the right major league players. And vice-versa.

And that can't happen without strong evaluators at every level of the organization.