Red Sox hook Crochet for Kyle Teel, Braden Montgomery, Chase Meidroth and Wikelman Gonzalez
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Tough, if the Sox believe in Crochet as a long-term solution (and I am begging they have an extension as part of this) that's a reasonable price. Teel is obviously a real big-time prospect but catchers are quite tough to project out. If you go back to 2019's Top Catching Prospects, your top catching prospect was at #22 and was Joey Bart. You also had Francisco Mejia, Keibert Ruiz, and Sean Murphy in the Top 50 - Murphy is the only one of those four you might feel somewhat bad about Teel turning into. He could obviously be better of course - if he's Adley this will suck. But here's the #3 catching prospect in baseball from 2011 to present
'11, '13 - Gary Sanchez
'12 - Travis d'Arnaud
'14, '16, '17 - Jorge Alfaro
'15 - Kyle Schwarber (fun fact, #1 this year was Blake Swihart)
'18, '19 - Keibert Ruiz
'20 - Sean Murphy
'21 - Luis Campusano
'22 - Francisco Alvarez
'23 - Kevin Parada
'24 - Kyle Teel
High floor for sure - I think every player but Parada and Teel (obviously) got to the majors and were contributors at some level, but none of them were really huge stars to regret losing if you traded them for something of value.
Braden Montgomery is a major unknown - obviously big ceiling to be taken first round but he hasn't taken a professional pitch yet, could be huge but there's a ton of hurdles. Meidroth or Wikelman shouldn't hold up a deal - certainly both have potential value but I feel like if Meidroth is a huge loss for the Sox something really got effed up along the way with a lot of other guys and Wikelman struggled a lot les year and might be more meant for relief work.
Ultimately, this is the cost of a guy like this. One year of Corbin Burnes for Baltimore cost Joey Ortiz (who is already a productive pro in Milwaukee, DL Hall, and the 34th pick in the draft. The Padres gave up Drew Thorpe, Samuel Zavala, Jairo Iriarte, and Steven Wilson for Cease (Who they are shopping now) - similar to Boston three of their top ten prospects with two years of control. The price for Crochet was presumably higher due to his more affordable salary and potentially higher end stuff - and that Cease was worse in Chicago in 2023 than Crochet was in 2024.
This is obviously one the Sox could look back on and cringe on badly. Teel and Montgomery are LEGIT prospects with high end abilities and Meidroth and Gonzalez both have MLB level upside and value, but pretty much any deal - signing or trade - for a guy with Crochet's upside and talent is going to be that. Now, the big question is Crochet's ability to...actually pitch innings. Before last year he never threw - in college or the pros - more than 65 innings in a year. He got to 146 last year. If he can regularly do 150 IPs he's going to be worth this. If he can't? Well, that's your big risk. That and him not re-signing or the Sox trading him next year for a smaller package if it becomes evident he won't potentially.
'11, '13 - Gary Sanchez
'12 - Travis d'Arnaud
'14, '16, '17 - Jorge Alfaro
'15 - Kyle Schwarber (fun fact, #1 this year was Blake Swihart)
'18, '19 - Keibert Ruiz
'20 - Sean Murphy
'21 - Luis Campusano
'22 - Francisco Alvarez
'23 - Kevin Parada
'24 - Kyle Teel
High floor for sure - I think every player but Parada and Teel (obviously) got to the majors and were contributors at some level, but none of them were really huge stars to regret losing if you traded them for something of value.
Braden Montgomery is a major unknown - obviously big ceiling to be taken first round but he hasn't taken a professional pitch yet, could be huge but there's a ton of hurdles. Meidroth or Wikelman shouldn't hold up a deal - certainly both have potential value but I feel like if Meidroth is a huge loss for the Sox something really got effed up along the way with a lot of other guys and Wikelman struggled a lot les year and might be more meant for relief work.
Ultimately, this is the cost of a guy like this. One year of Corbin Burnes for Baltimore cost Joey Ortiz (who is already a productive pro in Milwaukee, DL Hall, and the 34th pick in the draft. The Padres gave up Drew Thorpe, Samuel Zavala, Jairo Iriarte, and Steven Wilson for Cease (Who they are shopping now) - similar to Boston three of their top ten prospects with two years of control. The price for Crochet was presumably higher due to his more affordable salary and potentially higher end stuff - and that Cease was worse in Chicago in 2023 than Crochet was in 2024.
This is obviously one the Sox could look back on and cringe on badly. Teel and Montgomery are LEGIT prospects with high end abilities and Meidroth and Gonzalez both have MLB level upside and value, but pretty much any deal - signing or trade - for a guy with Crochet's upside and talent is going to be that. Now, the big question is Crochet's ability to...actually pitch innings. Before last year he never threw - in college or the pros - more than 65 innings in a year. He got to 146 last year. If he can regularly do 150 IPs he's going to be worth this. If he can't? Well, that's your big risk. That and him not re-signing or the Sox trading him next year for a smaller package if it becomes evident he won't potentially.
That could mean that, until they were, the White Sox were demanding Anthony, Cambell, Abreu and Casas.
It can't really be that the Red Sox were only offering Meidroth and Gonzalez.
This is a 100% correct, it is just the visceral reaction to realizing we are going to have see Wong as our starting catcher for the foreseeable future
That's a straw man argument. I just said I'm ok with the Crochet trade, disproving your argument. There is an inherent value in keeping prospects - to see a percentage of them bloom into controllable talent. Again, you miss the boat.
Montgomery is talented, but let’s relax here. He has played as many pro games as you and I.
Exactly what vision are you looking for? They built up a system to the point where they got a 25 year old stud pitcher without using their top 3 prospects or any young major league talent. That’s using your system correctly.
If we can get Sean Murphy from the Braves somehow, that would be fantastic. Still a little confused on why the Braves are willing to trade him since he is signed through 2029 at a reasonable price. They seem to have middle infield problems, I heard they love Vaughn Grissom?
Montgomery ETA in soxprospects is 2027. Duran and Abreu are under team control through 2029 and 2030. Roman Anthony through 2031 if he starts the season on the major league team. The org has done a good job recently developing position players. We kept Campbell, Anthony, and Mayer. The White Sox were probably looking for players without any major league service time considering they were one of the worst teams in the history of the game last year. Jhostynxon Garcia and Miguel Bleis are still in the system as well, we have decent OF prospect depth.
Montgomery ETA in soxprospects is 2027. Duran and Abreu are under team control through 2029 and 2030. Roman Anthony through 2031 if he starts the season on the major league team. The org has done a good job recently developing position players. We kept Campbell, Anthony, and Mayer. The White Sox were probably looking for players without any major league service time considering they were one of the worst teams in the history of the game last year. Jhostynxon Garcia and Miguel Bleis are still in the system as well, we have decent OF prospect depth.
Agree with all of this but I think this is a good deal better than both of the packages you mentioned (especially the Cease one)
Morosi made it sound like Teel and Montgomery were part of separate packages offered, but not until today they were both included in the same offer.
You have to imagine there were other prospects that were switched out for Teel and Montgomery.
Corbin Burnes (3.55) is closer in xFIP to Austin Gomber (4.50) than he is to Garrett Crochet (2.38). And Gomber was 4th worst among qualified starters in MLB last year.
Yes, any pitcher can have problems at any point. But I don't think it's unfair to be leery of a guy that's had recurring elbow and shoulder trouble going back to college and a delivery that scouts note as contributing to that as potentially carrying extra risk.
That said, when he's throwing he's phenomenal so extend him please.
This is a great trade. Having Teel around was nice but the upside didn't seem especially high as a hit-over-power type. Losing Braden Montgomery hurts but there was no way we were keeping all of our corner outfield prospects, and he's very far away.
Basically we were lucky that both of those guys fell to us in the last two drafts, and that good fortune made up the bulk of this trade.
Basically we were lucky that both of those guys fell to us in the last two drafts, and that good fortune made up the bulk of this trade.
They had no other path to acquiring a pitcher of his caliber or age, and there was intense competition, not to mention the ever escalating value placed on top power starters.
You build a farm system like theirs precisely to make a move like this without leaving the cupboard bare. Good, but not elite, catching prospects are a lottery unto themselves.
You build a farm system like theirs precisely to make a move like this without leaving the cupboard bare. Good, but not elite, catching prospects are a lottery unto themselves.
Absolutely. I realized around when I hit send I didn't really define that this package is much richer. Drew Thorpe was a bottom of the Top 100 kind of prospect and Zavala was tantalizing but Teel/Montgomery is a much better/more valuable pair. I probably just feel Crochet is worth a good chunk more than Cease in this spot too to offset it.
And they'll have a pretty decent draft slot as well. One thing they've shown is an ability to draft good players.
Love this move -- GFIN while the Yankees still have problems with their lineup ( Fried was an overpay and not much of an upgrade nor a position of need for the yankees ) and the orioles have done little to improve. Our rotation is now:
1 - Crochet
2 - Houck
3 - Bello
4 - Giolito
5 - Crawford
Our bullpen has decent depth along with a host of spot starters:
6 -Criswell
7 - Fitts
8 - Preister
Lineup could use a RHH bat but the big gap here was starting pitching
In addition the farm system still has:
Mayer (SS)
Anthony (CF)
Bleis (CF)
Campbell (OF/IF)
Yoelin Cespedes (2B)
Jhostynxon Garcia (OF)
Allan Castro (OF)
along with a bevy of pitching prospects:
Elmer Rodriguez-Cruz (SP)
Jedixson Paez (SP)
Luis Perales (RP)
David Sandlin (SP)
This reminds me a little of the Sale deal where we dealt primarily struggling players for Chris Sale in his prime. Its possible that Cespedes, Garcia and Castro fail to adjust to AA, its also possible they hit like they did in earlier seasons and establish another crop of outfielders ready for trading. Red Sox can reload most of the lost value in the draft this year, so not a big deal when thinking 2027 and beyond.
1 - Crochet
2 - Houck
3 - Bello
4 - Giolito
5 - Crawford
Our bullpen has decent depth along with a host of spot starters:
6 -Criswell
7 - Fitts
8 - Preister
Lineup could use a RHH bat but the big gap here was starting pitching
In addition the farm system still has:
Mayer (SS)
Anthony (CF)
Bleis (CF)
Campbell (OF/IF)
Yoelin Cespedes (2B)
Jhostynxon Garcia (OF)
Allan Castro (OF)
along with a bevy of pitching prospects:
Elmer Rodriguez-Cruz (SP)
Jedixson Paez (SP)
Luis Perales (RP)
David Sandlin (SP)
This reminds me a little of the Sale deal where we dealt primarily struggling players for Chris Sale in his prime. Its possible that Cespedes, Garcia and Castro fail to adjust to AA, its also possible they hit like they did in earlier seasons and establish another crop of outfielders ready for trading. Red Sox can reload most of the lost value in the draft this year, so not a big deal when thinking 2027 and beyond.
If you're OK with the trade then I really don't understand why you're insisting that I've missed the point. Prospects can either be kept or traded. We just traded some.
*edit* This was then post that set you off: "People get too attached to prospects. Especially diehard fans. In this case, attached to a guy who's never suited up for the organization. "
You're disputing that people get too attached to prospects? Because some people do.
Put me in the “I like it” crowd. Not excited about giving up Teel/Monty but it’s the cost of doing business. I view this like a trade up for a QB. If he’s what you think he is, you’re happy. If he’s not, you’re not.
If they can’t get an extension done, I like it a lot less. That is the key part for me.
If they can’t get an extension done, I like it a lot less. That is the key part for me.
Especially draft good position players -- our pitching development has struggled.
Nobody is saying that we shouldn't trade prospects ever.
I'm saying that great pitching was available for only money, just like last year. And both years, we basically decided not to spend real money. So sure, if you want to add an arm, you can dump two high ceiling guys, one low cost high floor player, and a lottery ticket and get an arm. But he's not Pedro Martinez or Chris Sale. So we spent some future WAR for 2025 WAR, instead of just incrementally adding WAR like most top revenue teams do.
Is there a deal where all of the "who cares about prospects" posters in this thread would have said "nope, that's too much." Seems like the answer to that question is no.
I'll admit this is right if they have the 25 year old pitcher for more than a year or two, and assuming he pitches something reasonably close to a full season both years. But as of right now this is 6 years of a guy who was seen as one of the best players in the draft, six years of the 2nd best catching prospect in baseball, for two years of a guy who has never thrown more than 180 innings.
Looks like a solid deal to me. Nothing is gonna be cheap in this market and while Crochet has some question marks, he’s also very young, awesome, and open about wanting an extension. Add an FA arm (not sure what’s left outside of Burnes and Buehler), sort out catcher, and bring back Kimbrel because if we’re adding guys who were awesome 7 years ago to the bullpen then I want my binky back.
Would also like to see them put some of what Soto would’ve gotten towards extending some of the kids.
Would also like to see them put some of what Soto would’ve gotten towards extending some of the kids.
I nominate Henry as tribute.
Too soon?
But in all seriousness, it’s a major haul in prospects to Chicago. But isn’t Crochet what you HOPE prospects turn into? And then, inevitably, one out of every 300 or so actually do?
They still need to sign Burnes imo for this to be a successful offseason. And maybe sign/trade for an actual catcher that can play in Boston.
This was my read too. I could see the base offer being something like Top 5 Prospect (Teel or Montgomery) + Abreu + 2-3 of those organizational kind of prospects and they acquiesced to both prospects and removing Abreu to get it done.
Yeah and his dropping K rate is very worrying. I'd be more in on Pivetta or a buy low on Buehler.
The real difference is that we can define what a dollar is. They Red Sox may have actually traded nothing (or very little) to get Crochet. (And, as with FA, they may have received nothing, or very little)
Well, I'm sad it's Teel going, but I really didn't want any of the Top 4 going anywhere
But it's the cost of doing business
Get this extension signed with Crochet while he's still young and somewhat cheap, because the cost only goes up if he has another good year and gets closer to FA
But it's the cost of doing business
Get this extension signed with Crochet while he's still young and somewhat cheap, because the cost only goes up if he has another good year and gets closer to FA
I like it a lot. It helps the Red Sox be a better team 2025, which is what we all want. I'll add to the chorus of voices that wants to see him extended.
Very interested to see what comes next, I think this was the first step to something good.
Very interested to see what comes next, I think this was the first step to something good.
Come on now.
I'm not arguing that Crochet is prime Sale (he's not), so yes, we "got" less. But the Sox gave up a heck of a lot less, too.
At the time of the deal, Moncada was the 2/2/5 prospect in the game (per BA/MLB/BP) and Kopech was 32/16/36.
Teel is 25th on MLB (and I'm admittedly not sure where on the other two but I strongly doubt it's top 10). Montgomery is 54th on MLB (and similarly I don't know so I'll guess similar and say 54/50/50. Could they end up being more than Moncada and Kopech, of course, but to say they are worth more now than Moncada and Kopech were then seems unfair.
I am ok with the trade.
I don’t love it, definitely don’t think it’s some heist for the Red Sox but it’s the cost of doing business. I would have much preferred paying 37 year old Max Fried $20 million in 2030.
Crochet has great stuff and makes the team better. Now let’s sign some free agents who aren’t bargain basement to augment this
I don’t love it, definitely don’t think it’s some heist for the Red Sox but it’s the cost of doing business. I would have much preferred paying 37 year old Max Fried $20 million in 2030.
Crochet has great stuff and makes the team better. Now let’s sign some free agents who aren’t bargain basement to augment this
What? Moncada was the best prospect in baseball at the time and Kopech was highly regarded too.
This is awesome. Crochet has Cy Young stuff. Prospects are just wishes, and we got a guy who’s shone he can dominate in the major leagues.
1) We may still sign a FA starter.
2) We still have, what, a dozen+ prospects that people here think have legit, near-term major league potential? I'll admit that I tend to care very little about trading prospects unless the guy is right on the precipice of being a contributor (see: Anthony). I'll always remember people freaking out about losing Al Jefferson when we got Garnett.
This is my point exactly. There's basically no downside to signing a Burnes or Fried. Every team in the league has bad contracts. Inevitably they're going to have to extend Crochet too, and their age advantage is matched by his lack of experience advantage. But now we have to issue a similar contract (hopefully?) while also losing two top 5 prospects. That's just clumsy reactionary management - the same management that signs Rusney Castillo and offers terrible contracts to guys like Hanley Ramirez and Pablo Sandoval. It's no different.
The opportunity cost of trading players is much higher than money (especially since the team is so far under the luxury tax).
Those prospects may amount to nothing but they could have been used in different trades to augment the team in different ways
Crochet is by far the closer to Sale than the closest of available free agent pitchers are to him. Crochet is really really good.
It’s also weird in that many of the same people who don’t want the team to trade prospects also insist they shouldn’t move guys like Duran, Casas, Abreu, etc. If you want to make moves, you have to be willing to give up something of value! A prospects ranking, on its own, is not really meaningful.
The fact that Connor Wong is now our only realistic catching option for the future is probably the most disappointing. The other 3 prospects we have are from positions of depth. Teel was it for catching depth. Don’t really know how we replace him unless they get Murphy, who is declining, and it’ll probably cost Abreu, which is another overpay. At the end of the day, I just hope they spend the money they might’ve spent on Burnes or Fried and use it to either extend Crochet or make more moves. If this is the only major move they make this offseason, then it’s a colossal failure imo. A move like this is made by a World Series contender, which without more moves they are not. An extension is pivotal for this trade to make sense in my eyes.
People will point to the stats over his last 12 starts, like James Stewart just did on Twitter.
Over those last 12 starts, he had a .391 BABIP against, and a 3.58 FIP
Over those last 12 starts, he had a .391 BABIP against, and a 3.58 FIP
As has been pointed out by others in response to Seels, Moncada was the top rated prospect in baseball. I wouldn’t define him as a primarily struggling player.