Red Sox in season discussion

Petagine in a Bottle

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Signing Story requires giving up a comp pick, right? Is that still a thing? I think if you were gonna do that you’d want at least a 2 year deal, as X insurance and potential (best case scenario) bridge to Mayer, but Story won’t want that. If it’s just a one year deal, it’s an upgrade, but seems like purely a rental. I guess it’s just money so not much downside…
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I'm gonna keep arguing for something more nuanced: That maybe Bloom is deserving of mixed reviews. Do we have to divide ourselves into the Pollyannas and the Eeyores? Might all this - like everything - exist on a continuum? I like Bloom's rebuilding of the farm. I like his ability to sign some undervalued guys like Kiké. He seems like a good and intelligent person. I also sense he's afraid to spend - prospects or money - is somewhat risk adverse. Maybe my feeble pessimistic mind can't comprehend his 3-D chess grand plan. Or maybe I'm onto something.

Meanwhile, I do see what appears to me to be a good deal of Bloom hero worship going on on this site. Folks who bray in outrage if anyone criticizes Bloom and invalidate that criticism as some sort of congenital pessimism. Maybe Bloom deserves some criticism. And some praise. He's good at what he does, but he's not perfect.
You are correct that Bloom deserves criticism. I just think that criticism should be reserved for things he does rather than things we think he didn't do.
 

BringBackMo

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I also sense he's afraid to spend - prospects or money - is somewhat risk adverse.
I know I'm not going to respect myself in the morning for re-engaging. But I'll just say that when you are running the Boston Red Sox, not spending in prospects and money is the exact opposite of being risk averse. The safe course is to spend, spend, spend. The risky one is to do what he's doing.
 

NJ_Sox_Fan

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Phillies could have Harper/Schwarber/Castellanos now in the middle of that order

Re: Story, if it’s not huge money I am all for it. They lost a lot of potential offense in Renfroe and Schwarber and need some bats.
 

YTF

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I'm gonna keep arguing for something more nuanced: That maybe Bloom is deserving of mixed reviews. Do we have to divide ourselves into the Pollyannas and the Eeyores? Might all this - like everything - exist on a continuum? I like Bloom's rebuilding of the farm. I like his ability to sign some undervalued guys like Kiké. He seems like a good and intelligent person. I also sense he's afraid to spend - prospects or money - is somewhat risk adverse. Maybe my feeble pessimistic mind can't comprehend his 3-D chess grand plan. Or maybe I'm onto something.

Meanwhile, I do see what appears to me to be a good deal of Bloom hero worship going on on this site. Folks who bray in outrage if anyone criticizes Bloom and invalidate that criticism as some sort of congenital pessimism. Maybe Bloom deserves some criticism. And some praise. He's good at what he does, but he's not perfect.
Help me with this.
 

Minneapolis Millers

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Not gonna lie, I’m a little torn re Story. I’d really like the Twins, who need a SS, to splurge and get him, having dumped Donaldson’s contract. But a pillow contract, maybe one with an expensive club option for year two, would be a good get for us.
 

chawson

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Not gonna lie, I’m a little torn re Story. I’d really like the Twins, who need a SS, to splurge and get him, having dumped Donaldson’s contract. But a pillow contract, maybe one with an expensive club option for year two, would be a good get for us.
What’s wrong with Polanco?
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Generally don't have too much to add here. I was hoping for Schwarber and Suzuki, especially after they dealt Renfroe (which I really don't quite get, but Bloom deserves all the patience in the world from me). Was then assuming he would deal JDM (or Dalbec) and a few prospects to get one of the A's SPs.
At this point the last of my hopes could happen if they get Story (I don't really care for him personally but he would be an upgrade from Arroyo and would be a short term fix- if it's not a one year deal) and would have enough to deal for one of the A's guys (w/o including JDM... who I think they clearly need to hold onto for '22 now) without shredding the farm too much although I would guarantee that at least Downs, Jordan and one of the Portland SP's from '21 will be gone.
My prediction is that nothing happens. This is the team they're going in with. Still good enough for a playoff team.
 

koufax32

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Trevor Story in a nutshell:
.972 home ops

.752 road ops


Not at these prices, thank you.
 

Minneapolis Millers

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Back to Story: What if we offered 5/$125M and an opt-out after year 2. It’d be with the understanding that he’ll play 2d this year, move to SS if we don’t resign X, but if we do, be able to leave after year 2 if he wants. Would people be ok with that?

MLBTR predicted 6/$126, so this would be fewer years, higher AAV. Something like 6/$140 could work, too. (MLBTR has been a little low on their predictions, I think.)
 

Minneapolis Millers

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A lot of that road ops is based on games in SF, SD, and LA which suppresses offense. .658/.681/.770 respectively
It’s kind of funny. Rockies hitters go the whole year vacillating between “I’m great! I suck!” depending on where they’re playing. We think the shift f’s with hitters minds?? Think about playing for Colorado, in that division!
 

curly2

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Do we all -- Eeyores, huge Bloom fans and we moderates -- agree that Bloom needs to extend Devers, ideally before this season, before he can go into his walk year? I don't want to see him in another uniform in 2024 -- or 2023 if they trade him thinking they won't sign him.
 

BigSoxFan

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Do we all -- Eeyores, huge Bloom fans and we moderates -- agree that Bloom needs to extend Devers, ideally before this season, before he can go into his walk year? I don't want to see him in another uniform in 2024 -- or 2023 if they trade him thinking they won't sign him.
Yes, it would be a huge organizational failure if Devers isn't extended before he hits FA. I'm not overly worried about it. They should get it done.
 

curly2

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Yes, it would be a huge organizational failure if Devers isn't extended before he hits FA. I'm not overly worried about it. They should get it done.
I think getting that done would eliminate some of the "Tampa Bay-itis" some of the Eeyores fear.
 

Ale Xander

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The Dodgers are the Dodgers because a lot of people want to play and live in southern California — not as true for Boston. But if that’s the case, what’s the Plan B? Why hasn’t Devers even so much as received a contract extension? Why haven’t we gotten in on more of the salary dump trades besides JBJ?
Padres haven't been in the World Series in the last 20 years
Angels have under-performed in the last 15 or so years despite having the best player in baseball for the last half of them.

There's more to it than just being in Socal. The front office actually knows what they're doing and the ownership supports the effort.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Do we all -- Eeyores, huge Bloom fans and we moderates -- agree that Bloom needs to extend Devers, ideally before this season, before he can go into his walk year? I don't want to see him in another uniform in 2024 -- or 2023 if they trade him thinking they won't sign him.
Sure. Bloom said the other day that he's looking forward to talking extensions, but that the first priority right now is squaring away the current roster. Given that he has three weeks until opening day, I suspect extensions won't be getting done before the season. That goes for Devers, Bogaerts or anyone else.
Yes, it would be a huge organizational failure if Devers isn't extended before he hits FA. I'm not overly worried about it. They should get it done.
I'm not going to go so far as to call it a failure if it doesn't happen because an extension requires both sides to agree. If they offer the moon and Devers still wants to go to free agency, that's not an organizational failure.
 

Jimbodandy

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Not to call you out, your posts are great but I feel like I am seeing a lot of posts on this board lately where people accidentally type the opposite of what they mean, and it's confusing.
It isn't much less confusing after being fixed either.

Being above the CBT isn't a goal. Not having the CBT as a barrier is a goal, sure. But being above it because shiny objects is not a goal, nor should Bloom pursue such a strategy.

Everyone said the same thing (cheap!) about Belichick for like 15 years, until he went out and signed half the world last offseason. Now we're complaining in BBtL that there wasn't any money left for JC Jackson et al.

"Bloom hasn't spent big yet" does not equal "Bloom won't spend big", no matter how hard people moan about guys signing elsewhere.
 

chrisfont9

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There's only two things I hate in this world: people who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch.
I will suggest that the good people of the Netherlands do not have to tolerate Derek Holland being held up as representative of them. It turns out there are three Derek Hollands on Wikipedia, the American baseball player, an English right wing crank, and an Irish rower. Also I guess I'm willing to believe that this Derek Holland, however Dutch he may or may not be, doesn't so much dislike Asian people but maybe watches too much South Park? Anyway, his arm probably won't stay attached long enough for him to offend either Bogaerts or Sawamura in person.
 

BigSoxFan

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I'm not going to go so far as to call it a failure if it doesn't happen because an extension requires both sides to agree. If they offer the moon and Devers still wants to go to free agency, that's not an organizational failure.
Kind of conditionally disagree. If offering the moon to your homegrown guy doesn't get it done, then there is a decent chance something organizationally was the reason or a contributing factor unless it was "hey, I want to live in warm weather" or something.
 

Auger34

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Short of Correa signing here, is there any realistic way that the Sox don’t start the season as the clear 4th best team in the AL East?
 

nvalvo

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Let's also remember that before the Dodgers were acquiring big-ticket superstars like Mookie and Bauer (yuck.) and Freeman, they were making their own stars out of retreads like Justin Turner, failed Met, Chris Taylor, failed Mariner, and Kiké Hernandez, failed Marlin.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Short of Correa signing here, is there any realistic way that the Sox don’t start the season as the clear 4th best team in the AL East?
They barely finished ahead of the 4th best team last year. 4th best in this division isn't necessary the negative that it would seem, especially with three wildcard spots up for grabs.
 

The Filthy One

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Let's also remember that before the Dodgers were acquiring big-ticket superstars like Mookie and Bauer (yuck.) and Freeman, they were making their own stars out of retreads like Justin Turner, failed Met, Chris Taylor, failed Mariner, and Kiké Hernandez, failed Marlin.
You can add Max Muncy to that list, as well. This is what Bloom seems to be trying here, as well. I'm down for it (though I do hope they extend Devers).
 

Max Power

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Short of Correa signing here, is there any realistic way that the Sox don’t start the season as the clear 4th best team in the AL East?
I don't see a lot to distinguish the Rays, Yankees, and Red Sox. The Blue Jays are the clear best team in the division right now.
 

nvalvo

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They barely finished ahead of the 4th best team last year. 4th best in this division isn't necessary the negative that it would seem, especially with three wildcard spots up for grabs.
The fourth team in this division will likely be the fifth or sixth best team in the AL.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Current fangraphs projections, acknowledging that the off-season is not complete, have the Sox at 85 wins. Toronto (93), Yankees (91), Astros (89), White Sox (87), and Rays (87) are ahead of the Sox, with Angels (84) right behind, and everyone else below .500. Feels about right.
 

OCD SS

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Short term could also mean open to a pillow deal. Which is what I suspect Bloom wants. 1/25 to play 2B for a year.
Remember why Kluber didn’t sign with the Sox last year? They had the option year tacked on that would’ve extended their control into this year. I would imagine Chaim is looking to leverage his control in any offers, and that’s being undercut by just how hot the market is now…