Red Sox in season discussion

Red(s)HawksFan

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On a more serious note, just want to say how happy I am for Jeter Downs. No idea where things go from here, but I have a significant soft spot for prospects who battle adversity and find a way to keep bobbing up above the surface. It’s why it’s so hard for me to give up on Bobby D. Downs obviously has tons of natural talent and I suspect that these past couple of years are the first time he’s experienced any kind of prolonged failure in his career. To keep battling and find a way—even if it proves unsustainable over the long run—is something I find quite admirable. And he’s still fairly young, so who knows, maybe he can unlock something that leads to sustained success going forward.
I really enjoy stories like the day he had yesterday. It's the kind of thing he can tell his grandkids about even if he never does anything else meaningful in his baseball career. Can't really beat waking up in Worcester expecting to play a minor league game as usual only to end the day getting your first big league hit followed by diving across home plate to score the winning run at Fenway Park against the Yankees.
 

chrisfont9

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On a more serious note, just want to say how happy I am for Jeter Downs. No idea where things go from here, but I have a significant soft spot for prospects who battle adversity and find a way to keep bobbing up above the surface. It’s why it’s so hard for me to give up on Bobby D. Downs obviously has tons of natural talent and I suspect that these past couple of years are the first time he’s experienced any kind of prolonged failure in his career. To keep battling and find a way—even if it proves unsustainable over the long run—is something I find quite admirable. And he’s still fairly young, so who knows, maybe he can unlock something that leads to sustained success going forward.
Me too! Seems like a nice, thoughtful kid (as much as you can tell from a few interviews). There's an excellent piece in the Globe where, among other things, Geddy really breaks down the minutiae of his swing and how his technique is maybe coming around.
 

Cesar Crespo

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He raked at AAA (SSS) in the short time since his 1-game debut.
Sorta, first 5 games after the debut, he didn't do much. Then he put up a Ruthian 1.570 OPS in 39 PA over his last 9.

Posted some of this in the minors thread, but there was a lot of pining for Ryan Fitzgerald earlier this year. Downs is now outperforming him. His last 9 games makes his AAA season decent.

Ryan Fitzgerald for the year: .246/.316/.454 in 330 PA, 25bb/79k, 31 xbh, 13 HR, 3sb/4cs.
Start to end of May: .291/.349/.564 in 193 PA, 13bb/51k, 23 xbh, 10 HR, 1sb/3cs
since June 1st: .182/.270/.298 in 139 PA. , 12bb/28k. 8 xbh/3 HR, 2b/1cs

Jeter Downs for the year at AAA: .217/.339/.472 in 280 PA. 34bb/79k, 27 xbh, 16 HR. 18sb/4c.
Jeter Downs up until his last 9 games: .182/.273/.384 in 241 PA, 30bb/73k, 18 xbh/11 HR, 12sb/4cs
Jeter Downs last 9 games at AAA: ..438/.539/1.031 in 39 PA, 4bb/6k, 4 doubles, 5 HR, 6sb/0cs

Fitzerald's BAbip for the year is .298. Downs is at .248. On 6/19, it was .209. He has put the ball in play 141 times out of 280 possible chances. He ended up with 35 hits. With average BAbip luck (.300), he's slashing .247.357/.502.
 

nvalvo

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Absolutely! He's not yet 24, he has great numbers in the low minors and has shown flashes in the high minors, he lost a year of development to factors beyond his control. I think if he had been a Sox draftee or acquired otherwise than in an extremely controversial trade, people would have a more measured view of his chances. He has a ton of pop (.255 ISO in AAA) and can apparently play a pretty good shortstop. He's clearly struggled adjusting to AAA pitching, but if this swing change helps him make a bit more contact, he's a very exciting prospect.

In that 39 PA stretch that CC highlighted above, Downs literally cut his K rate in half. That's bonkers, and a pretty quick-stabilizing stat. We'll have to see if it's persistent against counter-adjustments by the league.
 

chawson

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Worth noting that his shortstop defense has improved considerably too, according to the Sox Prospects guys. He was considered a likely second baseman until last year, but now grades as an average or slightly better defensive shortstop. That’s significant.
 

Cesar Crespo

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In that 39 PA stretch that CC highlighted above, Downs literally cut his K rate in half. That's bonkers, and a pretty quick-stabilizing stat. We'll have to see if it's persistent against counter-adjustments by the league.
Yeah, and the 19 PA before that, 5bb/4k. Last 58 PA (all AAA, so no last night's game): 9bb/10k, 17.2% K rate. While 58 PA is a small sample size, it's 20.8% of his total sample size this year. Lowered his K rate from 31.8% to 28.2% for the year.


Last year's AAA numbers: .142 ISO, .249 BAbip, 9.4% BB%, 32.3% K%. 46.2% 3TO% (218 balls in play, 187 3TO) .191/.272/.333, 18sb/3cs, 23xbh/14 HRs, 119 TB, 38bb/131k, 405 PA.
This year's AAA numbers: .255 ISO, .248 BAbip, 12.1% BB, 28.2% K%. 49.6% 3TO% (141 balls in play, 130 3TO) .217/.339/.472, 18sb/4cs, 27 xbh/16 HRs, 111 TB, 34bb/79k, 280 PA.
3TO=3 True Outcomes+HBP

+.113 ISO, +2.7% BB%, -4.1% K%, +3.4% 3TO% (despite a drop in Ks). Only 8 less TB and 4 less BB despite 125 less PA. Same amount of SB, at a slightly worse %.

There were some signs of improvement even before the streak... he was still bad though. Just not as bad as last year.
 

Cesar Crespo

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If X leaves, will Downs be ready next year? Or too soon?
He'll be 24 this month and a 3rd year in AAA won't do him any good. I doubt very much he'd be X's replacement but if he finishes the year strong, he could get plenty of AB rotating between the OF and IF. If he did replace X, it would be at 2b while Story slides over to SS.

With him, it's really improving one area of his game (hitting for contact) to make use of the rest of his skill set.
 

dhappy42

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He'll be 24 this month and a 3rd year in AAA won't do him any good. I doubt very much he'd be X's replacement but if he finishes the year strong, he could get plenty of AB rotating between the OF and IF. If he did replace X, it would be at 2b while Story slides over to SS.

With him, it's really improving one area of his game (hitting for contact) to make use of the rest of his skill set.
A year younger than Devers. I assume if X leaves (and I think he will) Story moves to SS and the Sox find a second baseman. Downs?
 

Cesar Crespo

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A year younger than Devers. I assume if X leaves (and I think he will) Story moves to SS and the Sox find a second baseman. Downs?
It's only "too early" in the sense that it's a super small sample size of success and whether any of the changes will stick long term. Before that 9 game streak, he was an afterthought having an absolutely dreadful season. He fell to 21st on soxprospects.com.

I would guess no, he will not be a regular. At least not to start the season. Or ever, really. I'd guess he ends up in a UI/OF role at best. But he has such a huge range of outcomes based on how much contact he makes. Really high ceiling, really low floor.
 

Ganthem

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What am I missing. The dude put up poor numbers at triple A and got one single yesterday and he is being mentioned as a Bogey replacement?
 

dhappy42

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What am I missing. The dude put up poor numbers at triple A and got one single yesterday and he is being mentioned as a Bogey replacement?
Not an X replacement as in “who replaces X’s productivity,” but a replacement as in who plays 2B next year if X departs and Story slides over to SS. Arroyo?
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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What am I missing. The dude put up poor numbers at triple A and got one single yesterday and he is being mentioned as a Bogey replacement?
Nothing wrong with discussing whether or not he can be an option next year at 2B/SS considering he's young, he's on the 40-man, and he plays the right position(s). I don't think anyone is advocating for anything yet.
 

BringBackMo

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What am I missing. The dude put up poor numbers at triple A and got one single yesterday and he is being mentioned as a Bogey replacement?
Be easy, Sunshine. Just a few people who like the Red Sox discussing a prospect we’re rooting for. Nothing to troll here.
 

burstnbloom

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What am I missing. The dude put up poor numbers at triple A and got one single yesterday and he is being mentioned as a Bogey replacement?
To the bolded, it appears to be the entire discussion. Everything points to Downs being a good major league player EXCEPT a fatally flawed hit tool. his contact rates have been well below passable in AAA with the exception of a small sample at the end of last year, until a couple of weeks ago when he ditched the leg kick. posters are trying to have a reasonable discussion about what he could be if that improvement were real this time. That's the entire discussion for the past page of this thread.
 
So much is going to depend on what he does for the rest of the year, of course. It's possible he could be competing for a job next year. We certainly can't count on it now. I doubt he would take over at second base and slide Story over. Story taking over at SS has been discussed quite a bit, and it looks like there are questions about Story's arm strength. It also looks like Story has been clear about his desire to focus on 2B. If Story were an option at SS we'd be seeing him there in some games this year.

The fact that we've seen Arroyo come in and spell X at SS while Story remains at 2B instead of having Arroyo slot in at 2B and slide Story over to SS is a pretty clear indication that SS isn't an option for Story.
 

dhappy42

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So much is going to depend on what he does for the rest of the year, of course. It's possible he could be competing for a job next year. We certainly can't count on it now. I doubt he would take over at second base and slide Story over. Story taking over at SS has been discussed quite a bit, and it looks like there are questions about Story's arm strength. It also looks like Story has been clear about his desire to focus on 2B. If Story were an option at SS we'd be seeing him there in some games this year.

The fact that we've seen Arroyo come in and spell X at SS while Story remains at 2B instead of having Arroyo slot in at 2B and slide Story over to SS is a pretty clear indication that SS isn't an option for Story.
I’m not sure Arroyo playing SS for 2 games while Story stays at 2B is necessarily an indication that Story’s no longer a good SS. As much as it is an attempt to minimize position shuffling.
 

joe dokes

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So much is going to depend on what he does for the rest of the year, of course. It's possible he could be competing for a job next year. We certainly can't count on it now. I doubt he would take over at second base and slide Story over. Story taking over at SS has been discussed quite a bit, and it looks like there are questions about Story's arm strength. It also looks like Story has been clear about his desire to focus on 2B. If Story were an option at SS we'd be seeing him there in some games this year.

The fact that we've seen Arroyo come in and spell X at SS while Story remains at 2B instead of having Arroyo slot in at 2B and slide Story over to SS is a pretty clear indication that SS isn't an option for Story.
Im not sure if anyone posted this somewhere from todays Glob, but Gedman points to some changes ("best shape of his life" caveat)::


But after Downs was sent back to Worcester, he struck those around him as a different person, both on and off the field. For some players, the initial call to the big leagues followed by a return to the minors can serve as one of the most significant player development moments of their careers — an eye-opening opportunity to recalibrate and to sharpen an approach to the game.
In the case of Downs, those with Worcester had little question that the three-day stint in the big leagues had an impact.

“It calmed him down,” said Gedman. “He just seemed like he matured in a short period of time. I’m not saying completely matured. I’m just saying there was a renewed enthusiasm. He got a chance to get there. And when you get there, it does different things to different people. It seemed like it motivated him, but also helped calm him down.”

Downs sometimes tinkers with his batting stance, shifting between a pronounced leg lift intended to help him keep his weight back before driving the ball and a more understated stride into his swing in which his hands do more of the work. After returning from his big league stint, Downs employed more of the latter to startling effect.

In the nine games prior to Saturday, he hit .438 with a .539 OBP, 1.031 slugging mark, and 1.570 OPS. He had five homers and nine extra-base hits along with six steals and nearly as many walks (4) as strikeouts (6).
“Through doing less [with his swing], he’s creating more,” said Gedman. “He’s got really good power but he’s always trying to create power. He’s playing more like an athlete now, playing more his size [5 feet 11 inches, 195 pounds], rather than trying to create more. I think it’s allowed him to be on time for more pitches and allowed him to have better balance in his swing.”

Downs’s ability to make contact with Peralta’s changeup — staying back instead of swinging way out in front of it — served as a testament to that altered approach.
 

BringBackMo

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So the Sox are halfway through the DREADED 14 STRAIGHT GAMES AGAINST THE YANKEES AND JAYS. They’ve gone 3-4 despite going without a large number of injured players, are second in the AL East, are in the top wild card spot, and have the third best record in the AL. I sure hope they do well over the next seven games so they don’t have to become sellers at the trade deadline.
 

CR67dream

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I sure hope they do well over the next seven games so they don’t have to become sellers at the trade deadline.
Good God, not meant at all just for you, BBM, but IMO focusing on shit like this on a happy night like this is every bit as bad for the board, if not worse, than being overly negative when things look bad. Call out people directly when needed, and let people defend themselves, but several people need to knock off generalized, condescending, passive aggressive shit like this. It is not helping to make the place better any more than the over the top complaining is.

In fact, for those such as myself who just want to enjoy the ride and not judge anyone's character due to how they follow/root for the team, it's a real fucking drag.

People on both ends of this bipolar clusterfuck need to stop going after each other and find a way to coexist, because right now the board is suffering for it all.
 

BringBackMo

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Good God, not meant at all just for you, BBM, but IMO focusing on shit like this on a happy night like this is every bit as bad for the board, if not worse, than being overly negative when things look bad. Call out people directly when needed, and let people defend themselves, but several people need to knock off generalized, condescending, passive aggressive shit like this. It is not helping to make the place better any more than the over the top complaining is.

In fact, for those such as myself who just want to enjoy the ride and not judge anyone's character due to how they follow/root for the team, it's a real fucking drag.

People on both ends of this bipolar clusterfuck need to stop going after each other and find a way to coexist, because right now the board is suffering for it all.
This is an incredibly bad take and a worse post. You’re a mod. Your words therefore carry triple the impact, plus the implied threat, of any other poster’s. I have never, in the entirety of my time here, addressed another poster using these kinds of words. I’m not sure what motivated your reaction but I have my theories. There is plenty else going on in my life than participating in the conversations around here so I’ll go spend a few days concentrating on those activities. Lastly, I’ll just say that it’s a laughable conclusion that I, and apparently the others like me, are the ones who don’t want to enjoy the ride, and are making this place a real fucking drag.
 

mfried

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It seems that Sawamura has been a very solid low leverage bullpen guy. His conventional stats are good this year, and peripherals middle of the pack on the team. Not sure why he never gets any respect ....
Thanks for this point. Sawamura can have great stuff - 4-seamer and splitter. His control (strikes vs. balls) and command (right part of zone) are unpredictable, but when they’re on he can be solid or better. I think he is totally under-rated.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Another tough 7 game road stretch. I REALLY want to see the Sox take 3 of 4 in Tampa and 2 of 3 in Yankee Stadium but I'll happily settle for a 4-3 or even 3-4 stretch, realistically speaking. The two recent victories against the MFY's had to provide some spark, and good to see JDM lift one out. Hopefully Xander can get untangled. I'd prefer to keep resting Devers and even have him skip the AS Break to get whatever ails him straightened out.
Coming back after this trip we should have Sale back to at least 5 innings, Whitlock back. Possibly Eovaldi and even a deal for a corner OF. I don't think the next stretch is "important" to their playoff chances (unless they unlikely piss out a 7 game losing streak... even then they'd still be in it) but it's important in the stretch leading up to the important stretch with the roster likely to take the form that will end up closing out the season. I'm feeling pretty good right now... I even shook off whatever (apparently not Covid) that hit me like a ton of bricks over the weekend!
 

BaseballJones

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I was super bummed after the first two games of the Yankee series this weekend. But suddenly I look at the wild card standings (the division is long gone so it's immaterial at this point) this morning, and I see:

Boston +2.5
Tampa +1.0
Toronto - -
Seattle - -
Baltimore -2.0
Cleveland -2.0
Chicago -2.5

First off, how about those Orioles? They are at 43-44 and are one win away from the ENTIRE American League East being at .500 or above, and yet NOT being just a glut of mediocre teams, since, you know, the Yankees are still on a pace to win 115 games. It is, right now, the best division I've ever seen. The run differential of the AL East teams and where those rank in the league:

NY +177 (1st)
Bos +51 (3rd)
TB +18 (6th)
Tor +9 (8th)
Bal -14 (10th)

So the 5th place team in the division has the 10th best record and run differential in the entire league. They'd be second in the AL Central and third in the AL West right now.

But second, the Sox are in a good spot right now. Third best record and third best run differential in the league. Currently 2.5 games up in the WC standings, and currently would have home field advantage in the WC series. Given how the Yankees have played, this is as good as we can hope for, really.
 

bosockboy

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90 win pace first half with massive pitching injuries and an 11-20 start is as good a result as you could hope for. It’s oddly nice not worrying about the division. Just get healthy, fill holes and keep getting better.
 

jtn46

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Very encouraging to have them score 5, 5, 6 and 11 against what has been the best pitching staff in baseball to this point and 2 of those games were without our best offensive player. If the Sox pitching staff were more healthy winning the series and even a 4-game sweep could have been in the cards.

The Yankees in a short playoff series against the Red Sox have to be particularly concerned about how consistently our lineup beats up on Cole.
 

Ganthem

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The fact they went 3-4 with a decimated rotation is a really good sign. Thus far, knock on wood, they are playing well enough in this stretch to be buyers at the deadline. If they can get mostly healthy they are going to be a juggernaut.
 

Heating up in the bullpen

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Very encouraging to have them score 5, 5, 6 and 11 against what has been the best pitching staff in baseball to this point and 2 of those games were without our best offensive player.
After that listless Rays series I was worried the Sox had shrunk back to the April-May team. But then even in losing the first two to the MFY they took some punches but battled in losing efforts. And in the second two, took more punches, battled and came out on top. They showed a lot of heart in these games, a lot of team togetherness. These are the kinds of wins that can really spark a team. I'm optimistic -- again.
 

BaseballJones

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After that listless Rays series I was worried the Sox had shrunk back to the April-May team. But then even in losing the first two to the MFY they took some punches but battled in losing efforts. And in the second two, took more punches, battled and came out on top. They showed a lot of heart in these games, a lot of team togetherness. These are the kinds of wins that can really spark a team. I'm optimistic -- again.
Coming back from a 6-2 deficit was pretty awesome. Definitely did not quit.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Coming back from a 6-2 deficit was pretty awesome. Definitely did not quit.
What so often gets overlooked in a game like that is that the bullpen had to hold the Yankees down and allow for the offense to come to life and get the lead, and they did. The bullpen gets all kinds of negative attention when they blow a lead, but rarely get the credit when they give the offense a chance to mount a come back. They were doing this a bunch early in the season but the offense was too anemic to help out. Glad to see them rewarded for their efforts for once.
 

CR67dream

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You were chiding the gloom and doomers, no? That's certainly the way I took it, as evidenced by your ALL CAPS phrasing. Fun win last night. Carry on.
He was, and as I said clearly, he's not the only one who has been doing so. It needs to stop. As I also said very clearly, people are always more than welcome to attack individual posts (but not posters), negative or otherwise, and allow whomever posted them a chance to defend what they posted. That leaves room for debate and a back and forth, and it's what this place was built on.

When people complain about or criticize the team, they are not criticizing or personally attacking other posters. The players, manager, and front office are public figures who (most of whom) make obscene money and that kind of criticism comes with the territory. They'll be just fine. I mean obviously it's not an unmitigated disaster in Sox Land right now, but it ain't all unicorns and show ponies either. As much as I love the Sox, there is plenty to criticize, just as there is plenty to praise. I wish more people held this view and posted accordingly.

When people complain about the complainers in a passive aggressive way that doesn't address a particular post, it's just noise for the sake of noise, and doing it that way doesn't allow for any debate with the undefined people that they disagree with. It adds nothing of value. If someone thinks a particular post deserves scorn, and addresses it directly, that's a different story, make the poster defend it and be ready to defend your own take. Simple as that.

I really tried to be diplomatic in my original response, as the board is as bipolar right now as I've ever seen it in my 21 years here, which sucks, and there's more than one reason for that. I'm not going after any one group or individual, in fact I'm not going after anyone, it's nothing personal. We can all always be better. The bottom line is that too many otherwise decent discussions are getting derailed with worthless sniping from multiple directions, and it needs to stop.

Anyway, folks can feel about me what they will, and question my motives, I don't care, I have pretty thick skin. If anyone thinks this needs to be discussed further, I have an inbox.

Back to baseball....
 
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Petagine in a Bottle

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What so often gets overlooked in a game like that is that the bullpen had to hold the Yankees down and allow for the offense to come to life and get the lead, and they did. The bullpen gets all kinds of negative attention when they blow a lead, but rarely get the credit when they give the offense a chance to mount a come back. They were doing this a bunch early in the season but the offense was too anemic to help out. Glad to see them rewarded for their efforts for once.
Totally- a huge outing by Kaleb Ort, thrown right into the fire, stopped the bleeding, and got a lot of tough hitters out; and the oft-maligned Sawamura, who threw two clean innings.
 

donutogre

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I'm feeling really good about the team after these last two wins. I think they still have a lot of flaws that will keep them from going too far in the playoffs, including injuries, an unbalanced lineup with too many weak spots, potentially vulnerable starting pitching, and an up-and-down bullpen. But, you really have to like seeing the fight in those last two games, on a four-gaming losing streak without Devers. This team felt fundamentally broken in April, but they feel a lot more like last season's team since then. Definitely not perfect, but good enough to be entertaining this summer and maybe make a little noise in the fall. I will happily take that.
 

chrisfont9

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I was super bummed after the first two games of the Yankee series this weekend. But suddenly I look at the wild card standings (the division is long gone so it's immaterial at this point) this morning, and I see:

Boston +2.5
Tampa +1.0
Toronto - -
Seattle - -
Baltimore -2.0
Cleveland -2.0
Chicago -2.5

First off, how about those Orioles? They are at 43-44 and are one win away from the ENTIRE American League East being at .500 or above, and yet NOT being just a glut of mediocre teams, since, you know, the Yankees are still on a pace to win 115 games. It is, right now, the best division I've ever seen. The run differential of the AL East teams and where those rank in the league:

NY +177 (1st)
Bos +51 (3rd)
TB +18 (6th)
Tor +9 (8th)
Bal -14 (10th)

So the 5th place team in the division has the 10th best record and run differential in the entire league. They'd be second in the AL Central and third in the AL West right now.

But second, the Sox are in a good spot right now. Third best record and third best run differential in the league. Currently 2.5 games up in the WC standings, and currently would have home field advantage in the WC series. Given how the Yankees have played, this is as good as we can hope for, really.
Mariners have caught fire and are even beating some good teams. They are so young that their turnaround suggests they have found something. Which was expected before the season but took a while to gel.
 

chrisfont9

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I'm feeling really good about the team after these last two wins. I think they still have a lot of flaws that will keep them from going too far in the playoffs, including injuries, an unbalanced lineup with too many weak spots, potentially vulnerable starting pitching, and an up-and-down bullpen. But, you really have to like seeing the fight in those last two games, on a four-gaming losing streak without Devers. This team felt fundamentally broken in April, but they feel a lot more like last season's team since then. Definitely not perfect, but good enough to be entertaining this summer and maybe make a little noise in the fall. I will happily take that.
Scoring the last nine runs makes it seem like maybe it's the Yankees who quit on the series, when they got fed up with being continually bothered by this largely AAA lineup. Cora is so vastly superior to Boone.
 

dhappy42

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Stanton got hosed by the ump on those three strikes — low, low and inside — from Sawamura last night, but dude… you gotta adjust. Those low pitches were called strikes most of the night. I just rewatched them on TikTok and Vaz did a great job framing them. Boone getting tossed was a nice bonus.
 

chrisfont9

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Stanton got hosed by the ump on those three strikes — low, low and inside — from Sawamura last night, but dude… you gotta adjust. Those low pitches were called strikes most of the night. I just rewatched them on TikTok and Vaz did a great job framing them. Boone getting tossed was a nice bonus.
Gibson just had a giant plate. And can you blame him? These Sunday games start late, plus Sox-Yanks averages like 3:45. Gotta move things along.

View: https://twitter.com/UmpScorecards/status/1546504090259263489/photo/1
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Interesting that Stanton’s K was not considered “impactful.”
Making the third out in the seventh inning with no one on base isn't all that statistically significant. I know Stanton is a big threat to go deep at any time, but run expectancy doesn't take into account who's at the plate, just the situation in which the at bat is taking place.
 

chrisfont9

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Making the third out in the seventh inning with no one on base isn't all that statistically significant. I know Stanton is a big threat to go deep at any time, but run expectancy doesn't take into account who's at the plate, just the situation in which the at bat is taking place.
Looks like it's purely an expression of run expectancy, which doesn't always match up with subjective impressions but is a reasonable way to proceed.
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dhappy42

Straw Man
Oct 27, 2013
15,725
Michigan
Making the third out in the seventh inning with no one on base isn't all that statistically significant. I know Stanton is a big threat to go deep at any time, but run expectancy doesn't take into account who's at the plate, just the situation in which the at bat is taking place.
That makes sense. It “seemed” impactful to me at the time.
94MPH splitters are almost as rare as knuckleballs. Maybe Gibson was just fooled the the movement on them.
That too. And as I mentioned, Vazquez did a good job framing those pitches.