Red Sox Rumors - Just Kidding

nighthob

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I think it might be just a little early to be writing off Yorke after one injury plagued season that was, in essence, his second pro season. No matter how good a player looks in low A, they’re always lottery tickets until they can do it in AA and above. This is the big reason that Boston’s trade options are limited, because no matter how much upside their guys have, it’s all lottery tickets requiring them to overpay for everything.

Now, in another couple of years when Bloom’s players are in Portland and Worcester it will be another story.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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If I were Chaim, Houck and Rafaela are the pieces I'd be most willing to package in a trade for a cost-controllable player like Murphy or Reynolds. Houck's posted excellent results in albeit limited innings, and it's still early enough that a team like OAK could really view him as a starter. With Rafaela, you have the ability to capitalize on a consensus top 100 prospect at potentially his maximum value. Not saying it's the exact same situation or that they are better/worse prospects, but Duran and Yorke illustrate the downside of hoarding every breakout guy. I get that Rafaela potentially fills a position of need as early as 2024, but if you can fill a similar position of need in the lineup or rotation that's under contract for 2 to 3 years without trading Casas/Bello/Mayer that's something to really consider.
I don’t think Duran and Yorke are in the same boat.
Personally I’m pretty bullish on Cedanne. Not Mookie level ceiling but I think where we expected Benintendi to be
 

nighthob

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I don’t think Duran and Yorke are in the same boat.
Personally I’m pretty bullish on Cedanne. Not Mookie level ceiling but I think where we expected Benintendi to be
Yeah, practically speaking, if the apex of Yorke’s value was his first season in low A then he never had any and it’s a waste of time to complain that he was “hoarded”. I’m also not really convinced that Duran ever had any real value. As a prospect he always had a plethora of questions surrounding him and unless Boston traded him right in the middle of that one 6-8 game stretch where he looked like a ML player then there wasn’t much that they could do. Until he proves that he can play in the big leagues his value is “throw-in”.
 

chrisfont9

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I think it might be just a little early to be writing off Yorke after one injury plagued season that was, in essence, his second pro season. No matter how good a player looks in low A, they’re always lottery tickets until they can do it in AA and above. This is the big reason that Boston’s trade options are limited, because no matter how much upside their guys have, it’s all lottery tickets requiring them to overpay for everything.

Now, in another couple of years when Bloom’s players are in Portland and Worcester it will be another story.
Right, this jibes with what the team has said about spending. It's a little early to expect a lot of support from within the org, probably a year too early, but since they have some room under the tax they are willing to jump ahead a year, start investing at the ML level, and hope that the high minors look good before long.
 

Dewey'sCannon

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You'd have to think that Tanner Houck is likely to get traded, right? He's between roles, and his personal conduct put the team in a lurch last season. Not quite Clevinger levels of effing over his teammates, but certainly not the kind of team-first attitude and dedication one would like to see.

Dealing him to a team that sees him as a starter makes a ton of sense, and probably could bring back a pretty interesting return.



I think I said my top offer would be 6/$180m, but 8/$200m doesn't really seem much more expensive to me. Lower AAV, longer deal, similar money. So maybe I'm talking myself into 8/$200.
If the number is 180, then you're right that it would probably be for 6 years. But if it's 200, then it's probably for 7 years, not 8. 8 years would probably be 210-225.
 

ehaz

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I think it might be just a little early to be writing off Yorke after one injury plagued season that was, in essence, his second pro season. No matter how good a player looks in low A, they’re always lottery tickets until they can do it in AA and above. This is the big reason that Boston’s trade options are limited, because no matter how much upside their guys have, it’s all lottery tickets requiring them to overpay for everything.

Now, in another couple of years when Bloom’s players are in Portland and Worcester it will be another story.
Agreed that it's too early to write off Yorke, but Boston's trade options aren't that limited. Three of the team's best prospects (Casas, Bello, Rafaela) have shown they can do it in AA and above. The problem is more that you need to keep Casas and Bello because they can fill key long-term needs right now at minimum cost and the team's situation isn't like it was in 2017 when they were conceivably just a Chris Sale away from winning it all. Mayer is different because he's still in the lower-minors, but it's a similar situation. He has the pedigree to headline a blockbuster trade, but you only consider moving him if you're already a playoff team and the trade vaults you into title contention.

Rafaela is a bit in the middle. He potentially fills a long-term need in CF, but is further away than Casas and Bello. If you can leverage Rafaela into a core addition like Murphy or Reynolds that's at a similar age to Xander/Raffy/Story/Verdugo with Casas/Bello contributing to that core, you're a few smart signings away to a team with a 3-4 year window for contention.

I don’t think Duran and Yorke are in the same boat.
Personally I’m pretty bullish on Cedanne. Not Mookie level ceiling but I think where we expected Benintendi to be
Oh I agree that they're not quite in the same boat. My point was more that he's the best/most realistic trade chip and due to his recent breakout, the likeliest to have some pretty divergent opinions across organizations over his value. I like Rafaela a lot as a super athletic multi-position defender but I think of him as more of a Kike Hernandez type than a Benintendi or Mookie-lite.
 

Dewey'sCannon

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Scrolling through Bleacher Report app on my phone and saw the following posted - a tweet from "ITM Podcast"

"Source: Aaron Judge now considering 12-year deal with Red Sox. More details to come."

Don't know about the veracity of this source, but it's a rumor.

Correction: tweet says "Arson Judge" - don't know if that means it's a joke, or what.
 
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DJnVa

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Scrolling through Bleacher Report app on my phone and saw the following posted - a tweet from "ITM Podcast"

"Source: Aaron Judge now considering 12-year deal with Red Sox. More details to come."

Don't know about the veracity of this source, but it's a rumor.
ITM Podcast is a Sox podcast that's part of the Sports Illustrated Media Group. I don't see a show since 12/1 though.

Steve Perrault and Joey Copponi host the ITM Podcast. The show is the newest addition to the Sports Illustrated Media Group via Inside The Red Sox, and will provide listeners with the latest Red Sox news while delivering it in a highly entertaining manner.
 

iddoc

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Exactly. Boras will do whatever he can extract the most money for his client. Not even a crappy agent would ever say publicly, "we will give x team a chance to match", even if the player had directed them to do this. That would scare away offers, and drive down the price for the client who wants to stay at home. It's also in Boras/Xander's interest to tell everyone they are still engaged w/ Boston, even if they think Boston doesn't have the best offer, again to simply drive up interest in the player and the price.

It's the one time of year when players and agents get to scare teams/fanbases with the possibility of leaving, and this thread is an example of the kind of hand wringing and anxiety this creates.
Perhaps Boras was implying that he would not disclose the details of an attractive offer from another team, but would say “make your last best offer,” with the hope that the Red Sox would exceed the one in hand by a significant margin; not just match or barely top it. Rather like a bidding war for a house.
 

Dewey'sCannon

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Ah. I was responding only to post, not the tweet. Post said "Aaron".
Yeah, I edited and corrected my original post - didn't have my glasses on when I first read it. My bad. Although on twitter, someone did note that B-R lists "Arson Judge" as one of his nicknames. Probably a joke, but got picked up by Bleacher Report.
 

Van Everyman

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“I don’t know their strategy. I just know we continue to talk and have dialogue and continue the process with them,” Boras said during a 30-minute media session. “The Red Sox, they kind of have four-star ownership. These guys have proven over time that they win and they pursue winning . . . I think everyone around them understands the Sox without ‘X’ are So-So.”
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/12/06/sports/xander-bogaerts-red-sox/
 

nighthob

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Agreed that it's too early to write off Yorke, but Boston's trade options aren't that limited. Three of the team's best prospects (Casas, Bello, Rafaela) have shown they can do it in AA and above. The problem is more that you need to keep Casas and Bello because they can fill key long-term needs right now at minimum cost and the team's situation isn't like it was in 2017 when they were conceivably just a Chris Sale away from winning it all. Mayer is different because he's still in the lower-minors, but it's a similar situation. He has the pedigree to headline a blockbuster trade, but you only consider moving him if you're already a playoff team and the trade vaults you into title contention.
Mayer can headline a blockbuster trade, but due to being a lottery ticket still it would require another 2-3 prime assets to work. And then Boston’s back where they started. My point is that it’s not “hoarding prospects” to wait until they have actual value. As a low A star Yorke had next to none, and if your feeling is that he’s already hit the apex of his value you’re writing him off.

Rafaela is a bit in the middle. He potentially fills a long-term need in CF, but is further away than Casas and Bello. If you can leverage Rafaela into a core addition like Murphy or Reynolds that's at a similar age to Xander/Raffy/Story/Verdugo with Casas/Bello contributing to that core, you're a few smart signings away to a team with a 3-4 year window for contention.
I’m more hesitant on Reynolds after last year. His offensive and defensive trends worry me. And Boston’s a little more than a Bryan Reynolds away at the moment.

To be brutally frank I think that Rafaela is the player that Verdugo fans fantasize that he is. All told I’d rather have Rafaela than Verdugo since CR brings elite defense at premium positions rather than mediocre to poor defense down the defensive spectrum. If Verdugo could mash I’d overlook the D, but he can’t. He’s an end of the order hitter.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Unbelievable, another guy the Sox were in on goes elsewhere. When will the Sox flex their financial muscle? Thought this off-season was going to be different.
 

bsj

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Unbelievable, another guy the Sox were in on goes elsewhere. When will the Sox flex their financial muscle? Thought this off-season was going to be different.
Never. Every deadline this happens. We sit waiting for Bloom to make the moves needed to make this club better, and does nothing other than pick at the edges.
 

scottyno

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Never. Every deadline this happens. We sit waiting for Bloom to make the moves needed to make this club better, and does nothing other than pick at the edges.
He's only been the GM for 3 deadlines, one of them there was no making the team better and he rightfully sold, and one of them he made a significant addition.

Also not sure the relevance to discussing deadlines on December 6th unless they moved the start of the season up.
 

Dewey'sCannon

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At this point, we don't know whether Haniger chose SF because they made a better offer, or because he preferred them for other reasons (maybe he wanted to stay on the west coast), Folks sometime forget that players get to choose where they sign, and when the offers are close they may not always pick the Red Sox. SF has some financial muscle too. And teams generally don't know what other teams are bidding.

But it's disappointing for sure, especially because he was one of the best options available.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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He's only been the GM for 3 deadlines, one of them there was no making the team better and he rightfully sold, and one of them he made a significant addition.

Also not sure the relevance to discussing deadlines on December 6th unless they moved the start of the season up.
Well, now he’s got a roster with a lot of needs and minimal long-term salary commitments, and free agency isn’t going to get cheaper. He needs to make something happen. Whether that means splurging, swinging trades, or a 2013-style high volume of quality additions (or some combo of the three), there needs to be some real movement here. Waiting on one guy to slip through the cracks again like Story isn’t good enough.

And yes, it is certainly worth letting the offseason play out.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Of course that’s true, but if you’ve identified all these guys as top targets and priorities and aren’t landing any, and in many cases- aren’t coming close to what they are getting, perhaps you need to reassess if you’ve misjudged the market. The Red Sox big advantage this off-season was supposed to be that they were flush with cash, right?
 

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Of course that’s true, but if you’ve identified all these guys as top targets and priorities and aren’t landing any, and in many cases- aren’t coming close to what they are getting, perhaps you need to reassess if you’ve misjudged the market. The Red Sox big advantage this off-season was supposed to be that they were flush with cash, right?
You really think that the Sox are going to tell everyone/us who they've identified as top targets at this point in the off-season? There is literally no benefit from a business or PR perspective in doing so.
 

scottyno

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Of course that’s true, but if you’ve identified all these guys as top targets and priorities and aren’t landing any, and in many cases- aren’t coming close to what they are getting, perhaps you need to reassess if you’ve misjudged the market. The Red Sox big advantage this off-season was supposed to be that they were flush with cash, right?
How do we know they identified any of these guys as top targets? Just because some twitter account said Jose Abreu was the Sox top priority doesn't mean it was true. Haven't most of the big moves the Sox have made over the last few years kind of come out of nowhere? Like I'm pretty sure they weren't linked at all to Story until it was nearly a done deal, if not done already.
 

heavyde050

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At this point, we don't know whether Haniger chose SF because they made a better offer, or because he preferred them for other reasons (maybe he wanted to stay on the west coast), Folks sometime forget that players get to choose where they sign, and when the offers are close they may not always pick the Red Sox. SF has some financial muscle too. And teams generally don't know what other teams are bidding.

But it's disappointing for sure, especially because he was one of the best options available.
He is also from Mountain View. A local kid. He went to high school in San Jose.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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You really think that the Sox are going to tell everyone/us who they've identified as top targets at this point in the off-season? There is literally no benefit from a business or PR perspective in doing so.
No, I don’t think the org is necessarily telling anyone; but they’ve been linked to Eflin, Heaney, Kahnle, Abreu, Haniger, etc. Maybe it’s all a smokescreen and they weren’t really in on any of those guys, who knows. Guess we will see how things look on Opening day; but seems like a lot of good players who would have helped the Sox are off the board; despite the Sox massive financial advantages.
 

soxhop411

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At this point, we don't know whether Haniger chose SF because they made a better offer, or because he preferred them for other reasons (maybe he wanted to stay on the west coast), Folks sometime forget that players get to choose where they sign, and when the offers are close they may not always pick the Red Sox. SF has some financial muscle too. And teams generally don't know what other teams are bidding.

But it's disappointing for sure, especially because he was one of the best options available.
Point @Dewey'sCannon.
Money is not the end all be all for everyone. Some players would take less money to play for their hometown team.
How do we know they identified any of these guys as top targets? Just because some twitter account said Jose Abreu was the Sox top priority doesn't mean it was true. Haven't most of the big moves the Sox have made over the last few years kind of come out of nowhere? Like I'm pretty sure they weren't linked at all to Story until it was nearly a done deal, if not done already.
As well as the JBJ trade.
This FO rarely if ever leaks. And the most “leaks” we hear are like 5 min before the trade or signing happens.
So just how many players are the Bosox going to be reported as interested in, only to see them go elsewhere?

I agree with those who think we need to give Bloom more time and see how things finally shake out, but this is getting ridiculous.
He took less money to play closer to home. What did you want bloom to do? Hold him hostage?
View: https://twitter.com/ChrisCotillo/status/1600310978205609984
 

ehaz

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At this point, we don't know whether Haniger chose SF because they made a better offer, or because he preferred them for other reasons (maybe he wanted to stay on the west coast), Folks sometime forget that players get to choose where they sign, and when the offers are close they may not always pick the Red Sox. SF has some financial muscle too. And teams generally don't know what other teams are bidding.

But it's disappointing for sure, especially because he was one of the best options available.
Haniger is from Mountain View so I’m sure playing for his hometown team plays a part.

Justin Turner is next on my list for “veteran hitters that could rake in Fenway.” Purely as a hitter, I like him more than Haniger, but he’d be more of a JD-ish replacement + back-up at 3B/2B than a RF solution.

Not a lot if FA outfielders left to fill that gaping hole. Hopefully they have trade plans. We’re not in on Judge and I doubt we’re in on Nimmo. After that, you’re looking at Yoshida (just got posted), Benny, and Gallo I guess. Mancini/Duvall are more LF/1B types.
 

DeadlySplitter

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I take these local signings as a negative vote on the Red Sox. If Red Sox roster construction was more advanced, and it was a more obvious path to the World Series, he and or Haniger would’ve signed with the Sox.
That's now how it works.
 

Philip Jeff Frye

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He took less money to play closer to home. What did you want bloom to do? Hold him hostage?
Its not about the particular player or the amount of money or whatever, but it's getting a bid ridiculous that player after player is apparently rejecting us.

Not meant as a criticism of Bloom, just a statement of frustration with the way this off-season is going so far.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Why are teams interested in Lugo as a starter? He’s 33, hasn’t started in the past two years and in his career has a 4.35 era as a starter vs 2.91 as a reliever….what am I missing here? Who among the Sox current starters would he displace?
 

E5 Yaz

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Why are teams interested in Lugo as a starter? He’s 33, hasn’t started in the past two years and in his career has a 4.35 era as a starter vs 2.91 as a reliever….what am I missing here? Who among the Sox current starters would he displace?
Well, since Eovaldi, Wacha and Hill are currently not Sox starters, I guess there's an opening? Honestly, I dunno
 

E5 Yaz

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Yikes. I think I’d rather have Eovaldi at 4/$72 than Walker so I’m scared at what he’ll get now.
Whatever teams had been offering, the price tag just went up