Trying not to overreact because Heyman, but what? They spent most of 2022 with AAAA talent at first base seemingly specifically hoping to get to Casas and now the plan is to spend the FA budget on an aging 1B?
Red Sox Rumors - Just Kidding
- Thread starter jcormjmac
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yah
Agree with all of this... Heyman always has an angle with shit like this....... Especially the bolded.... he would have been nice to have but not at the price HOU signed him at
If history is any guide, the Sox will now go out and sign Rusney Castillo.
Not a lot of other good options out there if they are in fact looking for a right handed 1st basemen to split time with Casas. Maybe they kick the tires on Trey Mancini.
Not a lot of other good options out there if they are in fact looking for a right handed 1st basemen to split time with Casas. Maybe they kick the tires on Trey Mancini.
Mancini would be more intriguing than Abreu for that role. If for no other reason than he has more positional versatility and can play the outfield. He's a bat they'd want in the lineup five out of every six games each week: 2-3 games in the outfield, 1-2 games at 1B, 1-2 games at DH. Seems a more Bloom-like target than Abreu.
And then trade Babe Ruth.
Heyman is Boras's mouthpiece. The more fake "pressure" he puts on the Red Sox by pointing out their "failures," the better Boras thinks it is for his client. The burden is on Heyman to prove otherwise. Failing that, I simply dont find him credible.
Meanwhile, when he's trying to avoid Hell, Heyman will say, "by #1 target," I meant he was their first one, not their most important one."
The Red Sox are no longer a desired destination for free agents. The team no longer gives out bigger contracts than other teams, they don't win more than other teams, and there isn't a chance to play with guys like Pedro, Pedroia, and Papi. Chaim's "I'm in on everything and don't rule out anything" plan for rebuilding can leave him holding the bag when everyone else has "overpaid" to get their targets and there's nobody good left. When you're not a desirable spot, you're going to have to go hard at certain guys and give them more than you would otherwise think reasonable.
I thought the Sox have tons of cash this off-season and that they are going to flex their financial muscle to fill the many holes on the roster- why are we still fixated on finding bargains? At this point they need really good players. I get that the age of Abreu is a concern but what exactly are folks looking at in the available free agents that is appealing? It’s a mediocre class and the Sox have a lot to do. Passing on a guy because he wanted too much cash seems weird to me when so many of the trade scenarios suggested here involve taking on lots of cash for much worse players. (of course, Abreu may have just chosen Houston which seems more than reasonable).
I get the appeal of “positional versatility”, and a guy like Mancini would certainly be an upgrade on Hosmer, and he’d probably take a 1 or 2 year deal. But doesn’t the team need some high ceiling offensive players even if they can’t play four positions?
Sounds like by "#1 target" he means chronologically. $60M for Abreu's age 36-38 seasons does not sound like a good move for Red Sox.
Casas should have every chance to stick as a full-time guy, so I think whoever we'd pair with him would have to be a utility guy who can play elsewhere (like Jordan Luplow) or have a bigger role at DH.
They have to figure out this [SHORTSTOP] and Devers situation first, though. Like Kiké did before signing an extension, everyone is going to be wondering whether the Sox plan to compete in 2023 and beyond.
Mancini just isn't very good. But Rhys Hoskins, Sox DH/1B, has a ring to it. Trade for Hoskins and Kepler and sign Haniger to a 2/$30M deal. Then maybe deal Verdugo if you get a good offer.
Trading for overpaid players is better than signing overpaid players because when you trade for overpaid players they give you stuff along with the overpaid player.
ETA - This sounds unnecessarily snarky lol. I don't think Abreu would be the best use of resources at that rate, though, especially if they would have had to pay a premium over what the Astros paid.
I'm totally with you here, no reason not to spend that kind of money on a 3-year deal for one of only a couple dozen guys projected for a .350+ wOBA. Though I do think it's possible that Abreu simply preferred Houston, which looks like a cushy situation for a guy looking for a ring.
Hoskins would be great, but why would the Phillies trade him? Are they in cost cutting mode? If they put him on the market, couldn’t they get a lot more than Hosmer?
That he'll be 36 on opening day, got a 3yr deal, and his SLG%% is down pretty significantly over the last few years may be playing into it.
You're right. They've freed up some payroll so what they should absolutely do is spend big and back themselves right back into that corner.
And the objection with Abreu isn't the "cash", it's the years and his age. If they want an aging RH bat that will slot into the DH spot 80+% of the time, why not just re-sign JDM?
Is this parody? I read this twice thinking it must be but… it isn’t? The only reason the Red Sox would not be a desirable place for FA to go anymore is that Dave “Moneybags” Dombrowski isn’t throwing the most money at the biggest free agents on the first day of free agency anymore. Did anyone think that was actually sustainable?
Isn’t the consensus around here that they are going to spend big this year? I actually do think a reunion with JD is somewhat likely, and I fully expect an off-season of mostly short term deals. Struggle to see how they get close to the cap, though, without signing some deals far riskier than a third year to Abreu. Time will tell.
What if they did throw money at Abreu, but he decided against being a DH? There are other factors that go into signing free agents.
Xander, one of Hainger/Brantley, one of Eovaldi/Senga gets them to about 200 mil. Add in another bat and some bullpen arms and they're at the cap.
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Spending big doesn't mean spending indiscriminately. Missing out on Abreu for whatever reason doesn't mean they can't spend right to the cap in other ways. They've got about $80M to spend up to the cap (if Cot's estimates are close). Extending Devers and re-signing Bogaerts and Eovaldi alone could eat up at least $60M of that. And that still leaves them in need of an outfielder and a bench/DH type not to mention another reliever or two.
I know things are going slower than we all want this offseason but missing out on one free agent doesn't mean they won't spend big this year. They're very likely going to spend a lot of money at SS and they very well may sign Devers to an extension. While Abreu was a nice target, the Sox would've had to beat out the World Series champs for him. How much of the money available do you really want to spend on a 36 year old with declining power numbers?
Edit: To add, if the Sox do engage Milwaukee on a Woodruff/Yelich deal, there's another route they could spend some money. There's plenty of time for them to spend a lot of money. They aren't going to be a mid market team with a $100M payroll.
Sorry if this has been said already, but the entire Boras/Heyman leak is about Xander. It's meant as part of an attempt to build pressure on the team to step up or increase their offer to Bogaerts by getting the public and media to believe that Sox management isn't willing to spend.
The ploy is nonsense and should be treated as such.
The ploy is nonsense and should be treated as such.
As I understand, there's a lot of local chatter about trading him, likely exacerbated by his rough postseason. A lot of rumblings on Phillies blogs and some of it documented here at FanGraphs.
They're in on the shortstop market, so one problem with helping them free up money (say, in a Hosmer/Hoskins swap) is that we are too. There could be some weird Venn diagram that exists of teams who may be Hosmer suitors, yet we don't want to help them fill a position cheaply so they can chase the same FA targets we are.
Who's the last star free agent the Sox signed away from another team?
I literally can't remember. As best I can tell, the top free agent we've signed in the Chaim era is Story. Almost everyone else has been a lottery ticket.
I literally can't remember. As best I can tell, the top free agent we've signed in the Chaim era is Story. Almost everyone else has been a lottery ticket.
David Price in 2015?
No one wants to hear it but big FA signings end up hurting the acquiring team as often as they do helping them, a total of 11 bWAR in 7 years for $217M total on Price.
I mean, it depends on what you mean by star free agent, but sounds like you've correctly identified the answer of Trevor Story. J.D. Martinez before that.
FWIW, PeteAbe tweeted that he didn't think the Sox would have any real interest in Abreu. I'm not a huge fan but Pete is probably a more reliable source of Sox info than Heyman. So I'd wager there's a good chance this is all complete fabrication on Heyman's part.
I would just be loving to hear that Verlander, Abreu, Judge, etc are spotted on a plane heading toward Boston... getting a tour... something - even if not any real substance - just some excitement and knowing players are interested... but nothing. zip. What once was a golden opportunity seems sort of HoHum now. I could (and hope) that I am wrong but there just isn't any energy around the Red Sox the last few years - imagine Dave D now.... we would likely curse him at times for sure but contention sure feels a lot different.
I dunno, Mancini is just not a very exciting player at all. He had one good year in 2019 and one OK one in 2017 but has otherwise been flirting with replacement level. He has basically no L/R split for his career. He did mash lefties in '21 but was awful against them in '22.
Feel like it needs to be pointed out again. The Winter Meetings are when things usually get going with the free agent market. Those start on Sunday. Action prior to that, especially when it comes to the big names, is pretty rare.
That held true even for Dombrowski. David Price was signed on December 4, 2015. The Chris Sale trade went down on December 6, 2016. The only earlier significant off-season deal he did was the Kimbrel trade, which went down on November 13, 2015.
Really? I could care less. I know that the Sox are not signing Judge or Verlander.... what's the point of showing them around Fenway? Who cares? That's performative BS to me. Maybe Abreu would be realistic but I get more bummed out hearing that Bloom was considering him. Some other players out there.... sure. I'd actually like to hear that Bloom had Correa and Turner in to tour Fenway (is it really a good time of year to show anyone Boston???) just to put some pressure on X. Maybe it'd hurt his feelings though?
I could totally buy Abreu as our #1 target for the winter; he'd have fit the DH role perfectly and could back up 1B. He really seemed like the clearest available upgrade in a position of need to me, cause Judge isn't happening and the rest of the outfield crop is thoroughly unexciting. But we aren't beating (and shouldn't try) the Astor's offer to be a primary 1B. If Heyman is trying to drum up "pressure" it's a pretty weak attempt.
Also re Aberu
(That red sox part linked to the Heyman “tweet”.)
The fact that even Rosenthal could not confirm any figures related to the supposed “offer” from BOS almost 12 hours since that heyman report shows how locked down the BOS FO is
https://theathletic.com/3951194/2022/11/29/mlb-free-agent-rumors-padres-astros/
Has Jim Bowden said the Sox need to "answer" this move with a big signing of their own? It's almost as automatic as Scott Boras talking about the looming Mystery Team ®
It will not be a good deal for everyone but the Astros are actually in their window they tanked more than half a decade to get to. If you are the Astros you overpay to extend the window. If you are the Sox if you do not overpay for someone who will not be an overpay. You need cost-controlled talent and currently the Sox best piece of cost-controlled talent that is ML ready plays first base. It's a risk, but so are all young players.
The Sox are not in a contending window, now? Is that the consensus? Two wins away from the WS a few years ago and would have been good last year save for injuries seems to be the argument of the optimists…now things can change quickly and they aren’t in the same class as the Astros, but what is the expectation for the 23 Sox? Expecting to contend? Hoping?
"offer"? So you think the entire Sox pursuing Abreu is just made up?
The guy ended up on the team who has been to four of the last six World Series winning two of those and is arguably the gold-standard organization in terms of player development and acquisition. The Astros wanted him and got him and I'm comfortable that they think there's plenty of gas in the tank and that he's going to be a nice fit for them in the middle of their annoying lineup of mashers. They know what tf they're doing whereas the jury is still out on the Bloom Sox. I think it's clear the Sox wanted him whether or not he was their "#1 guy!" and missing out on a big piece this early in FA kinda sucks considering Bloom has been caught on the back foot scrambling to make out the roster and ending up with drek like Dalbec and JBJ taking significant ABs. You can already see the narrative shaping up if this off-season is a dud: "They had to focus on X and Devers first and once they missed out on Abreu they were left chumming for leftovers."
Why is it so hard to believe the Sox wanted Abreu? He would be an excellent DH, spell Casas against tough lefties and provide insurance against Casas pulling a Duran. Maybe you don't want to pay $60 million for that but it pretty clear what he would bring to the team.
Keith Law: Astros deny the existence of time by signing Jose Abreu (subscription required)
Just one writer's opinion, but worth sharing:
Just one writer's opinion, but worth sharing:
Or that there may not even have been an offer in the first place and they just discussed what he was looking for and they said that's too expensive for us.
If it's so easy to find a first baseman, why did the Red Sox and Astros trot out a .683 and .656 OPS respectively there last year?
Not for nothing, but I’m sort of tired of being told how easy 1b and DH are to fill, or even RF for that matter.
His Chaimness sure made it look freaking difficult for two years even for a team of 200+ million payroll.
Edit: yeah, what Max said!
Or perhaps the Sox did meet or exceed that and Abreu didn't want to DH. Would you prefer Casas as trade bait or back in the minors?
Yeah, the idea that it is easy to find good hitting 1b/of/dh is really outdated. Hell, the James Click led Astros primary 1b last year had a 646 ops. The Rays primary 1b had a 729 ops.
I’m confused: are we mad Chaim didn’t blow a ton of money on Abreu or was that the consensus smart move?
Ok I'll bite: if there is a consensus, and its a narrow one, I sense that the concern is Chaim only builds a successful team this year if he can do it with a bunch of Day 1 positive value contracts (hyperbole-ish I know). This doesn't seem probable.