Red Sox Rumors - Just Kidding

soxhop411

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View: https://twitter.com/alexspeier/status/1608269422652784640?s=46&t=_a_7kIWlIL52agoc7HjuLA


Hard to believe they wouldn’t better this for that short of commitment.

They have some big holes to fill and I don’t see how they do it without giving up significant organizational talent.
Yep pretty much have to go the trade route now.
We still need to free up 2 40 man spots for the turner and Kluber signings. So possibly
 

E5 Yaz

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Iglesias and Andrus still available, but yeah, getting to be slim pickings. Maybe they are just gonna go with Story / Arroyo.
Heard radio conjecture today (MLB Radio, Sirius, forgot who) That the Braves could be looking at Iglesias as Grissom insurance
 

greek_gawd_of_walks

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I wouldn't say I'm disappointed they didn't sign Segura (disappointment happened long ago), but he was clearly the best option left at SS. Really uncertain what the plan is. Story isn't going back to SS. Just a gut feeling, coupled with the weakened arm and not a single appearance there last year.

Hoping the Brewers move Adames. That's my hope.
 

sackamano

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I wouldn't say I'm disappointed they didn't sign Segura (disappointment happened long ago), but he was clearly the best option left at SS. Story isn't going back to SS. Just a gut feeling, coupled with the weakened arm and not a single appearance there last year.
As opposed to the 6 games in the last 3 years that Segura has appeared at SS.
 

sackamano

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Bryson Stott came up this past
Great point. No need to be dickish.

His arm strength still grades out lightyears ahead of Story... and the emergence of Byson Stott had a thing or two to do with his shift to second?

What's your hope?
Bryson Stott came up this past year (2022), for the first time. Segura hasn't played SS since 2019. So Stott's emergence seems to have little to do with Segura's shift to 2B.

Perhaps his feeble defensive play at SS in 2019 had more to do with it.

My hope isn't really relevant.
 

BravesField

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I wouldn't say I'm disappointed they didn't sign Segura (disappointment happened long ago), but he was clearly the best option left at SS. Really uncertain what the plan is. Story isn't going back to SS. Just a gut feeling, coupled with the weakened arm and not a single appearance there last year.

Hoping the Brewers move Adames. That's my hope.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the plan is pretty clear, Story is penciled in at SS. Most of the good alternatives are now gone.

I don't see how the Brewers can move Adames. They finished 2 games out from the playoffs last year. They already moved Renfroe. If they move Adames, then they would have traded 2 guys who hit 25 percent of their bombs in '22. That might be tough to explain to their fan base.
 

Yaz4Ever

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Unless the Correa/Mets deal collapses, I don't see an avenue for us to make a big splash at this point. I'm 99% sure we're looking at Story at SS and Arroyo at 2nd. It is what it is. We're not going to contend anyhow, so I'll just try to enjoy any positives I see from the kids and look toward the future. Getting really jealous of the Braves at this point.
 

OCD SS

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Even if the Mets/ Correa deal collapses, it’s not like we can expect the Sox to get involved. Any move they might make is going to be independent… my guess is whatever middle IF they can get for Duran/ Dalbec/ lesser prospects is added to Story and Arroyo, with the positions shuffled accordingly.
 

Yaz4Ever

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Even if the Mets/ Correa deal collapses, it’s not like we can expect the Sox to get involved. Any move they might make is going to be independent… my guess is whatever middle IF they can get for Duran/ Dalbec/ lesser prospects is added to Story and Arroyo, with the positions shuffled accordingly.
I could be way too optimistic but I think if Correa is again available, they’ll either jump in and offer him 2/80 or something short with a high AAV or they’ll be sending Devers to NYM. Either would be a big splash, imho.
 

Green Monster

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Only mentioned him because he was in previous Marlins rumors.
This from about a week ago, just after the Xander news broke
https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/mlb-rumors-red-sox-interested-marlins-inf-joey-wendle

Joey Wendle is also on the Red Sox' radar, according to The Athletic's Chad Jennings. Although chief baseball officer Chaim Bloom has identified second baseman Trevor Story as a possible Bogaerts replacement, the club reportedly believes Wendle would fit on the roster as an alternative option.
 

BeantownIdaho

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I think the best option (outside of some bigger trade of course) is to work something for Wendle. He's played a decent amount of ss and 2nd so there is some versatility. He has decent offensive (1.1) and defensive war (1.7). The question would be the price in a trade. They now have Segura, Rojas and Wendle in the fold so something has to give. With 2 40 man spots needing to open up for Turner and Kluber, I am still expecting a trade...but of course we could DFA Brasier, the guy we kept on the roster instead of Thad Ward...I mean that would make sense given this off-season.
 

Max Power

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I'd rather just see Elvis Andrews signed. He can play short well and could likely cover second if he tried. His recent hitting isn't all that different from Wendle and all he'd cost is money. He'd initially be a backup, but would be a starter as soon as the inevitable Arroyo injury arrives.
 

TimScribble

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I do wonder what the Sox will do roster wise. They’ll have to clear two players at least for CK and JT. If they add a SS, then even more.
 

kevinengel

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I know basically everyone has written Jarren Duran off at this point, but does anyone have insight as to if there is a reason he can't be an option as part of the 2B puzzle? I believe he was moved to the OF to take advantage of his athleticism, but that experiment feels failed at this point. Does getting him at a position that he can play along with the shift ban and larger bases give a glimmer of hope that Duran can turn back into a useful piece of the puzzle? As the roster is currently constructed it seems worth the gamble especially since you can start the experiment at AAA.
 

OCD SS

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I could be way too optimistic but I think if Correa is again available, they’ll either jump in and offer him 2/80 or something short with a high AAV or they’ll be sending Devers to NYM. Either would be a big splash, imho.
I don't see Correa doing another high AAV low years contract, and I'm skeptical that this FO would offer enough to make that an enticing option.

The idea of a Devers trade crossed my mind as a splash, but I don't want to open up that can of worms. Besides that's likely a splash for the Mets, I don't see the Sox getting enough back that they'd count it as a splash in Boston (maybe a belly flop...)
 

Yaz4Ever

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I know basically everyone has written Jarren Duran off at this point, but does anyone have insight as to if there is a reason he can't be an option as part of the 2B puzzle? I believe he was moved to the OF to take advantage of his athleticism, but that experiment feels failed at this point. Does getting him at a position that he can play along with the shift ban and larger bases give a glimmer of hope that Duran can turn back into a useful piece of the puzzle? As the roster is currently constructed it seems worth the gamble especially since you can start the experiment at AAA.
I imagine everyone else has seen the seem lack of hustle and respect for the game as the rest of us, so his market is at a bottom. Can't hurt to try this.
 

BeantownIdaho

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I'd rather just see Elvis Andrews signed. He can play short well and could likely cover second if he tried. His recent hitting isn't all that different from Wendle and all he'd cost is money. He'd initially be a backup, but would be a starter as soon as the inevitable Arroyo injury arrives.
I would be fine with Andrus or Iglesias.... but it creates the problem of the 40 man with 3 guys that would have to come off. That's why I was thinking a trade of someone (s) that come off the 40 in order to create the space needed for Turner, Kluber and whomever they trade for.
 

Yaz4Ever

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I don't see Correa doing another high AAV low years contract, and I'm skeptical that this FO would offer enough to make that an enticing option.

The idea of a Devers trade crossed my mind as a splash, but I don't want to open up that can of worms. Besides that's likely a splash for the Mets, I don't see the Sox getting enough back that they'd count it as a splash in Boston (maybe a belly flop...)
I'd expect Baty plus back for him. Getting all of Baty's pre-arb time is a splash for us if we're losing Devers. I'd prefer Baty or someone comparable to a QO pick, if we don't move him.
 

Jimbodandy

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I could be way too optimistic but I think if Correa is again available, they’ll either jump in and offer him 2/80 or something short with a high AAV or they’ll be sending Devers to NYM. Either would be a big splash, imho.
Why do you keep mentioning making a "big splash"?

I'm fine with the argument that you need to sign expensive free agents in order to contend. I'm not sure that it has been proven statistically, but anecdotally it makes sense. Teams with elite talent win more games, and it's damn hard to assemble a team of elite talent purely from the draft and international signings. But winning the sports pages shouldn't be a goal of this team. When you wrote that once, I didn't feel the need to say anything. But you wrote it twice in a span of a few posts. Apologies if I'm mischaracterizing your position, but the next month of so should be about what trades and signings that Bloom can make to improve the 2023 record, not to energize the fan base.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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I worry a bit about Arroyo’s D in a post-shift world. Steady glove but I think range could be an issue (to be fair I have not seen him in a post-shift world yet). Whereas Story at 2b with another strong glove at ss would be pretty dynamic defensively since we are unlikely to pull in a big bat MIF anyway. Arroyo remains as solid multipositional depth, Valdez waiting in the wings, ideally forcing the issue.
 
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walt in maryland

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Since we're here and not really discussing "rumors"... I would agree with your outlook on Sale. But then from last year's rotation....

Boston lost:
- Wacha: 127.1 innings at a 3.32 era (4.14 fip)
- Hill: 124.1 innings at a 4.27 era (4.14 fip)
- Eovaldi: 109.1 innings at a 3.87 era (4.30 fip)

Boston is hopefully replacing those with:
- Paxton: didn't pitch at all last year; I'd assume he could give them ~125 innings in 2023
- Sale: pitched just 5.2 innings last year; I'd assume he could give them ~125 innings in 2023
- Bello: pitched 57.1 innings at the MLB level; I'd assume he could go 150-170 innings in 2023 (he pitched 153.1 total last year)

Now, when healthy (and we don't need to be talking about peak CHRIS SALE here), those bottom three guys are, I think, better than those top three guys. Sale, even at 85%, sure is. Paxton's track record is better than the other three. Bello doesn't, but his last six starts really showed what he can do, after adjusting to life in the majors: 31.1 ip, 2.59 era, 1.53 whip (that needs to improve a lot), 8.9 k/9. He won't put up a 2.59 era in 2023, but he certainly has the ability to be a mid-3's era kind of guy, with improvement still to come after that. The raw talent is there for sure.

But all that still would leave Boston with a gigantic hole in the rotation. Pivetta takes the other spot, but what about the 41 starts and 166 innings started by the trio of Crawford, Winckowski, and Seabold (at a combined era of 6.29!)? Who gets those? Probably some combination of people - maybe Whitlock. Maybe this same trio. Maybe someone else. Who knows. But you'd think that they'd be better than what this trio did in 2022, right?

So back to rumors: I have heard and seen nothing on this front, but I'd hope that the Sox would be pursuing another starting pitcher. Maybe bring Wacha back. Maybe make a trade. I don't know. But I'd sure like to see them add one more starter.
Don't forget Mata and Walter, who should both pitch in the majors this year
 

walt in maryland

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Chisolm? He seems to be another name in the mix with Wendle, Rojas and now Segura. Wouldn't mind adding him... be a high cost than the others, but the bar would be a bit higher IMO.
Chisholm is Miami's best, most exciting young player. He's not going anywhere. But this does seem to make a Rojas deal more likely. They're not going to play two 34-year-olds in the MI
 

Yelling At Clouds

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I'd rather just see Elvis Andrews signed. He can play short well and could likely cover second if he tried. His recent hitting isn't all that different from Wendle and all he'd cost is money. He'd initially be a backup, but would be a starter as soon as the inevitable Arroyo injury arrives.
I wouldn’t have known it if I hadn’t looked it up, but Elvis Andrus was kind of good last year? I was surprised to learn that. An outlier in the recent years of his career, sure, but yeah, 3 wins by BB-Ref’s reckoning and 3.5 by FG’s.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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A noodle bat at SS seems like a bad idea given the rest of the lineup, doesn’t it? Let’s say they acquire Rojas- you are looking at a lineup something like this which seems lacking.

Yoshida
Verdugo
Story
Devers
Turner
Casas
Hernandez
McGuire
Rojas

Not that Andrus or Arroyo are all that compelling offensive threats either- feels like they need another bat somewhere.

Hernandez at SS, Verdugo in CF and a bat in RF might be an option- of course, who that bat is and how it’s acquired is a mystery, and you take a hit defensively.
 

simplicio

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With Kluber's signing, Cots has us with just under $29m space below the threshold, including arbitration estimates. If a Raffy extension is happening, let's say doubling his arb number to $33m, that would bring us down to $12.5 available. Is that enough to get Andrus (a Boras client) coming off a 3.5 WAR season plus leave a little space for in season moves? I'm doubtful.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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With Kluber's signing, Cots has us with just under $29m space below the threshold, including arbitration estimates. If a Raffy extension is happening, let's say doubling his arb number to $33m, that would bring us down to $12.5 available. Is that enough to get Andrus (a Boras client) coming off a 3.5 WAR season plus leave a little space for in season moves? I'm doubtful.
Bear in mind that Justin Turner hasn't been added to the Cot's sheet yet (odd considering Kluber is no more official than Turner at this point), so that would reduce that $29M to ~$17M before a hypothetical Devers extension.
 

gehrig

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With Kluber's signing, Cots has us with just under $29m space below the threshold, including arbitration estimates. If a Raffy extension is happening, let's say doubling his arb number to $33m, that would bring us down to $12.5 available. Is that enough to get Andrus (a Boras client) coming off a 3.5 WAR season plus leave a little space for in season moves? I'm doubtful.
Red Sox Payroll on Twitter is the best source and has us 16.7 million under after Kluber. They can structure the Devers extension so it doesn't change his 2023 salary for luxury tax purposes
 

E5 Yaz

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Red Sox Payroll on Twitter is the best source and has us 16.7 million under after Kluber. They can structure the Devers extension so it doesn't change his 2023 salary for luxury tax purposes
What makes them the "best source"?
 

gehrig

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I'm guessing the player's agent would play a big role in this structuring.
It doesn't make a difference to the player. You can either say that you have a new contract that starts in 2024, in which cases his 2023 AAV is his 6th year arb salary, or you announce that you're ripping up his current deal and have a long term contract that starts in 2023. In the former case, you can still give Devers a raise for 2023 in the form of a signing bonus.
 

PedroKsBambino

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In the 'not rumored but might make sense in the middle infield' category, I could imagine exploring whether the Twins are interested in moving Jorge Polanco for value. There would be a cost here---likely prospects and possibly some current-year value and that might exceed what Sox are interested in sending out. Polanco projects at their starting 2B (his primary position last couple years), though he has a lot of SS experience as well. He's likely more a 2B option for Sox.

Twins traded for Kyle Farmer to play SS and have Royce Lewis coming back mid-year from ACL injury so SS is most likely some combo of those two. Either could presumably play 2B later in year. They also have Arraez who should really slot in at 2B---they have him potentially at 1B, but that is not optimal and also is the obvious place for Alex Kirilloff (or another of their corner outfielders). Nick Gordon and other utility types are on roster as well.

I like Polanco's bat, and there's some defensive versatility there. Twins don't need to trade him- only $5 mil salary for 2023 with $10 mil and $12 mil options for 2024-2025 and are likely trying to be a contender this year, so Sox would have to really like Polanco and pay a full price.
 

Big Papi's Mango Salsa

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With Kluber's signing, Cots has us with just under $29m space below the threshold, including arbitration estimates. If a Raffy extension is happening, let's say doubling his arb number to $33m, that would bring us down to $12.5 available. Is that enough to get Andrus (a Boras client) coming off a 3.5 WAR season plus leave a little space for in season moves? I'm doubtful.
Yeah, spotrac has us at roughly $23m under right now, but they also still have us on the books for $4m on Hosmer's AAV and Speier said it doesn't count (I trust him more than spotrac) and I assume Cots has removed Hosmer entirely (I just use spotrac because it's easier to see and the numbers are close).

Not for nothing, but I too obviously hope a Devers extension is happening, and I also think $33m over 10 years or some such gets it done. I'd prefer to see that $12.5m be allocated to something like 3/$30m on Wacha and then go with a non-tendered option in Garret Hampson. I don't count on the durability of Arroyo, Sale or Paxton AND I really don't count on Elvis Andrus or Garrett Hampson being (or anyone else from the non-tender list) being good.

As such, I'd rather see that allocated to cover two spots as opposed to one, and have the "one" be somebody capable of covering multiple positions on the IF/OF.
 

JM3

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The Athletic says industry sources have SD's Kim and Grisham as being available (Grisham more so), despite Preller's earlier comments. Padres need pitching. Could something like Houck for Kim happen?
https://theathletic.com/4041850/2022/12/29/padres-starting-pitching-grisham-kim?source=user-shared-article
Would love to clear out the dregs of the 40-man for a competent, reasonably priced shortstop.

Pivetta/Duran/Dalbec for Kim would make me very happy. Also happy to throw in Seabold/Winckowski/Brasier, etc.

Then sign Wacha & maybe Profar, maybe Chafin if they throw Brasier in, & I would be ok rolling it out for '23.
 

simplicio

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I'd like that too but I don't think it's realistic. Kim is a valuable asset and those are some scuffed nickels.
 

GB5

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In a perfect world I would rather they not spend just to spend before the season.

Everyone assumes they are going to spend right up to the cap before the season. I would rather they leave some money to rather than spending day 7-8 million in their 6th or 7th option at SS like Iglesias.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I'd like that too but I don't think it's realistic. Kim is a valuable asset and those are some scuffed nickels.
FWIW, Baseball Trade Values agrees with you. Dalbec/Duran/Pivetta is not nearly enough, but Houck alone works. I get the desire to clear out roster spots, but packing up a bunch of flotsam isn't going to bring back much of anything.