John Marzano Olympic Hero
has fancy plans, and pants to match
- Apr 12, 2001
Right, I get what you're saying about Henry's money and he has the right to spend it the way he wants to. But isn't there an unwritten contract between team owner and fan: we give you money, you give us a good team. I mean, I think that's the assumption that we've all been working under for a long time. Even if Henry spends over the limit, he's going to get realize some profit, no? I don't feel betrayed so much, I just think that if he's not going to try his best to put a winner on the field, what's the point? And if he's looking to save money, this plan is nothing but wallpaper. What's going to happen in a few years when players want their money? Is it this the same cycle all over again? Because honestly, that sucks.I get where you're coming from but it's his money. He can hoard it and buy multiple yachts and private islands if he wants. There's clearly a budget and a direction that Bloom is working under. From how I'm reading this... is that Henry sees that up to a certain point of spending, the returns just aren't worth it to go over. Fine. It is what it is and I don't see the point in getting worked up about it and feeling betrayed. Would I like him to spend more... sure. But me screaming at him to sign Devers to whatever he's asking is probably more effective than me posting here about it... and I'm pretty certain that doing that has zero affect on it too.
I'm going to enjoy whatever team the Sox put out there.... my rabid days of Sox fandom is long over. If the team is looking good, I'll stay tuned in longer and more attentively. If they are garbage, I'll probably just check the box scores and move on with my day. They've won 4 WS. More than I could have imagined. I honestly just don't care as much as I used to and am happy for other teams when they win now.
Like I've said before, I'm going to watch the Sox no matter what. The baseball poison is too deep within me and there's nothing I can do about it. But watching shitty baseball for six months, I mean that absolutely blows.
Understood. But this metaphor assumes that the person doing reps of 225 started at zero, or 100 pounds (whatever). The Sox didn't start at zero. Three years ago from today the Sox had: Betts, Benitendi, Bogaerts, JBJ, Vazquez, Sale and Devers. They were all either in or entering their primes, now the only two players they have are Sale and Devers. Anything that they received from the others have ranged from absolute zero to meh. If the Red Sox started from zero like the person in your example, like if they were an expansion team, then yes; I'd be a bit more patient. But to steal your example, the Sox are like the Rock and now they're struggling to bench 135.Your post was comprehensive, and I agree with much of what you're saying. This snip is something that jumps out at me.
If you're at the gym, and some 20yo in the station next to you has out his notebook and is reviewing his plan for the day and taking notes and then reps 225 off the floor a few times, you could look at it two ways. You could say "whatever plan that fool is following is the worst, if all it leads to is 225# triples"? Or you could understand that his plan takes time and try to gauge it based on whether he's hitting his milestones or not. Maybe he was at 185# two cycles ago and has made it to 205 and now 225 in ten weeks. Maybe he'll be at 315 or 350 by the end of the year on this plan (not bad for a guy who's 160 himself). Just because he's at 225 now doesn't mean that there is no plan or that the plan is bad.
I'm not sure that's true. You're the one who said that the reason for this infrastructure is to "spit out cheap ball players". There's only a small handful of people on this planet who cares what the players' salaries are: the player, the agents and the people who pay them. And since I can safely assume you're not talking about the player or the agent, you must be talking about the people who pay them, FSG or John Henry. I didn't say anything about "cheap ball players" or anything regarding their salaries.@John Marzano Olympic Hero
Our bottom line disagreement isn't that I GAF about John Henry's bottom line. Most of what you've said is countered by what I put in my $540m post.
The first years of free agent contracts are the best years. If you line those years up with great young talent, you get things like '18 when Price/Sale/JD contracts supplemented a great young core - but then you get the down side after that where you're paying $60m for almost nothing from those guys.
Your solution can be "well just buy MORE players", but not even Steve Cohen is running out a $500m payroll. Cheap players are important because they help you buy expensive players and have a really good team. Cheap players are not important because they save John Henry money. If you have more cheap players coming through the system all the time, you can afford the downside of the later years on those long term deals.
Giving those long-term deals before your infrastructure is built up will just handcuff you later when you have the next albatross contract on your books so you are unlikely to invest in the next big deal.
And I agree with you about how the cheaper players are used to fill in the holes of the more expensive players. But the Sox aren't doing that now, they're stuck in some weird no-man's land. They're going with mostly cheap players (Yoshida, Sale and Devers aside) and are passing on higher priced players for reasons.
Did the Sox FO come out and say it? No, at least I don't think so. But when people in the media used this as a talking point, they didn't exactly shy away from it either. Like I don't expect the Sox to come out and say, "No Vacancy for high-priced players. Sorry, not sorry!" but Kennedy and Bloom have made allusions to "doing it what it takes" to sign homegrown free agents and others. They haven't. I guess they can get cute and say, "We didn't explicitly lie to our fans" but fuck the semantics, they sorta did.Sorry, I could research this myself, but I have seen a lot of people repeat this and I'm wondering, did BOS management ever actually say anything like that in the wake of the Mookie deal?
I was thinking about that too. There's such a low confidence level in this team right now and it has to do with both durability and talent.This point really resonated with me. There are times when I feel like some folks embrace a certain New England Puritanical approach to sports fandom. A notion that one has to suffer to truly appreciate better times. I mean, there's no Bulgarian gymnastics judge here. We don't get bonus points for higher degrees of difficulty.
I was thinking the other day that there is only one batter in the likely 2023 lineup who's production I feel confident about: Devers. All 8 other spots have some varying amount of uncertainty, from 'who the heck knows' (Yoshida) to 'most likely to be very good' (Story). Same applies to the starting rotation. I can't recall the last time I felt this much uncertainty about so many spots. Even in 2013, where the offseason looked vaguely similar to this one (sign cheap-ish vets to short deals, wait for the prospects to arrive) we still had Ortiz, Pedroia, Ellsbury and Lester as a foundation.
Sale pitches well and doesn't get hurt and holds up through August and September
Paxton simply pitches
Houck takes to starting
Whitlock takes to starting
The catching duo is able to take on more of a load
Casas can hit (I mean, he better because there's no one behind him)
Arroyo can play every day and produce
Story can throw from short and stay healthy
Yoshida can translate from his talents from the Japanese league to the AL
Kike can do better than his baseline average self
Vedugo can hit for more power
Turner has something left in the tank
Jansen can get the ball to the plate quicker
The bullpen can be better (I think that they will)
Then this team can contend. Probably. I think.
But that's 14 questions (and I don't think I'm being overly pessimistic here) that the Sox have to nail. Otherwise they're absolutely screwed this year. Like 8slim said, this isn't 2013 when you had Ortiz, Pedroia, Lester and Ellsbury. This team is in deep, deep crap if there are injuries (there's really no ifs about this, there's going to be) and no one steps up. It's one of the first season where I have no optimism for this team at all.