Yes, we get it, you think the owners are colluding. Note has been made. Please stop now.
Red Sox sign Eduardo Nunez
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
- Start date
I still think there's about a 90% chance he ends up here. Everything is pointing that way in terms of the negotiations. The only person leaking the Arizona possibility is Jon Heyman, who is a Boras mouthpiece.
Or it takes the wind out of the feel good paper story surrounding a soon to be 26yo that ops'd .545 in the minors last year. Who the Sox weren't going to be comfortable enough with to push Leon out of his job, and is now looking at 1 less "we are going to try playing him here" spot open to compete for.
Holt has actual experience being a legit multiple position player, and ended the season on a decent rebound note.
Agree. I think the reason they signed Nunez or any other useful free agent at that price is because they can still afford both him and another big bat.
It's also a possibility that salary is moved off the roster at some point too.
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He OPS ed .559 in the second half. He’s toast. It’s sad because it’s likely attributable to the concussions, but the guy is cooked. He’s no longer a viable piece on a first division team and if you can replace him with Nunez for $4M you do it. The previous admin fucked Swihart up, there’s no harm in trying to salvage him in some capacity. Having a guy that can catch also be able to play other positions if he can hit, off the bench, is a good thing, especially when the one position he’s never played is the one we need help at for a couple months.
Holt barely saw any games before the second half. He was decent in September.
It's also pretty reach'y imo to consider Swihart any less "cooked" then Holt atm. The potential 3rd catcher aspect is intriguing and all, but I just don't see that being the actual direction taken there. With Holt ultimately snagging a bench spot before him.
I don't necessarily think Holt is cooked but he is now marginalized at best. Concussions do funny things and we don't know if he was even healthy when he came back. I just think he is way down on the depth chart and is unlikely to make the roster.
Holt has an option left, while Swihart doesn't. Do you think the Sox are going to release Swihart to avoid optioning Holt?
I'm pretty happy to see Nunez back. I had advocated a bit for it in one of the other threads and was a little bit surprised that it didn't get more support. Holt's versatility is very valuable given the short bench in MLB. I see Nunez as that guy now, a much better option than Holt at this point.
I have advocated for signing Nuney all off-season, so I'm happy. I am not as sure as the rest of you that BHOLT is gone. The Sox value his ability to play so many positions, and if he can stay, and they have the option of pulling up Swihart as soon as someone else goes down, they may do that.
Adding: with some post-concussion exceptions, HOLT is as good defensively as Nunez is bad, so that in itself may earn him a bench spot.
Adding: with some post-concussion exceptions, HOLT is as good defensively as Nunez is bad, so that in itself may earn him a bench spot.
Maybe? Seems far-fetched they'd carry Marrero (out of options), Swihart, Nunez, and Holt on the same bench. Or burn Holt's option and waste $2.25M to play him in Pawtucket when they're counting millions against the tax.
I guess it may mean Marrero's gone instead.
I don't think they would have signed Nunez if they were ok with a bench of Marrero, Swihart and Holt. I think they try to move one (or more) of those guys for someone "less proven" who still has options.
It's even nicer when you factor in that he made $4.2M last year. Lay down a .321/.353/.539 slash line (with Boston) and take a demotion. It's def a different free agent landscape.
I think it's possible for Holt, if healthy, to stick around for a little bit as Nunez is likely your starting 2B into May. It will be interesting to see what happens when Pedroia returns. At that point I can't see both of them on the bench. Nunez is a nice offensive upgrade from Holt, but there is still a need for power off the bench.
I think a lot of us liked Nunez, but didn't think he would sign a low money 1 year with and option type deal. Or commit to a team that wouldn't have a starting role for him. But obviously a lot has changed since we thought that. I'm very happy to have him on the team at this price.
OK, I see that now. That changes things, especially with Swihart pushing his health and ability to "rake" as the spring approaches. We'll just have to wait and see.
Im curious what will happen if Nunez is completely healthy and puts up a similar batting line to last year for the 6-8 weeks Pedroia is out. I'm assuming all other positions are set. I know there is the thought that he can be moved all over the diamond but if he is raking do we want the team messing with him like that? We've also seen players playing out of position hit poorly. Maybe he works into a timeshare with Pedroia but I cant see Peddy being OK or quiet about it. Sure Pedroia can DH but I don't believe his bat is good enough at this point in his career
I thought the entire reason pedroia signed his team friendly deal was that he didnt want to be a burden on the team during his decline? also, with his defense, if he is totally healthy, he is 100% a better player than Nunez. that would be a situation where we just dont rush him back at all, and give him all the rest he may need to keep him fresh for October
My point was simply that the knee was likely not the only reason for the depressed offering. Never mentioned the C word here, so I suggest you take your own advice
So ...if not collusion, what are you implying/inferring are the other reasons for the depressed offering?
Not if Hanley is raking too.
I imagine that once Pedroia is back, he'll play 2-3 times a week and ease his way back to full time play. That gives Nunez 2-3 starts at 2B for a few more weeks and 2-3 games to play elsewhere giving Bogaerts or Devers a few extra days off.
It's entirely possible that come July, Pedroia is healthy, Hernandez is healthy, and Nunez is extraneous. He very well could be a trade chip at the deadline...maybe flip him for a reliever or something.
I think people are being too quick to latch on to a fairly wish'y Swihart is going reestablish his career as a super utility player concept, while being just as overly quick in writing off Holt's potential usefulness as a player here. Who unlike the other and outside their disaster stint in LF has actually logged a pro inning in the infield outside 7 games at 1B (where we are already covered with Moreland/Hanley).
I also just don't see there being enough of a reasonable expectation in place that Blake is going to hit, much less outhit a healthy Holt, to ultimately warrant having his out of options status force the issue either. To me Swihart's chances at walking out of ST with a roster spot revolve entirely around being the potential backup in the event one of Vaz/Leon go down. Otherwise I'm left guessing that he's probably getting dealt to a flyer interest team with the backup catcher spot open, or simply waived in the end if/when he shows up to ST as the same hitter who posted a .191/.246/.292 line as a 25yo in AAA last year.
Depending on where Hanley's hitting is at and assuming everybody is healthy, I'm guessing they'd potentially revisit the whole revolving DH idea that was kicked around prior to signing Moreland last off-season.
We need to get a good look at where Swihart is at this spring before calling him a better utility option than Holt at this point.
With both Swihart’s and Holt’s recent numbers depressed by lingering injuries, there’s not much for we internet fans to say. The player evaluation and medical people have to earn their checks.
I think Swihart fits the roster better. I want to see Hanley or Moreland PHing for a catcher in late inning spots, which Blake Swihart, third catcher, could facilitate.
But this all depends on health.
I think Swihart fits the roster better. I want to see Hanley or Moreland PHing for a catcher in late inning spots, which Blake Swihart, third catcher, could facilitate.
But this all depends on health.
I feel like worrying about what we do if both Nunez and Hanley are raking is sorta like worrying what should we do because we have too many starting pitchers. It's one of those good problems, and it almost never actually happens.
Who thought it was a team option? Seemed like it being a player option was a given considering the contract is the epitome of a "prove you're healthy" deal. If he ends the year healthy and productive, he'll want to be a free agent again.
His BABIP was considerably higher than his career norm, I expect him to go back to a close to league average hitter with some nice pop and few walks, the way he was for most of the last 3 seasons. Which is still pretty nice to have from a middle infielder type, especially without Pedroia for a bit.
Didn't realize that Nunez had a better line against RHP than anyone else we had last year.
In 2016, we had six hitters with a wRC+ of 110 and up (Ortiz 175, Betts 143, Bradley 136, Pedroia 122, Ramirez 111, Bogaerts 110). Seven if you count Beni's 162 in 85 PAs.
In 2017, Nunez was highest with a wRC+ of 118 (145 for Boston) against RHP. The only other hitter above 110 was Beni at 111.
In 2016, we had six hitters with a wRC+ of 110 and up (Ortiz 175, Betts 143, Bradley 136, Pedroia 122, Ramirez 111, Bogaerts 110). Seven if you count Beni's 162 in 85 PAs.
In 2017, Nunez was highest with a wRC+ of 118 (145 for Boston) against RHP. The only other hitter above 110 was Beni at 111.
No, the obvious answer is to trade Holt during spring training, since even though $2MM is generally chump change to the Red Sox payroll, saving that salary may now actually be crucial to make in-season bullpen moves.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Seems far fetched to carry Holt or send him down.
What's the difference between 2/$8M with an opt-out, and 1/$4M with a player option for a second year at $4M? And which one benefits ownership more?
They would appear to be identical. An opt-out IS a player option. And player options are included when calculating AAV.
Happy to see another "elder" Hispanic leader on the team. I think the players could really use it.
There’s only one Big Papi, or Pedro Martinez. From hearing him speak, Nunez doesn’t sound like either. Maybe he is a leader in the clubhouse though. You never know.
True, but Devers and Nunez were basically always sitting together in the dugout last September. It was nice to see Eduardo take the kid under his wing like that.
If Nunez wasn’t a clear step-up from Holt and the rest of the UT-wannabe options, or was signed to a contract that made other improvements to the team impossible, then that fact might not be worth mentioning.
But since those two issues aren’t at play, it’s nice to see the positive vibe, too.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2018/02/16/red-sox-considering-trade-make-room-for-eduardo-nunez/ItFqMKqcSzQRE61umeYB6M/story.html
Boston Globe reports "...adding Nunez also would create a logjam of utility players with Brock Holt, Tzu-Wei Lin, Deven Marrero, and Blake Swihart in camp."
Of that group, I see plusses with each.
But if one had to leave I think we have seen the best of BROCK HOLT. Each of the others represents a piece of the season long puzzle and some with potential upside that a contender needs and a wealthy team can afford to gamble on.
Boston Globe reports "...adding Nunez also would create a logjam of utility players with Brock Holt, Tzu-Wei Lin, Deven Marrero, and Blake Swihart in camp."
Of that group, I see plusses with each.
But if one had to leave I think we have seen the best of BROCK HOLT. Each of the others represents a piece of the season long puzzle and some with potential upside that a contender needs and a wealthy team can afford to gamble on.
Isn't that what Brentz is for (or Barfield if he beats Brentz out)?
Even before Pedroia retuns, Nunez' signing means there isn't room on the bench for all five of Leon/Swihart/Marrero/Holt/Brentz. So it seems one of the following things must happen:
1) The Sox release or trade one of the five.
2) They option Holt.
3) They go with a five-man bench and six-man bullpen.
As for #1, none of them probably have much trade value at this point, with Swihart perhaps having the most (but a lot less than he would have had 2-3 years ago). Is anybody going to trade for Holt's salary given his performance the past couple of years?
As unpalatable as paying Holt $2M to play in Pawtucket may be, I would think it would be better than paying him that to play for somebody else, or not at all. And those seem like the choices.
Any possibility of #3?
I think Holt eventually gets traded, but depending on the makeup of the team as they come out of spring training there's a shot he starts the season in the majors. If not, then using that option seems the way to go.
As they usually ramp up starting pitcher innings early in the year, I doubt they would go with fewer relievers.