Red Sox Spring training thread

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

 
That is a meaningless statement. The only Abs that people in Boston "dont expect" are ones that end up in outs too many times.  if you're saying he's gonna suck, then, yeah, "people in Boston" (are these different than "Red Sox fans"?) wont expect or like it.
"People in Boston" have also been known to be idiots of the not 2004 team variety. ("JD Drew didn't have enuf RBIs.....")

 
I suppose I should be more clear here too given your confusion.  For my purposes, I will use Hanley Ramirez as a comp given that they both signed on the same day and for roughly the same amount of AAV.   I believe that Ramirez, who is capable of getting on base at a .360 or .370 clip and having an o-swing rate of somewhere around ~30% (which is high relative to his career) should, if he performs to his historical averages, put up ABs that Red Sox fans are happy with given what they have grown accustomed to from the top Red Sox performers of the last decade plus.
 
Sandoval, on the other hand, will be a test of the aesthetic with his lower OBP (call it .340 to be generous) and, more importantly, his penchant for swinging like he was an extra at the key party scene from the Ice Storm - his o-swing of 48.1% led the MLB last season and he is second to the one and only beloved A.J. Pierzynski in that stat over the past three seasons.  
 
I guess I could have saved us both a lot of time and simply said he is a lot more free-swinging than the players the Sox fans have become accustomed to of late but where is the fun in that?

 

[Monbo Jumbo]

King Fu Bridgestone. 

 

[joe dokes]

 
I suppose I should be more clear here too given your confusion.  For my purposes, I will use Hanley Ramirez as a comp given that they both signed on the same day and for roughly the same amount of AAV.   I believe that Ramirez, who is capable of getting on base at a .360 or .370 clip and having an o-swing rate of somewhere around ~30% (which is high relative to his career) should, if he performs to his historical averages, put up ABs that Red Sox fans are happy with given what they have grown accustomed to from the top Red Sox performers of the last decade plus.
 
Sandoval, on the other hand, will be a test of the aesthetic with his lower OBP (call it .340 to be generous) and, more importantly, his penchant for swinging like he was an extra at the key party scene from the Ice Storm - his o-swing of 48.1% led the MLB last season and he is second to the one and only beloved A.J. Pierzynski in that stat over the past three seasons.  
 
I guess I could have saved us both a lot of time and simply said he is a lot more free-swinging than the players the Sox fans have become accustomed to of late but where is the fun in that?

 
 
I see your point, and yeah, that would be no fun at all. A 340 OBP swinging at everything wont raise too much of a stink....300 might be stinky. unless he slugs 475.

 

[Montana Fan]

Victorino is fired up and he's going opposite Beast Mode.  Basically, he loves Mookie but doesn't plan on playing behind him.
 

 
“I’ve never been more motivated, more determined to prove something,” Victorino said in a sit-down interview with WEEI.com. “People might say as a veteran of almost 10 years why do you have to prove anything. But it’s more than proving. It’s understanding that I still love what I do. A back surgery is not going to be a reason why my career ends. It’s going to be a lot more than that to not play this game.”

 
“The whole big picture of all of this is, yes, I’m competing against Castillo. I’m competing against Betts. I’m competing against other guys. Hanley is set because of the contract that he signed. Castillo is what you would call, quote, unquote, set because he signed his contract. People are going to say Mookie and I are competing, but we’re not competing. I don’t look at it as competition. I look at it as motivation for me to be better, a motivation for him to be better, and at the end of the day, if I push him and he pushes me we’ll see what happens.

 
“I’ve been a big advocate of Mookie since Day 1. I ‘ve spoken highly of him. I learned from Day 1 that he’s a kid that wants to learn. My first day in my rehab assignment in Pawtucket, 15 minutes before the game he’s asking me questions in the most respectful way. From Day 1 I’ve been a big fan of that kid. Either I’m going to push me to be better or he’s going to push me to be better. I don’t take it in any way of disrespecting Mookie or talking down about him. I’ll never be that guy. There’s not reason to be. I think that’s the part people are going to take about it being a competition, but it’s not a competition.”

 
http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2015/02/18/meet-the-most-motivated-spring-training-arrival-of-all-time-shane-victorino/

 

[Fishy1]

I’m competing against Betts.... people are going to say Mookie and I are competing, but we’re not competing.

 
Where's mauidano to give us a close reading of this one?
 
In all seriousness, despite his aptitude for soundbites, I love Victorino's fire. I also am fully ready for him and/or Craig to miss significant time and for this to be a non-issue, because of the incredible depth in the outfield.
 

 
I suppose I should be more clear here too given your confusion.  For my purposes, I will use Hanley Ramirez as a comp given that they both signed on the same day and for roughly the same amount of AAV.   I believe that Ramirez, who is capable of getting on base at a .360 or .370 clip and having an o-swing rate of somewhere around ~30% (which is high relative to his career) should, if he performs to his historical averages, put up ABs that Red Sox fans are happy with given what they have grown accustomed to from the top Red Sox performers of the last decade plus.
 
Sandoval, on the other hand, will be a test of the aesthetic with his lower OBP (call it .340 to be generous) and, more importantly, his penchant for swinging like he was an extra at the key party scene from the Ice Storm - his o-swing of 48.1% led the MLB last season and he is second to the one and only beloved A.J. Pierzynski in that stat over the past three seasons.  
 
I guess I could have saved us both a lot of time and simply said he is a lot more free-swinging than the players the Sox fans have become accustomed to of late but where is the fun in that?

 
I think SoSH's will be fine with his free-swinging ways so long as he keeps up his elite Out of zone contact %. And sometimes he won't. And maybe with a twist on what joedokes has said, I don't think the board will be above, should he struggle, drawing the most direct line between the points of his fatness and his struggles at the plate. But let's wait and see how much Sandoval puts the sweat sauna to work in Spring Training before we conclude he's going to be tubby all year.

 

[Rovin Romine]

 
In all seriousness, despite his aptitude for soundbites, I love Victorino's fire.

 
What's his reasonable contribution if he is fully healthy?   At age 34, he could put together something like his age 32 (2013) season - say, his 5th/6th most valuable season in his career.   3-4 WAR?   Overall, I'm getting a "2013 Lackey" vibe from him.  Anything would be nice, but he could really make his presence felt.

 

[Minneapolis Millers]

O-swing  of 48%.  Wow.  How does he EVER walk??

 

[soxhop411]

Pete Abraham ‏@PeteAbe  6m6 minutes ago
Pablo Sandoval just hit a ball over the batting cages in right field. Haven't seen that happen before.

 

[C4CRVT]

#bellypower

 

[CarolinaBeerGuy]

 
Pete Abraham ‏@PeteAbe  6m6 minutes ago
Pablo Sandoval just hit a ball over the batting cages in right field. Haven't seen that happen before.
 

So, he almost hit the ball into JetBlue from the practice field? That's a bomb.

 

[nvalvo]

O-swing  of 48%.  Wow.  How does he EVER walk??

 
People try to get him to chase BS in tight spots, and he's aware enough to see what's happening and not chase.
 
A huge number of his walks are the four-pitch variety. 107/259 or 41%. For context, only 30% of (the much more patient) David Ortiz' walks came on 3-0 counts. Pedroia is at 25%. 

 

[Niastri]

Someone posted data about panda that shows he swings at fewer balls outside the strike zone as he has more balls in the count. He gets more selective the closer he gets to a walk. Should be interesting to watch

 

[tmorgan]

McCoveychonicals already has the way to judge Panda's weight with http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/2013/2/25/4007986/pablo-sandoval-fat-shape-oh-god-so-sick-of-this . We might have to add a couple more levels just to take anticipate anything CHB could come up with. We're at a 6 now, hopefully we'll manage to get down to a 2 or 1 by the end of the year.

 

[jimbobim]

http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/12349698/let-talk
 
Like the mentality ...
 
"We live surrounded by critics, so let them talk, let them criticize me as much as they want. Ultimately that makes me a better player,'' Sandoval said. "What really matters is who you are when you step on the field, and I will let my bat and my glove speak for themselves. That's the only way you can shut them up.
"Critics have said that I am lazy, that I am not working hard; that picture caught me at a bad angle. But once again, let them say whatever they want to say. I will prove who I am on the field and show Boston fans how hard I am working to be a champion with this team, too."

 

[Minneapolis Millers]

I love the "champion with this team TOO" part.

 

[joe dokes]

http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/12349698/let-talk
 
Like the mentality ...
 
"We live surrounded by critics, so let them talk, let them criticize me as much as they want. Ultimately that makes me a better player,'' Sandoval said. "What really matters is who you are when you step on the field, and I will let my bat and my glove speak for themselves. That's the only way you can shut them up.
"Critics have said that I am lazy, that I am not working hard; that picture caught me at a bad angle. But once again, let them say whatever they want to say. I will prove who I am on the field and show Boston fans how hard I am working to be a champion with this team, too."

 
 
Pedro-esque.

 

[Montana Fan]

 
 
Pedro-esque.

 
Cheeseburgers are his daddy?

 

[soxhop411]

 

[soxhop411]

Mike Lynch ‏@LynchieWCVB  15s15 seconds ago
Farrell declares Shane Victorino his starting right fielder if he is healthy

 

[Why Not Grebeck?]

 
Mike Lynch ‏@LynchieWCVB  15s15 seconds ago
Farrell declares Shane Victorino his starting right fielder if he is healthy
 

 
Oh boy. Clearly he has a better read on the personalities in the situation than we do, but I don't love the idea of Betts sitting on the bench 3-4 days a week. Could this be a precursor to sticking him in AAA and setting his FA clock back a year?

 

[Darnell's Son]

 
Oh boy. Clearly he has a better read on the personalities in the situation than we do, but I don't love the idea of Betts sitting on the bench 3-4 days a week. Could this be a precursor to sticking him in AAA and setting his FA clock back a year?

I can't see the Red Sox letting Betts sit on the bench. He would be better off getting ABs in Pawtucket.

 

[Rovin Romine]

 
Oh boy. Clearly he has a better read on the personalities in the situation than we do, but I don't love the idea of Betts sitting on the bench 3-4 days a week. Could this be a precursor to sticking him in AAA and setting his FA clock back a year?

 
You've got to re-read the last four words of that tweet.

 

[E5 Yaz]

That's what is known as keeping peace in the family. 

 

[RedOctober3829]

That's strange from Farrell. If Castillo and Betts both have good springs and Vic struggles, Farrell will look like an idiot.

 

[soxhop411]

 
http://www.overthemonster.com/2015/2/20/8077395/pablo-sandoval-hanley-ramirez-hope-youre-proud-of-yourself-fat-shamers

 

[johnnywayback]

That's strange from Farrell. If Castillo and Betts both have good springs and Vic struggles, Farrell will look like an idiot.

 
Yeah, I think part of it may be veteran ego management, but I also think it would not be difficult to have Betts play 2x a week in right, 2x a week in center, and 1x a week elsewhere.  Or, if you prefer, to have Betts start in CF and have Castillo play 4x a week.

 

[soxhop411]

Hanley Ramirez ‏@HanleyRamirez  16m16 minutes ago
Joe Kelly and I, perfecting our #PandaPose LOL @RedSox @RedSoxBeisbol #RedSoxNation #2015GonnaBeFun
 
https://twitter.com/HanleyRamirez/status/568825653492998144

 

[Minneapolis Millers]

That Hanley-tweeted pic is awesome.  This has a chance to be a fun clubhouse...

 

[nattysez]

That's strange from Farrell. If Castillo and Betts both have good springs and Vic struggles, Farrell will look like an idiot.

 
He would be an idiot to base any decisions on ST performance.  That's exactly how the Grady Sizemore disaster happened.  

 

[RedOctober3829]

 
He would be an idiot to base any decisions on ST performance.  That's exactly how the Grady Sizemore disaster happened.  

This is different though. The Sizemore decision was stupid no doubt. But, naming an off injured player the starter over a player who could be much better before the spring even starts is a bit early.

 

[Corsi]

This is different though. The Sizemore decision was stupid no doubt. But, naming an off injured player the starter over a player who could be much better before the spring even starts is a bit early.

 
These things tend to work themselves out.  Victorino is a veteran with 10 years of service time.  I don't mind Farrell placating him a bit, especially after Vic's comments yesterday.
 
Let the rookie continue to be hungry, and let Victorino go through the spring with a clear head.

 

[RedOctober3829]

 
These things tend to work themselves out.  Victorino is a veteran with 10 years of service time.  I don't mind Farrell placating him a bit, especially after Vic's comments yesterday.
 
Let the rookie continue to be hungry, and let Victorino go through the spring with a clear head.

Then what happens if they feel Betts should be the starter at the end of spring and they give him the job? Victorino doesn't sound like somebody who will take being a bench player very well. Im all for Farrell showing confidence in Victorino but it could blow up in his face.

 

[E5 Yaz]

I'd wager that Victorino is either injured or with another team by the end of Spring Training

 

[Corsi]

Then what happens if they feel Betts should be the starter at the end of spring and they give him the job? Victorino doesn't sound like somebody who will take being a bench player very well. Im all for Farrell showing confidence in Victorino but it could blow up in his face.

 
If it's clear by April that Betts should be in RF and Victorino shouldn't, then Farrell can do his job and tell Victorino he's on the bench.  And Shane can stew all he wants then, but for the time being, I'd rather his mind was right.
 
From everything I've seen/read, Shane has taken his rehab seriously and I think this is Farrell's way of rewarding that.
 
Also, if they have any visions of trading Victorino, the return is probably greater if he's not a guy ticketed for your bench in mid-February.

 

[curly2]

I think Farrell is saying what Victorinio and potential trade partners for Victorino need to hear. He'll certainly have the inside track on the job, but I don't think he's a lock.
 
At the same time, comparing Victorino and Sizemore is truly apples and oranges. Last year Sizemore had a good spring, but he hadn't been in the majors since 2011 and hadn't been good in the majors since 2009. Victorino was excellent in 2013, so a good spring is more likely to be a sign he's "back" rather than a mirage, like it was for Sizemore.

 

[joe dokes]

These things tend to work themselves out. Victorino is a veteran with 10 years of service time. I don't mind Farrell placating him a bit, especially after Vic's comments yesterday.

Let the rookie continue to be hungry, and let Victorino go through the spring with a clear head.
 
****************************************************************************************************
 
If it's clear by April that Betts should be in RF and Victorino shouldn't, then Farrell can do his job and tell Victorino he's on the bench.  And Shane can stew all he wants then, but for the time being, I'd rather his mind was right.
 
From everything I've seen/read, Shane has taken his rehab seriously and I think this is Farrell's way of rewarding that.
 
Also, if they have any visions of trading Victorino, the return is probably greater if he's not a guy ticketed for your bench in mid-February.

 
I think this is right.
 
 

Victorino doesn't sound like somebody who will take being a bench player very well.
 

 
Is he going to ben-gay Betts's jock?
 
I contrast this with Valentine and Youkilis.  Valentine was right that Youkilis was cooked.  And while he didn't say *that*, he also didn't say "Kevins been working hard and we hope and expect him to be the Sox third baseman."  He dumped on the guy on Day 1.  I think Farrell knows exactly what he's doing here and why he's doing it. There's nothing here to "blow up in his face"  Unless he cares about Ron Borges bellowing about how he "promised Bledsoe his job back."

 

[Pozo the Clown]

...I think Farrell knows exactly what he's doing here and why he's doing it. There's nothing here to "blow up in his face" 

 
Exactly!  Now, if he'd instead declared Allen Craig as his starting rightfielder, we'd really have something to post about.

 

[kieckeredinthehead]

 
http://www.overthemonster.com/2015/2/20/8077395/pablo-sandoval-hanley-ramirez-hope-youre-proud-of-yourself-fat-shamers

 
Buchholz has clearly taught Joe Kelly the awkward, mouth half-open stare that he is so good at. 

 

[Al Zarilla]

 
http://www.overthemonster.com/2015/2/20/8077395/pablo-sandoval-hanley-ramirez-hope-youre-proud-of-yourself-fat-shamers

 ...or maybe he was just slouched backwards in the same way he and his teammates are here and he looked bad because of it.
 
That's exactly what I posted about that picture earlier in the thread. Pablo is like a chameleon, except he can look many different sizes instead of colors, depending on what he's doing. Well, except he never looks skinny.

 

[Montana Fan]

I know it's just ST but I love these quotes.  The kid is only 22 and is quickly becoming one of my favorites.  It may be your typical Bull Durham BS but I like the young man.
 
Regarding playing behind Victorino:

 
“Shane Victorino is Shane Victorino,” Betts told WEEI.com on Friday. “He’s a Gold Glover. He’s won the World Series, had huge hits in the World Series. I completely understand that. That doesn’t hurt my feelings at all.”

“I have no problem being behind him, watching him go,” Betts said. “He has taught me, and he’s still teaching me, even though people are trying to make it like we have a big rivalry going on or something. I feel like we’re brothers, the way we talk. Nothing’s changed between me and him. The first time I met him, I asked him a bunch of questions, and I’m still asking him questions.

 
http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2015/02/20/mookie-betts-has-no-problem-sitting-behind-shane-victorino/

 

[Eck'sSneakyCheese]

I didn't realize Hanley was that big. I guess I haven't been paying attention. Really intrigued to see him in LF. His bat is definitely going to be a welcome addition. I'll preface this by saying I was a big Middlebrooks fan. Pablo will have to be pretty awful to not provide more production offensively and defensively than the Sox options last year. I don't know if I've been this optimistic/excited about a Sox offense since 2011. This is going to be a pretty entertaining year.

 

[Plympton91]

I'd wager that Victorino is either injured or with another team by the end of Spring Training

Also, if they have any visions of trading Victorino, the return is probably greater if he's not a guy ticketed for your bench in mid-February.

Both spot on. Trading Victorino and his whole salary almost gets them back below the luxury tax cap, doesn't it?

 

[MikeM]

 
Mike Lynch ‏@LynchieWCVB  15s15 seconds ago
Farrell declares Shane Victorino his starting right fielder if he is healthy
 

 
No big shocker. Veteran politics was always the heavy favorite to win out there. 
 
(So if healthy, he's being traded to whatever team in ST is willing to pick up the most of the $13m. Which likely ends up irking some who had him pegged as our 4th outfielder, and won't like the concept of essentially giving him away. I won't be one as it's ultimately the right thing to do imo) 

 

[Merkle's Boner]

After last season, I would feel much more comfortable heading into the season with a healthy, productive Victorino manning RF, than having to rely on multiple youth in the OF. Let Betts and Rusney battle it out for the CF job. I want one rock out there, and it ain't Hanley. I'm not expecting another 8 WAR season from Vic, but I'd take half of that.

 

[NDame616]

After last season, I would feel much more comfortable heading into the season with a healthy, productive Victorino manning RF, than having to rely on multiple youth in the OF. Let Betts and Rusney battle it out for the CF job. I want one rock out there, and it ain't Hanley. I'm not expecting another 8 WAR season from Vic, but I'd take half of that.

 
Based on the signing last season, I don't think Castillo has to battle for everything. Barring injury, he is your starting CF opening day.

 

[Merkle's Boner]

Based on the signing last season, I don't think Castillo has to battle for everything. Barring injury, he is your starting CF opening day.

I'm not buying that argument. The Sox are going to put the best team on the field, irregardless of contract. Plus, the Castillo deal is a long term contract and him not winning the starting job after his first spring training does not make it a bad deal.

I just think the Sox are going to be cautious about relying on too much youth right out of the gate this year.

 

[InsideTheParker]

 

[etakbear]

Hanley's nickname for Pedey - "Smurf". Love it. Bring me some Spring.

 

[Minneapolis Millers]

Smurf? I can't wait for Pedroia to take a grounder in practice and flip it to Hanley in LF, and then say, "Oh, wait, you're no longer playing short? My bad." This could be awesome.

 

[Al Zarilla]

Hanley's nickname for Pedey - "Smurf". Love it. Bring me some Spring.

A little too familiar this soon, or does it go back to when Hanley was in the Sox system? Also, what's blue about Pedey? Maybe we'll hear about a hotfoot.