Speier days deal with Phillies for Hembree and Workman could be close to done:
View: https://twitter.com/alexspeier/status/1296977294679040005?s=19
View: https://twitter.com/alexspeier/status/1296977294679040005?s=19
Red Sox Trade Deadline Thread
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
- Start date
Ah yes, I completely forgot about that. I still don’t think their is enough talent available to pull the trigger, and he is young enough and on a good deal to boot
Because they moved two of the better pieces out of the pen, for two pieces that will have to work themselves into roles. It's the type of deal made when overhauling a roster, not with an eye to trying to improve playoff possibilities in a bastardized season.
To me, it says there will probably be more movement. Maybe nothing that we'd consider "major," but more of bringing aboard pieces that are developmental for players who, as has been pointed out, are more costly at this stage of their careers.
Plus, the pragmatist side of e thinks they're not close to serious potential ... so I see this as a sign that they're willing to deal instead of holding out hope
We’re 9-18. The rotation is horrendous. Did any of us expect or even want the team to hold out hope? Get what value they can, without dealing actual building blocks.
I was asked a question
I answered the question
The question-asker thanked me for answering
If you want to jump in and cherry-pick the final three words of the discussion, go right ahead and pat yourself on the back
My totally uneducated guess would be the kid they got from LA in the Betts deal.
I was thinking the same thing. He's 24 and already has a half season in AA. They can punt the position next year by bringing Plawecki back and easing Wong in.
No, I realize that. Gallows humor. If SD didn’t want to include Patino in a Betts deal (never crystal clear in rumors but suggested), then they’re not trading him for Matt freakin Barnes.
FWIW, my overarching thoughts are that, absent some unlikely godfather offer, Boston should and will make deals around the edges with non-key players, replenishing the lower and mid-levels of the farm, especially with pitching. Deals like the Hembree-Workman one. Look to move guys like Mitch, JBJ, Pillar, Barnes. I don’t think even a guy like Vaz gets moved unless we’re getting a projected starting player back. JDM? That seems overly complicated, and it’s not like he’s been on fire thus far. The team will probably see more value in keeping him and betting he doesn’t opt out.
I think the Sox expect to contend again soon, as early as next year. I’m not sure how reasonable that is, but ownership has never been an abundantly patient group. The team has 2 good SPs likely to return next year, and they’ll have money to buy a handful of supporting pieces to supplement a core that is still in its prime. It’s a 2013-like approach.
Last edited:
He peaked at a 97 OPS+ three years ago and couldn't make the Giants roster this year. I don't think he has a whole lot of upside.
I understand, however, I have a real question. As players are traded away and spots on the 60 player pool are open, could not a team fill those spots with lower rung prospects who just happen to be desired by other trade partners? If so, then functionally anyone in the farm system could be traded.
But, as I mentioned this is a real question since I do not know whether that sort of movement is allowed.
Yes, it seems like they can, which is why I think many teams have open 60 man spots currently. They are making the rules up as they go, though, so who knows.
This is the right way to approach it. That cheap team option coupled with the way he's throwing the ball makes him extremely valuable. Of guys left to move, I think he has to have the most value.
He's the inverse of JD, who is expensive, playing pretty poorly and even if you wanted him around next year, he can opt out. But I have a hard time seeing him doing that given the climate and his performance.
Ken Rosenthal says that Andrew Benintendi is "an available hitter" when talking about Cleveland possibly trying to trade Mike Clevenger/Zach Plesac.
https://theathletic.com/2018340/2020/08/24/rosenthal-5-clubs-that-might-surprise-at-the-trade-deadline-more-news-and-notes/
https://theathletic.com/2018340/2020/08/24/rosenthal-5-clubs-that-might-surprise-at-the-trade-deadline-more-news-and-notes/
Yeah, but pretty clearly he’s just spitballing (and he acknowledges how bad AB has been this year). I have a hard time believing that any team sees Benintendi as a positive asset at the moment but who knows - he’s shown promise in the past so if a team thinks they’ve identified something they can work with him on maybe he could form part of a larger trade.
LOL. Cleveland calls and says we want hitting for Clevinger or Plesac...who ya got? And Boston says, "We can give you Benintendi."
Yes, he is an "available hitter" for those two. 100%.
He's a player whose shown he can be an everyday player at the top of a good lineup who comes cheap and is controllable for the next 3 years. Cleveland needs OFers and as you say may think they can fix him. They have a glut of young starting pitching so it may be a situation of "we'll trade you our problem for your problem".
I don't think teams will judge AB on those first 50 or so PA. The increase in SwStr% and K% last year is concerning, however, as he seemed to be sacrificing plate discipline for hard contact (launch angle, barrel percentage and hard hit percentage did increase significantly), yet his HR/FB rate decreased.
Without getting too deep into the weeds, I think AB is a solidly projectable 2-3 WAR player controlled for 2021 and 2022 with moderate upside. You're looking at about 5 WAR for 14 million, which is a nice look for any team in need of OF help.
Without getting too deep into the weeds, I think AB is a solidly projectable 2-3 WAR player controlled for 2021 and 2022 with moderate upside. You're looking at about 5 WAR for 14 million, which is a nice look for any team in need of OF help.
Yeah, I don't think Chaim Bloom is working from a radio caller or website poster mentality when proposing deals
I don't think the "glut" is the problem with Cleveland. Their problem is that two of their young starters happened to be on the outs with the majority of the clubhouse for their antics off the field. I think the glut only makes it slightly more palatable to move their problem without suffering too big a hit on the field (after all, they're 7-4 since booting Plesac and Clevinger).
The problem with Cleveland is that their outfield is even worse than their rotation is good, and since they seem to be able to magically create solid starting pitchers out of thin air, it makes sense for them to trade another one as they did Kluber and Bauer.
Of course it isn't. But when two of those players were literally voted off the team you could say there is a problem there.
Yup. This is a team that desperately needs a bat or two. The team’s OPS is .650, third lowest in the league. Only Franmil Reyes is north of .800 and he’s a DH. Obviously, you expect better production from JRam and Lindor but the pitching is so good that they can afford to trade some to get a better bat. Guys like Santana, Deshields, Allen, Mercado, etc. have all been horrendous.
Jeff Passan, in a trade column, on the Red Sox:
The Red Sox should shop everyone on their roster not named Xander Bogaerts, Rafael Devers and Alex Verdugo.
Not a single player who throws a pitch for the Red Sox this season beyond Darwinzon Hernandez will be with Boston beyond 2022.
With a mediocre farm system and player development more or less in neutral this season, accelerating the Red Sox's rebuild won't be easy. So whether it's now with free agents-to-be Jackie Bradley Jr. and Kevin Pillar or this winter with Christian Vazquez and Martin Perez (who has the fourth-lowest average exit velocity among starters this season), move 'em.
If you can get something for J.D. Martinez, who has another opt-out clause this winter, do it.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29730354/jeff-passan-mlb-trade-deadline-preview-stars-actually-move-which-teams-sellers
The Red Sox should shop everyone on their roster not named Xander Bogaerts, Rafael Devers and Alex Verdugo.
Not a single player who throws a pitch for the Red Sox this season beyond Darwinzon Hernandez will be with Boston beyond 2022.
With a mediocre farm system and player development more or less in neutral this season, accelerating the Red Sox's rebuild won't be easy. So whether it's now with free agents-to-be Jackie Bradley Jr. and Kevin Pillar or this winter with Christian Vazquez and Martin Perez (who has the fourth-lowest average exit velocity among starters this season), move 'em.
If you can get something for J.D. Martinez, who has another opt-out clause this winter, do it.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29730354/jeff-passan-mlb-trade-deadline-preview-stars-actually-move-which-teams-sellers
I wonder if Guillermo Heredia, who was DFA’d by the Pirates today, would slip through waivers to us. Or be included in some larger salary-dump deal with Cherington.
We have three outfielders conceivably on the block and almost no outfield depth in the upper minors. Heredia is no great shakes offensively, but he’s optionable, under control through 2022 and defensively on par with Pillar, and Bloom knows him from the Rays last year.
Heredia expected wOBA (2018-19): .309
Pillar: .313
We have three outfielders conceivably on the block and almost no outfield depth in the upper minors. Heredia is no great shakes offensively, but he’s optionable, under control through 2022 and defensively on par with Pillar, and Bloom knows him from the Rays last year.
Heredia expected wOBA (2018-19): .309
Pillar: .313
Last edited:
"Slip through waivers to us"? The only team with a worse record than Boston is...Pittsburgh, who just released him.
In that case, great, but doesn’t waiver claim priority operate by league? Not sure if anything’s changed with this season’s rules.
From that link, When a player is on waivers, other teams can submit a claim. If more than one team does, those in the same league as that player's team get first priority, starting with the club with the worst record on the day of the claim. Then, the priority moves to the other league, starting with the worst record. For example, if a National League team puts a player on waivers, the NL team with the worst record gets the first shot at him, and the last-place American League club would be right behind the top NL club.
Oh you may be right. I didn't realize that. That's kind of dumb. Why should the Dodgers get a better waiver priority than the Red Sox? Just because they're in the same league? They're doing all they can to blend the leagues together anyway.
But if them's the rules, then them's the rules, and I stand corrected.
But if them's the rules, then them's the rules, and I stand corrected.
People in general are being ridiculous about the "problem" Cleveland has. I guess the Cardinals need to trade Yadier Molina since he seems to be a much worse problem. Every team in the league has had the same problems, it's just that Cleveland was unique in outing there's… not even the players on the Marlins and Cardinals who actually did get COVID from their actions paid with any public humiliation. It's a temporary problem they'll soon move past. I was just thinking yesterday that Boston would love to get a piece of Cleveland's cheap rotation depth, but I don't think Benintendi alone gets a deal done for any of Cleveland's top six starters anymore. The Indians also aren't a organization that makes a habit of trading long-term under-priced talent for pennies on the dollar or minor PR trouble.
Not directly, and unless Boston is ponying up Devers there's no real direct trade between the two teams. But as part of three way deal? I could see the Indians preferring to turn a lottery ticket into a major leaguer (if they believe they can fix him).
It's not people that are being "ridiculous" in this case. It's his teammates (and for the record, I'm on the teammates' side). They're not being held on the alternate training site because of public perception. They're there because their teammates don't want them in the clubhouse. I think you're wrong to think that every team in the league has the same problems. If other players were going out in public in violation of team/league rules, I don't think organizations would be giving them a pass.
Bottom line is any talk of the Red Sox getting Clevinger or Plesac for Benintendi (or even Benintendi+) is wishcasting of the highest order. Even if Cleveland were desperate to be rid of them (which they aren't), the Sox would be in line with 28 other teams. No chance that Cleveland would get fleeced.
I'm an Indians fan on a Red Sox forum, so I'm familiar with what happened and what was said. I think a lot of the public reaction from the players was due to the rotation/pitching staff being a close knit group where they felt free to call out their teammates... and we'll know a lot more about where they stand in the next 48 hours, because they already announced Adam Plutko has been demoted to the bullpen, so someone needs to take his start on Wednesday (and they burned up Logan Allen, who would be the current "#6 starter" on the roster, yesterday). I'm glad they were disciplined, but after seeing countless social media posts calling for them to be suspended for the season that's simply not rational. Players on other teams have done the same or worse, and actually caught and spread the virus across their teams. Yet, not only did they escape public shame, but the cancellation of games meant they missed far fewer team games than Clevinger and Plesac.
Their teammates will forgive them sooner or later, because – bringing it back on topic – Cleveland isn't trading 40% of their rotation over this incident, and it makes no sense to dump one over it when they are both guilty of the same thing.
Their teammates will forgive them sooner or later, because – bringing it back on topic – Cleveland isn't trading 40% of their rotation over this incident, and it makes no sense to dump one over it when they are both guilty of the same thing.
Yeah, I guess Duran is close. In my mind he wasn’t ready to pencil in next year after struggling in Portland last year, but apparently he’s hitting well in the compound.
The more I play around with it, the a Pittsburgh deal makes sense to me if the Sox are taking on money, especially if Cherington has direction to clear salary.
Boston receives: Colin Moran, Guillermo Heredia, Jameson Taillon, Gregory Polanco, Felipe Vazquez*
Pittsburgh receives: Chavis, Chatham, Houck
That’s less lopsided than it may seem. A lot of dead money would change hands, including guys whose ‘20-21 salaries are higher than their AAVs (why Wil Myers fit well). That matters for teams like Pittsburgh, who furloughed a bunch of employees and are going through a full rebuild. I think the Sox can shoulder it if they don’t have to pay their share of Price’s contract this year, but I expect they’ll get clarity on that soon.
Moran would be the prize. He’s entering arb, on the cusp of a breakout and would be a good bridge to Casas. Taillon is rehabbing and under control for two more years, but had the makings of a frontline starter before cancer and two Tommy Johns. Cherington wants him to rebound with a good 2021 so he can flip his final year, but that’s a $10-15m risk that Bob Nutting might not want to take. Polanco is a clear change of scenery candidate. He makes $11.5m next year ($7m aav) with two team options and may rebound well enough to be trade bait for us at the deadline. He more likely can’t be fixed, but someone has got to play the outfield for the Sox next year. Heredia is cheap and can play all three outfield positions well. Vazquez is owed $7.5m next year ($5.5m aav) and is purely ballast, obviously wouldn’t put on the uniform.
Pittsburgh would clear about $25m of 2021 salary, get 5+ years of Chavis, a Cherington draftee, who could probably do a good Jonathan Schoop impression. Chatham, if he was ever in our plans, is redundant with Arauz likely to stick. And Houck could be a good bulk guy for them.
Pittsburgh would clear about $25m of 2021 salary, get 5+ years of Chavis, a Cherington draftee, who could probably do a good Jonathan Schoop impression. Chatham, if he was ever in our plans, is redundant with Arauz likely to stick. And Houck could be a good bulk guy for them.
*I’m not sure if Felipe Vazquez’s contract was voided or if Pittsburgh has to pay it. It’s listed that they do on Cot’s and Spotrac, so I’m going with that.
I don't get what Boston would get out of this. A guy to hold down 1B for two years until Casas is ready? Why can't that be Dalbec or, you know, Chavis? Or Moreland, for that matter? And to get him, you're giving up Chavis plus two of our top 15 prospects and you're taking on a ton of salary. In this free agent market, $25m should buy a better outfielder than Polanco and at least two starting pitchers who are more likely to contribute in 2021 than Taillon.
That's kind of what I think, too. But even though I think they should re-work his contract and keep him for the long term, if that's not Bloom's plan I imagine JD Martinez's name would put us right at the front of that line.
Money, mostly. They’re in a tear-down and that trade shaves about $25m of their books for 2021. I have no idea whether the pandemic affects Bob Nutting’s personal finances, but since he makes his money in ski resorts and newspapers, I doubt he’s making out like Bezos.
There are only two conceivable trade chips. Polanco’s value is underwater with one guaranteed year left. Vazquez no longer plays baseball. Heredia is a serviceable JAG. Ke’Bryan Hayes, a top 3B prospect, is ready to go. He pushes Moran to first, pushing Josh Bell to DH, which may not be an option in 2021. Moran, a former #6 overall pick, overhauled his swing and has absolutely mashed this year (89 PAs), but was replacement level for three years before that. Alternatively, you can ask for Bell, but he’s in a funk and has one fewer year of control than Moran.
Taillon has no trade value until he’s healthy and productive. If he rebounds in 2021, the Pirates can trade him, but it’d be one year of an oft-injured pitcher making Arb3 rates ($8-10m?) in 2022. If he doesn’t regain form, they likely won’t find a taker and will have to pay both arb years.
From Bloom’s perspective, you’re betting that either Moran’s breakout is real and/or Taillon can come back, and paying roughly $25m to find out. (Polanco’s a long shot, but who knows.) But you have to spend money for 1-2 outfielders and 1-2(?) starters next year anyway, and the upside here, to me anyway, is greater than what you’d find in FA.
Last edited:
