Red Sox Trade Deadline Thread

johnnywayback

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Since I jumped all over that Pirates proposal, here's one for you all to jump all over.

Red Sox trade C Christian Vazquez and RHP Matt Barnes to the Padres for OF Wil Myers, RHP Cal Quantrill, RHP Michel Baez, and C Luis Campusano.

It's a variation on the Myers trade we've all been thinking about since the off-season. The Padres get a late-inning bullpen arm and a solid starting catcher, both of which they control next year, as well. Plus they get to clear Myers's salary.

As for the Red Sox, we get another potential starter to throw into the bucket of "maybe one of these guys can stick in the rotation" with Nick Pivetta, plus our catcher of the future in Campusano and an exciting arm in Baez (he's probably a late-inning reliever but there's still some potential he can stick at the back of the rotation).

BaseballTradeValues.com scores it as 25.90 for the Red Sox and 24.40 for the Padres. I think San Diego might do it anyway because I don't know how many other opportunities they'd have to upgrade this year's team AND next year's team while ALLEVIATING their salary predicament. But if they balk, we could swap out Baez for someone like Ryan Weathers.
 

Seabass177

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Since I jumped all over that Pirates proposal, here's one for you all to jump all over.

Red Sox trade C Christian Vazquez and RHP Matt Barnes to the Padres for OF Wil Myers, RHP Cal Quantrill, RHP Michel Baez, and C Luis Campusano.

It's a variation on the Myers trade we've all been thinking about since the off-season. The Padres get a late-inning bullpen arm and a solid starting catcher, both of which they control next year, as well. Plus they get to clear Myers's salary.

As for the Red Sox, we get another potential starter to throw into the bucket of "maybe one of these guys can stick in the rotation" with Nick Pivetta, plus our catcher of the future in Campusano and an exciting arm in Baez (he's probably a late-inning reliever but there's still some potential he can stick at the back of the rotation).

BaseballTradeValues.com scores it as 25.90 for the Red Sox and 24.40 for the Padres. I think San Diego might do it anyway because I don't know how many other opportunities they'd have to upgrade this year's team AND next year's team while ALLEVIATING their salary predicament. But if they balk, we could swap out Baez for someone like Ryan Weathers.
The Padres say no to this immediately.

Myers is playing well, Quantrill is starting to show why he was the 8th pick in the draft 4 years ago, Campusano's a top ~50 prospect in baseball, and Baez might be better than Barnes right now. They also have Francisco Mejia, Austin Hedges, and Luis Torrens for their current catcher depth. You're looking at ~15 years of control over two former top prospects and one current top prospect for Vazquez through 2022 and Barnes through 2021.

I don't see a scenario where clearing Myers' $46M over the next two years is enough for the Padres to give up all of this young talent, particularly when Myers is actually earning his salary.
 

sean1562

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I cant imagine that the Pirates have to pay Vazquez's salary. It isn't like he is injured, he is in jail awaiting a likely lengthy prison sentence. If he is still up there on baseballref it is almost certainly an oversight of the website.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I cant imagine that the Pirates have to pay Vazquez's salary. It isn't like he is injured, he is in jail awaiting a likely lengthy prison sentence. If he is still up there on baseballref it is almost certainly an oversight of the website.
He's on the restricted list, so the Pirates aren't paying him but he's still a member of the organization until the contract runs out. They have no reason to trade him, and no team has any reason to trade for him.
 

johnnywayback

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The Padres say no to this immediately.

Myers is playing well, Quantrill is starting to show why he was the 8th pick in the draft 4 years ago, Campusano's a top ~50 prospect in baseball, and Baez might be better than Barnes right now. They also have Francisco Mejia, Austin Hedges, and Luis Torrens for their current catcher depth. You're looking at ~15 years of control over two former top prospects and one current top prospect for Vazquez through 2022 and Barnes through 2021.

I don't see a scenario where clearing Myers' $46M over the next two years is enough for the Padres to give up all of this young talent, particularly when Myers is actually earning his salary.
Maybe. But Hedges is slashing 149/216/340, Mejia is on the IL, and Torrens is a total question mark. If the Padres are going to compete this year, they need to upgrade. And you may be right that Baez is better than Barnes, but Yates and Pomeranz are hurt and they still haven't turned to Baez. Even if they did want to keep him, they need another reliever, so Barnes would have a lot of value and, as I mentioned, there are plenty of non-Baez fourth pieces that would be interesting.

I think the Padres have a lot of incentive to add to this talented and exciting but flawed team. Even if he's playing well, Myers's salary makes it hard for them to do that either now or in the off-season. If they could add two quality guys in positions of need AND free themselves from the Myers deal, I think they would have the conversation.
 

chawson

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He's on the restricted list, so the Pirates aren't paying him but he's still a member of the organization until the contract runs out. They have no reason to trade him, and no team has any reason to trade for him.
Thanks, couldn't find that info anywhere and saw a couple articles saying the union would challenge his contract from being voided. If that were the case, I'd saw it similar to when the Braves traded Hector Olivera to the Padres, who promptly cut him.

Without Vazquez involved, my speculative deal of Moran/Taillon/Heredia/Polanco for Chavis/Chatham/Houck is 22.90 of value to Pittsburgh and 25 to Boston, fwiw.

I can see a smaller version of that Padres deal going down -- Barnes and Vazquez for Morejon and Hedges, maybe.
 

amRadio

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Is there something about Adrian Morejon that I'm missing? He's very young, but has he done anything in the pros that would warrant a projection as a future major league pitcher? Genuine question, because he's young enough to be really interesting except for his statistical showing in the pros thus far. There has to be a reason the Padres called him up to the majors at 20 years old without a lot of pro experience. Hedges has been below replacement level offensively and only has two years of control at 27 years old. He's probably a back up for us at best, and soon to be an expensive-ish.

That would seem to be a disappointing return for Vaz but maybe I over value him a bit and am missing the Morejon story.
 

chawson

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Is there something about Adrian Morejon that I'm missing? He's very young, but has he done anything in the pros that would warrant a projection as a future major league pitcher? Genuine question, because he's young enough to be really interesting except for his statistical showing in the pros thus far. There has to be a reason the Padres called him up to the majors at 20 years old without a lot of pro experience. Hedges has been below replacement level offensively and only has two years of control at 27 years old. He's probably a back up for us at best, and soon to be an expensive-ish.

That would seem to be a disappointing return for Vaz but maybe I over value him a bit and am missing the Morejon story.
Scouts see Morejon as a flawed but exciting arm who sits 94-97 but maybe lacks the durability to be a consistent 5-6 inning guy. He’s still very young and tweakable, as you noted. I could see Bloom liking him in an unconventional rotation set up, like what the Rays did with Jalen Beeks, but with better stuff. Hedges is maybe the best pitch framer in baseball (#1 last year), which will be helpful with a young/bad pitching staff. Vaz has much more perceived value than Hedges, but they're more comparable players than we think.
 
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E5 Yaz

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Scouts see Morejon as a flawed but exciting arm who sits 94-97 but maybe lacks the durability to be a consistent 5-6 inning guy.
Link?

Vaz has much more perceived value than Hedges, but they're more comparable players than we think.
Why? Just because of pitch-framing? Is that enough to equal out to CV's better offense?

In short, don't just make statements such as these without supporting evidence.
 

chawson

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Link?



Why? Just because of pitch-framing? Is that enough to equal out to CV's better offense?

In short, don't just make statements such as these without supporting evidence.
I’m synthesizing readily searchable information if that’s okay with you, but here’s a link to Morejon’s Fangraphs scouting report.

Vaz is very good defensively, but Hedges had superior defensive ratings last year in 100 fewer innings, which includes the extra strikes from superior pitch framing. I personally think a lot of CV’s offensive gains last year were juiced ball-aided, but the jury is still out on that. In any case, here are the expected wOBA’s for the two in 2019 and 2020:

Vazquez: .317, .249
Hedges: .271, .297
 

chawson

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Showing your work is always better than stating things as truths w/o supporting evidence
Okay, man! But we’re not really dealing with apocryphal information here. I’m interpreting that they’re comparable players — a not wholly objective statement — from looking at their hitting and fielding statistics, particularly the advanced, under-the-hood stuff compiled at Statcast, which is linked here constantly.
 

absintheofmalaise

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Okay, man! But we’re not really dealing with apocryphal information here. I’m interpreting that they’re comparable players — a not wholly objective statement — from looking at their hitting and fielding statistics, particularly the advanced, under-the-hood stuff compiled at Statcast, which is linked here constantly.
It's best to show your work in the posts. Compare Player A with Player B in your post along with a link to the source. That will also help us understand how you reached your conclusion.
 

dynomite

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So who are we still expecting to get dealt?

- Pillar
- JBJ
- Barnes?
- Moreland?
- Martin Perez?
- JD Martinez??
- Vazquez??

Chad Finn had a quick column about whether we should trade Benintendi and said no (selling low and all that).

Over the Monster has a good podcast breakdown of the options and likely trade partners:https://www.overthemonster.com/2020/8/26/21402300/boston-red-sox-podcast-trade-deadline-partners-indians-blue-jays-padres-twins-dodgers-rays

Their argument for why Tampa fits as a trade partner makes some sense — they could really use pitching depth (Martin Perez) with all their injuries, and Bloom is obviously intimately familiar with their entire farm system. https://www.overthemonster.com/2020/8/26/21402357/boston-red-sox-trade-deadline-partner-tampa-bay-rays-chaim-bloom
 

johnnywayback

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I wouldn't trade Moreland. He clearly thrives here and we can keep him for 2021 for $3m. Casas won't be ready until late 2022 at the earliest. It makes sense.

Meanwhile, Dennis Lin reporting today that the Padres "remain in search of bullpen help, a catching upgrade and, after the loss of Tommy Pham, an outfielder with some thump."
 

grimshaw

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I wouldn't trade Moreland. He clearly thrives here and we can keep him for 2021 for $3m. Casas won't be ready until late 2022 at the earliest. It makes sense.

Meanwhile, Dennis Lin reporting today that the Padres "remain in search of bullpen help, a catching upgrade and, after the loss of Tommy Pham, an outfielder with some thump."
I'd move him in a heart beat if they got a lottery ticket or minor league arm for the pen, but I'm not sure what value he would fetch for 30 games of baseball. Chavis or minor league free agent X can play 1b next year if they are in full on rebuild.
 

The Gray Eagle

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It's not 30 games of Moreland, it's 30 games of Moreland this year (which if you're in a pennant race and need a LH hitting first baseman, that should have some value) PLUS another full season of Moreland for cheap, if you decide in the offseason that it's in your interests to have that.

The total value there could be worth parting with an interesting prospect for some teams.

Moreland, Barnes, and Perez all come with another year of control, unlike our pending free agents.
 

grimshaw

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It's not 30 games of Moreland, it's 30 games of Moreland this year (which if you're in a pennant race and need a LH hitting first baseman, that should have some value) PLUS another full season of Moreland for cheap, if you decide in the offseason that it's in your interests to have that.

The total value there could be worth parting with an interesting prospect for some teams.

Moreland, Barnes, and Perez all come with another year of control, unlike our pending free agents.
Forgot there was a second year so that changes it. In terms of talent, I don't think he'd bring back much in a normal year but I do think he has a bigger market because of teams financial situations.
 

Hee Sox Choi

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Hmm... do we have enough to get Carter Kieboom? Surprised the Nats are even thinking about trading him but he hasn't done much in 2 chances. I like him a lot.

Robert Murray, formerly of The Athletic, reports that teams "have done homework on" Carter Kieboom in anticipation of the Nationals possibly trading him.

Murray notes that it's "unclear" whether the Nats would entertain dealing Kieboom. It would make some sense, though, as they haven't been giving him consistent playing time and he's struggled when he does get opportunities. Kieboom will turn just 23 next month and is a former top prospect, so other clubs would surely have interest if Washington elects to move him for immediate help.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Hmm... do we have enough to get Carter Kieboom? Surprised the Nats are even thinking about trading him but he hasn't done much in 2 chances. I like him a lot.

Robert Murray, formerly of The Athletic, reports that teams "have done homework on" Carter Kieboom in anticipation of the Nationals possibly trading him.

Murray notes that it's "unclear" whether the Nats would entertain dealing Kieboom. It would make some sense, though, as they haven't been giving him consistent playing time and he's struggled when he does get opportunities. Kieboom will turn just 23 next month and is a former top prospect, so other clubs would surely have interest if Washington elects to move him for immediate help.
Not sure I'd classify Kieboom as a former top prospect. Baseball Prospectus had him #11 on their preseason list this year (BA had him at #15). He's played less than 30 games at the MLB level. I'd say he's still very much a top prospect. And I can't imagine the Nats are going to give up on a 23-year-old prospect who has two more option years and plays a position of need just because he's struggled a bit. At least, not without being overwhelmed by an offer. And the Red Sox are definitely not in a position to make an overwhelming or even a competitive offer for him right now, short of including Devers.
 

richgedman'sghost

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Definitely not with high profile players I agree. Not sure how robust his market would be and it’s moot because I forgot about the club option. But that adds a ton of value.
Mike Bordick got traded to the Mets for the 2000 stretch run then re signed with the O's the next year. But that's 20 years ago
 

begranter

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Not sure I'd classify Kieboom as a former top prospect. Baseball Prospectus had him #11 on their preseason list this year (BA had him at #15). He's played less than 30 games at the MLB level. I'd say he's still very much a top prospect. And I can't imagine the Nats are going to give up on a 23-year-old prospect who has two more option years and plays a position of need just because he's struggled a bit. At least, not without being overwhelmed by an offer. And the Red Sox are definitely not in a position to make an overwhelming or even a competitive offer for him right now, short of including Devers.
If the Nats are in win-now mode and the Red Sox are in full re-build, a trade built around Kieboom could work. It seems a bit counter-intuitive to go all-in on a shortened season with a lot of unknowns, but the Nats have a chance to go back-to-back and may be motivated to do so. I'm not really sure MI is really a position of need for the Nats and if they're looking for an upgrade at DH, JD Martinez could make a lot of sense. With Strasburg out for the season their 3-5 slots in the rotation could use some reinforcements so they're probably going to be looking for pitching, and well...that's not great for the Red Sox. Would they be interested in taking on the years of Eovaldi and/or Perez to fill in the back of their rotations? Which of their high-risk high-upside pitching prospects would they be willing to include and would those be the ones Bloom wants? It's admittedly unlikely because a lot of moving parts would have to line-up just right, but I don't have to squint too hard to see it.
 

sean1562

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I cant see the Nationals trading their top prospect and replacement for Anthony Rendon plus another pitching prospect for JDM, Eovaldi(who has been a thoroughly mediocre to bad pitcher outside of that one 2018 stretch with Boston), and/or Perez in a year where they lost the pitcher that carried them through the WS last season and are currently 11-17. Win now mode? They have the second to worst record in the National League. They have almost no chance at making the playoffs this season.
 

begranter

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I cant see the Nationals trading their top prospect and replacement for Anthony Rendon plus another pitching prospect for JDM, Eovaldi(who has been a thoroughly mediocre to bad pitcher outside of that one 2018 stretch with Boston), and/or Perez in a year where they lost the pitcher that carried them through the WS last season and are currently 11-17. Win now mode? They have the second to worst record in the National League. They have almost no chance at making the playoffs this season.
You're absolutely right re: their record, my mistake.
 

pdub

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I would have suggested the idea of JDM to Washington early on in the season, but after what's happened to Washington as of late with Strasburg's injury, I can't see them being in win-now mode still. Definitely if it was a regular season, but not now with the shortened season.
 

Danny_Darwin

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Mike Bordick got traded to the Mets for the 2000 stretch run then re signed with the O's the next year. But that's 20 years ago
Aroldis Chapman
Do we really need to go through this every time the Red Sox might trade someone? There are, like, five examples of this from the last thirty years of free agency. Yes, it happens, but it's really unlikely.

Alternatively, maybe we can just compile The Definitive List of Every Player Who Was Traded And Then Re-Signed With Their Original Team and pin it somewhere?
 

JBJ_HOF

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Houston also inquired on Boston’s Matt Barnes. The last-place Red Sox are another rare team that could be ripe for buyers.

The Rays have interest in Red Sox catcher Christian Vázquez, with early discussions centering around Tampa’s pitching prospects.
 

dynomite

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The Athletic reporting the Rays are interested in Christian Vazquez, and the Sox are investigating their pitching prospects. This was the potential match Over the Monster suggested a few days ago, and makes a lot of sense for both sides.

1) The Rays have the 2nd best record in the AL and especially with the Yankees injuries a real chance to make a World Series run, but their main glaring weakness is the Catcher position: Mike Zunino has a .133 average (69 OPS+) and is a career .200 hitter.

2) Vaz has two more years on his deal (one of them a club option) at only $6M for '21 and $7M for '22. He's one of my favorites, but his presence hasn't done much for the pitchers this season.

3) Meanwhile, the Rays farm system is stocked with as much pitching talent as anyone in baseball, and it almost goes without saying that Bloom knows every single one of them better than just about anyone. Don't know this site, but their writeups (from January) seem really good: https://www.prospects1500.com/al-east/tampa-bay-rays-2020-top-50-prospects/

4) Not mentioned in the rumors, but I wonder if the Sox would include Martin Perez -- the Rays also need affordable pitching depth and this could help get back a few better prospects.

Could put a dent in the Sox hopes of contending in 2021, but then again there's a huge FA class of veteran mid-level Catchers this offseason: Yadier Molina, Wilson Ramos, James McCann, Austin Romine, etc., and there's the big shiny object of JT Realmuto as well.
 

Sox Puppet

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Yeah, I don't get why the Sox are entertaining offers for Vazquez, to be honest. A great team-friendly contract for a good catcher with a rocket arm and improving bat. Sure, you could plug in a defense-first JAG to take his place, but just remember how depressing it was every time Sandy Leon came to bat in a clutch situation.

But just to go along with the thought experiment ... who would we be considering from that Tampa prospects list that might make it worth it? No way we're getting within 10 miles of Franco, probably not Brujan or McKay either. Honeywell might have been interesting, but who knows how he will respond after a missed season. Baz, or Doxakis might have some potential as pitchers, but no one else on the list really jumps out at me.
 

JBJ_HOF

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Yeah, I don't get why the Sox are entertaining offers for Vazquez, to be honest.
Maybe because all his offensive value is tied to a handful of low-quality popup home runs and the Sox just installed a humidor.
 

DeadlySplitter

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I've talked myself into trading Vazquez lately. His cheap control probably doesn't line up with our next window of contention, and his offense may really not be that good.

Glad they are exploring it this weekend, we'll see what shakes out.
 

dynomite

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Yeah, I don't get why the Sox are entertaining offers for Vazquez, to be honest. A great team-friendly contract for a good catcher with a rocket arm and improving bat. Sure, you could plug in a defense-first JAG to take his place, but just remember how depressing it was every time Sandy Leon came to bat in a clutch situation.

But just to go along with the thought experiment ... who would we be considering from that Tampa prospects list that might make it worth it? No way we're getting within 10 miles of Franco, probably not Brujan or McKay either. Honeywell might have been interesting, but who knows how he will respond after a missed season. Baz, or Doxakis might have some potential as pitchers, but no one else on the list really jumps out at me.
These are good points. I guess ultimately if the question is how to quickly restock some top tier pitching prospects in the Red Sox system, the answer is you have to give up something to get something.

Yes, Vazquez is a nice player on a great contract. But with the Sox newfound financial flexibility, that's not as much of a priority, and the 2020 Sox are SO bad (even with Vaz) that keeping him for 2021 doesn't feel essential.

As for the Rays pitching prospects, I don't know enough about them to opine intelligently about which ones to target, but again, we can be certain Chaim Bloom does.
 

RedOctober3829

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Ron Roenicke said Eovaldi isn't going to be ready to pitch on Sunday after the cramp in his calf set him back this week. I wonder if he is on the trade block. Lot of money, but a little odd that cramps would sideline someone for a week.
 

sean1562

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Honestly who would want the guy? Wasnt that contract signed with the idea he had taken some step forward? At this point he is what he is, career ERA+ of 94, throws gas but gets knocked around with some frequency. 17 mil for two more years? I think Sale will prove people wrong and anchor this rotation for a few more years but the Eovaldi signing was definitely a bad one.

Edit: We should look into signing Quintana for cheap in the offseason. At this point, he has given about the same level of production as Eovaldi has the last few years and has more upside. Realistically Nathan is a 4/5 guy on a contending team
 
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Red(s)HawksFan

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Honestly who would want the guy? Wasnt that contract signed with the idea he had taken some step forward? At this point he is what he is, career ERA+ of 94, throws gas but gets knocked around with some frequency. 17 mil for two more years? I think Sale will prove people wrong and anchor this rotation for a few more years but the Eovaldi signing was definitely a bad one.

Edit: WE should look into signing Quintana for cheap in the offseason. At this point, he has given about the same level of production as Eovaldi has the last few years and has more upside. Realistically Nathan is a 4/5 guy on a contending team
You are correct that no one else wants him right now with his contract. He can be a useful pitcher as he was in 2018, but a pitcher with a near 5 ERA that's owed $34M+ for two more years is not what any team is looking to acquire in the next three days.