- Jul 31, 2008
Yeah why not just send Pittsburgh some money rather than involving Vazquez?
The Padres say no to this immediately.Since I jumped all over that Pirates proposal, here's one for you all to jump all over.
Red Sox trade C Christian Vazquez and RHP Matt Barnes to the Padres for OF Wil Myers, RHP Cal Quantrill, RHP Michel Baez, and C Luis Campusano.
It's a variation on the Myers trade we've all been thinking about since the off-season. The Padres get a late-inning bullpen arm and a solid starting catcher, both of which they control next year, as well. Plus they get to clear Myers's salary.
As for the Red Sox, we get another potential starter to throw into the bucket of "maybe one of these guys can stick in the rotation" with Nick Pivetta, plus our catcher of the future in Campusano and an exciting arm in Baez (he's probably a late-inning reliever but there's still some potential he can stick at the back of the rotation).
BaseballTradeValues.com scores it as 25.90 for the Red Sox and 24.40 for the Padres. I think San Diego might do it anyway because I don't know how many other opportunities they'd have to upgrade this year's team AND next year's team while ALLEVIATING their salary predicament. But if they balk, we could swap out Baez for someone like Ryan Weathers.
He's on the restricted list, so the Pirates aren't paying him but he's still a member of the organization until the contract runs out. They have no reason to trade him, and no team has any reason to trade for him.I cant imagine that the Pirates have to pay Vazquez's salary. It isn't like he is injured, he is in jail awaiting a likely lengthy prison sentence. If he is still up there on baseballref it is almost certainly an oversight of the website.
Maybe. But Hedges is slashing 149/216/340, Mejia is on the IL, and Torrens is a total question mark. If the Padres are going to compete this year, they need to upgrade. And you may be right that Baez is better than Barnes, but Yates and Pomeranz are hurt and they still haven't turned to Baez. Even if they did want to keep him, they need another reliever, so Barnes would have a lot of value and, as I mentioned, there are plenty of non-Baez fourth pieces that would be interesting.The Padres say no to this immediately.
Myers is playing well, Quantrill is starting to show why he was the 8th pick in the draft 4 years ago, Campusano's a top ~50 prospect in baseball, and Baez might be better than Barnes right now. They also have Francisco Mejia, Austin Hedges, and Luis Torrens for their current catcher depth. You're looking at ~15 years of control over two former top prospects and one current top prospect for Vazquez through 2022 and Barnes through 2021.
I don't see a scenario where clearing Myers' $46M over the next two years is enough for the Padres to give up all of this young talent, particularly when Myers is actually earning his salary.
Thanks, couldn't find that info anywhere and saw a couple articles saying the union would challenge his contract from being voided. If that were the case, I'd saw it similar to when the Braves traded Hector Olivera to the Padres, who promptly cut him.He's on the restricted list, so the Pirates aren't paying him but he's still a member of the organization until the contract runs out. They have no reason to trade him, and no team has any reason to trade for him.
Scouts see Morejon as a flawed but exciting arm who sits 94-97 but maybe lacks the durability to be a consistent 5-6 inning guy. He’s still very young and tweakable, as you noted. I could see Bloom liking him in an unconventional rotation set up, like what the Rays did with Jalen Beeks, but with better stuff. Hedges is maybe the best pitch framer in baseball (#1 last year), which will be helpful with a young/bad pitching staff. Vaz has much more perceived value than Hedges, but they're more comparable players than we think.Is there something about Adrian Morejon that I'm missing? He's very young, but has he done anything in the pros that would warrant a projection as a future major league pitcher? Genuine question, because he's young enough to be really interesting except for his statistical showing in the pros thus far. There has to be a reason the Padres called him up to the majors at 20 years old without a lot of pro experience. Hedges has been below replacement level offensively and only has two years of control at 27 years old. He's probably a back up for us at best, and soon to be an expensive-ish.
That would seem to be a disappointing return for Vaz but maybe I over value him a bit and am missing the Morejon story.
Link?Scouts see Morejon as a flawed but exciting arm who sits 94-97 but maybe lacks the durability to be a consistent 5-6 inning guy.
Why? Just because of pitch-framing? Is that enough to equal out to CV's better offense?Vaz has much more perceived value than Hedges, but they're more comparable players than we think.
I’m synthesizing readily searchable information if that’s okay with you, but here’s a link to Morejon’s Fangraphs scouting report.Link?
Why? Just because of pitch-framing? Is that enough to equal out to CV's better offense?
In short, don't just make statements such as these without supporting evidence.
Okay, man! But we’re not really dealing with apocryphal information here. I’m interpreting that they’re comparable players — a not wholly objective statement — from looking at their hitting and fielding statistics, particularly the advanced, under-the-hood stuff compiled at Statcast, which is linked here constantly.Showing your work is always better than stating things as truths w/o supporting evidence
It's best to show your work in the posts. Compare Player A with Player B in your post along with a link to the source. That will also help us understand how you reached your conclusion.Okay, man! But we’re not really dealing with apocryphal information here. I’m interpreting that they’re comparable players — a not wholly objective statement — from looking at their hitting and fielding statistics, particularly the advanced, under-the-hood stuff compiled at Statcast, which is linked here constantly.
Definitely not with high profile players I agree. Not sure how robust his market would be and it’s moot because I forgot about the club option. But that adds a ton of value.That always works (thinking of the 10,000 posts here about Mookie)
Does it ever work other than for the MFY?
I'd move him in a heart beat if they got a lottery ticket or minor league arm for the pen, but I'm not sure what value he would fetch for 30 games of baseball. Chavis or minor league free agent X can play 1b next year if they are in full on rebuild.I wouldn't trade Moreland. He clearly thrives here and we can keep him for 2021 for $3m. Casas won't be ready until late 2022 at the earliest. It makes sense.
Meanwhile, Dennis Lin reporting today that the Padres "remain in search of bullpen help, a catching upgrade and, after the loss of Tommy Pham, an outfielder with some thump."
Forgot there was a second year so that changes it. In terms of talent, I don't think he'd bring back much in a normal year but I do think he has a bigger market because of teams financial situations.It's not 30 games of Moreland, it's 30 games of Moreland this year (which if you're in a pennant race and need a LH hitting first baseman, that should have some value) PLUS another full season of Moreland for cheap, if you decide in the offseason that it's in your interests to have that.
The total value there could be worth parting with an interesting prospect for some teams.
Moreland, Barnes, and Perez all come with another year of control, unlike our pending free agents.
Not sure I'd classify Kieboom as a former top prospect. Baseball Prospectus had him #11 on their preseason list this year (BA had him at #15). He's played less than 30 games at the MLB level. I'd say he's still very much a top prospect. And I can't imagine the Nats are going to give up on a 23-year-old prospect who has two more option years and plays a position of need just because he's struggled a bit. At least, not without being overwhelmed by an offer. And the Red Sox are definitely not in a position to make an overwhelming or even a competitive offer for him right now, short of including Devers.Hmm... do we have enough to get Carter Kieboom? Surprised the Nats are even thinking about trading him but he hasn't done much in 2 chances. I like him a lot.
Robert Murray, formerly of The Athletic, reports that teams "have done homework on" Carter Kieboom in anticipation of the Nationals possibly trading him.
Murray notes that it's "unclear" whether the Nats would entertain dealing Kieboom. It would make some sense, though, as they haven't been giving him consistent playing time and he's struggled when he does get opportunities. Kieboom will turn just 23 next month and is a former top prospect, so other clubs would surely have interest if Washington elects to move him for immediate help.
Mike Bordick got traded to the Mets for the 2000 stretch run then re signed with the O's the next year. But that's 20 years agoDefinitely not with high profile players I agree. Not sure how robust his market would be and it’s moot because I forgot about the club option. But that adds a ton of value.
If the Nats are in win-now mode and the Red Sox are in full re-build, a trade built around Kieboom could work. It seems a bit counter-intuitive to go all-in on a shortened season with a lot of unknowns, but the Nats have a chance to go back-to-back and may be motivated to do so. I'm not really sure MI is really a position of need for the Nats and if they're looking for an upgrade at DH, JD Martinez could make a lot of sense. With Strasburg out for the season their 3-5 slots in the rotation could use some reinforcements so they're probably going to be looking for pitching, and well...that's not great for the Red Sox. Would they be interested in taking on the years of Eovaldi and/or Perez to fill in the back of their rotations? Which of their high-risk high-upside pitching prospects would they be willing to include and would those be the ones Bloom wants? It's admittedly unlikely because a lot of moving parts would have to line-up just right, but I don't have to squint too hard to see it.Not sure I'd classify Kieboom as a former top prospect. Baseball Prospectus had him #11 on their preseason list this year (BA had him at #15). He's played less than 30 games at the MLB level. I'd say he's still very much a top prospect. And I can't imagine the Nats are going to give up on a 23-year-old prospect who has two more option years and plays a position of need just because he's struggled a bit. At least, not without being overwhelmed by an offer. And the Red Sox are definitely not in a position to make an overwhelming or even a competitive offer for him right now, short of including Devers.
You're absolutely right re: their record, my mistake.I cant see the Nationals trading their top prospect and replacement for Anthony Rendon plus another pitching prospect for JDM, Eovaldi(who has been a thoroughly mediocre to bad pitcher outside of that one 2018 stretch with Boston), and/or Perez in a year where they lost the pitcher that carried them through the WS last season and are currently 11-17. Win now mode? They have the second to worst record in the National League. They have almost no chance at making the playoffs this season.
Mike Bordick got traded to the Mets for the 2000 stretch run then re signed with the O's the next year. But that's 20 years ago
Do we really need to go through this every time the Red Sox might trade someone? There are, like, five examples of this from the last thirty years of free agency. Yes, it happens, but it's really unlikely.Aroldis Chapman
Houston also inquired on Boston’s Matt Barnes. The last-place Red Sox are another rare team that could be ripe for buyers.
The Rays have interest in Red Sox catcher Christian Vázquez, with early discussions centering around Tampa’s pitching prospects.
These are good points. I guess ultimately if the question is how to quickly restock some top tier pitching prospects in the Red Sox system, the answer is you have to give up something to get something.Yeah, I don't get why the Sox are entertaining offers for Vazquez, to be honest. A great team-friendly contract for a good catcher with a rocket arm and improving bat. Sure, you could plug in a defense-first JAG to take his place, but just remember how depressing it was every time Sandy Leon came to bat in a clutch situation.
But just to go along with the thought experiment ... who would we be considering from that Tampa prospects list that might make it worth it? No way we're getting within 10 miles of Franco, probably not Brujan or McKay either. Honeywell might have been interesting, but who knows how he will respond after a missed season. Baz, or Doxakis might have some potential as pitchers, but no one else on the list really jumps out at me.
You are correct that no one else wants him right now with his contract. He can be a useful pitcher as he was in 2018, but a pitcher with a near 5 ERA that's owed $34M+ for two more years is not what any team is looking to acquire in the next three days.Honestly who would want the guy? Wasnt that contract signed with the idea he had taken some step forward? At this point he is what he is, career ERA+ of 94, throws gas but gets knocked around with some frequency. 17 mil for two more years? I think Sale will prove people wrong and anchor this rotation for a few more years but the Eovaldi signing was definitely a bad one.
Edit: WE should look into signing Quintana for cheap in the offseason. At this point, he has given about the same level of production as Eovaldi has the last few years and has more upside. Realistically Nathan is a 4/5 guy on a contending team