Report: A-Rod banned through 2014?

ivanvamp

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So the Tony Clark and the MLBPA is pissed at A-Rod too.  This guy has not a friend in the world.  He is going nuclear.  This will not end well for anyone.  There will be collateral damage.  And I couldn't be happier to watch this happen to him and the MFY's.  
 
I'm fine with ARod and the Yankees having a total circus over this.  But if this thing really does go nuclear, it could impact not just the Yankees - all kinds of names might come out, including some of our beloved Red Sox.  This could hit pretty much everyone.
 

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Rovin Romine said:
 
Nice ruling and good reasoning.  I'd also recommend everyone read the actual arbitrator's decision (skip to the end of the document.)
 
Some points:
  • Basically, MLB seemed to rely on Bosch, plus hundreds of blackberry texts, plus phone call records, plus Bosch certifying the copies of the notebooks were in fact his.   So while Bosch is a weak witness, the texts, calls and notes give him a ton of credibility. 
  • ARod's team wanted to smear Bosch but were basically shut down (the arbitrator acknowledged Bosch was a dealer in illegal drugs, but, basically, any person who testifies to providing illegal PEDs to an athlete falls into that category).
  • ARod did not testify in the hearing at all.  There was no "alternate scenario" put forward to explain the facts. 
 
As to the articles that say this is a hollow victory and everyone's hands are dirty and so forth:
a) no one is proposing a better PED policy
b) when the people involved in the situation are scumbags, scumbags will be testifying. That's kind of how it works. 
I thought that the ruling regarding obstruction was incredibly weak. I don't think there's any reasonable question about whether A-Rod used PEDs.
 

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ivanvamp said:
 
I'm fine with ARod and the Yankees having a total circus over this.  But if this thing really does go nuclear, it could impact not just the Yankees - all kinds of names might come out, including some of our beloved Red Sox.  This could hit pretty much everyone.
 
I'm not sure how that would work.  If going after players, A-Rod would basically have to admit to other violations/wrongdoings.  What would he say - "David Ortiz and I shoot up testosterone every weekend at my place?"  Otherwise he's in the Jose Canseco finger-pointing box.  Except he has money and will be sued for slander/libel.  
 
If going after MLB clubs, he has a similar problem.  
 
I think if there was a smoking gun indicating league/ownership/union involvement in ARod's (or anyone else's) PED use, we'd have seen or heard of it by now. 
 

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joe dokes said:
 
Not my area of expertise, but almost all federal lawsuits trying to overturn arbitration decisions that come about as a result of Union collective bargaining include a claim agiant the Union for failing to do its job. I'm not sure if its a prerequisite to such a suit because the individual's first recourse is suposed to be his Union, or if its something else, but i wouldn't read too much into the inclusion of the MLBPA into THE federal suit. (Of course there may be a real divide between ARod and the Union, but that's a different issue).
 
As an analogy, perhaps its similar to death row criminals always citing "ineffectiveness of counsel" on appeal to get off death row.     Not perfect comparison, though (ARod's life not at stake, he could afford lawyer of his choosing, etc.).   
 

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So Boras is just deflecting the attention away from his players that use.  Basically saying that going after dirty players solves part of the problem, but not all of it.  I agree, however, its impossible for MLB to go after the suppliers, that works from the top down and if giving Bosch compensation and protection for his evidence was needed to get the games dirtiest player, it was worth it.
 
As RR said, when you prosecute scumbags, you get scumbags as witnesses.  Doesn't meant they aren't telling the truth.
 

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Myt1 said:
I thought that the ruling regarding obstruction was incredibly weak. I don't think there's any reasonable question about whether A-Rod used PEDs.
 
I read it that portion (page 26) as essentially saying they thought there might be more there, but settled on two obvious incidents - ARod issuing public statements and ARod trying to tamper with Bosch.  I think it's very believable that ARod tried to tamper with Bosch, although I'm not sure that a public statement by ARod saying he didn't know Bosch was "obstruction" - it was clearly a lie, but did it impede MLB?
 
In any event it seems the arbitrator didn't view the tampering as carrying much weight in the ultimate penalty.   I don't think it leaves anything open re: an abuse of discretion or a disregard of law on the panel's part. 
 

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@sportswatch: Joe Tacopina told @ESPN_Colin he did not want to name other players accused of PED use, "but some of them are God-like in Boston right now."


..........
 

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RedOctober3829 said:
@sportswatch: Joe Tacopina told @ESPN_Colin he did not want to name other players accused of PED use, "but some of them are God-like in Boston right now."
 
Accused by just who exactly?  ARod?  Joe Tacopina?
 

terrisus

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RedOctober3829 said:
@sportswatch: Joe Tacopina told @ESPN_Colin he did not want to name other players accused of PED use, "but some of them are God-like in Boston right now."
 
"Other" PED users?
The use of the word "Other" would imply that Rodriguez was using.
 
EDIT: Although he just says "accused of," not who actually did use. So, umm... Big deal, we know of plenty of people who have been "accused of" PED use.
 

EvilEmpire

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I'm sure he's talking about Papi, who of course has been linked to PEDs before.  Whether or not he is just throwing old allegations out there or wants people to think that ARod has/knows of new evidence...who knows.
 

EvilEmpire

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Yeah.  Just about any shred of support or respect ARod may have had left, from anyone, is starting to swirl down the drain.  Except for Cousin Yuri.  And Sampo. 
 

Jnai

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At some point, A-Rod just directly starts ratting on people, right? Salt the earth policy here?
 

I am an Idiot

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Rovin Romine said:
 
Accused by just who exactly?  ARod?  Joe Tacopina?
 
Seriously, though, look at the definition. The cut. The massive biceps. The male pattern baldness.
 

 
I agree, if A-Rod is going down, he's going down swinging. I wouldn't put it past him to go the salt-the-earth route, as Jnai said. 
 

EvilEmpire

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If he had any sense of decency or respect for friends and peers, no.  So yeah, now I'm sort of expecting full-on book and Oprah treatment.  What a despicable man.  Even if he doesn't go full scorched earth, clearly, he's told his lawyers some things.
 

Granite Sox

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RedOctober3829 said:
@sportswatch: Joe Tacopina told @ESPN_Colin he did not want to name other players accused of PED use, "but some of them are God-like in Boston right now."
 
A day or two after the World Series, Cowherd came straight out and said Papi was a current user because he performed so well during the WS and no one who is clean does that well at his age (conveniently forgetting Papi's low .200's BA during the ALCS).
 
Cowherd is trolling for reaction to one of his idiotic and ignorant "hot takes".  Tacopina is just his latest stooge.
 

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I am an Idiot said:
 
Seriously, though, look at the definition. The cut. The massive biceps. The male pattern baldness.
 

 
 
Just imagine what he'd look like if he wasn't on PEDs, yeah?
 
Think about it.
 

Rovin Romine

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Average Reds said:
Ortiz is one of the few players who was still friendly with A Rod at the end of last year. Guess that's over.
 
Right.  This makes it even weirder.  Right know A Rod should know he's toast and be trying to marshall what friends he has if he's concerned about the legacy.  
 
Ortiz isn't the best PED steroid candidate anyway - he's *always* had the raw power and he does not play the field.  So, opposed to a position player, he less likely to benefit from a) increased muscle mass and b) increased muscular durability/ability to work out/muscular recovery.  I'm sure PED use makes any season long grind easier, but Ortiz as an older contemporary "pure DH" does not seem to be that much of an outlier (given contemporary nutrition/weight training/etc.).   Even with his good performance, Ortiz goes through his injured/ineffective periods like every older player. 
 

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Rovin Romine said:
Ortiz isn't the best PED steroid candidate anyway - he's *always* had the raw power and he does not play the field.  So, opposed to a position player, he less likely to benefit from a) increased muscle mass and b) increased muscular durability/ability to work out/muscular recovery.  I'm sure PED use makes any season long grind easier, but Ortiz as an older contemporary "pure DH" does not seem to be that much of an outlier (given contemporary nutrition/weight training/etc.).   Even with his good performance, Ortiz goes through his injured/ineffective periods like every older player. 
Regardless of whether or not Ortiz would gain much value from taking PEDs, he is a great candidate for ARod's lawyer to link to PEDs because a) he is tremendously popular, and b) he allegedly failed a drug test in 2003. The PED taint has been on him long before this, no?
 

E5 Yaz

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Jnai said:
At some point, A-Rod just directly starts ratting on people, right? Salt the earth policy here?
 
Absolutely. Charges all around. Wouldn't be surprised if he tossed Ken Griffey Jr under the bus.
 
The question, though, is whether ARod has any sort of credibility with those hearing his accusations 
 

Average Reds

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EvilEmpire said:
Regardless of whether or not Ortiz would gain much value from taking PEDs, he is a great candidate for ARod's lawyer to link to PEDs because a) he is tremendously popular, and b) he allegedly failed a drug test in 2003. The PED taint has been on him long before this, no?
 
What makes it an astounding choice is that he's trashing a guy who was one of the few players willing to say anything nice about A-Rod over the last year.  If this is how he's going to play it, he'll end up wishing he was banned for life, because if/when he gets back he's going to have a bunch of games where he relives Brian Daubach's experience against the Devil Rays back in 2000.
 

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EvilEmpire said:
Regardless of whether or not Ortiz would gain much value from taking PEDs, he is a great candidate for ARod's lawyer to link to PEDs because a) he is tremendously popular, and b) he allegedly failed a drug test in 2003. The PED taint has been on him long before this, no?
 
Very true in a vacuum.  I don't remember when the '03 test result was leaked, but there was some noise after that which died down.  I think it was an "ambiguous result," or something like it.  More recently, Shank tried to turn Ortiz into his whipping boy and failed.  (Somebody should audit Shank's career - there's always one minority player selected per season for his special attention.)  
 
It's still a stupid and classless move on ARod's part.  No one is going to to stick up for a guy who turns and bites his current supporters.  
 

Euclis20

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Saints Rest said:
Has there ever been a player banned for an entire season by the MLB? By any major sport? And if so, did that player come back to a 3-year guaranteed contract worth millions of dollars?

The 2014 ST circus will be one thing; the 2015 ST and season opening will be something else (assuming ARod is wearing pinstripes -- or any MLB uniform, for that matter, in 2015).
 
A couple NBA players come to mind:
 
-Latrell Sprewell chocked his coach in practice a month into the season in 1997.  He was initially suspended for a full year (reduced on appeal to the remaining 80% of that season), and though his contract with the warriors was voided, he went on to have a relatively successful 6-7 years with the Knicks and Twolves.
-Ron Artest was suspended for the rest of the regular season and postseason (ended up being 86 games) for his role in the Palace Brawl in 2004.  He actually requested a trade from Indy following the season (I think they would have been happy to keep him), and remained an effective player for another 8-9 years.
 

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Average Reds said:
 
What makes it an astounding choice is that he's trashing a guy who was one of the few players willing to say anything nice about A-Rod over the last year.  If this is how he's going to play it, he'll end up wishing he was banned for life, because if/when he gets back he's going to have a bunch of games where he relives Brian Daubach's experience against the Devil Rays back in 2000.
Totally agree. I almost wonder if it is a subtle indicator that ARod doesn't expect to ever play again. I say almost because that would assume ARod has a shred of introspection or self-awareness. I don't think he does.
 

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I'm beginning to feel sorry for A-Rod.
 
Look, the guy is obviously incredibly insecure - for whatever reason, probably dating back a long way. 
 
He's been terribly served by the people around him, which is partly of function of being filthy rich. My guess is that his merry band of lawyers and PR folks are now just taking him for a ride and giving him terrible advice that will line their pockets but lead to nothing but more pain for Slappy.
 
The whole PED thing is sad for baseball. Everyone on this board knows that in order to get through a 160+ game grind baseball has for many decades looked the other way when it came to amphetamines and other more innocent drugs, and that at some point things started to swing over to muscle building, endurance and other more exotic chemicals. I, for one, don't know if i could have kept myself away from those if I thought others were doing it and I'd never get caught. I still see a difference between a drug that gets you through the season versus drugs that improve performance and/or healing - leading to mega paydays.
 
Slappy's kind of sad right now. He's never had good judgment and I wonder if he'll ever get over some of his inner demons. He should have spent money on psychiatrists instead of lawyers. 
 

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I think if we can believe Jose Canseco then we can believe Slappy.
 
Canseco should get a Pulitzer, in retrospect. Instead all he got was scorn and abuse for delivering a message nobody wanted to hear.
 

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Reverend said:
Seriously, though, look at the definition. The cut. The massive biceps. The male pattern baldness.



I agree, if A-Rod is going down, he's going down swinging. I wouldn't put it past him to go the salt-the-earth route, as Jnai said.
Just imagine what he'd look like if he wasn't on PEDs, yeah?
 
Think about it.
 

Average Reds

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Reverend said:
 
Canseco should get a Pulitzer, in retrospect. Instead all he got was scorn and abuse for delivering a message nobody wanted to hear.
 
Before we go and anoint Canseco as the hero of the steroid era, let's remember that he supposedly tried to extort Magglio Ordonez with the promise that he would name him as a "clean" player if Ordonez invested in a film project that Canseco was pushing.
 
While he deserves credit for blowing the lid off the steroid era, there are plenty of valid reasons to doubt his credibility and/or heap scorn on him.  The guy's a menace, plain and simple.
 

terrisus

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Average Reds said:
 
Before we go and anoint Canseco as the hero of the steroid era, let's remember that he supposedly tried to extort Magglio Ordonez with the promise that he would name him as a "clean" player if Ordonez invested in a film project that Canseco was pushing.
 
While he deserves credit for blowing the lid off the steroid era, there are plenty of valid reasons to doubt his credibility and/or heap scorn on him.  The guy's a menace, plain and simple.
 
I hear he throws pretty great pool parties though.
 

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Rovin Romine said:
 
I read it that portion (page 26) as essentially saying they thought there might be more there, but settled on two obvious incidents - ARod issuing public statements and ARod trying to tamper with Bosch.  I think it's very believable that ARod tried to tamper with Bosch, although I'm not sure that a public statement by ARod saying he didn't know Bosch was "obstruction" - it was clearly a lie, but did it impede MLB?
 
In any event it seems the arbitrator didn't view the tampering as carrying much weight in the ultimate penalty.   I don't think it leaves anything open re: an abuse of discretion or a disregard of law on the panel's part. 
A-Rod's own statement was a parenthetical.  The "two" incidents are influencing Bosch and then attempting to get Bosch to sign an affidavit that comported with his public statements.  :unsure:
 

Rovin Romine

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Myt1 said:
A-Rod's own statement was a parenthetical.  The "two" incidents are influencing Bosch and then attempting to get Bosch to sign an affidavit that comported with his public statements.  :unsure:
 
I think you're correct.  1 is inducing Bosch to make a public statement, and 2 is inducing Bosch to sign a false affidavit.  
 
It seems like they just wanted to find something clear cut to justify the "obstruction" allegation, rather than wade into the really dirty water.   Presumably existence of the statement and the affidavit are both verifiable facts.  Easier to hang  your hat on that than vague promises to ship Bosch off to Columbia for the duration (which is clearly obstruction in a way that I'm not sure a false public statement is.) 
 
I don't get the stopping short re: the more serious allegations of obstruction.  Particularly the idea that they wouldn't matter in the final analysis. I'd think that a clear finding that a player under investigation tried to fly witnesses out of the country would result in a greater penalty.  
 

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Rovin Romine said:
I think you're correct.  1 is inducing Bosch to make a public statement, and 2 is inducing Bosch to sign a false affidavit.  
 
It seems like they just wanted to find something clear cut to justify the "obstruction" allegation, rather than wade into the really dirty water.   Presumably existence of the statement and the affidavit are both verifiable facts.  Easier to hang  your hat on that than vague promises to ship Bosch off to Columbia for the duration (which is clearly obstruction in a way that I'm not sure a false public statement is.) 
 
I don't get the stopping short re: the more serious allegations of obstruction.  Particularly the idea that they wouldn't matter in the final analysis. I'd think that a clear finding that a player under investigation tried to fly witnesses out of the country would result in a greater penalty.  
Agreed. That sort of strangeness immediately puts my antennae up. I would find bad facts regarding this violation far more compelling than the "multiple" uses and "not a failed test" gymnastics.

These sections of the CBA just aren't good contract language. Haven't waded into the federal complaint yet, but didn't the MLBPA concede to MLB's interpretation of how they apply?
 

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A-Rod's camp filed the lawsuit against MLB and MLBPA seeking an injuction that could potentially overturn his record 162-game suspension. The "witch hunt" lawsuit was filed last year and is a separate matter and would not affect the suspension.
 
Rodriguez can still refile his suit and continue seeking an injunction, or he could simply stop the legal battle and accept the suspension.
 
Link
 

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Insert obligatory "I just want this to be over with, I'm going to train hard and want to win another Championship with the New York Yankees." 
 

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Today was the deadline for A-Rod's side to respond to the petitions by MLB and the MLBPA to dismiss the case. Rather than actually respond, he punted.
 

Rovin Romine

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It's odd, basically because the lawsuits were so weak to begin with.   Did A-Rod finally come to his senses?  Were these just "P.R." filings which were seen as incredibly weak and flawed at the time they were filed?  If yes, why go through arb at all instead of negotiating and accepting a suspension?  Or why not negotiate mid-arb when A-Rod knew which way the wind was blowing?  He could have avoided the arbitrator's report coming out that way.   
 
Doubt we'll ever know, but it's hard to see how A-Rod's team could have done a worse job.  (Not with the individual bits, but the overall strategy.)  
 

terrisus

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soxhop411 said:
 
Jim Baumbach ‏@jimbaumbach  4m
A-Rod lawyer Joe Tacopina tells @newsdaymarcus that A-Rod is in fact dropping suits and is accepting his suspension.
 
So thats the end of that.. wonder what caused him to drop it
 
 
 
Hoplite said:
 
People actually expected him to testify under oath? I thought it was pretty obvious that these lawsuits were a farce.
 
Yeah, have a feeling it's because he knew he couldn't testify under oath about it and that going through with it would just make him look even worse.
So, not really surprised he dropped it - just surprised he kept up the charade for so long.