Report: A-Rod banned through 2014?

Average Reds

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A decision that MLB would be happy with was something of a forgone conclusion after A-Rod's walkout, but cutting the suspension to exactly one year makes me shake my head.  Not that I don't understand the rationale for that length - the end date coincides with the original suspension.  But it's such a convenient number for the Yanks and MLB that the optics are poor, to say the least.
 
On to the court case!!
 

glennhoffmania

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Not to beat the rotting corpse of a horse, but it's total bullshit that his cap number will now be zero.  They benefited from his cheating in the form of enhanced production until he got caught, and now they suffer no consequences at all.  
 

glennhoffmania

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Sampo Gida said:
 
What exactly was MLB's settlement offer?  I seem to remember they went from lifetime ban and offered 211 games, he did not take it and they went with 211 anyways since Bud realized it probably would not hold up in arbitration. 
 
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/report-rod-could-banned-life-turns-down-mlb-204052447.html.
 
Arods not in a position to accept anything. Whatever the suspension is that is what it is.  Arod can only choose whether to fight it or not.  While he does have quite a bit of money, legal costs are pretty expensive.  211 games costs him over 30 million in salary.  65 games costs about 20 million less.  Spending 20 million to save 10 million makes less sense than spending 20 million to save 30 million.
 
People plea guilty to crimes they are innocent of.  Have to weigh the odds of getting off and the legal costs against what you lose by accepting the sentence on the table.
 
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/topic/78707-report-a-rod-banned-through-2014/?p=4894612
 

nattysez

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glennhoffmania said:
Not to beat the rotting corpse of a horse, but it's total bullshit that his cap number will now be zero.  They benefited from his cheating in the form of enhanced production until he got caught, and now they suffer no consequences at all.  
 
Joel Sherman claims that Slappy counts $3mm against the cap because it's not an all-year suspension, but he's the only one I've seen say that thus far.
 
https://twitter.com/Joelsherman1/status/422047220951556096
 

terrisus

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nattysez said:
 
Joel Sherman claims that Slappy counts $3mm against the cap because it's not an all-year suspension, but he's the only one I've seen say that thus far.
 
https://twitter.com/Joelsherman1/status/422047220951556096
 
I believe that reasoning is incorrect, and that the $3 million is due to his signing bonus, which is spread out over a set number of years, regardless of if he is playing or suspended or whatever.
 

terrisus

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Also, another interesting quote from the ESPN article
 
 
"This injustice is MLB's first step toward abolishing guaranteed contracts in the 2016 bargaining round, instituting lifetime bans for single violations of drug policy, and further insulating its corrupt investigative program from any variety defense by accused players, or any variety of objective review."
 

EvilEmpire

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Good news.  Hopefully nothing will come of the injunction and the Yankees can move on with the rest of their off-season moves.
 

terrisus

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Average Reds said:
A decision that MLB would be happy with was something of a forgone conclusion after A-Rod's walkout, but cutting the suspension to exactly one year makes me shake my head.  Not that I don't understand the rationale for that length - the end date coincides with the original suspension.  But it's such a convenient number for the Yanks and MLB that the optics are poor, to say the least.
 
On to the court case!!
 
Yeah, I'm curious as to if any reasons will be given for reducing the suspension. It's not like he did anything to help his case.
 
 
genivive said:
Yankees completely off the hook?  Sucks
 
 
glennhoffmania said:
Not to beat the rotting corpse of a horse, but it's total bullshit that his cap number will now be zero.  They benefited from his cheating in the form of enhanced production until he got caught, and now they suffer no consequences at all.  
 
And, these can't be said enough. While it's great to enjoy all the schadenfreude, it's really disappointing all the money this is saving the Yankees.
Ah well, he'll be back on the books for next year (and the year after, and the year after...)
 

Doctor G

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Average Reds said:
A decision that MLB would be happy with was something of a forgone conclusion after A-Rod's walkout, but cutting the suspension to exactly one year makes me shake my head.  Not that I don't understand the rationale for that length - the end date coincides with the original suspension.  But it's such a convenient number for the Yanks and MLB that the optics are poor, to say the least.
 
On to the court case!!
On to the book which might be  a more intimidating prospect for MLB and the Yankees. 
 

ivanvamp

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Jul 18, 2005
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glennhoffmania said:
Not to beat the rotting corpse of a horse, but it's total bullshit that his cap number will now be zero.  They benefited from his cheating in the form of enhanced production until he got caught, and now they suffer no consequences at all.  
 
If you don't count the fact that they lose ARod, the player, for the entire season.  For all his warts, he's still an above-average hitter.  Last two seasons:
 
619 ab, 25 hr, 75 rbi, 111 ops+, 2.6 bWAR
 
Not great, but probably better than what they have to replace him.
 

terrisus

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ivanvamp said:
 
If you don't count the fact that they lose ARod, the player, for the entire season.  For all his warts, he's still an above-average hitter.  Last two seasons:
 
619 ab, 25 hr, 75 rbi, 111 ops+, 2.6 bWAR
 
Not great, but probably better than what they have to replace him.
 
For $25 million, I'm sure they can figure out someone to replace him who's better than that (if they decided to spend what he would have earned, anyway).
Too bad for them that Kevin Youkilis is in Japan.
 

JimD

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I agree with this column:
 
WSJ's Matthew Futterman - Why Baseball's Victory is a Pyrrhic One
 
 
[SIZE=10pt]There's no point in feeling sorry for A-Rod. No matter if anyone believes his denials—he issued another one Saturday—he has made nearly $350 million playing baseball and doesn't have to give anything back. Even if the courts uphold his suspension, he may collect another $61 million for the final three years of his contract, which runs through 2017. MLB also alleges he tried to hoard documents and impede its investigation—charges that Rodriguez has denied.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]But the most regrettable part of all this may be baseball's take-no-prisoners approach. For one thing, it threatens the spirit of cooperation that had evolved between the players and owners on an issue that impacts them both. It also puts baseball in bed with some pretty unappealing characters. And instead of attacking the root problem, it sends a message to players that whatever you do, you'd better not get caught. [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]This saga is only going to erode trust with the union - trust necessary to continue to enact a truly beneficial enforcement program.  [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]Selig could have left baseball with an enviable legacy of management-labor cooperation, but I believe the A-Rod witchhunt will have some long-lasting negative ramifications down the road.  It's not too difficult to imagine the owners overreaching in the next round of bargaining and pushing the increasingly distrustful players over the edge and a nasty strike developing as a result.[/SIZE]
 

Mighty Joe Young

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JimD said:
I agree with this column:
 
WSJ's Matthew Futterman - Why Baseball's Victory is a Pyrrhic One
 
 
 
[SIZE=10pt]This saga is only going to erode trust with the union - trust necessary to continue to enact a truly beneficial enforcement program.  [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]Selig could have left baseball with an enviable legacy of management-labor cooperation, but I believe the A-Rod witchhunt will have some long-lasting negative ramifications down the road.  It's not too difficult to imagine the owners overreaching in the next round of bargaining and pushing the increasingly distrustful players over the edge and a nasty strike developing as a result.[/SIZE]
 
Nah .. no chance . The pot is so huge right now that no one is going to kill this golden goose. (apologies for the mixed metaphor). What I can see is a divided union though - there seems to be a genuine backlash developing on the "clean" side of the ledger.  
 

EvilEmpire

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JimD said:
I agree with this column:
 
WSJ's Matthew Futterman - Why Baseball's Victory is a Pyrrhic One
 
 
 
This saga is only going to erode trust with the union - trust necessary to continue to enact a truly beneficial enforcement program.  Selig could have left baseball with an enviable legacy of management-labor cooperation, but I believe the A-Rod witchhunt will have some long-lasting negative ramifications down the road.  It's not too difficult to imagine the owners overreaching in the next round of bargaining and pushing the increasingly distrustful players over the edge and a nasty strike developing as a result.
I don't see it that way at all. I think it reinforces to players that a) even the biggest stars in the game can be held accountable, and b) if you get caught, it is better to come clean. Players who got caught and acted within the spirit of management-labor cooperation cited served their suspensions and were right back on the field.

I think most players aren't users and don't like the idea of playing on an uneven playing field. It costs them money and opportunity.
 

JimD

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Several reporters have noted that there is an increasing number of players who are bothered by MLB running roughshod over A-Rod and inventing new penalties on the fly.  These players do not necessarily support Rodriguez's case but are worried by the precedent that is being set by Selig.   
 

86spike

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The PA is already upset after last night's 60 Minutes piece:
 
 
Rodriguez's lawyer Joseph Tacopina chastised MLB for participating in the segment - even though he also was interviewed.
 
''Tonight's further expansion of Bud Selig and Rob Manfred's quest to destroy Alex Rodriguez goes beyond comprehension,'' he said in a statement. ''In a clearly pre-orchestrated display, Selig and Manfred, having known for some time what the result of the arbitration would be (in light of Manfred sitting on the arbitration panel) put forth an unparalleled display of hubris and vindictiveness - complete with Manfred appearing in tandem with the drug dealer Tony Bosch, both in full makeup, celebrating the joint victory of Bosch's lies and Manfred's intimidation and payments for testimony.''
 
The players' association, which filed the appeal on Rodriguez's behalf, said in a statement it was disappointed, and that they might take action.


 
 


''It is unfortunate that Major League Baseball apparently lacks faith in the integrity and finality of the arbitrator's decision and our Joint Drug Agreement, such that it could not resist the temptation to publicly pile-on against Alex Rodriguez,'' the statement said. ''MLB's post-decision rush to the media is inconsistent with our collectively-bargained arbitration process, in general, as well as the confidentiality and credibility of the Joint Drug Agreement, in particular. ''As a result, the Players Association is considering all legal options available to remedy any breaches committed by MLB,'' the statement said.
 
Baseball said in a statement later Sunday that it had informed the players' association it would respond publicly once the appeal is over. ''It is ironic that the MLBPA is complaining about MLB's participation in this program given that Mr. Rodriguez's lawyer is also participating in the show,'' the statement said, referring to Tacopina.
 
 

Hoplite

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At this point, I think A-Rod's just trolling for attention. He's threatening to show up to the Yankees spring training and he filed a law suit alleging that the player's union failed to protect him (after he wrote them a letter requesting that they not defend him).
 

Gdiguy

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From what I've read, that seems to be the best angle to pursue - if it's just "I disagree with an arbitrator's decision", a court is unlikely to do anything about it. If he can successfully argue that both sides in the arbitration hearing basically tried to get him to lose, though, it may have more traction - and the MLBPA doesn't really come off that well from his complaint. Whether it's enough to actually get a court to bother is certainly not definite, but to me it seems like the only avenue that has any remote chance of success.
 

mauidano

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So the Tony Clark and the MLBPA is pissed at A-Rod too.  This guy has not a friend in the world.  He is going nuclear.  This will not end well for anyone.  There will be collateral damage.  And I couldn't be happier to watch this happen to him and the MFY's.  
 

terrisus

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mauidano said:
So the Tony Clark and the MLBPA is pissed at A-Rod too.  This guy has not a friend in the world.  He is going nuclear.  This will not end well for anyone.  There will be collateral damage.  And I couldn't be happier to watch this happen to him and the MFY's.  
 
Sadly, the Yankees are laughing all the way to the bank about this.
 

mauidano

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terrisus said:
 
Sadly, the Yankees are laughing all the way to the bank about this.
Yes. Yes they are.  But the drama will linger for a long time I hope.  Barnum & Bailey and Ringling Bros. won't be able to top the circus that this will be for Girardi, Jeets and that crew come Spring Training.  I am giddy at the thought!
 

Saints Rest

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Has there ever been a player banned for an entire season by the MLB? By any major sport? And if so, did that player come back to a 3-year guaranteed contract worth millions of dollars?

The 2014 ST circus will be one thing; the 2015 ST and season opening will be something else (assuming ARod is wearing pinstripes -- or any MLB uniform, for that matter, in 2015).
 

terrisus

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mauidano said:
Yes. Yes they are.  But the drama will linger for a long time I hope.  Barnum & Bailey and Ringling Bros. won't be able to top the circus that this will be for Girardi, Jeets and that crew come Spring Training.  I am giddy at the thought!
 

 
Sadly, I don't think it will matter much.
 
Although they're still not going to be very good this year
 

terrisus

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Saints Rest said:
Has there ever been a player banned for an entire season by the MLB? By any major sport? And if so, did that player come back to a 3-year guaranteed contract worth millions of dollars?

The 2014 ST circus will be one thing; the 2015 ST and season opening will be something else (assuming ARod is wearing pinstripes -- or any MLB uniform, for that matter, in 2015).
 
Not a player, but, of course, George Steinbrenner was banned for life by MLB.
We see how that worked out though.
 

Myt1

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Yeah, Manfred was a fucking joke.  And 60 Minutes did a shit job of following up with hard questions.
 
“Mr. Bosch’s credibility on this issue, whatever his motivations, whatever we did for him, was established by his willingness to come in, raise his right hand and testify,” Manfred said. Yes. He actually said that. Tony Bosch’s credibility — already set by 60 Minutes at whatever level you put lying, drunken drug dealers — is established because he raised his right hand.
 
But wait. There’s more.
 
“The credibility of any witness,” Manfred continues, “is determined by … looking the individual in the eye, listening to the story he tells and lining it up with other evidence.”
 
 
Um, who was the main corroborator of the Biogenesis evidence?  And, was Bud Selig willing to come in to raise his right hand and testify?
 

geoduck no quahog

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The Posnanski piece was ok as a well-deserved critique of 60 Minutes, but it falls on its face when  he starts addressing the actual case. Apparently Posnanski did not read the arbitrator's ruling, which is matter-of-fact damning.
 
As for references to Bosch's credibility, what Manfred was getting to (and the arbitrator's agree) is that no one took the "stand" to counter any of the claims, except for Mota who, unlike Bosch - was apparently not credible (no corroboration or evidence to back up his statements). Alex plead the fifth. He destroyed his Blackberry.
 
I assume 60 Minutes did a typically terrible job of editing the original interviews - as they couldn't care less about news, or facts, or fairness...just how things read on TV's 5-second attention span.
 
Footnote 9 on page 21 says it all :
 
In reference to the Quantum of Proof Requirement - 
 
"There is no need to resolve the dispute {quantum of proof} in this case because the violations of the JDA and BA found herein are established by clear and convincing evidence" (my italics)
 
I encourage everyone to read the report.
 
{Edit: "Bob" was named in the arbitration report. MLB paid for evidence. The evidence was substantiated. The second collection of evidence was not utilized, though paid for. Is that illegal or sleazy? I would expect the same if someone was investigating me}
 

Montana Fan

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mauidano said:
So the Tony Clark and the MLBPA is pissed at A-Rod too.  This guy has not a friend in the world.  He is going nuclear.  This will not end well for anyone.  There will be collateral damage.  And I couldn't be happier to watch this happen to him and the MFY's.  
 
It's like a Tarantino movie.  His teammates hate him, the owners hate him, the fans hate him and the union hates him.  And he's gonna walk away with all the money and some hot tail.  Bastard!
 

terrisus

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Something interesting I noticed reading over the documents revealed today that I hadn't noticed mentioned before (it may well have been, I just don't recall noticing it) is, in the suspension letter from Selig to Rodriguez, it saying: 
 
"In the event you commit a subsequent violation of the Program in the future, you will be suspended permanently from Major League Baseball."
 
Granted, Rodriguez isn't all that young and probably doesn't have too many years ahead of him regardless, but, thought it was interesting (since, for regular suspensions, it would be 50, 100, then lifetime on the 3rd).
 

Jaylach

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mauidano said:
So the Tony Clark and the MLBPA is pissed at A-Rod too.  This guy has not a friend in the world.  He is going nuclear.  This will not end well for anyone.  There will be collateral damage.  And I couldn't be happier to watch this happen to him and the MFY's.  
 
This whole situation has made my winter. What I find most "ARod" about this whole situation is that he had absolutely no problems hiding behind the MLBPA and the JDA/CBA in order to keep playing last year. Now that they've all run their due course, and the process he agreed to as finished, he suddenly has a problem with the MLBA, JDA, and CBA?
 
That's so ARod.
 

joe dokes

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Jaylach said:
 
This whole situation has made my winter. What I find most "ARod" about this whole situation is that he had absolutely no problems hiding behind the MLBPA and the JDA/CBA in order to keep playing last year. Now that they've all run their due course, and the process he agreed to as finished, he suddenly has a problem with the MLBA, JDA, and CBA?
 
That's so ARod.
 
Not my area of expertise, but almost all federal lawsuits trying to overturn arbitration decisions that come about as a result of Union collective bargaining include a claim agiant the Union for failing to do its job. I'm not sure if its a prerequisite to such a suit because the individual's first recourse is suposed to be his Union, or if its something else, but i wouldn't read too much into the inclusion of the MLBPA into teh federal suit. (Of course there may be a real divide between ARod and the Union, but that's a different issue).
 

Average Reds

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Has there ever been a player banned for an entire season by the MLB? By any major sport? And if so, did that player come back to a 3-year guaranteed contract worth millions of dollars?

The 2014 ST circus will be one thing; the 2015 ST and season opening will be something else (assuming ARod is wearing pinstripes -- or any MLB uniform, for that matter, in 2015).


There have been several NFL players to be suspended for a season. Alex Karras and Paul Horning are two examples. But none in recent years that I can think of.
 

Rovin Romine

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DontTauntOrtizMe said:
Here's a link of the lawsuit and arbitrator's decision posted by the Wall Street Journal's Brian Costa.
 
http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/ARODMLB01132014.pdf
 
Enjoy!

 
 
Nice ruling and good reasoning.  I'd also recommend everyone read the actual arbitrator's decision (skip to the end of the document.)
 
Some points:
  • Basically, MLB seemed to rely on Bosch, plus hundreds of blackberry texts, plus phone call records, plus Bosch certifying the copies of the notebooks were in fact his.   So while Bosch is a weak witness, the texts, calls and notes give him a ton of credibility. 
  • ARod's team wanted to smear Bosch but were basically shut down (the arbitrator acknowledged Bosch was a dealer in illegal drugs, but, basically, any person who testifies to providing illegal PEDs to an athlete falls into that category).
  • ARod did not testify in the hearing at all.  There was no "alternate scenario" put forward to explain the facts. 
 
As to the articles that say this is a hollow victory and everyone's hands are dirty and so forth:
a) no one is proposing a better PED policy
b) when the people involved in the situation are scumbags, scumbags will be testifying. That's kind of how it works. 
 

joe dokes

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  • ARod did not testify in the hearing at all.  There was no "alternate scenario" put forward to explain the facts. 
 
 
And to pre-empt a potential line of inquiry here (and a whine that I think ARod's team has already pursued).....the Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination does not apply in private proceedings like collectively bargained arbitration, so the arbitrator's arguably negative connotation of Arod's silence -- while impermissible in a criminal court trial -- is not a Constitutional problem (assuming the arbitration agreement doesn't require the opposite).
 
Boras chimes in, irrelevantly:
Scott Boras, Rodriguez's former agent, said that the ruling and MLB's decision to protect Bosch, has revealed a flaw in the system.
"The integrity of the game is only partially served when a known pusher is exonerated, when the genesis of this entire problem is now given a forum and compensation and is not behind bars for the distribution and promoting the use of illegal drugs, not only to baseball players but all members of the sporting community and youth," Boras told Fox Sports.
"Until we rectify that problem, we have not addressed the central issue of eradicating PEDs from professional sports. ... If these individuals go free, it promotes behavior to create processes to distribute PEDs, knowing the league's focus is on the players, not on the distributors of drugs."
 
 
I dont think "putting people behind bars" falls within Selig's power, even under the most generous reading of the "best interests of baseball" clause. How is that a "flaw in the system"?
 
And "exonerated?!   (Nice theatre potential if Bosch is ever charged criminally and Arod is called to testify by the prosecution).
 

ivanvamp

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terrisus said:
 
For $25 million, I'm sure they can figure out someone to replace him who's better than that (if they decided to spend what he would have earned, anyway).
Too bad for them that Kevin Youkilis is in Japan.
 
Can they?  I don't know what's out there.  It looks like it'll be mainly Kelly Johnson.