Rethinking Barstool?

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I know the world is a mess right now but if Katz is really unhappy, I find it hard to imagine that another media company wouldn't pay him a premium to leave or pay the entire PMT crew a lot of money to join their platform. This may be the opening that competitors and PMT fans who despise the rest of the BS brand were hoping for.

The question is whether Big Cat is serious or if he is just playing a role.
 

kelpapa

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Something that would complicate that is PFT just re-signed a two year deal with Barstool in June.
 

sodenj5

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Big Cat re-upped when they sold to Penn. Beyond that, I believe that neither he nor PFT own any of the IP and I’m sure there’s likely a non-compete in there somewhere.

Could they leave and start their own company and podcast? Maybe. But they might legally not be able to do it for a while and they’d be walking away from a ton of money.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Something that would complicate that is PFT just re-signed a two year deal with Barstool in June.
I am aware that they have a new contract and that Katz (and likely PFT) have ownership stakes in the company. That said, if someone like the WWL or the Ringer or Fox wanted to add them to their brand, they clearly have the resources to do so. As for the IP, that isn't a problem.

A BS-free PMT, renamed, with completely new bits would likely be just as good and, frankly, their audience might increase given the Barstool/Portnoy taint.

In short, the biggest issue isn't money or contracts. Its how attached Big Cat and PFT are to the platform.
 

ifmanis5

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The PMT podcast and the pizza reviews were my primary point of contact with Barstool and I grew tired of Dave's act so don't watch the pizza reviews anymore. In short, if PMT went elsewhere that would end it for me. Dave has built and become himself such an increasingly toxic culture that his brand is basically poison. I loved how he took on Roger but this has taken a sour turn and it's clear that this can't be undone. It's also very telling that any nascent personality or media company with a few eyeballs that is willing to praise Trump can get direct access to him (even in the middle of a pandemic) because Trump is so needy for adulation and validation. EDIT: Good for Big Cat, though- everything he said was right on and it takes guts to go at your boss in public.
 

sodenj5

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I think the other thing for Barstool and Portnoy and Big Cat is this crystallizes a ton of what might have been played off as a bit, or a character, or satire.

Portnoy going on Fox News and giving interviews and railing against Fauci and now interviewing Trump is not a bit and it’s not him being “in character.” That’s who he is, that’s what he believes, and it’s political propaganda.

I think that’s what frustrates Big Cat most. Anyone with 2 eyes and ears knows Portnoy is a republican, but now you’ve stepped over the threshold and the things that you say and do regarding politics are no longer jokes or bits. If that is or was Dave’s vision, it’s not something that Big Cat ever shared or wanted to be a part of.
 

Cotillion

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I think the other thing for Barstool and Portnoy and Big Cat is this crystallizes a ton of what might have been played off as a bit, or a character, or satire.

Portnoy going on Fox News and giving interviews and railing against Fauci and now interviewing Trump is not a bit and it’s not him being “in character.” That’s who he is, that’s what he believes, and it’s political propaganda.

I think that’s what frustrates Big Cat most. Anyone with 2 eyes and ears knows Portnoy is a republican, but now you’ve stepped over the threshold and the things that you say and do regarding politics are no longer jokes or bits. If that is or was Dave’s vision, it’s not something that Big Cat ever shared or wanted to be a part of.
Oh come on.

That is the thinnest of lines to hang on for Big Cat and says more about his character than anything if true.

Barstool brand has always been this, and it’s been bullshit to say “oh it’s just a bit”. He joined that brand. Barstool didn’t start out as something else and slowly morphed into this.

“Whoa boy, I was okay if we only perpetuated this stuff as bit and catered to people that believe this stuff. “ is pretty weak sauce.
 

allstonite

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That was well put and I’m glad he spoke out but Portnoy has been buddy buddy with Tucker Carlson and going on his show for a while now. So much for not being political. This can’t come as a surprise.

That’s why I was so disappointed when he came to Dave’s defense just a few weeks ago. I mean he is who we thought he was. I said then that his constant apologizing on Dave’s behalf was wearing thin for me and now he finds himself in a similar situation as Tyler. Blindsided by something Dave did and being forced to answer for something you had nothing to do with.

I really like Big Cat but it’s hard to have sympathy for him here. These are the people you decided to do business with and now you’re mad because you’re the one who now feels betrayed. I would LOVE to get Tyler’s thoughts on this whole ordeal but I haven’t seen anything yet.

I really hope dan and PFT can somehow leave but that feels like a longshot with their financial ties to Barstool
 

nattysez

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First part of the interview is up. It's worse than I thought it'd be -- didn't realize Portnoy would be such an ass-kisser on top of everything else.

The real kicker is that there's at least an implication that this interview happened because Portnoy's been emailing/DM'ing with Barron, a 14 year-old. Edit: to be clear, Portnoy specifically says he's been DM'ing with Barron, whether those DMs were what led to the interview is what's not said explicitly.
 
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TFP

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That was well put and I’m glad he spoke out but Portnoy has been buddy buddy with Tucker Carlson and going on his show for a while now. So much for not being political. This can’t come as a surprise.

That’s why I was so disappointed when he came to Dave’s defense just a few weeks ago. I mean he is who we thought he was. I said then that his constant apologizing on Dave’s behalf was wearing thin for me and now he finds himself in a similar situation as Tyler. Blindsided by something Dave did and being forced to answer for something you had nothing to do with.

I really like Big Cat but it’s hard to have sympathy for him here. These are the people you decided to do business with and now you’re mad because you’re the one who now feels betrayed. I would LOVE to get Tyler’s thoughts on this whole ordeal but I haven’t seen anything yet.

I really hope dan and PFT can somehow leave but that feels like a longshot with their financial ties to Barstool
This is very well said and pretty much captures my thought better than I could, especially the bolded.

First part of the interview is up. It's worse than I thought it'd be -- didn't realize Portnoy would be such an ass-kisser on top of everything else.

The real kicker is that there's at least an implication that this interview happened because Portnoy's been emailing/DM'ing with Barron, a 14 year-old.
Woof.
 

Kliq

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I think the other thing for Barstool and Portnoy and Big Cat is this crystallizes a ton of what might have been played off as a bit, or a character, or satire.

Portnoy going on Fox News and giving interviews and railing against Fauci and now interviewing Trump is not a bit and it’s not him being “in character.” That’s who he is, that’s what he believes, and it’s political propaganda.

I think that’s what frustrates Big Cat most. Anyone with 2 eyes and ears knows Portnoy is a republican, but now you’ve stepped over the threshold and the things that you say and do regarding politics are no longer jokes or bits. If that is or was Dave’s vision, it’s not something that Big Cat ever shared or wanted to be a part of.
I have intentionally never really watched/listened to anything Portnoy has done. I don't even listen to PMT, and most of my Barstool knowledge comes from my roomate, who fulfills every Stoolie stereotype you can think of, and this thread. That picture with Trump just says everything about him. I actually kind of doubt Portnoy is some hardcore conservative or far-right mouthpiece, but rather he is just interested in getting a reaction out of people and knew that posting that photo, with that kind of message, would be optimal trolling to get more attention on himself. It is actually kind of sad.
 

Cellar-Door

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That's a very well thought out response by BC. And I guarantee you Dave is going to say that he doesn't care or he doesn't have to answer to BC or something like that. But there's no doubt barstool goes to shit if BC leaves. If he didn't have several millions at stake, I'd bet he strongly thinks about leaving.
BC is Susan Collins with a mustache, he's been doing the same bit for years "oh man, I wish my boss weren't absolute trash, but as long as the check clears......."
 

jcd0805

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BC is Susan Collins with a mustache, he's been doing the same bit for years "oh man, I wish my boss weren't absolute trash, but as long as the check clears......."
I've never heard him say anything remotely close to that. When I've heard him he talks about Dave being "genuinely one of the funniest guys he knows", I think he 's his friend and it's tough to realize sometimes how your friend who you used to think just had some goofy views or was "a little over the top" may now be becoming someone you don't want to be friends with.
 

Cellar-Door

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I've never heard him say anything remotely close to that. When I've heard him he talks about Dave being "genuinely one of the funniest guys he knows", I think he 's his friend and it's tough to realize sometimes how your friend who you used to think just had some goofy views or was "a little over the top" may now be becoming someone you don't want to be friends with.
If that's the case it makes me think he's a pretty shitty person himself then, because Portnoy has been an absolutely awful person openly for years, I mean he cost them that ESPN show what... 4-5 years ago?
 

jcd0805

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If that's the case it makes me think he's a pretty shitty person himself then, because Portnoy has been an absolutely awful person openly for years, I mean he cost them that ESPN show what... 4-5 years ago?
Dan had a hand in that, yes Portnoy was saying gross things about Sam Ponder but Big Cat was lol'ing in the background. Big Cat apologized, said looking back now he shouldn't have been laughing it was gross and wrong what Portnoy was saying but Big Cat didn't blame him because he was just as guilty laughing at it. I can only assume Portnoy wasn't always an ass, or at least not all the time and has qualities only his friends know of and that's why they've hung with him. But people grow up and if your friend isn't growing with you it's sometimes hard to realize that.
 

CaptainLaddie

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I just watched the interview against my better judgment. Portnoy leads with the statement: "My guess is nobody ever said 'Hey, I don't like Donald Trump before he became president.'"

I mean, c'mon Dave.
 

PseuFighter

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I think the first 30 seconds or whatever are actually ok cause that's the first time I've ever heard Trump say people can get involved in causes by organising / running for local office. Problem is he then goes right back on script and Portnoy bootlicks through the rest. Disappointed me as I'm otherwise a Barstool fan, and felt like he missed a good opportunity to do the "every man" schtick to maybe get Trump to at least open up a bit.

Also, the stuff with Dan is bad. Just awful they didn't even give him a heads up.
 

PC Drunken Friar

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The Big Cat stance is full of shit. Portnoy has been political for years. Talking about the kneeling, cancel culture, me too, and now the masks. Own it that you've aligned yourself with it and stay or pack your bags. He can't have it bother ways.

If he was upset that he wasn't informed, I get it. His feelings are hurt and he doesn't feel valued. But don't say it's about politics.
 

Trlicek's Whip

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Someone podcast stans need to remind me again how giving this site ears, eyeballs and oxygen isnt directly complicit to the rotting fish head doing harm at the top of the masthead.
 

PC Drunken Friar

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Someone podcast stans need to remind me again how giving this site ears, eyeballs and oxygen isnt directly complicit to the rotting fish head doing harm at the top of the masthead.
It isnt, but everyone is free to pick their own battles and draw their own line, IMO. There are relatively few football owners that are worthy of our money, slots of musical artists are shit human beings, as with actors. Draw your own line but own up to the fact that you support shitbirds.
 

Bozo Texino

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Is it time to update the "most punchable face" thread?

Portnoy is the goddamned worst. And yes, I know - he WANTS me to think that he's the goddamned worst.
 

CarolinaBeerGuy

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Unrelated note, but it’s somewhat interesting that Big Cat is getting a lot of shit here for his association with Portnoy while Bill Simmons clearly has a friendly relationship with Adam Corolla who is as bad as, if not worse than, Portnoy at this point. I understand that they work for different companies, but the guilt by association is hard to overlook.
 

edoug

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Unrelated note, but it’s somewhat interesting that Big Cat is getting a lot of shit here for his association with Portnoy while Bill Simmons clearly has a friendly relationship with Adam Corolla who is as bad as, if not worse than, Portnoy at this point. I understand that they work for different companies, but the guilt by association is hard to overlook.
I don't if they are but Simmons and Jimmy Kimmel were very close. Kimmel has apologized and has shown he has grown.
 

CarolinaBeerGuy

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I don't if they are but Simmons and Jimmy Kimmel were very close. Kimmel has apologized and has shown he has grown.
He talks about Adam fairly often on his podcasts when Cousin Sal is on. Adam was on his podcast in February and they’ve both been on each other’s shows several times over the years. They all hang out together.
 

gammoseditor

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Unrelated note, but it’s somewhat interesting that Big Cat is getting a lot of shit here for his association with Portnoy while Bill Simmons clearly has a friendly relationship with Adam Corolla who is as bad as, if not worse than, Portnoy at this point. I understand that they work for different companies, but the guilt by association is hard to overlook.
Bill Simmons gets lots of shit here and Adam Corolla’s reach is less than 1% of Portnoy’s.
 

kenneycb

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Unrelated note, but it’s somewhat interesting that Big Cat is getting a lot of shit here for his association with Portnoy while Bill Simmons clearly has a friendly relationship with Adam Corolla who is as bad as, if not worse than, Portnoy at this point. I understand that they work for different companies, but the guilt by association is hard to overlook.
Big Cat works for Portnoy and makes him money. It’s an apt comparison in that they’re all people and acquaintances but falls apart once you dig any deeper.
 

InstaFace

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That was well put and I’m glad he spoke out but Portnoy has been buddy buddy with Tucker Carlson and going on his show for a while now. So much for not being political. This can’t come as a surprise.

That’s why I was so disappointed when he came to Dave’s defense just a few weeks ago. I mean he is who we thought he was. I said then that his constant apologizing on Dave’s behalf was wearing thin for me and now he finds himself in a similar situation as Tyler. Blindsided by something Dave did and being forced to answer for something you had nothing to do with.

I really like Big Cat but it’s hard to have sympathy for him here. These are the people you decided to do business with and now you’re mad because you’re the one who now feels betrayed. I would LOVE to get Tyler’s thoughts on this whole ordeal but I haven’t seen anything yet.

I really hope dan and PFT can somehow leave but that feels like a longshot with their financial ties to Barstool
The most wince-inducing part of his clip, to me, is at 7'30" where he says "...you may say, Riggs has done political interviews, Zero Blog Thirty... PFT's done political interviews, OK, I get that. But Dave doing political interviews is different than that, because Dave has always been about comedy-first. And Barstool is, for better or worse, it's Dave and it's me. And when people think of Barstool, they think of the two of us."

Leaving aside the egotism, and the more-sympathetic fact that he sounds legitimately blindsided... how can you pay the barest amount of attention to Dave Portnoy, nevermind work directly for him, and then say "he's about comedy first!"? Like, with a straight face? The guy couldn't be more of a distillation of naked political ambition if you gave him a soapbox and stood him out on the corner of the public square. He wants attention, he wants a following, he wants the world to be as HE thinks it should be, and couldn't care less about anyone else but himself in his pursuit to make everything about him.

I believe Katz when he says he signed up for this to make people laugh, and tries to stay out of politics because he thinks it's a domain too complex and serious for him. I have a hard time keeping my eyes from rolling when he tries to tell me that Dave Portnoy shared, he thought, a similar approach.
 

Cotillion

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Look he’s just shocked that there is gambling going on in this establishment.

The most wince-inducing part of his clip, to me, is at 7'30" where he says "...you may say, Riggs has done political interviews, Zero Blog Thirty... PFT's done political interviews, OK, I get that. But Dave doing political interviews is different than that, because Dave has always been about comedy-first. And Barstool is, for better or worse, it's Dave and it's me. And when people think of Barstool, they think of the two of us."

Leaving aside the egotism, and the more-sympathetic fact that he sounds legitimately blindsided... how can you pay the barest amount of attention to Dave Portnoy, nevermind work directly for him, and then say "he's about comedy first!"? Like, with a straight face? The guy couldn't be more of a distillation of naked political ambition if you gave him a soapbox and stood him out on the corner of the public square. He wants attention, he wants a following, he wants the world to be as HE thinks it should be, and couldn't care less about anyone else but himself in his pursuit to make everything about him.

I believe Katz when he says he signed up for this to make people laugh, and tries to stay out of politics because he thinks it's a domain too complex and serious for him. I have a hard time keeping my eyes from rolling when he tries to tell me that Dave Portnoy shared, he thought, a similar approach.
 

edoug

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Whatever his motives were for speaking out but Portnoy must be pissed. This a huge slap in the face.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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The fascinating dynamic at play here is that if this isn't a work, Katz can both stand up for his principles and enrich himself in the process. The only thing tying him to the company is loyalty to the brand, his coworkers and Portnoy.

I hate to say it but Portnoy is winning regardless of what happens. He is a media mogul in ascension and like most, he comes off as odious. However his veering ever rightward seems pretty strategic to me at least.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Considering how much these guys chortled when Deadspin imploded over the no-politics stance by their editors, it would be absolutely hilarious to me if Barstool did the same for the same reasons.

I find Big Cat's handwringing sincere enough but also disingenuous at the same time, and I know that doesn't make sense. Dan has known for years exactly who Portnoy is, how he's built his brand, and the way he behaves. Portnoy has never wavered from his public face of obnoxious shitheel. For Dan to get upset that he was "blindsided" by Portnoy kissing Trump's ass is, well, perhaps not entirely mockworthy, but lol boo hoo anyway.

Dan has a choice to make. He can either stand on the principles he claims to have, and take his very considerable talents to another media company where he will undoubtedly have massive success. This choice will cost him a lot of immediate money as he's got his financial roots deep into Barstool. If he decides to stay at Barstool that's his choice, but if he does he can just knock it off with the fake mock horror he professes whenever Portnoy does something profoundly shitty, which is pretty much every other day. Dan is the biggest reason Portnot is successful, and at some point Dan has to face the fact that he's enabling Portnoy to do this shit.

The final straw for Dan should be when Barstool put together a show by POC and then without telling the hosts gave it a name that spelled out a racial slur in the acrostic. That was beyond contemptible.
 

dirtynine

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I’m not a Barstool consumer. There are many things that are really gross about them, covered well. Beyond that, though, I find the idea the whole inter-organization turmoil thing could be a “work” a la wrestling is just so stupid and juvenile, and obviously Barstool cultivates that stuff. “Look, we’re fighting! drama!” Especially so when it’s about real, hurtful issues.

Say what you will about Deadspin, but they never did that. Even Stern, the gold standard of “watch this dysfunctional family squabble” never made light of racism for a bit as far as I’m aware.

If it’s not a bit and the non-racists / non-sexists aren’t disassociating themselves with haste, then there are no excuses even for the “good” personalities.
 

8slim

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Oddly enough I kind of think it’s pretty amazing this happened. I mean, I think it’s dumb and bad and all, but for all his bluster and bullshit, Portnoy really did bust his ass for close to 20 years, and this is the end result. I may personally not like it, but there is something oddly incredible about Dave Portnoy, the guy who I ran a trivia night for at Game On, interviewing the President.
If the past 25 years have taught us anything, it is that there is no ceiling for someone who wants to build a media business and has absolutely no shame or shred of human decency. While that dynamic cuts across political ideologies, it certainly is weighted to the right, whether it's Portnoy, Andrew Breitbart, or Roger Ailes. When you prioritize making a buck over literally every single other thing on Earth, including any possible concern of consequence, then the sky really is the limit.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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If the past 25 years have taught us anything, it is that there is no ceiling for someone who wants to build a media business and has absolutely no shame or shred of human decency. While that dynamic cuts across political ideologies, it certainly is weighted to the right, whether it's Portnoy, Andrew Breitbart, or Roger Ailes. When you prioritize making a buck over literally every single other thing on Earth, including any possible concern of consequence, then the sky really is the limit.
It's funny how some other folks with different leanings don't get that type of admiration; Leitch worked his ass off to create Deadspin in the first place, but I never heard or hear anyone actively admiring him for it. Maybe because he was more concerned about the content than becoming a millionaire? I dunno. Maybe this is my own bias or ignorance showing here, but the level of admiration for Portnoy becoming rich by working hard at being a horrible person doesn't strike me as healthy. He shouldn't be admired, he should be shunned.
 

CarolinaBeerGuy

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My alt-right leaning acquaintances loved Portnoy’s interview with Trump and are all in on Barstool now. Several of them weren’t even familiar with them before. It worked out exactly the way Dave wanted it.
 

8slim

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It's funny how some other folks with different leanings don't get that type of admiration; Leitch worked his ass off to create Deadspin in the first place, but I never heard or hear anyone actively admiring him for it. Maybe because he was more concerned about the content than becoming a millionaire? I dunno. Maybe this is my own bias or ignorance showing here, but the level of admiration for Portnoy becoming rich by working hard at being a horrible person doesn't strike me as healthy. He shouldn't be admired, he should be shunned.
Bill Simmons is someone who I think is largely admired for what he has built. And while he has his fair share of poorly-aged views, and has made many mistakes, I wouldn't call him a "horrible person", or anything close to that.
 

sodenj5

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And a contract. That's kind of a significant thing to remember.
Right. It isn’t as easy as “he can just walk away.”

He can, but there are significant legal and financial ramifications. Beyond just leaving the money, which he would likely lose a lot of, he would likely face a lawsuit from Portnoy for breaching his contract and trying to start his own thing.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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If Katz is on the market, he is likely to see offers that are multiples of his current compensation. He is an investment for media companies and his skill set is pretty broad. I can see Big Cat doing everything from an evolution of PMT at Barstool or some other company or you could see him morphing into the next big name in sports announcing or he can do something else entirely different. Unlike the players he covers, his career expectancy is something like decades so its not crazy to think someone would throw a long-dated deal at him to become one of the young-ish faces of their media company. Perhaps I am mistaken but I am guessing he would fetch something pretty eye popping in terms of stated money.

If a Fox or WWL or some other big media platform wants him, they almost certainly can offer a financial package that Barstool would have difficulty competing with and they don't need him to start today either. They can wait out whatever non-compete language exists and it gives Katz time to define a vision.

And IANAL but my understanding is that contracts are broken all the time. Its mostly a function of cost.
 

sodenj5

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If Katz is on the market, he is likely to see offers that are multiples of his current compensation. He is an investment for media companies and his skill set is pretty broad. I can see Big Cat doing everything from an evolution of PMT at Barstool or some other company or you could see him morphing into the next big name in sports announcing or he can do something else entirely different. Unlike the players he covers, his career expectancy is something like decades so its not crazy to think someone would throw a long-dated deal at him to become one of the young-ish faces of their media company. Perhaps I am mistaken but I am guessing he would fetch something pretty eye popping in terms of stated money.

If a Fox or WWL or some other big media platform wants him, they almost certainly can offer a financial package that Barstool would have difficulty competing with and they don't need him to start today either. They can wait out whatever non-compete language exists and it gives Katz time to define a vision.

And IANAL but my understanding is that contracts are broken all the time. Its mostly a function of cost.
It’s surely a function of cost, but Portnoy could make it difficult and drag the process out if he chose to do so. If someone was willing to “make them whole” financially, both Barstool and Big Cat, then it could happen.

Disney now owns ESPN and Fox so seeing them buying Big Cat out of his Barstool contract to do something multi-platform for either network would probably be a snap of the fingers for them.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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It’s surely a function of cost, but Portnoy could make it difficult and drag the process out if he chose to do so. If someone was willing to “make them whole” financially, both Barstool and Big Cat, then it could happen.

Disney now owns ESPN and Fox so seeing them buying Big Cat out of his Barstool contract to do something multi-platform for either network would probably be a snap of the fingers for them.
Disney does NOT own Fox Sports.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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It’s surely a function of cost, but Portnoy could make it difficult and drag the process out if he chose to do so. If someone was willing to “make them whole” financially, both Barstool and Big Cat, then it could happen.
Portnoy would almost certainly drag it out if only for the publicity but if you are bidding for Katz's services, you build that into your calculations.

Katz going on the market is akin to a multi-tool pro athlete becoming available in their very early 20s after demonstrating success at the top level of the sport. Or what happens after Coach Duggerton completes a full season. In short, he can get paid.