Riding the Train: the 2013 Miami Dolphins

[dwainw]

Miami has a pretty favorable schedule going forward: @TB, SD, CAR, @NY, @NYJ, @PIT, NE, @BUF, NYJ
 
Would it be out of the realm of possibility to see something like -- @TB -- W, SD -- W, CAR -- L, @NYJ -- L, @PIT -- W, NE -- L, @BUF -- W, NYJ -- W -- happen?
 
This would leave the Fins 9-7 and in playoff contention.

I appreciate your mild optimism about the whole schedule thing, but I'm totally done trying to analyze things that way.  No offense, but it becomes an exercise in pure frustration for me when they play down to their opponents as they seemingly have always done.  They often play "up" to better opponents, too, but they don't end up winning enough of those games.

Anyway, however well the offensive line managed to hold it together last night however the hell they did it, I have zero faith in any sort of consistency from them from here on out.  The Martin situation is just shit frosting on a poop cake.

I'll keep watching, of course.  But that doesn't mean I'm going to like it.

P.S.  The Red Sox absolutely bought me a year's worth of sports bliss this week as I'm sure it did for a lot of folks, so I'm not nearly as upset about our Dolphins as I sound.  But, of course, I still care. 

 

[pdaj]

I'm just saying, it's possible. Now, the Dolphins might get swept by the Jets, and upset the Patriots at home -- but my point remains that Miami is capable of getting 5 of the next 8.
 
That said, I'm now watching this team like I watched last year's team. That means, I have zero expectations for the playoffs.

 

[dwainw]

I feel you.  I'm not necessarily convinced, but I'm with you about no expectations.  Sure makes watching a lot less stressful.  (To their credit, the Miami D, which I've kept out of blind stubborn stupid faith, finally rewarded my fantasy team in a big way yesterday, so that was nice.  Yeah yeah yeah, no one gives a shit.)

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

All the hazing/bullying posts are split out to a new topic: http://sonsofsamhorn.net/topic/80409-rookie-hazing-bullying-miami-guard-incognito-indefinitely-suspended/

 

[CaptainLaddie]

Fuck off.

 
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/topic/75278-patriots-at-dolphins/page-6#entry4444293
 
Glaze away.

 

[sodenj5]

Since the Incognito stuff has been split out, I guess we can get back to talking about football.

I thought the Dolphins not playing again until Monday would be a blessing, like a mini bye-week of sorts. Now it feels like the whole team is just under a microscope until then.

It's now up to Philbin to keep the players focused and get the prepared to play. The season is still very much in a state of flux. They're in contention for a wild card spot, and they can band together and make a push for the playoffs, or they can fall apart and go into a tailspin.

I guess we'll find out pretty quickly when they face the winless Bucs.

 

[rymflaherty]

I thought the Dolphins not playing again until Monday would be a blessing, like a mini bye-week of sorts. Now it feels like the whole team is just under a microscope until then.

 
Talk about the worst time to have a national televised game though.
Even worse when you consider how awful Tampa Bay is.  ESPN has a stinker of a game, but now they have a huge controversy to focus on....We will hear about this ad nauseam leading up to and I'd imagine through the game.

 

[Clears Cleaver]

man, its been so brutal rooting for this franchise the last 20 years. i mean they have not been relevent or good enough to ge past the wild card round of the playoffs in forever.

 

[dcmissle]

Sadly your team can't seem to get out of its own way.

The current situation is awful. Feel very badly for the players, and I'm not even a Phins fan. Honestly, except for the Pats game, I hope you run the table. I despise rushes to judgment based on a woefully incomplete factual record. I find it hilarious that people are objecting to Dolphin players speaking out. Why? Because this is fucking with their preferred narrative.

So beat the Jets twice. Win a bunch of games. And piss people off. Please.

 

[dwainw]

Sadly your team can't seem to get out of its own way.

The current situation is awful. Feel very badly for the players, and I'm not even a Phins fan. Honestly, except for the Pats game, I hope you run the table. I despise rushes to judgment based on a woefully incomplete factual record. I find it hilarious that people are objecting to Dolphin players speaking out. Why? Because this is fucking with their preferred narrative.

So beat the Jets twice. Win a bunch of games. And piss people off. Please.

What's a non-Dolphins fan doing throwing his support around here all willy nilly like that? 

But seriously, I might be lumped in with folks you feel are rushing to judgement, dc.  To me, the evidence is pretty clear that SOMETHING was out of control on this team--even if people not named Incognito or Martin can reasonably be absolved of wrongdoing.  And even if somehow all facts come out and they reveal a lot of this is not as it appears, some serious changes will need to be made.  That alone demonstrates a definitive level of dysfunction.  Whether or not it's symptomatic of many teams in the league or of the league as a whole seems besides the point at the moment.

Anyway, I want to feel the way you do here, I really do.  And while I would like to think most of the Dolphins players who have been speaking out (despite how ill-advised it may be) either mean well or don't get it, it doesn't exactly change the fact that I'm having trouble feeling OK about throwing my full support behind this team.   Right now, I am simultaneously dreading Monday night's game while wanting to get it over with.  It's crazy. 

 

[dcmissle]

I am not going to defend the indefensible, and if it were my team this would not be going on. In fact, I'd get rid of all hazing save having rookies carry shoulder pads and sing songs.

But go look at the article Soden just posted in the RI thread. The world is a complicated place. RI could be a prick AND Martin could be shaking the team down

One thing Pats fans like me should understand and empathize with you about is the power of a false media narrative to wreck a season. Like what? Like a false story run on the morning of the 07 SB that the Pats taped the Rams walk through during the 01 SB.

I believe in fairness and not rushing to judgment. Good luck-- and I mean it.

 

[CaptainLaddie]

Despite my poorly taken joke earlier, I'm with dc.  I'm the furthest thing from a fan of the Dolphins or Incognito, but I think this whole thing is getting so fucking blown out of proportion.

 

[singaporesoxfan]

Here's a question for Dolphins fans: if the outcome of this situation is you lose Jeff Ireland, is that a good thing? I never thought he was particularly good but I'd be curious to hear what Miami fans think.

 

[rymflaherty]

I've heard criticism regarding all the chatter coming from current players in the locker room, as their comments have seemingly created more controversy and debate, but as it relates to Monday's game, their stance and speaking out seems like a positive to me.
Playing with a patch-work line will hurt, but it sounds like a locker room ready to rally around each-other.
 
And to answer your question Singaporesoxfan - "Good" would not be a strong enough word.
I am not an Ireland fan to put it lightly.  Not only has he had a poor track record, but the cheery on top is the way he seemingly has loomed in the shadows while everyone else has been blamed and fell on the sword...It was Parcells, no Henning's offense sucks, Sparano, etc. etc. When in reality he has drafted one pro-bowl player in 6 years, and it took the #1 overall pick to do that. And I can go on at dissertation length regarding my argument against Ireland, but I'll leave it at that.
I also say that realizing it;s not a guarantee you'll wind up with a GM that is better.  But at this point I'll take the unknown. I'll take a few years of hope thinking things might turn around. 

 

[Shelterdog]

Is there a formal way we can petition to change the thread's title to "Riding the Train: the 2013 Miami Dolphins"

 

[dwainw]

I do wonder about the team's ability to find greater motivation in a collective us-vs.-the world mentality.  At least in terms of their interaction with the media, they do seem to be digging in for better or worse.  The dynamic between players and coaches is another story, however.  I can't imagine what's going on there.  And I think somewhat lost in all of this is the mess that has been created for their offensive line which, as we all know, was plenty messy already.  Frankly, all of it seems like too much to overcome.

As for the front office, I feel pretty numb about it.  Ireland's performance has been mixed at best, and it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that if he didn't get this team to the playoffs, he'd be out.  I don't see how he survives this season and in light of recent events, I'd say good riddance.

Right now, just trying to root for this team with the usual passion will be kind of challenging I think, especially if they put themselves back into contention.  Strange feeling. 

 

[pdaj]

Is there a formal way we can petition to change the thread's title to "Riding the Train: the 2013 Miami Dolphins"

 
That's actually pretty hilarious.
 
Edit: And it's now official.
 
Perhaps it's my disdain for Parcells or the fact that I spend a great deal of my life working with children with autism (Ireland has two twin daughters with the diagnosis), but I've clearly been softer (and more forgiving) with Ireland than most. BP's involvement (and various titles) throughout Ireland's first few seasons muddied the waters of analysis for us fans, because it was difficult to decipher who was truly controlling the strings for the first few season's of Ireland's employment. For instance, most reports have indicated that Chad Henne was "Parcells' guy", and BP owned the Pat White selection, which was made in the 2nd round. I believe that if you were to evaluate Ireland's performance (completely free of Parcells) on paper, you'd determine that he's an average GM. He has solid, but unspectacular, drafts. He hits on some FA, and bombs on others. For the most part, he's been okay; perhaps even slightly better than okay.
 
But once you factor in his people skills, his grade takes a hit -- dramatically. As much as I like to think that a parent with two girls with autism would be a caring, compassionate people-person, he's consistently portrayed as a major-league dick by current players, former players, and people in the business. I mean, has any other GM endured as much public hatred as Jeff Ireland? Whoever's ranked 2nd, is it even close? The Dez Bryant "thing" has been just the tip of the iceberg.
 
So, when I look at what he's done for this team, the question I ask myself is ... Is he worth all the warts?
 
I don't think so.
 
For me, the unfortunate part of that answer is what it means for Joe Philbin. Assuming he isn't found to be negligent or incompetent follwing the completion the Martin investigation, I like what Joe's done for the Dolphins. I think he has what it takes to be a successful coach in the NFL, and 2 seasons just isn't enough time to evaluate him fairly and accurately. It's not too often that a new GM is hired without the ability to hire his own guy. I think it'd be a shame if Philbin's run was cut short because of Ireland.

 

[rymflaherty]

I do wonder about the team's ability to find greater motivation in a collective us-vs.-the world mentality.  At least in terms of their interaction with the media, they do seem to be digging in for better or worse.  The dynamic between players and coaches is another story, however.  I can't imagine what's going on there.  And I think somewhat lost in all of this is the mess that has been created for their offensive line which, as we all know, was plenty messy already.  Frankly, all of it seems like too much to overcome.

As for the front office, I feel pretty numb about it.  Ireland's performance has been mixed at best, and it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that if he didn't get this team to the playoffs, he'd be out.  I don't see how he survives this season and in light of recent events, I'd say good riddance.

Right now, just trying to root for this team with the usual passion will be kind of challenging I think, especially if they put themselves back into contention.  Strange feeling. 

 
That point is really what makes me angrier than I really should be. 
If he was on such a short-leash, it upsets me that he would be allowed to oversee what was their most important off-season in a decade, and I don't think that is hyperbole when you consider the number of high picks and cap room that he had to work with.
 
If he is replaced at least the core-talent is better than it was in 08 when the last regime took over.  I suppose that is the biggest positive I can give Ireland...He selected enough "solid" types to be competitively mediocre. 
 
The strange feeling you mentioned is also interesting.
I may be with you on that, though it's not so much this incident as it is the culmination of everything that's happened the past 10 or so years.  There just aren't many guys in the franchise (on the field and off) that I really trust which makes it hard to really get too excited, and it just seems like any time the team makes headlines it's due to a side-show, controversy and are perceived as a joke.
 
The good news is it's got to get better at some point...I have to think.

 

[CaptainLaddie]

I'll be honest.  Between the asking Dez Bryant if his mother was a whore and then reportedly telling Martin's agent that Martin should punch Richie, that's basically a "go find another job" for me.  Ireland seems like the kind of guy who's over his head and tries to talk a big game to make people believe he's not.

 

[rymflaherty]

Guess it'll be a longer wait for a positive Dolphins story.  Just saw this...
 
 
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/bruce-feldman/24204896/duper-latest-ex-nfl-star-to-test-positive-for-signs-of-cte
 
Duper is the latest player to test positive for signs of CTE.

 

[dwainw]

So anyway, apparently there's a game tonight.  It's hard to say what to expect.  I wouldn't be surprised to see the Dolphins come out strong, especially considering the opponent.  On offense, there's still that pesky matter of a crap offensive line.   They need to find creative ways to compensate and I don't know if Sherman is up to the task.   Ultimately, I look for the Dolphins defense to dictate the outcome as it did last week. 

ESPN should be licking its chops.  They might get the best ratings of the year for one of their worst matchups.  I'm dreading listening to Gruden more than I usually am.  It may be a tv volume down/radio webcast volume up kind of night.

 

[pdaj]

ESPN should be licking its chops.  They might get the best ratings of the year for one of their worst matchups.  I'm dreading listening to Gruden more than I usually am.  It may be a tv volume down/radio webcast volume up kind of night.

 
Yeah, I'll give the volume a shot at first, but if the Incognito-Martin talk hasn't stopped by the end of the 1st, I'm initiating Gruden mute mode. This controversy has single-handedly ruined my enjoyment of football the past couple of weeks. A win tonight would go a little ways towards restoring the joy.

 

[rymflaherty]

Really?
Everyone but Carter just picked the Bucs to win this game?!?!
 
Surprisingly this team rallied around Philbin last week (even after blowing the lead).
While it was controversial to some, the guys in the locker room seemed to rally around each other this week.
 
I see tonight's game as a release to two weeks of frustration.  At least for tonight, I actually think this team rolls.
My guess is something like 31-17 Miami
 
Edit* Okay, that's not looking like a very good prediction.  This first half has been embarrassing.

 

[pdaj]

The ESPN guys went with their emotions, not their heads. While it looked like a good call early on, the Bucs are imploding at the moment. Nothing is for sure with this Fins team, but you got to like their chances vs. a rookie QB and a semi-home crowd.

 

[sodenj5]

I hate this team so much.

 

[sodenj5]

Specifically, I hate:

Mike Sherman for his awful play calling. That sequence after the Wilson INT was atrocious. They also refuse to utilize Tannehill's athleticism in any way.

Phillip Wheeler for that idiotic roughing the passer on third down that extended the winning drive for TB.

The entire offensive line for amassing 2 rushing yards and folding like a wet paper bag against a 4 man front with the game on the line.

Ryan Tannehill for missing a wide open Mike Wallace who had Revis and the safety beat deep. If he leads Wallace, that's a TD. He under throws him and pushes it out of bounds. That throw has to be made.

The defense for not being able to stop a third and fourth string running attack.

Jeff Ireland for putting this shitty team together.

Joe Philbin for not having his team ready to play after having 11 days to prep for a winless team.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

I hear your frustrations for sure, sodenj5, but after all the shitstorm and a crappy loss today:

• Dolphins are still #7 in the AFC playoffs standings with just a game out from the Jets & two games left against them
• Hold tie-breakers vs. both #8 Titans and #9 Browns
• Plays #11 SD next week at home

I think the real test for Philbin & Co. starts from this point forward.

 

[dwainw]

I hear your frustrations for sure, sodenj5, but after all the shitstorm and a crappy loss today:

• Dolphins are still #7 in the AFC playoffs standings with just a game out from the Jets & two games left against them
• Hold tie-breakers vs. both #8 Titans and #9 Browns
• Plays #11 SD next week at home

I think the real test for Philbin & Co. starts from this point forward. 

This is nice and all, but this team is toast.  Of all the valid points made by sodenj5 above, I think the one that galls me the most, and the one that puts the nail in the proverbial coffin, is the Dolphins run defense disappearing.  This was supposedly the #1 strength of the team, and they got absolutely abused when it mattered most.  Hell, Mike James was about to shred them for a jillion yards on the night before he went down.  Have no fear--bring in the 3rd and 4th stringers on this winless team, they'll save the day!! 
 
Get Ireland out of there and blow it up.  I think it's time to go back to watching Red Sox DVDs for the next couple of winters.

 

[dynomite]

This is nice and all, but this team is toast.

No, they're not, as SSF explained. If the Dolphins can sweep the Jets, they've got a pretty good chance at the #6 seed.

They'll need to go 9-7 to get there (probably), which they could accomplish with 5 wins against flawed teams (vs.SD, @NYJ, @PIT, @BUF, vs.NYJ) despite 2 losses against teams playing well (vs.CAR, vs.NE).

Which #6 seed contender do you think has a better shot? The 4-5 Chargers, who have to play the Chiefs (twice), the Bengals, and the Broncos?

EDIT: And the real problem for the Dolphins -- both on-field and off -- is the offensive line.

 

[smastroyin]

I think the general feeling of their done-ness comes from the fact that they have that awful Buffalo loss to go with this awful TB loss.  If there were 6-3 I think people would feel better about their ability to beat the teams they should down the stretch.  As well, if they had started 0-3 to get to 4-5 it would feel a lot different than starting 3-0 to get there.
 
They aren't done because the AFC is pretty much parity-land this year.  But I get the frustration.

 

[Ed Hillel]

The Miami offensive line against the Jets defensive line may be the biggest unit mismatch in football. If Miami beats the Jets twice, I would be shocked.

 

[dwainw]

No, they're not, as SSF explained. If the Dolphins can sweep the Jets, they've got a pretty good chance at the #6 seed.

They'll need to go 9-7 to get there (probably), which they could accomplish with 5 wins against flawed teams (vs.SD, @NYJ, @PIT, @BUF, vs.NYJ) despite 2 losses against teams playing well (vs.CAR, vs.NE).

Which #6 seed contender do you think has a better shot? The 4-5 Chargers, who have to play the Chiefs (twice), the Bengals, and the Broncos?

EDIT: And the real problem for the Dolphins -- both on-field and off -- is the offensive line.

I understand, but looking at things from a performance standpoint (not to mention the obvious distractions they'll be dealing with), I don't see how a rational argument can be made in favor of this happening.  As has been mentioned, the offensive line will continue to be a glaring weakness, and to me the only realistic equalizer was the defense, but they simply have not risen to the occasion.   They've shown very little consistency this season despite getting progressively healthier, and yesterday was just an embarrassment.

On a management level, faith in the coaching staff is diminishing rapidly.  Apparently Ross is a staunch supporter of Philbin, though, so nothing is likely to change with him in the near future.  My best hope is that he'll dump Ireland ASAP so they can at least get the ball rolling (or should I say, the heads) sooner than later. 

Don't put off the inevitable.  Blow it up.  

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

the offensive line will continue to be a glaring weakness, and to me the only realistic equalizer was the defense, but they simply have not risen to the occasion. 

 
Exactly what are you basing this on?

• PFF: +57.7 team defense grade, 5th in the league right below the 49ers at +64.4 (2nd in pass rush)
• DVOA (through wk 9 only): 12th in Defensive DVOA
• AFS: 13th in Defensive EPA with 13.2

If you were expecting a top 5 defense that was unrealistic, also the notion that it was an "equalizer" for the OL. 
 
To call for a blow up with just a game out of the PO spot with amid the shitstorm, injuries, facing the #6 team twice, and a weak AFC with teams pulling Jekyll & Hyde acts from week to week, is more reactionary than realistic. 

 

[Shelterdog]

Tannehill is starting to be a question mark.  There aren't all that many players who were playing like a below average starter 25 starts into their career  (and that's what Tannehill is--30th by QBR, 31st by DVOA, 32nd by DYAR, 22nd in rating) who became a consistently above average starter: maybe Eli qualifies.  You clearly stick with him, particularly because the problems on his line and the injuries at receiver are obviously hurting his performance, but he's starting to look like his best case may be becoming a steady Matt Schaub type.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

Tannehill is starting to be a question mark.  There aren't all that many players who were playing like a below average starter 25 starts into their career  (and that's what Tannehill is--30th by QBR, 31st by DVOA, 32nd by DYAR, 22nd in rating) who became a consistently above average starter

 
Here's a career arc of 64 QBs in the league:
 

 
http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/article.php?article=cummingscareerarcsqb13
 
Here's another "aging curve":
 

 
http://www.footballperspective.com/quarterback-age-curves/
 
Most QBs make a huge jump from years 2-4, then smooths out. We also know that if a QB does not develop into a "stud" within that window, chances are he never will. 
 
But even among "elite" QBs there are bumpy years, so not sure if Tannehill someday becoming a top-10 QB is out of the question. Now, Schaub did enjoy a series of very solid years until this year, so being a steady "Schaub" type indeed may not be a bad outcome for Miami.

 

[Shelterdog]

 
 
But even among "elite" QBs there are bumpy years, so not sure if Tannehill someday becoming a top-10 QB is out of the question. Now, Schaub did enjoy a series of very solid years until this year, so being a steady "Schaub" type indeed may not be a bad outcome for Miami.

 
I looked at some more players and second year Tannehil isn't that different from second year Matt Ryan or second year starter Drew Brees so I'm going to walk back what I said a little. I'm not sure if anyone's emerged who became an elite player without showing signs in their third year as a starter but more than a few players struggled their first two years.

 

[dwainw]

 
Exactly what are you basing this on?

• PFF: +57.7 team defense grade, 5th in the league right below the 49ers at +64.4 (2nd in pass rush)
• DVOA (through wk 9 only): 12th in Defensive DVOA
• AFS: 13th in Defensive EPA with 13.2

If you were expecting a top 5 defense that was unrealistic, also the notion that it was an "equalizer" for the OL. 
 
To call for a blow up with just a game out of the PO spot with amid the shitstorm, injuries, facing the #6 team twice, and a weak AFC with teams pulling Jekyll & Hyde acts from week to week, is more reactionary than realistic. 

It's totally reactionary.  Then again Dolphins just lost to an 0 - 8 team after an extra long practice period, so there's that in my favor.

Anyway, funnily enough, I'm usually a pretty optimistic fan.  And I genuinely appreciate you and anyone else providing deeper, more qualitative analysis refuting my hyperreactionarianism than the "the offensive line sucks" and "the defense is too inconsistent" type of points I've made.  It's what makes this site so great for noobs like me (or is it "knobs?").  I hope you're right and I'm wrong and they can keep themselves in contention down the stretch.  Unfortunately, those stats you referenced brought them to 4 - 5 against mixed competition, that 5th ranked defense just let Tampa Bay scrubs run roughshod over them, and very little I've seen in games among players or coaches gives me reason to expect improvement.  And very much I've seen of this bullshit mess they've gotten themselves into off the field suggests they will continue to deal with major distractions for the remainder of this season and beyond.

(For what it's worth, I'm not all that worried about Tannehill yet.  I mean, other than for his physical safety.  I don't see how his progress can be fairly or fully assessed considering how he often he gets knocked on his ass or is forced to get rid of the ball.  I guess you could say his sack avoidance skills have regressed.  But I'm optimistic he can raise his game if/when he gets an NFL caliber offensive line.)

 

[rymflaherty]

Unfortunately I can't get too excited at this team being in the thick of the playoff race.  Just because the rest of the AFC is awful doesn't mean this team is anywhere close to achieving their goals and being where they should be.  Sneeking into the playoffs as an 8-8 or 9-7 6th seed doesn't mean the team is anywhere close to the Patriots.
 
At this point, "Have we hit rock bottom...yet?" or "Finding Rock Bottom" may be the appropriate thread title.
Spoiler Alert. I'm guessing the answer is no, because with the way things have gone for this franchise does anyone expect there to not be something ridiculous that comes out of this investigation?
 
A couple thought on the game:
 
Sodenj5 - Wallace didn't make your hate list?
Granted that throw by Tannehill was awful, but the total lack of awareness by Wallace on the sideline was awful as well.  Could he have toed the line and made the catch? Maybe not, but no one was around him and he could have at least tried.
He had a few plays like that and each one caused me to become more an more infuriated.  It's either laziness or lack of awareness, I don't know?  There were some run plays that he didn't even look like he knew what was going on. I kid you not he stood on the line without moving for nearly 2 seconds.  He'd be toward the top of my hate list last night.
 
That throw withstanding, Tannehill was one of the bright spots last night.  I saw a lot of people criticizing him last night on other sites after the game and it surprised me.  Outside of the few Elite guys there aren't many QB's that would keep a team in the game on the road when your team has 2 rushing yards.

 

[soxhop411]

Dolphins fans got the GM's phone number, email and fax number, may have subscribed him to "free shaving porn sites." http://t.co/LRFpEPkHme

This won't end well.

 

[singaporesoxfan]

This won't end well.

So you're saying the Troubles have started for Ireland?

 

[mauf]

 
I looked at some more players and second year Tannehil isn't that different from second year Matt Ryan or second year starter Drew Brees so I'm going to walk back what I said a little. I'm not sure if anyone's emerged who became an elite player without showing signs in their third year as a starter but more than a few players struggled their first two years.

 
I guess it depends on whether you think QBs should be judged first and foremost by wins and losses. Terry Bradshaw led the Steelers to the AFCCG in his third season, but he was statistically a below-average QB until his sixth season (which, not coincidentally, was the first of the four Steel Curtain Super Bowl teams).
 
Also, the only other QB I can think of who was asked to step in immediately as an NFL starter with as little college experience as Tannehill (20 starts) is Cam Newton.
 
Having said that, Tannehill is a classic example of a QB prospect who didn't impress with his decision-making at the college level but was nonetheless drafted high because of his immense natural athleticism. Teams that gamble on those guys usually end up regretting it, and Tanny hasn't shown much to date to make you think he'll beat those odds.
 
 

So you're saying the Troubles have started for Ireland?

 
Well done.

 

[Shelterdog]

 
I guess it depends on whether you think QBs should be judged first and foremost by wins and losses. Terry Bradshaw led the Steelers to the AFCCG in his third season, but he was statistically a below-average QB until his sixth season (which, not coincidentally, was the first of the four Steel Curtain Super Bowl teams).
 
Also, the only other QB I can think of who was asked to step in immediately as an NFL starter with as little college experience as Tannehill (20 starts) is Cam Newton.
 
Having said that, Tannehill is a classic example of a QB prospect who didn't impress with his decision-making at the college level but was nonetheless drafted high because of his immense natural athleticism. Teams that gamble on those guys usually end up regretting it, and Tanny hasn't shown much to date to make you think he'll beat those odds.
 

 
It's not the win-loss that made me question him--it's the combination of (1) how shitty he looks when I watch him, particularly in decision making (2) his crappy stats and (3) the conventional wisdom I've heard tossed around (including by Bill Walsh) that you can tell what a QB is after about 30 starts, and Tannenhill is getting near the magic ticker. But the more I look into it the less I believe in the third part: while a lot of great QBs figure things out their second year starting others take a little longer and when you start looking you realize that a QB be pretty pedestrian in his second year as a starter and still develop into an elite (Brees, Favre) or near-elite (Rivers, Ryan) player.

 

[mauf]

 
It's not the win-loss that made me question him--it's the combination of (1) how shitty he looks when I watch him, particularly in decision making (2) his crappy stats and (3) the conventional wisdom I've heard tossed around (including by Bill Walsh) that you can tell what a QB is after about 30 starts, and Tannenhill is getting near the magic ticker. But the more I look into it the less I believe in the third part: while a lot of great QBs figure things out their second year starting others take a little longer and when you start looking you realize that a QB be pretty pedestrian in his second year as a starter and still develop into an elite (Brees, Favre) or near-elite (Rivers, Ryan) player.

 
Yeah, I wasn't clear about the point I was making on W-L. I was saying that Bradshaw was still statistically dreadful his third year, but because his team reached the AFCCG that season (after being awful his first two years), some would say he was a good QB notwithstanding the bad numbers. Similarly, Cam Newton hasn't been much different statistically this year compared to his first two seasons, but the Panthers are winning -- some would say that shows Cam has taken a big step forward, individual stats be damned.

 

[pdaj]

So, Mike Pouncey isn't playing today after suffering through an illness ... all week long? Oh boy.

 

[dwainw]

For those who may still care (but then you probably already knew this):  Mike Pouncey is OUT.  Isn't that funny?
 
Prediction for Miami:  -26 yards rushing, 14 sacks, 6 QB fumbles, Pat Devlin enters the game after Tannehill gets hauled away in an ambulance and the death of Matt Moore.  Game ends when Devlin, instead of taking a sack for a safety, runs out of the end zone and jumps into the stands, never to be seen again.
 
EDIT:  Beaten to the punch by pdaj.  Of course.

 

[pdaj]

For those who may still care (but then you probably already knew this):  Mike Pouncey is OUT.  Isn't that funny?
 
Prediction for Miami:  -26 yards rushing, 14 sacks, 6 QB fumbles, Pat Devlin enters the game after Tannehill gets hauled away in an ambulance and the death of Matt Moore.  Game ends when Devlin, instead of taking a sack for a safety, runs out of the end zone and jumps into the stands, never to be seen again.
 
EDIT:  Beaten to the punch by pdaj.  Of course.

 
 
My only hope with this game is that the NFL often doesn't make sense. By all accounts, the Chargers should win this game handily. And that's why they won't. Prediction: Dolphins 24 Chargers 14. Okay, that's not really a prediction, but ...
 
I'm going to watch this game, but only for the same reasons people often slow down on the highway to see the wreckage of an automobile accident. I don't know if their are many teams that could lose their starting LG, C, and RT, and still manage to look pretty. I wonder if we get to see Watkins today? Or will Brenner start in Pouncey's place? Will Yeatman, of course, it out for the year with a torn ACL.
 
Edit: Dallas Thomas would also be an option.

 

[dwainw]

I'm going to watch this game because what the eff else am I supposed to do?  My kids have already given up on trying to play with me on Sundays in the fall.  Plus I've been stubborn enough to keep the Dolphins D on my fantasy squad. 

Now, I'm gonna be honest, I don't know much about Watkins, Brenner and Thomas.  Sounds like an accounting firm.  If they can't keep Tannehill on his feet, I wonder if they could at least keep him from getting audited.

Fun times.  At least that Chiefs/Broncos game tonight should be entertaining.

 

[pdaj]

Now, I'm gonna be honest, I don't know much about Watkins, Brenner and Thomas.  Sounds like an accounting firm.  If they can't keep Tannehill on his feet, I wonder if they could at least keep him from getting audited.

 
I needed that laugh. Thank you.

 

[SMU_Sox]

You guys are the most depressed fans on the board.

My advice? Smoke em if you got em. Drink.

Look the Chargers are an all offense team. You have a better chance against them than say TB who were a 3 amd 6 or 4 and 5 team trapped in an at the time 0 and 8 record. Typed on mobile.

 

[pdaj]

You guys are the most depressed fans on the board.

My advice? Smoke em if you got em. Drink.

Look the Chargers are an all offense team. You have a better chance against them than say TB who were a 3 amd 6 or 4 and 5 team trapped in an at the time 0 and 8 record. Typed on mobile.

 
C'mon now, that's only because there isn't a Jaguars thread. And I haven't checked in on the Giant thread, but they can't be doing all that well, either. Besides the point, I predicted a win ;-)