Roger G's Wheel of Justice

Scriblerus

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This investigation is yet another smokescreen.  It should take a couple of days at the most, but I agree with Spike, it will be weeks if not months.  Goodell isn't going away, and the investigation even gives the NFL the ability to defer answering any further questions as they might relate to the Ravens or other players with DV suspensions.  It also gives the NFL time to decide who to throw under the bus, pay off, and fire so they can corroborate Goodell's story. 
 
The NFLs best case scenario now is to circle the wagons, admit that the tape was delivered but not passed on to the proper people, fire someone, apologize for the confusion, and then praise themselves for having the most strict policy on DV is all of professional sports.  The investigation gives the whole thing credibility to the public.
 

Average Reds

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Fred in Lynn said:
Wasn't the outcome of the case a guilty plea from Rice with a sentence of no jail time should he complete the program? Doesn't that categorically constitute, qualitatively speaking, a successful prosecution? Those are not rhetorical questions.
 
 
Rice originally pleaded not guilty.  I do not believe he amended that pleading prior to his acceptance into the "pretrial intervention" program.  (Or at least I can't find a story indicating that he did.)
 
My understanding in this case is that once he is accepted, the case is frozen.  Upon successfully completing the program the case is dismissed.  So long as he stays clean, there is no finding of guilt.
 
And yes, prosecutors would consider that a successful disposition (not prosecution) of the case. 
 

dcmissle

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singaporesoxfan said:
 
I've been as critical as anyone of the NFL's actions here, but the appointment of Robert Mueller is the one thing I don't have any problem with, and Ben Volin is way out of his depth here if that's his understanding of Mueller. There's a big reason why Mueller was the only FBI director to reach the full 10-year term limit and have it extended since J. Edgar Hoover - he's good and well-respected. If we're talking sports experience, it was Mueller's FBI that investigated NBA rigging and steroids in baseball.
Agreed. There are maybe 10 people in this entire country who have had high government posts and enjoy the respect and confidence of everybody. Mueller is one of those people.
 

Average Reds

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twibnotes said:
The optics are still F'd. We have congressmen bashing a sports league that did more than a fellow govt entity (the state of NJ) so to speak. The least these demagogues could do is make mention of the fact that we need to do some serious thinking about how the criminal justice system handles domestic abuse. NFL and its billionaire owners are an easy target, and pols are just looking to score some points.
 
While pols are always looking to score cheap points, I think this misses the point of where the outrage towards the NFL is coming from.
 
People generally have a more sophisticated understanding of how the criminal justice system works than we may want to give them credit for.  I think we all realize (at some level) that DV cases are such a cultural scourge that prosecuting every alleged perp to the fullest extent of the law is not practical.  Prosecutors just don't have the resources to do this and so they will actively work to divert "good candidates" into pretrial intervention programs.  The other reasons for this sort of disposition could take all day to go through, so I'll just say while we may not like it, we get it.  (Although the discovery of incontrovertible evidence of guilt does make the decision not to prosecute harder to take.)
 
The anger at the NFL stems from the combination of a number of different factors:
  1. They do not operate under the legal/practical/financial constraints that burden the local AC prosecutors office. 
  2. They have made a practice of inserting themselves into off-field activities of players.
  3. They completely botched their handling of the process.  (Interviewing the victim with her abuser was a huge miss.)
  4. They issued an incredibly tone-deaf, weak punishment.  (if Goodell issues an 8 game suspension back in July, I would bet that none of the rest of this happens.)
  5. When faced with criticism, they tried to push a narrative insinuating that the tape from the elevator showed that Jamay Palmer Rice was the instigator.  (Most offensive part of all of this, IMO.)
  6. When the tape was actually released, they tried to claim that they didn't actually see it. 
We understand and live with the everyday injustices that stem from the complexity of life.  But we deeply resent being played for fools.  Roger Goodell and the NFL have tried to play us all for fools.
 
"For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind."
 

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86spike said:
So the Mueller announcement now has me thinking that Goodell will survive quite a bit longer, if not indefinitely.
 
They will now slow down and every call for him to go will be met with "we need to wait until the investigation is complete".
 
Absent a new bombshell (maybe whomever was on that voicemail will speak up), this is now giogn to get the freeze out treatment in hopes that public sentiment will calm down over 6 months.  I doubt they finish their investigation before the SB.
If Congress calls hearings, that strategy is dead in the water.

dcmissle said:
Agreed. There are maybe 10 people in this entire country who have had high government posts and enjoy the respect and confidence of everybody. Mueller is one of those people.
I think they've made a mistake framing this investigation as "independent." Exhibit A: Andrew Cuomo. Exhibit B: Mara and Rooney are overseeing this.

And Exhibit C: Mueller, who no matter how much integrity he has, is not independent. He works for the guys who negotiated the league's most important TV deal. As terrible as Bud Selig is, I don't recall him ever suggesting that the Mitchell Report was independent. And whatever its flaws, that report ended up being a game-changer in terms of how baseball and its drug policies.

Seems like another unnecessary PR blunder.
 

bowiac

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JayMags71 said:
What has Goodell done that's caused franchise values to increase? What initiatives has he spearheaded? What actions has he taken that helped increase profits? Like others have said, the term "empty suit" was invented for people like him.
Sure, but most of the owners may be empty suits as well. They're the ones who have made him one of the highest paid executives in the world.
 

snowmanny

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Devizier said:
 
Famously so, as Bobby Chouinard not only threatened to kill his wife by holding a gun to her head, his jail sentence was specially constructed so that he would only have to serve time in the
offseason. I believe he played two seasons under this arrangement.
The Red Sox cut Wilfredo Cordero but mlb did nothing.
 

lambeau

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Steve Bisciotti made an interesting statement to WBAL yesterday, saying Ray's version, technically accurate, left him with the impression that she whaled on him, he defended himself, she hit her head and fell unconscious.Why did he believe that relatively benign version? "Because I wanted to." He sounded earnest in recognizing his denial.
Brian Billick said this morning that he was most struck by Ray's "cavalier attitude"--that's what really shocked him on the tape.
How ironic that the dinner last night Goodell bowed out of was an Elie Wiesel foundation promoting "ethical decision-making" to combat "indifference"--Richardson cried getting his award.
I think these guys have a hard time facing that a lot of their employees are psychopaths.
 

Cellar-Door

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Devizier said:
Not sure I agree entirely with where you're going here, (an accusation of hypocrisy?) but the issue isn't just that Ray Rice is clearly guilty of assaulting his wife, but that the NFL has decided to adjudicate all sorts of non-football related matters (i.e. smoking marijuana) and as such has made itself a form of parallel law enforcement. And in that world of parallel law enforcement, they decided that smoking marijuana a couple of times deserves a year's suspension, whereas indisputable evidence of beating your wife requires a 2 game ban. Imagine if the criminal justice system worked that way...
Not hypocrisy, but pointing out that without video this never even gets talked about. There are dozens of DV arrests of athletes every year, Rice's drew attention because of the initlal video of him dragging his GF out of the elevator.
As to the 2 games, I thought it was a major mistake, but I also can see why it happened. The league has always been wary of suspensions for non-convictions, add in Shanay coming out in support of Ray Rice, pressure from the union, and the fact that the judge and prosecutor diverted Rice pre-trial (so no conviction to lean on) and I see why they made the mistake of going low.
The two main factors in the story blowing up were the video, and the fact it came at the same time as Josh Gordon got a year for his 4th drug policy violation. Not much the NFL can do on that, it is part of the CBA and they have basically no discretion.
 
Still I think the greater point was... this is a good thing if it leads to people demanding all leagues get tough on DV, but sadly I don't think it will.
 

mauf

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JayMags71 said:
What has Goodell done that's caused franchise values to increase? What initiatives has he spearheaded? What actions has he taken that helped increase profits? Like others have said, the term "empty suit" was invented for people like him.
 
Off the top of my head:
 
-- Consistent top-line and bottom-line growth in a sport where many people felt demand was saturated, and in an economic environment where other sports that experienced strong growth in the 1990s and early 2000s (NASCAR, golf) have struggled.
 
-- Favorable labor agreement where the league extracted concessions from a well-run players' union without a work stoppage. (An offseason lockout doesn't count.)
 
-- Favorable settlement of lawsuits by former players relating to head injuries. This is an underrated achievement.
 
-- Franchise values have continued to grow (though judging by the stratospheric sale prices in other sports, I agree Goodell doesn't deserve a ton of credit for this).
 
On the negative side of the ledger, he isn't particularly adept at the PR aspects of the job -- this isn't the first time we've seen that. He also hasn't managed to arrest the decline in youth football participation, though I don't think this can be fairly laid on him, just as he shouldn't get credit for escalating franchise values in a climate where clubs in all major team sports are appreciating in value.
 
If you're even a little objective, it's not hard to see why NFL owners are pleased with that record of performance. And in an environment where their two largest competitors were going through transitions in leadership (and the third is widely seen as having an incompetent man at the top), it's not surprising they chose to overpay Goodell rather than risk his departure.
 

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Shelterdog said:
 
 
Could you explain why you think he's a failure? Because, honestly, he's been pretty awesome at his job--making NFL owners richer. The fucking Bills just sold for 1.4 billion dollars.
We are likely selling Riger a little short on his accomplishments. Most if the owners aren't dummies and if they are paying him as one of the world's top CEOs, they must thing he is doing something right. You can buy a puppet for a lot less than that. However, I think this overshadowed by two points. First, SJH is right about Roger being a total NFL lifer. I'm sure the owners like that it makes him loyal to The Shield, but it certainly limits his perspective. Second, football has become an inelastic good primarily as a result of increasing technologies: HDTV, online gambling, and fantasy football. It's evident at the college level as well. Maybe the NFL would be less valuable with a different commissioner, but my gut says that's not the case.

This is another distraction in a long list of then that is shifting the focus away from the actual games. Two years ago it was Seau and CTE, last year the replacement refs, and this year the Rice/DV issues.

The NFL has created a sports crack but they aren't the best dealers on the block.
 

mauf

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lambeau said:
Steve Bisciotti made an interesting statement to WBAL yesterday, saying Ray's version, technically accurate, left him with the impression that she whaled on him, he defended himself, she hit her head and fell unconscious.Why did he believe that relatively benign version? "Because I wanted to." He sounded earnest in recognizing his denial.
Brian Billick said this morning that he was most struck by Ray's "cavalier attitude"--that's what really shocked him on the tape.
How ironic that the dinner last night Goodell bowed out of was an Elie Wiesel foundation promoting "ethical decision-making" to combat "indifference"--Richardson cried getting his award.
I think these guys have a hard time facing that a lot of their employees are psychopaths.
 
The data don't support the assertion that NFL players are less law-abiding or more prone to violence than other 20-something men.
 
They are probably not as law-abiding or nonviolent as other young men of similar means, but that probably has more to do with their socioeconomic backgrounds than it does with playing football -- most people who are wealthy by age 30 come from privileged backgrounds, and that's not true for NFL players.
 

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JayMags71 said:
What has Goodell done that's caused franchise values to increase? What initiatives has he spearheaded? What actions has he taken that helped increase profits? Like others have said, the term "empty suit" was invented for people like him.
 
He launched a "medical" journal and sponsored studies in an attempt to undermine links between head injuries and CTE. I'm sure the owners recognize that that helped their bottom line.
 

coremiller

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You can't compare the New Jersey DA's handling of the case with the NFL's.  They serve totally different purposes.
 
Enforcement of the NFL's personal conduct policy isn't about achieving justice or deterring wrongdoing or any of the traditional purposes of the criminal justice system.  It's about ensuring that the audience feels comfortable rooting for the players on the field and consuming the product.  It's essentially a marketing function, designed to protect and reinforce the sense of identification between the fans and the players.  
 
This why there is no consistency in the NFL's sentencing regime.  Punishments have been designed to fit the PR impact of the offense rather than the nature of the offense itself.    So you have Ben Roethlisberger getting four games despite never even being charged or even arrested, basically because he's a famous QB and so his case generated a lot of media attention, and Terrelle Pryor getting five games for accepting gifts before he even joined the league, while Brandon Marshall got only one game for a DUI and domestic violence arrest combined.  Historically, Rice's 2-game suspension for a first-time DV offender is pretty typical.  What happened with Rice is that the NFL screwed up the PR impact/punishment calibration because they didn't properly account for the PR impact of the video (even the less shocking initial version).  Then they botched just about everything after that trying to clean up the mess, because they couldn't tell the truth, which was that hardly anyone would have cared about the suspension length if there hadn't been a video.
 

OnWisc

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Scriblerus said:
This investigation is yet another smokescreen.  It should take a couple of days at the most, but I agree with Spike, it will be weeks if not months.  Goodell isn't going away, and the investigation even gives the NFL the ability to defer answering any further questions as they might relate to the Ravens or other players with DV suspensions.  It also gives the NFL time to decide who to throw under the bus, pay off, and fire so they can corroborate Goodell's story. 
 
The NFLs best case scenario now is to circle the wagons, admit that the tape was delivered but not passed on to the proper people, fire someone, apologize for the confusion, and then praise themselves for having the most strict policy on DV is all of professional sports.  The investigation gives the whole thing credibility to the public.
I don't think that the investigation, initially, will lend much credibility. I think most of the public will view it as little more than, as you say, a smokescreen. That said, it will provide espn analysts cover to put the issue on the back burner for a few weeks and get back to focusing on what Manziel had for dinner and churning out power rankings. A few days of that may turn down the pressure a bit. Or the public may just slap the investigation aside as they have every other attempt at spin and that'll be it for Roger. If commentary around the league continues to focus on Goodell and Rice and not the games through the weekend, I think the owners will feel it's time to make a move.

Seeing as they can't really announce an investigation and then make a move before it's conclusion, I'd anticipate that it wraps up very quickly, absolves Goodell of direct blame but he takes the fall for allowing things to happen "on his watch," and resigns. I've seen nothing so far indicating that the NFL will put this issue behind them and get the focus back where they want it as long as Goodell remains.

I just hope we avoid a congressional investigation and all the associated posturing and rhetorical questions.
 

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twibnotes said:
One wonders if Kraft would have been an overseer but for his public backing of Goodell
Kraft shot himself in the foot and needs to be kept far away from this. He is tight with Goodell to begin with and his remarks the other morning support the notion that he has prejudged some issues in Goodell's favor.

Predictably, we have this morning on the Globe website from Eric Wilbur, "Like It Or Not, Spygate Is Now Back As Part of the Goodell Discussion"

It's crazy, but that's what happens when you have an influential owner running point for the Commiissioner on national TV when the NFL office is running a disinformation campaign to spin it's way out of this.
 

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Bongorific said:
The NFL has created a sports crack but they aren't the best dealers on the block.
 
 
They are good at extortion, though: build us a new stadium or we'll abandon your city. They're also good at promoting betting on football {the scrupulous injury reports}, which has been the major driver of the NFL's mindshare for decades. Oh, and unlike illegal drug dealers, they have the government at their disposal to keep rival druglords from moving in on their territories.
 

mauf

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Harry Hooper said:
 
 
They are good at extortion, though: build us a new stadium or we'll abandon your city. They're also good at promoting betting on football {the scrupulous injury reports}, which has been the major driver of the NFL's mindshare for decades. Oh, and unlike illegal drug dealers, they have the government at their disposal to keep rival druglords from moving in on their territories.
 
How many new stadium deals have been inked during Goodell's tenure?
 
I'm asking -- I don't know the answer. My impression is that Tagliabue presided over the boom in publicly-funded stadium construction, and that few places have opened since Goodell took the helm that weren't in the works before then, but I could be wrong.
 

glennhoffmania

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Shelterdog said:
 
 
Could you explain why you think he's a failure? Because, honestly, he's been pretty awesome at his job--making NFL owners richer. The fucking Bills just sold for 1.4 billion dollars.
 
Honest question.  How bad would a commissioner have to be for the NFL to not make billions of dollars?  How much of the success is really attributable to Goodell? 
 
I think pretty much any fairly intelligent business person could run this league and make it very successful.  It's the product, not the management, that deserves the credit.
 

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twibnotes said:
Worth noting also that Kraft was a major factor in getting labor issues settled. If I'm one of the owners, I'd expect my $44 million to get me a guy who doesn't need that rescue intervention in the biggest negotiation of his tenure.
I'll bet they were running the old good cop bad cop. It's not unusual for the principals to step in at the end,give some concessions and act nice.
 

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OnWisc said:
I don't think that the investigation, initially, will lend much credibility. I think most of the public will view it as little more than, as you say, a smokescreen. That said, it will provide espn analysts cover to put the issue on the back burner for a few weeks and get back to focusing on what Manziel had for dinner and churning out power rankings. A few days of that may turn down the pressure a bit. Or the public may just slap the investigation aside as they have every other attempt at spin and that'll be it for Roger. If commentary around the league continues to focus on Goodell and Rice and not the games through the weekend, I think the owners will feel it's time to make a move.

Seeing as they can't really announce an investigation and then make a move before it's conclusion, I'd anticipate that it wraps up very quickly, absolves Goodell of direct blame but he takes the fall for allowing things to happen "on his watch," and resigns. I've seen nothing so far indicating that the NFL will put this issue behind them and get the focus back where they want it as long as Goodell remains.

I just hope we avoid a congressional investigation and all the associated posturing and rhetorical questions.
There is a lot of work to be done if you're going to so this right, but it's not terribly difficult and can be done relatively quickly if you bring the resources to bear. Still, we're talking about weeks.

The first step is to lock down and secure every internal communication re RR. The do-not-destroy collection memo is in the works this morning if it hasn't already gone out.

All of that stuff needs to be reviewed, and everyone who had anything to do with this needs to be interviewed

If they are being thorough, this will encompass the Baltimore Ravens.

You also have to reach out to 3rd parties -- the casino, the NJ authorities and the press. I don't know how much help TMZ and the AP will give them, but they could certainly move this along.

For example, one of the first things I would do is contact the AP and say, I'm not asking you to betray your source but please tell me the specific date that tape was sent to the NFL office and tell me how it was sent. Assuming it was sent through a delivery service, it would be very easy to track shipments into the office that day and figure out the likely recipient of the tape, even if he or she does not step forward.

Once you find that individual, this begins to unravel pretty quickly. If you're careful, this is like shooting fish on a barrel.
 

Average Reds

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glennhoffmania said:
 
Honest question.  How bad would a commissioner have to be for the NFL to not make billions of dollars?  How much of the success is really attributable to Goodell? 
 
I think pretty much any fairly intelligent business person could run this league and make it very successful.  It's the product, not the management, that deserves the credit.
 
Honest answer:  As it relates to labor strategy, TV contracts and other negotiated revenue streams, it depends almost entirely on his ability to keep the owners functioning as a single team.  We don't know, but I suspect that Goodell is very, very good at this and this is a significant part of his value.
 
Unfortunately, these are specialized skills used within the cocoon of NFL ownership.  They don't tend to translate well to the kind of real world problems he has tried to manage over the past two months.
 

Comfortably Lomb

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wade boggs chicken dinner said:
Wait a minute. Everything I've seen said that Pistorius was acquitted of murder - which in SA means premeditated. As far as I know, there are lesser charges that still need to be decided and the judge even said that Pistorius was negligent and his conduct unreasonable.

I've not followed the Pistorius trial extensively, but I have looked into it and I can't say that clearing him of premeditation is clear error.
 
Yea, right now the SA court has said he's clear of premeditated murder. Which is arguable but it doesn't appear to be clear error. As seems to always be the case with high-profile the trials now, the people who disagree with the outcome scream bloody murder and start spinning/distorting the facts and bitching about the system. Whether he is on the hook for a less charge is still up in the air. I know almost nothing about the SA legal system but it seems like they can work their way down the list from the most severe to least severe charges.
 

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Average Reds said:
 
Honest answer:  As it relates to labor strategy, TV contracts and other negotiated revenue streams, it depends almost entirely on his ability to keep the owners functioning as a single team.  We don't know, but I suspect that Goodell is very, very good at this and this is a significant part of his value.
 
Unfortunately, these are specialized skills used within the cocoon of NFL ownership.  They don't tend to translate well to the kind of real world problems he has tried to manage over the past two months.
I was about to post something similar-lots of people could handle the technical aspects of the job but it's a lot harder when your bosses are Jerry Jones, Dan Snyder and company
 

OnWisc

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dcmissle said:
There is a lot of work to be done if you're going to so this right, but it's not terribly difficult and can be done relatively quickly if you bring the resources to bear. Still, we're talking about weeks.
The first step is to lock down and secure every internal communication re RR. The do-not-destroy collection memo is in the works this morning if it hasn't already gone out.
All of that stuff needs to be reviewed, and everyone who had anything to do with this needs to be interviewed
If they are being thorough, this will encompass the Baltimore Ravens.
You also have to reach out to 3rd parties -- the casino, the NJ authorities and the press. I don't know how much help TMZ and the AP will give them, but they could certainly move this along.
For example, one of the first things I would do is contact the AP and say, I'm not asking you to betray your source but please tell me the specific date that tape was sent to the NFL office and tell me how it was sent. Assuming it was sent through a delivery service, it would be very easy to track shipments into the office that day and figure out the likely recipient of the tape, even if he or she does not step forward.
Once you find that individual, this begins to unravel pretty quickly. If you're careful, this is like shooting fish on a barrel.
I don't doubt any of this- my comment was more geared toward the fact that if the public essentially calls bullshit on the investigation and the announcement does nothing to stem the vitriol directed toward Goodell and the NFL, that the owners may not want to put up with it for the weeks it would take to conduct the process you described. Especially when Goodell and his lieutenants, in my opinion, already know exactly who saw the video and when, and that the investigation would be more about determining the most palatable scenario about "what really happened" to the tape and constructing an airtight commentary around it.
 

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I know he writes for shtick but damn, Drew Magary puts it best to me:
 
 
So, this is all fairly simple now. Thanks to an AP report that contradicted every shitty, lawyered-up statement that he made on national TV this week, Roger Goodell is a proven liar. No one in the NFL saw the Ray Rice elevator tape? LIE. Couldn't legally obtain the tape? LIE. Didn't know what was on the tape? LIE LIE LIE BIG FUCKING LIE. He's a liar, but also so much more! He's an autocrat, a bully, an enabler, a stooge, an egomaniac, and a corrupt loon. And he needs to be fired....
 
But fuck that. Things can change. One—one—reporter can explain exactly how the fuck it is that league sources told him or her what was on that tape months ago, or one owner's wife can be like, "How can you keep that asshole around?" and suddenly phone calls are made. The dam breaks, just as it did yesterday afternoon when the AP took a shit in Roger Goodell's mouth. He is a millstone around the NFL's neck—a DISTRACTION, even—and the sooner he's gone, the better. Fire that asshole.
 

Harry Hooper

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dcmissle said:
There is a lot of work to be done if you're going to so this right, but it's not terribly difficult and can be done relatively quickly if you bring the resources to bear. Still, we're talking about weeks.

The first step is to lock down and secure every internal communication re RR. The do-not-destroy collection memo is in the works this morning if it hasn't already gone out.

All of that stuff needs to be reviewed, and everyone who had anything to do with this needs to be interviewed

If they are being thorough, this will encompass the Baltimore Ravens.

You also have to reach out to 3rd parties -- the casino, the NJ authorities and the press. I don't know how much help TMZ and the AP will give them, but they could certainly move this along.

For example, one of the first things I would do is contact the AP and say, I'm not asking you to betray your source but please tell me the specific date that tape was sent to the NFL office and tell me how it was sent. Assuming it was sent through a delivery service, it would be very easy to track shipments into the office that day and figure out the likely recipient of the tape, even if he or she does not step forward.

Once you find that individual, this begins to unravel pretty quickly. If you're careful, this is like shooting fish on a barrel.
 
Are you suggesting the NFL really doesn't already know who received the video? Or, are you talking about who gets named in the fictional narrative that the video was received and spiked without the knowledge of multiple NFL staff?
 

Fred in Lynn

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Van Everyman said:
If Congress calls hearings, that strategy is dead in the water.

I think they've made a mistake framing this investigation as "independent." Exhibit A: Andrew Cuomo. Exhibit B: Mara and Rooney are overseeing this.

And Exhibit C: Mueller, who no matter how much integrity he has, is not independent. He works for the guys who negotiated the league's most important TV deal. As terrible as Bud Selig is, I don't recall him ever suggesting that the Mitchell Report was independent. And whatever its flaws, that report ended up being a game-changer in terms of how baseball and its drug policies.

Seems like another unnecessary PR blunder.
Muller's firm doesn't work for the NFL, they've been contracted by the NFL to provide a service. You've set an incredibly high and unusual bar here. It is customary for Muller only to establish that a real or perceived conflict of interest not exist, e.g., someone on his project team doesn't hold ownership in an NFL team, etc.

It's a contracted service for a non-criminal inquiry. The process is wholly appropriate.

Edit: Moreover, I can't imagine why Muller would seek to produce an inferior product. His work will be on record for all to see. The NFL is just one of countless potential clients.
 

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Shelterdog said:
I was about to post something similar-lots of people could handle the technical aspects of the job but it's a lot harder when your bosses are Jerry Jones, Dan Snyder and company
 
Sure, but does Goodell have some kind of unique skill set that 99.999% of the people in the world lack so that he should stick around despite all of his warts?  No one else could oversee a league on autopilot while keeping harmony among Jerry, Dan and company?
 

NickEsasky

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Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
I know he writes for shtick but damn, Drew Magary puts it best to me:
 
I certainly think he deserves to lose his job over this shitshow. But the next guy is still going to be a stooge for the owners given a job at a company that has a license to print money. Nothing will change except the name -- and gingerness. 
 

Stitch01

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dcmissle said:
Kraft shot himself in the foot and needs to be kept far away from this. He is tight with Goodell to begin with and his remarks the other morning support the notion that he has prejudged some issues in Goodell's favor.

Predictably, we have this morning on the Globe website from Eric Wilbur, "Like It Or Not, Spygate Is Now Back As Part of the Goodell Discussion"

It's crazy, but that's what happens when you have an influential owner running point for the Commiissioner on national TV when the NFL office is running a disinformation campaign to spin it's way out of this.
That's what you get when a message board troll like Wilbur gets a forum as a semi-professional writer.
 

JayMags71

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maufman said:
Off the top of my head:
 
-- Consistent top-line and bottom-line growth in a sport where many people felt demand was saturated, and in an economic environment where other sports that experienced strong growth in the 1990s and early 2000s (NASCAR, golf) have struggled.
 
-- Favorable labor agreement where the league extracted concessions from a well-run players' union without a work stoppage. (An offseason lockout doesn't count.)
 
-- Favorable settlement of lawsuits by former players relating to head injuries. This is an underrated achievement..
Fair enough. I can accept I was a little hyperbolic.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Stitch01 said:
That's what you get when a message board troll like Wilbur gets a forum as a semi-professional writer.
 
SoSH has already been declared an Eric Wilbur-free zone. Did it on the main board a while ago. Never mention him or anything he writes again. He's the biggest piece of shit in the Boston media, and that's saying something.
 

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Stitch01 said:
That's what you get when a message board troll like Wilbur gets a forum as a semi-professional writer.
 
I'm not even going to give the clicks to read it, but is the insinuation that somehow the Pats got off easy because Kraft and Goodell were buddy buddy? I'm sure it's the whole "destroyed the tapes" part...
 

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maufman said:
 
How many new stadium deals have been inked during Goodell's tenure?
 
I'm asking -- I don't know the answer. My impression is that Tagliabue presided over the boom in publicly-funded stadium construction, and that few places have opened since Goodell took the helm that weren't in the works before then, but I could be wrong.
 
Four
 
MetLife - broke ground in 2007, privately funded I think. It was probably in planning stages when he was hired
Levi's - 2014
New Vikings stadium
New Atlanta stadium
 

Average Reds

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glennhoffmania said:
 
Sure, but does Goodell have some kind of unique skill set that 99.999% of the people in the world lack so that he should stick around despite all of his warts?  No one else could oversee a league on autopilot while keeping harmony among Jerry, Dan and company?
 
Don't underestimate the difficulty of getting league owners to act as a united front on anything.  More to the point, I'd say there is a limited universe of people that could pull it off.  Rozelle couldn't do it.  Tagliabue couldn't.  Goodell has and the league has prospered because of it. 
 
Given the personalities of the various owners, this is a very formidable accomplishment. 
 

Stitch01

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Ed Hillel said:
 
I'm not even going to give the clicks to read it, but is the insinuation that somehow the Pats got off easy because Kraft and Goodell were buddy buddy? I'm sure it's the whole "destroyed the tapes" part...
I'll just give you this little taste of lol without comment, then we can laugh at Wilbur being a barometer for anything and go back to regular programming.
 
The Patriots and Goodell buddy Bob Kraft were slapped on the wrist to the tune of a first-round draft pick, which, really, Belichick tends to waste in most cases anyway
 
 

curly2

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Pardon the long tanget/thread derail, but for people who argue what a great job Goodell's done, I maintain that Pete Rozelle, Paul Tagliabue and Roger Goodell are all overrated. The reasons the league does so well are:
 
1. It's a great sport and it plays great on TV. In fact, it may be the one sport that plays BETTER on TV.
 
2. Revenue sharing, set up in the early days of the league by the Rooneys, Maras, Halas, etc.
 
3. Gambling. It's the perfect sport to bet on. It's once a week, so healthy players never get a game off, and everyone thinks they can beat it, either by straight betting, on in office pools. And fantasy is part of this.
 
4. Innovations that came from people outside the NFL: NFL Films (Ed and Steve Sabol), The Super Bowl (Lamar Hunt of the AFL); Monday Night Football (Roone Arledge; televising the draft (ESPN when it had no programming and was desperate for something to put on the air) and fantasy football (the Rotisserie baseball league inventors). All of these were huge in boosting the NFL and NONE of them actually originated from the NFL.
 
5. Last but certainly not least, a weak (at best) and incompetent (at worst) players union. 
 
 

mauf

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Infield Infidel said:
 
Four
 
MetLife - broke ground in 2007, privately funded I think. It was probably in planning stages when he was hired
Levi's - 2014
New Vikings stadium
New Atlanta stadium
 
Thanks for that. Confirms what I thought -- new stadiums haven't been a big thing during Goodell's tenure.
 

Shelterdog

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glennhoffmania said:
 
Sure, but does Goodell have some kind of unique skill set that 99.999% of the people in the world lack so that he should stick around despite all of his warts?  No one else could oversee a league on autopilot while keeping harmony among Jerry, Dan and company?
His skills aren't unique but his knowledge and relationships developed over a long career aren't easily replicable. Lots of people could do his job if they put in twenty years in the industry but that's a big if.
 

mauf

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curly2 said:
Pardon the long tanget/thread derail, but for people who argue what a great job Goodell's done, I maintain that Pete Rozelle, Paul Tagliabue and Roger Goodell are all overrated. The reasons the league does so well are:
 
1. It's a great sport and it plays great on TV. In fact, it may be the one sport that plays BETTER on TV.
 
2. Revenue sharing, set up in the early days of the league by the Rooneys, Maras, Halas, etc.
 
3. Gambling. It's the perfect sport to bet on. It's once a week, so healthy players never get a game off, and everyone thinks they can beat it, either by straight betting, on in office pools. And fantasy is part of this.
 
4. Innovations that came from people outside the NFL: NFL Films (Ed and Steve Sabol), The Super Bowl (Lamar Hunt of the AFL); Monday Night Football (Roone Arledge; televising the draft (ESPN when it had no programming and was desperate for something to put on the air) and fantasy football (the Rotisserie baseball league inventors). All of these were huge in boosting the NFL and NONE of them actually originated from the NFL.
 
5. Last but certainly not least, a weak (at best) and incompetent (at worst) players union. 
 
 
Virtually all of the factors you cite were in place a decade ago, yet the league has continued to grow.
 
In any field of endeavor, you can argue that we overemphasize the importance of key individuals, because that's better than believing that life is driven by large, impersonal forces that are mostly beyond our control. You won't find many billionaires who buy that argument, for the obvious reason. Therefore, it makes sense that the NFL's billionaire owners believe Goodell deserves some credit for their success over the past several years. I tend to think there's some truth in their belief.
 

dcmissle

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I don't doubt any of this- my comment was more geared toward the fact that if the public essentially calls bullshit on the investigation and the announcement does nothing to stem the vitriol directed toward Goodell and the NFL, that the owners may not want to put up with it for the weeks it would take to conduct the process you described. Especially when Goodell and his lieutenants, in my opinion, already know exactly who saw the video and when, and that the investigation would be more about determining the most palatable scenario about "what really happened" to the tape and constructing an airtight commentary around it.
The investigation provides an excuse to say nothing, which is a pretty big deal because the ridiculous half truths and lies that have come out of the League office this week have hurt them more than everything else. But to your point, I'm a bit surprised that Florio, now a wholly owned subsidiary of NBC and newly minted friend of Peter King, has crapped all over the Mueller choice given the law firm's ties to the League.

Still, they undoubtedly hope a fresh slate of games will push this to the back burner, and they can count on the complacency of their network partners who want this to go away more than anything. (Remember when CBS News actually stood for something!)

Their big problem is that the Associated Press appears to be gunning for a Pulitzer on this story, is genuinely independent, and is being assisted by whistleblowers who are genuinely appalled by the whitewash effort.
 

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maufman said:
 
In any field of endeavor, you can argue that we overemphasize the importance of key individuals, because that's better than believing that life is driven by large, impersonal forces that are mostly beyond our control. You won't find many billionaires who buy that argument, for the obvious reason. Therefore, it makes sense that the NFL's billionaire owners believe Goodell deserves some credit for their success over the past several years. I tend to think there's some truth in their belief.
"You didn't build that!"
 

Van Everyman

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Lots of money at stake, public and private:

The NFL needs to tread carefully here as the financial fallout could potentially be huge. The league reportedly rakes in around $9 billion in revenue every year, and as Yahoo Finance’s Mike Santoli and Jeff Macke discuss in the attached video, the last thing the NFL needs is another PR hit that could rattle corporate sponsors.

“Financially the NFL has always been this very protected, very, very lucrative micro-economy, they have an anti-trust exemption, they are a not-for-profit on the books,” Santoli notes. Scandals like the ones involving Rice, the bullying of Dolphin’s offensive lineman Jonathan Martin, and the NFL’s ongoing concussion litigation are only deepening the government’s resolve into opening the books on the NFL’s inner workings, as Macke astutely points out 70% of the costs for stadiums and facilities for NFL teams are borne by taxpayers. The stakes, both from private and public coffers, are tremendous.

Will getting rid of Goodell solve the NFL’s image problem, at least for the sake of sponsors? While groups like the National Organization of Woman are calling for Goodell’s head, owners and sponsors aren’t going that far, hoping time will help weather the storm.

“I do think the corporate sponsors are exactly doing that (hoping it fades away), hoping that this is just a thing you have to absorb and deal with. They’ve already bought the season’s commercials, they’re trying to see if they can get the attention back on football,” Santoli says. “This is a league by the way that weathered the Michael Vick dogfighting thing… it seems like nothing [usually] sticks, but it can change if you have this sense that the NFL can’t handle it’s own affairs, that you need the government in there.”
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/goodell--nfl-in-fight-to-save-public-image-as-rice-scandal-deepens-152106356.html