Round 1 - Florida

Ale Xander

Hamilton
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
65,897
If the injury is an adductor/abductor or hip flexor, that’s a fireable offense

even more so when you have the best backup in the league
 

Salem's Lot

Andy Moog! Andy God Damn Moog!
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
13,179
Gallows Hill
They must really not trust Swayman in the playoffs for some reason. Why you would play an injured goalie in a playoff game is beyond me unless you think his back up really sucks.
 

Haunted

The Man in the Box
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2006
5,977
Even if he was healthy as an ox, he played like dogshit in game 5 and 6 and absolutely shouldn't have started either of them.
 

wiffleballhero

Member
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Mar 28, 2009
4,339
In the simulacrum
It's hardly like Swayman is terrible either. There's just no logic to playing Ullmark when he's that injured.
An important job of a coach is to know that athletes -- the athletes you want -- are competitive to a fault: if you ask a gamer if he can play, even if he is standing there like this guy below, he'll still say, 'put me in.'

Monty has to make the call there. Managerial failure, if that is what happened.


Monty Python Fight GIF
 

cshea

Member
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Nov 15, 2006
34,720
306, row 14
Yes, if that is true, that is potentially a fireable offense.

I think this would be far worse than Butch and Rask against the Islanders.
 

jezza1918

Member
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Jul 19, 2005
2,204
South Dartmouth, MA
If the injury is an adductor/abductor or hip flexor, that’s a fireable offense

even more so when you have the best backup in the league
i would take it a small step further in that Swayman isn't even a backiup, in the classic sense of the word. The two alternated just about every game for 70% of the season or so.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
34,364
Hingham, MA
I fucking knew that the goalie situation would end up biting them in the ass. God fucking dammit
 
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cshea

Member
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Nov 15, 2006
34,720
306, row 14
First time around there was atleast cause for concern over the backup, then a rookie with 10 games of NHL experience and had been idle for almost a month.

This time around there's no fucking excuse. The same backup from 2021 now has 3 years of NHL experience and was basically a top 10 goalie in the league this year. If Ullmark had a torn labrum or any sort of debilitating injury it's malpractice to put him in net for 1 game let alone 6.
 

katnado

lurker
Aug 14, 2016
1,199
Alaska
If that's accurate than Monty Needs to be fired immediately. There's absolutely no excuse for coaching malpractice like that. That's 100000 times worse than Butchy with Rask.
 

durandal1707

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 18, 2007
5,644
An important job of a coach is to know that athletes -- the athletes you want -- are competitive to a fault: if you ask a gamer if he can play, even if he is standing there like this guy below, he'll still say, 'put me in.'

Monty has to make the call there. Managerial failure, if that is what happened.
If I dare say, I believe this wisdom also applies to Bergeron and Krejci in this series. Maybe it's a bit of a wild extrapolation, but I don't think it's a coincidence that the Bruins' best games in this series were the games where those two were out: 52% xGF and 4-2 final in Game 3, 62% xGF and 6-2 actual goals in Game 4.

Now this is pure hindsight, but maybe don't mess with something that's working? Coyle and Zacha stepped up big as 1C and 2C, and indeed got better in their second game in those roles. Instead, Montgomery injects an injured Bergeron into the mix, and then decides to run the lines through the blender for... reasons?

I get that this year was viewed as the last ride of Bergeron and Krejci and there's rightfully a lot of sentimentality was wrapped up in that. And Game 5 was a home game which made for a convenient "triumphant return", but the Bruins were in good shape and had dominated the previous game. Now maybe Coyle and Zacha don't keep up their great play, but then you break the glass for the emergency Bergeron if the Bs drop Game 5. It certainly seems like Bergeron and Krejci were granted spots without a thorough examination of how their injuries would impact their competitiveness.

Now this is just going off vibes, but Montgomery strikes me as a "players' coach" because he goes along with his players and might be a bit conflict-averse with them. But as you say, being a head coach means having to make some tough calls, and the players are not always the best judges of their ability. This team was extraordinarily deep as Games 3 and 4 proved, and mistrusting that depth is an absolutely mystifying decision. Especially to what we're hearing with regards to Ullmark and Swayman.
 

cshea

Member
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Nov 15, 2006
34,720
306, row 14
I had a feeling after game 4 that Ullmark's injury was worse than they were letting on. They pulled him after trying to fight Tkachuk, with Monty trying to explain that they were just trying to protect him for additional scrums. Except Ullmark went straight down the tunnel and was unavailable to meet the media because he was receiving treatment. That was the blinking red light on the dashboard.

They then talked themselves into well he's given us the chance to win the past 2, let's just get through game 5. He was OK in game 5, though gave up 2 high danger goals of which you'd like a stop on one of them but also can't really write them up as 'bad' goals against. The OT winner was a clusterfuck of his own doing not related to stopping the puck. So they must've thought well OK, let's try again. And disaster. But it was never out of hand. It was always 1 goal up or down. So it never dawned on them that this guy isn't going to get it done.

An amazing own goal. Unfathomablty stupid. They had the best regular season in history thanks in large part to an every-other goalie rotation featuring the Vezina winner and another top 10 goalie in the league. Then one of them gets hurt, quite badly by the reports, and the group think is to stick with him until game 7. If Monty had the final say, that is fireable.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

Throw Momma From the Train
Dope
May 20, 2003
34,719
Deep inside Muppet Labs
Goalie Bob needs to stay, he's gotten Vezina performances from 3 different goalies here and he's great at what he does. Monty's odd comment about "That was Bob's decision" is bananapants buck-passing; for all we know Bob was saying to start Swayman and Monty was pushing back against that.
 
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John Marzano Olympic Hero

has fancy plans, and pants to match
Dope
Apr 12, 2001
23,686
Yes, if that is true, that is potentially a fireable offense.

I think this would be far worse than Butch and Rask against the Islanders.
But wouldn't Sweeney or Neely know this information too? I would assume that either they a. signed off on it or b. didn't think it was a big enough deal to tell Monte to change goalies. I would guess that this information went all the way up the chain, right?
 

wiffleballhero

Member
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Mar 28, 2009
4,339
In the simulacrum
I'm as mad as anyone but nobody is getting fired here, they just aren't. And SoSH discussions working over who is getting canned are just wishcasting out of the frustration.
 

cshea

Member
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Nov 15, 2006
34,720
306, row 14
But wouldn't Sweeney or Neely know this information too? I would assume that either they a. signed off on it or b. didn't think it was a big enough deal to tell Monte to change goalies. I would guess that this information went all the way up the chain, right?
Monty said "we" several times when discussing the goalie situation. I'm positive they have staff meeting to discuss goalies. I know they do in the regular season to map things out so I don't see why they wouldn't for the playoffs. Whether or not the front office is involved in the process, who knows. I'd imagine in a case like this they are and make recommendations but the ultimate decision maker is Monty.
 

Mystic Merlin

Member
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Sep 21, 2007
44,971
Hartford, CT
At least Grady merely left Pedro in too long in one game despite visible fatigue and stats suggesting his effectiveness dropped off precipitously after 100 pitches. They were rolling out Ullmark for several games.
 

MiracleOfO2704

not AWOL
SoSH Member
Jul 12, 2005
9,246
The Island
But wouldn't Sweeney or Neely know this information too? I would assume that either they a. signed off on it or b. didn't think it was a big enough deal to tell Monte to change goalies. I would guess that this information went all the way up the chain, right?
Likely, but what’s your recourse? Fire him midway through the series? Do something over his head to take the decision out of his hands?
 

Haunted

The Man in the Box
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2006
5,977
I'm as mad as anyone but nobody is getting fired here, they just aren't. And SoSH discussions working over who is getting canned are just wishcasting out of the frustration.
You're probably right, and that ardent resistance to any kind of accountability is another reason I want the entire management team blasted into space.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

has fancy plans, and pants to match
Dope
Apr 12, 2001
23,686
Likely, but what’s your recourse? Fire him midway through the series? Do something over his head to take the decision out of his hands?
Sweeney and Neely are his bosses at the end of the day, correct? And if they were like, "This is a bad idea Jim we strongly suggest that you don't play Ullmark.", do you think Montgomery plays him?

I'm not saying Montgomery isn't to blame here, because I think as the Head Coach he should take the lion's share. But if S&N are going to use him as a scapegoat (which I doubt that they do, FTR) it's going to be a little disingenuous. Especially if we're comparing this to Grady/Pedro. To continue with the scenario, it's not like Theo came down to the dugout at the end of the seventh and told Grady to take him out and Grady ignored him. Grady went on gut, got his gut handed to him and then got his walking papers.

Like cshea said, there was probably a meeting where S&N signed off and said that they were okay with Monte's recommendation.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

critical thinker
SoSH Member
Dec 19, 2009
9,386
Then Sweeney and Neely have to go, too. It's time. Jacobs has to just fire the entire front office, all the scouts and coaches, and even the equipment people. Blow it sky high and throw every single one of them under the bus in a statement so venomous that they never work in hockey again. Offer a blank check to the top coaches, GMs, etc., to come in and suffer through to build a winner.

But it's Jacobs, so all that will matter is the ticket revenue.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
34,364
Hingham, MA
With all due respect to everyone here - I don’t care if anyone gets fired or not. It won’t alleviate any of the pain of watching this historic season go down in flames. I want to believe that Monty got this team to perform at their peak (hello, JDB). And that he can figure out how to be better himself next year, especially in April (and hopefully May).
 

Mr. Wednesday

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
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Jul 27, 2007
1,576
Eastern MA
I had a feeling after game 4 that Ullmark's injury was worse than they were letting on. They pulled him after trying to fight Tkachuk, with Monty trying to explain that they were just trying to protect him for additional scrums. Except Ullmark went straight down the tunnel and was unavailable to meet the media because he was receiving treatment. That was the blinking red light on the dashboard.

They then talked themselves into well he's given us the chance to win the past 2, let's just get through game 5. He was OK in game 5, though gave up 2 high danger goals of which you'd like a stop on one of them but also can't really write them up as 'bad' goals against. The OT winner was a clusterfuck of his own doing not related to stopping the puck. So they must've thought well OK, let's try again. And disaster. But it was never out of hand. It was always 1 goal up or down. So it never dawned on them that this guy isn't going to get it done.

An amazing own goal. Unfathomablty stupid. They had the best regular season in history thanks in large part to an every-other goalie rotation featuring the Vezina winner and another top 10 goalie in the league. Then one of them gets hurt, quite badly by the reports, and the group think is to stick with him until game 7. If Monty had the final say, that is fireable.
The thing that's been pissing me off since I heard it was when they said Ullmark was a "game-time decision" for one of the games (game 5, I think). If he's a "game-time decision," there should be no decision at all, he should be sitting and Swayman should be starting. I can live with feeling like you need to ride Ullmark when he's healthy and playing well, but the team's depth was a huge advantage this season, and part of the way you take advantage of that depth is by not pushing players who are significantly below 100%.

It's all the more ridiculous considering how a significant factor in losing last year was Tuukka playing hurt.
 

Eddie Jurak

canderson-lite
Lifetime Member
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Dec 12, 2002
42,253
Melrose, MA
Swayman was good in game 7, if McAvoy doesn't tip the tying goal past him the Bruins win. Inexcusable to play a seriously injured Ullmark over him - whoever made that decision should be gone.
 

Boston Brawler

Member
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Jan 17, 2011
9,702
I really hope that Ullmark’s true status comes out during the exit interviews the next couple days. If he was really that injured, Monty needs to be gone asap.
 

RSN Diaspora

molests goats for comedy
SoSH Member
Jul 29, 2005
10,737
Washington, DC
Tradition?
I know this is tongue in cheek, but sometimes tradition should win out, sometimes it makes sense to leave your veteran workhorse in. But most of the time you should just put Dave Stapleton in to play the tenth. *If* Ully was as badly injured as people are hypothesizing, *and* Monty knew, he should be canned tomorrow, full stop.
 

wiffleballhero

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 28, 2009
4,339
In the simulacrum
Watching these locker room interviews from today is gutting.

McAvoy just seems so saddened and listening to Krejci is just brutal. He sounds like he's in shock.

In a sense it is also heartening because they seem as wrecked as posters on SoSH.

Listening to Bergy, to me he does not sound like a guy who is done. Krejci neither actually.

And I want all of these guys back!