Sale to IL with “left shoulder inflammation.”

The Gray Eagle

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It's like last season never ended. Under .500, stupid plays, giving up way too many runs, waiting around for Sale and Story to come back from injury... it's a neverending loop.
It's like if Wile E. Coyote starred in Groundhog Day.
 

chrisfont9

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Also read this if you are one of the people who were wondering what took so long:

https://www.cubsinsider.com/2018/08/22/so-what-exactly-is-a-stress-reaction-and-what-does-it-mean-for-darvishs-future/

Darvish is another stress reaction victim (his elbow) and missed a lot of 2018, although partly because it took a while to diagnose. Not sure if there are any other examples besides de Grom and Wacha. All of those guys recovered (although de Grom obviously just moved on to the next broken body part).
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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At his age and his clear fragility, do medical professionals on here think this is it for Sale?
I'm not a medical expert but I doubt very much that it's career ending in any way.

My question for the docs would be is this something that can be prevented (by usage or training) and is it something that can recur?
 

A Bad Man

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DeGrom had the same injury last year. It took four months for him to return to the bigs, so this could be it for Sale 2023. Maybe optimistically he makes it back sometime in September.
 

BigSoxFan

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Goddamit. Not remotely surprised given his history, but was hoping against hope he might give us a full-ish season of solid performance.
The annoying part is that he actually had turned the corner performance-wise over the last 7-8 starts with a 2.40ish ERA in May/June.
 

donutogre

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It's like last season never ended. Under .500, stupid plays, giving up way too many runs, waiting around for Sale and Story to come back from injury... it's a neverending loop.
It's like if Wile E. Coyote starred in Groundhog Day.
Absolutely. Watching this once was MORE than enough. What a kick to the groin the last month has been.
 

chrisfont9

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1.8 bWAR for $117.5M since the extension kicked in.
Dombro rushing that extension out was absurd when it happened, as I am pretty sure a bunch of us were saying then. His body was clearly breaking down in 2018. There was very little risk that he'd be completely healthy in 2019 and leave for big money somewhere else. Loads of us IIRC were willing to let him play out his walk year and re-sign him based on whether he got healthy in 2019. Dombro getting fired four months later seems related, although maybe the story has already been told? Can't remember. I like Sale, and still believe he can get healthy (can, not will) and add to his legacy. But the extension was either paying for past performances or an even less sane evaluation of his immediate future prospects.
 

joe dokes

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Dombro rushing that extension out was absurd when it happened, as I am pretty sure a bunch of us were saying then. His body was clearly breaking down in 2018. There was very little risk that he'd be completely healthy in 2019 and leave for big money somewhere else. Loads of us IIRC were willing to let him play out his walk year and re-sign him based on whether he got healthy in 2019. Dombro getting fired four months later seems related, although maybe the story has already been told? Can't remember. I like Sale, and still believe he can get healthy (can, not will) and add to his legacy. But the extension was either paying for past performances or an even less sane evaluation of his immediate future prospects.
The reasoning is what puzzles me. DD doesn't suck. I can usually reverse engineer some plausible rationale for just about any move made by non-shitty GMs and Mgrs. But of all Sox moves in the last several years, this is the most confounding.
 

chrisfont9

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The reasoning is what puzzles me. DD doesn't suck. I can usually reverse engineer some plausible rationale for just about any move made by non-shitty GMs and Mgrs. But of all Sox moves in the last several years, this is the most confounding.
Some possibilities:
* ownership trying to undo the Lester debacle?
* Dombro trying to save his job with splashy fan service?

Some in-real-time perspective:
https://theathletic.com/713058/2018/12/14/buckley-heres-how-red-sox-should-prioritize-their-upcoming-slate-of-big-time-free-agents/
 

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat

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The reasoning is what puzzles me. DD doesn't suck. I can usually reverse engineer some plausible rationale for just about any move made by non-shitty GMs and Mgrs. But of all Sox moves in the last several years, this is the most confounding.
I’ll admit that I actually liked the move.
But agree or, as most, not, I would guess that the reasoning is that Sale had actually been durable to that point in his career. If he remained durable, he would get crazy expensive as a free agent. Sign him early, Sale takes a discount if he stays healthy, Sox get boned if he doesn’t. We know how it turned out, but I don’t think that there isn’t at least a plausible explanation if you squint.
 

chrisfont9

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I’ll admit that I actually liked the move.
But agree or, as most, not, I would guess that the reasoning is that Sale had actually been durable to that point in his career. If he remained durable, he would get crazy expensive as a free agent. Sign him early, Sale takes a discount if he stays healthy, Sox get boned if he doesn’t. We know how it turned out, but I don’t think that there isn’t at least a plausible explanation if you squint.
If his medicals were totally clean, yeah, but when his elbow went in August, right before Dombro was booted, he gave a press conference where he said that the injury had just happened. That was ... treated with some skepticism.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Some possibilities:
* ownership trying to undo the Lester debacle?
* Dombro trying to save his job with splashy fan service?

Some in-real-time perspective:
https://theathletic.com/713058/2018/12/14/buckley-heres-how-red-sox-should-prioritize-their-upcoming-slate-of-big-time-free-agents/
Not sure how or why Dombrowski's job would have been in jeopardy less than six months after the conclusion of the best season in franchise history. I think the reason he extended Sale was pretty simple: Sale was in line for an extremely expensive free agent contract, so Dombrowski made him a competitive offer. An offer that, at the time, probably was a discount from full retail (top contract the following winter was Gerritt Cole 9/324). And Sale jumped on it.

Dombrowski was very much a "see what I want and go get it" GM, even if it might seem like the cost was a bit more than necessary. That's how he signed Price. That's how he came to trade for Sale and Kimbrel and others. Just about the only notable player he acquired via patiently waiting the player out to get a better deal was JDM. Of course, even that required a ridiculous number of opt-outs to get it done.
 

chrisfont9

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Not sure how or why Dombrowski's job would have been in jeopardy less than six months after the conclusion of the best season in franchise history. I think the reason he extended Sale was pretty simple: Sale was in line for an extremely expensive free agent contract, so Dombrowski made him a competitive offer. An offer that, at the time, probably was a discount from full retail (top contract the following winter was Gerritt Cole 9/324). And Sale jumped on it.

Dombrowski was very much a "see what I want and go get it" GM, even if it might seem like the cost was a bit more than necessary. That's how he signed Price. That's how he came to trade for Sale and Kimbrel and others. Just about the only notable player he acquired via patiently waiting the player out to get a better deal was JDM. Of course, even that required a ridiculous number of opt-outs to get it done.
Dombro's falling out is pretty well documented, if you believe stories written at the time. The Sale extension fits right squarely in there with their reasons for moving on, which you could distill down to just wanting to run it back with a team against the evidence that said it was time to turn the page.

https://www.si.com/mlb/2019/09/09/boston-red-sox-fire-dave-dombrowski
 

Quatchie

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Jul 23, 2009
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Next winter and spring when people speculate Sale will give something of vale to the team doing the season remember that he is toast. Max 50 innings in a season again if that. Done. He is what he is at this point. Sunk cost, injury prone and frail.
 

radsoxfan

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I'm not a medical expert but I doubt very much that it's career ending in any way.

My question for the docs would be is this something that can be prevented (by usage or training) and is it something that can recur?
On its own for sure not career ending or anything close to that.

But becoming a pattern that his body just can’t hold up. Already had a rib stress fracture, now a scapular stress reaction.

Not great.
 

JM3

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Yeah, there were some REALLY bad posts defending Sale's durability this offseason...
There were also some really bad posts that said he wasn't going to pitch this season because he's made of glass because of freak incidents not related to the actual pitching of a baseball.

This was my stance in January which I still believe to be correct.

Sale has missed significant amounts of time over his career & has a violent motion. It's fair to be concerned about the health of his arm. Conflating arm concerns with a broken wrist from riding a bike & a broken finger from a batted ball is where one would lose me.
 

Beomoose

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I sill wonder that Bloom was offered for him last year. I'd have taken a LOOGY and a couple lotto tickets at this rate.
 

LogansDad

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I feel fucking awful for Chris Sale. I know he's rich AF, but the dude worked so hard to get back out there. This sucks.
 

streeter88

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I feel fucking awful for Chris Sale. I know he's rich AF, but the dude worked so hard to get back out there. This sucks.
This take is the kindest I have seen in awhile. While I am convinced we won’t see Sale again this season, and continue to be frustrated by the futility of the contract, sometimes we lose sight of the human being who is struggling to achieve his goals and dealing with the setbacks day in day out. Fight on Sale!
 

Niastri

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This take is the kindest I have seen in awhile. While I am convinced we won’t see Sale again this season, and continue to be frustrated by the futility of the contract, sometimes we lose sight of the human being who is struggling to achieve his goals and dealing with the setbacks day in day out. Fight on Sale!
And to add on, being rich doesn't necessarily make life any easier... Consider all the rich and famous celebrities that commit suicide or use drugs until death because their fabulous lives are so unliveable. Life is hard.

I feel bad for Sale as well. It sucks to be injured, it sucks to not be able to do what you love.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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Cut him as soon as he's healthy. It's over. Having him on the roster next season is a net negative. If I ever see DD in a bar, I'll be sure to dump a full cheap-ass pitcher of beer over his head, but I'll also scream "THANKS FOR 2018!" to soften the blow.

And to think people also questioned the Eovaldi deal at the same time. Would much rather that he was still here instead of this walking sports medicine ward. Oh, he's accountable? Yay! That really mattered the first few times we went through this, but it rings hollow more and more. It's great that you're so hard on yourself, Chris, but it's not winning any fucking games. Nobody on this team is drawing inspiration from you. Nobody on this team TALKS about you except the manager. Wouldn't be shocked if more than half the team just sees you as the loudmouth who always talks a big game but has rarely backed it up over the last four seasons. If they're going to pay someone to not play who used to be really good, go get Tim Lincecum. At least he'd be more enjoyable to hear from and the expectations would be set.
 

StuckOnYouk

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Upon returning would he be more durable thru the end of 2024 if we turned him into an elite reliever who could go 1-2 innings at a clip?

Forget the money, what would be the best way to keep him as a healthy and productive member of the team for the next 1 year and two months
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Upon returning would he be more durable thru the end of 2024 if we turned him into an elite reliever who could go 1-2 innings at a clip?

Forget the money, what would be the best way to keep him as a healthy and productive member of the team for the next 1 year and two months
I'm not sure how turning him into a reliever would make him more durable. Pitching fewer innings at a time but pitching more frequently is as stressful as pitching more innings at a time less frequently. We've seen pretty much every reliever on the roster this year spend some time unavailable with various ailments ranging from a stiff back to elbow surgery. I think all they can do is keep him in as good a shape as possible to pitch every fifth game and cross their fingers that something else doesn't happen.
 

moondog80

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Cut him as soon as he's healthy. It's over. Having him on the roster next season is a net negative. If I ever see DD in a bar, I'll be sure to dump a full cheap-ass pitcher of beer over his head, but I'll also scream "THANKS FOR 2018!" to soften the blow.

And to think people also questioned the Eovaldi deal at the same time. Would much rather that he was still here instead of this walking sports medicine ward. Oh, he's accountable? Yay! That really mattered the first few times we went through this, but it rings hollow more and more. It's great that you're so hard on yourself, Chris, but it's not winning any fucking games. Nobody on this team is drawing inspiration from you. Nobody on this team TALKS about you except the manager. Wouldn't be shocked if more than half the team just sees you as the loudmouth who always talks a big game but has rarely backed it up over the last four seasons. If they're going to pay someone to not play who used to be really good, go get Tim Lincecum. At least he'd be more enjoyable to hear from and the expectations would be set.
You want to wait until he’s healthy first and only then cut him?
 

Yelling At Clouds

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I get that people are and have been frustrated with Sale, but this idea that somehow Nathan Eovaldi would be less of an injury risk like he's peak Mark Buerhle or something is... revisionist history doesn't even cover it. Eovaldi has had TJS twice and missed two months with back and shoulder injuries literally last year. If he makes it through his entire Texas contract without missing time with an injury I will be astonished.
 

Rovin Romine

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This take is the kindest I have seen in awhile.
On here or twitter maybe. When healthy, Sale's an asset - he wants to pitch and if he has a flaw it's being too competitive.

Shank and his ilk are grievance mongering by pretending to be (suddenly) upset over FSG's money. If Sale was still in his arb years, or was slightly less effective, they'd be fervently wishcasting his return.
 

PapnMillsy

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Jun 10, 2023
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Cut him as soon as he's healthy. It's over. Having him on the roster next season is a net negative. If I ever see DD in a bar, I'll be sure to dump a full cheap-ass pitcher of beer over his head, but I'll also scream "THANKS FOR 2018!" to soften the blow.

And to think people also questioned the Eovaldi deal at the same time. Would much rather that he was still here instead of this walking sports medicine ward. Oh, he's accountable? Yay! That really mattered the first few times we went through this, but it rings hollow more and more. It's great that you're so hard on yourself, Chris, but it's not winning any fucking games. Nobody on this team is drawing inspiration from you. Nobody on this team TALKS about you except the manager. Wouldn't be shocked if more than half the team just sees you as the loudmouth who always talks a big game but has rarely backed it up over the last four seasons. If they're going to pay someone to not play who used to be really good, go get Tim Lincecum. At least he'd be more enjoyable to hear from and the expectations would be set.
I don’t get this post at all. Totally nonsensical. Where are you getting this stuff from Sale from? Is there any source that claims that Sale isn’t liked in that clubhouse? Everything we’ve ever heard about Sale with his teammates paints quite the opposite picture: he’s loved in that clubhouse, known for being a great teammate and I’m sure they are gutted for him. You act like they hate him and want him off the team.
 
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Mueller's Twin Grannies

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I don’t get this post at all. Totally nonsensical. Where are you getting this stuff from Sale from? Is there any source that claims that Sale isn’t liked in that clubhouse? Everything we’ve ever heard about Sale with his teammates paints quite the opposite picture: he’s loved in that clubhouse, known for being a great teammate and I’m sure they are gutted for him. You act like they hate him and want him off the team.
Find me the last quote from a current player about Chris Sale. I dare you.

And I'm not saying he's universally disliked. But, for a moment, let's use common sense. There are 26 players on the roster not named Chris Sale when he's hurt, which has been most of the last four seasons. Why would they even take him into consideration? He's averaged less than 6 starts a year since 2018. Most of the time, he's been terrible. Why would any regular on that team give two shits about a guy who always looks like he needs to put on about 15 pounds of muscle and is constantly one pitch away from the IL?
 

PapnMillsy

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Jun 10, 2023
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Find me the last quote from a current player about Chris Sale. I dare you.

And I'm not saying he's universally disliked. But, for a moment, let's use common sense. There are 26 players on the roster not named Chris Sale when he's hurt, which has been most of the last four seasons. Why would they even take him into consideration? He's averaged less than 6 starts a year since 2018. Most of the time, he's been terrible. Why would any regular on that team give two shits about a guy who always looks like he needs to put on about 15 pounds of muscle and is constantly one pitch away from the IL?
Here’s a Kiké quote on Sale from earlier this season:
“He’s got everything going for him,” Hernández told reporters. “I’ve been on this team for three years and I haven’t played that much behind him. So to see him be the Chris Sale that I saw from afar, that I faced in the World Series in ’18 and all those years in the past, it’s just a lot of fun and I’m really proud of him because he’s had to work his (expletive) off to get to where he’s at right now.”
Yeah, definitely sounds like a guy he doesn’t give a shit about.
He hasn’t been terrible ‘most of the time’ when he’s actually been healthy. You and I both know that’s a lie.