Scottish Fitba 2022-23: Ain't That Always the Way

Jimy Hendrix

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 15, 2002
5,106
Rangers are wasting time at damn near Portuguese levels of skill. More good corner work than flopping, but healthy doses of the latter as well.
 

CodPiece XL

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 4, 2007
2,139
Scottsdale, AZ.
I'm genuinely pleased for Rangers and tonight's implications for Scottish football, but my goodness...the guff coming out of the mouth of the BT Sport commentator in Eindhoven after the final whistle (and in the lead-up to it) is so, so over the top.
You can bet your ass there is now going to be a flurry of activity in the transfer market by Rangers with 40M or so guaranteed . But only a week to get things done.
 

fletcherpost

sosh's feckin' poet laureate
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
10,965
America
Well done Rangers.

The omens were there when a random gent in a Rangers tap started talking to me at Govan station. The gist of it wiz that some lassie had said 'are ye deef?' and yes, as the man said 'I am deef' and he pointed to his ears. I changed the subject and talked about the game, did he think the Gers can do it 'Aye we kin win' - then the train came and we went our separate ways. It wiz a sign.

Later that afternoon on the bus to Fife, another gent in a Gers tap, half gets up from his seat and starts talking about the bridge and the trains and the proposed new station in Leven - we were enterin Leven so this was apt. He talks for some time afore turning to me and i realized he had been talking to me the hale time - odds fish!! Luckily i am somewhat aware of the plan to add new stations in Fife to the East Coast line and i was able to converse. But like a true Ger he was not intersted in what i had to say and talked o'er me. I forgave him as he'd missed his stop. It wiz a sign. As he got off the bus i said 'mon the Gers' - he turned to me, paused, i think to ask himself if i was a Ger, if i looked and sounded like a Ger, or even if i was not a Ger was i being sincere...then he looked at me, nodded and in a beautifully grizzled tone said ' Mon the Gers'

The portents were there ah'm tellin ye.
 

fletcherpost

sosh's feckin' poet laureate
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
10,965
America
I'm genuinely pleased for Rangers and tonight's implications for Scottish football, but my goodness...the guff coming out of the mouth of the BT Sport commentator in Eindhoven after the final whistle (and in the lead-up to it) is so, so over the top.
Really? Ye hink say? Was it the hyperbole or the revisionist history? It's the irish guy in't it? He's a Ger though, (pretty sure he's a Ger) so it was to be expected.

I really didnae mind, in fact I'd expect nothing less. But i can see you're looking at it as one pro to another. What would you have done differently?
 
What would you have done differently?
For a start, I'd have tried to not sound like a bad imitation (with a much less plummy voice) of the Archie Macpherson impersonator on "Only An Excuse?" episodes when the show was at its peak. All that was missing was a reference to the Britannic Majesty of the Gers. I know it was a big night for the club...but they won an away match in Holland, and he sounded like they'd won the quadruple or something. Shut up and let the moment breathe a bit!
 

fletcherpost

sosh's feckin' poet laureate
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
10,965
America
For a start, I'd have tried to not sound like a bad imitation (with a much less plummy voice) of the Archie Macpherson impersonator on "Only An Excuse?" episodes when the show was at its peak. All that was missing was a reference to the Britannic Majesty of the Gers. I know it was a big night for the club...but they won an away match in Holland, and he sounded like they'd won the quadruple or something. Shut up and let the moment breathe a bit!
Aw man...i just watched it again. I love your critique by the way. As a Scot though, i love a bit of over emoting, hyperbole, a commentator getting somewhat carried away...I don't think the Scots mind that too much. I wonder how Martin Tyler would have handled it.

Anyway for anyone who is intersted some semi accurate time stamps.

- 5m45s the final whistle goes. Firstly i don't know the name of the commentator but he is a jock and he sounds like a Ger.

His opening gambit is 'It's heroic, it's history' - i don't mind that.

6:02 'Twelve Years - twelve long long years' - I don't mind that - or that he does the inevitable where they were (bottom tier of Scottish fitba) to where they are now (CL Group stage) and European football is where you earn your stripes etc - i think he's still okay.

6:45 'Pedro Caixinha was in a bush' - Is this were he loses it?

6:50 'But now Rangers can feast at the very top of the European canape, gorging Uefa's most lucrative fruit'
- i can see that as a fellow pro you might think this is too much...but...I mean Rangers and Celtic could easily get nil points in their CL matches, so this might be the high point, he might not get another chance to bring out the such hyperbole.

7:00 'Rangers - vitorious in Eindhoven.' He brings it back, states the obvious, sums it up, allows a little space for silence here.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x_0J3lTPkQ&ab_channel=BTSport
 

fletcherpost

sosh's feckin' poet laureate
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
10,965
America
Frustrating result in the Europa League play off last night. Hearts 0-1 Zurich

Hearts were well in control of the on field goings on for about 60 minutes until Jorge Grant got a dumb (erally dumb) second yellow for diving. I was surprised how on top Hearts were, they had most of the ball, were making decent chances where just a tad more quality and composure would have got them on the scoresheet. I reckon most folk watching at home or at Tyncastle felt a goal for Hearts was coming - as long as they keep the heid, which tends to mean keeping all 11 players on the field.

The sad thing for me was Grant did not need to go down. He didn't need to gamble. The ref was starting to get his cards out, and if you're on a yellow, why take the chance. Hearts were dominating, which was a pleasant surprise.

The sending off effectively killed the game and then BBC Scotland, that bastion of everything that is shite about Scotland, lost the broadcast for about 10 minutes, instead of musaz they went for birds chirruping. When they finally found the 50p for the meter, it was 0-1 to Zurich.

After the match the Hearts boss felt it was not a second yellow for Grant and he wa proud of his players, and at last they have Conference League to look forward to. Hearts could have stuck 11 traffic cones on the ptich and got the same outcome.

Once again Scottish teams not Celtic or Rangers showing whoever gives a damn how off the pace they are in Europe.

Maybe this is somethng we can talk about here...how do we get a better 3rd best team in Scotland. There's a lot of money in Edinburgh, and Aberdeen. These clubs; Hearts Hibs and Aberdeen should be doing better. For a city the size and wealth of Edinburgh (i mean it's only a matter of time before the working class get banned from edinburgh city centre) - there's no excuse, Hibs and Hearts need to get better. They need to figure it out. Aberdeen are in an oil rich city...sort it out. be a Bourmouth, not a Sheffield Wednesday...(sorry Justin.)
 

fletcherpost

sosh's feckin' poet laureate
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
10,965
America
This might be the dumbest thing i have read on the BBC regarding Scottish football.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61413676

...with the Glasgow giants already operating on a different financial planet to the other clubs in the country, that huge windfall comes with challenges for the competitive balance of domestic competition.

Here, BBC Scotland looks at whether having two clubs in the group stage will really help the Scottish game as a whole.


(The absolute state of these fools.)

All i am saying is what if Celtic adn Rangers went out at the first qulifying round of European competition...would that 'help the Scottish game as a whole'?

The Beeb is not nor ever will be a friend to Scotland. Absolute shower of shite.
 
Maybe this is somethng we can talk about here...how do we get a better 3rd best team in Scotland. There's a lot of money in Edinburgh, and Aberdeen. These clubs; Hearts Hibs and Aberdeen should be doing better. For a city the size and wealth of Edinburgh (i mean it's only a matter of time before the working class get banned from edinburgh city centre) - there's no excuse, Hibs and Hearts need to get better. They need to figure it out. Aberdeen are in an oil rich city...sort it out. be a Bourmouth, not a Sheffield Wednesday...(sorry Justin.)
You can't invent fans for the non-Old Firm teams out of whole cloth. To get a good third Scottish team in the current financial environment, you need an angel investor who won't care about balance sheets or Fair Play regulations - and there aren't enough people in Scotland to attract the Middle Eastern oil barons. Apart from that, it's not as though Hearts or Hibs or Aberdeen would ever draw 40,000 fans to every home match even if they were top of the league and had stadiums in which to put everyone. Ever since the European Cup became the Champions League, finances have dictated that the top Scottish division would have two good teams and a bunch of diddy teams; nothing is ever going to change that. (Which is why I struggle to give a toss about the SPFL.)
Here, BBC Scotland looks at whether having two clubs in the group stage will really help the Scottish game as a whole.
If "the Scottish game as a whole" includes the national team, then yes, having Celtic and Rangers in the Champions League is a good thing.
 

fletcherpost

sosh's feckin' poet laureate
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
10,965
America
You can't invent fans for the non-Old Firm teams out of whole cloth. To get a good third Scottish team in the current financial environment, you need an angel investor who won't care about balance sheets or Fair Play regulations - and there aren't enough people in Scotland to attract the Middle Eastern oil barons. Apart from that, it's not as though Hearts or Hibs or Aberdeen would ever draw 40,000 fans to every home match even if they were top of the league and had stadiums in which to put everyone. Ever since the European Cup became the Champions League, finances have dictated that the top Scottish division would have two good teams and a bunch of diddy teams; nothing is ever going to change that. (Which is why I struggle to give a toss about the SPFL.)

If "the Scottish game as a whole" includes the national team, then yes, having Celtic and Rangers in the Champions League is a good thing.
I said 'better' - how do we, the royal we, that is those that give a hoot, which in this case isn't you. I'm not talking about 40k at the home games. I'm talking about 'better' - which given the general standards of the 3rd best team in Scotland over the years, is a pretty low bar which i am sure you, who careth not, would agree.

Back to the original post where i said, Edinburgh is a big city with lots of money...which it is. I'm just not prepared to believe that Hearts or Hibs have maxed out on their revenue potential - or Aberdeen for that matter. Nor am i prepared to beleive that any of those teams could not improve their on field performances via youth/player development and better coaching and other sundry marginal gains that don't include a rich saviour. That's why i mentioned Bourmouth, who i think most would agree punch above their weight.

I think it's fine per se not to give a toss about the SPFL...but this is a Scottish fitba thread.

If anyone who does give a toss about the SPFL would like to chime in that would be cool.
 

McSweeny

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
102
Outside of Celtic and Rangers, only Hearts, Hibernian, and Aberdeen averaged more than 10k fans per home game last season. Would more financial investment and more attractive football help those numbers? What is the state of the TV deal in Scotland? Is there more money/exposure to be had there? Especially if Celtic and Rangers can compete in the CL group stages with more regularity?
 

CodPiece XL

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 4, 2007
2,139
Scottsdale, AZ.
Frustrating result in the Europa League play off last night. Hearts 0-1 Zurich

Hearts were well in control of the on field goings on for about 60 minutes until Jorge Grant got a dumb (erally dumb) second yellow for diving. I was surprised how on top Hearts were, they had most of the ball, were making decent chances where just a tad more quality and composure would have got them on the scoresheet. I reckon most folk watching at home or at Tyncastle felt a goal for Hearts was coming - as long as they keep the heid, which tends to mean keeping all 11 players on the field.

The sad thing for me was Grant did not need to go down. He didn't need to gamble. The ref was starting to get his cards out, and if you're on a yellow, why take the chance. Hearts were dominating, which was a pleasant surprise.

The sending off effectively killed the game and then BBC Scotland, that bastion of everything that is shite about Scotland, lost the broadcast for about 10 minutes, instead of musaz they went for birds chirruping. When they finally found the 50p for the meter, it was 0-1 to Zurich.

After the match the Hearts boss felt it was not a second yellow for Grant and he wa proud of his players, and at last they have Conference League to look forward to. Hearts could have stuck 11 traffic cones on the ptich and got the same outcome.

Once again Scottish teams not Celtic or Rangers showing whoever gives a damn how off the pace they are in Europe.

Maybe this is somethng we can talk about here...how do we get a better 3rd best team in Scotland. There's a lot of money in Edinburgh, and Aberdeen. These clubs; Hearts Hibs and Aberdeen should be doing better. For a city the size and wealth of Edinburgh (i mean it's only a matter of time before the working class get banned from edinburgh city centre) - there's no excuse, Hibs and Hearts need to get better. They need to figure it out. Aberdeen are in an oil rich city...sort it out. be a Bourmouth, not a Sheffield Wednesday...(sorry Justin.)
I watched the game, as you say, Hearts in full control in first half, a little bit more composure and they could at minimum have been 2 up at the half. Probably the most one sided half I've seen this season without the dominant team scoring. They were there for the taking and I'm pretty sure Zurich gained confidence by getting to the half without conceding. Don't get me started on diving for a penalty, it's all too prevalent in the modern game. I hate it. But the game is more namby-pamby than when I played regularly. We certainly didn't go looking at diving in the box. My manager would have killed any player looking to cheat. Since I'm on that topic, it's now become more acceptable to take a player out as a professional foul. Taking one for the team as they say. Rarely do you see anyone given a straight red. It used to be an automatic red if for example, a player is racing away and you clipped the player's heel when you had no chance of getting the ball, you were off. For the most part now it's just a yellow. Now having said that, there is no consistency. Did you see the games last week? If not, crank up BBC iPlayer and you will see exhibit A, B , C D etc. Lunstrom was sent off and in my view it was correct, he had no chance of getting the ball and did the professional foul and took the player down. People act surprised that it was a straight red....in my day it was a no doubter, early shower. But my point is you compare to that horrific Ross Callachan professional foul in the Ross County game, he only got a yellow. He was like Vinny Jones on beserker mode. Jack Baldwin had an X-certificate tackle and only got a yellow. Again lack of consistency by refs, it's a joke. Go back the week before and most of the punditry on Sportscene was again centered on the lack of consistency with refs.

Speaking of the BBC, yeah, I don't know how they could lose the feed like that. However, by that point Hearts were down to to 10 and I had lost the desire to watch the inevitable. But how is it the BBC wheel out 3 ex Rangers players as pundits and one of them actually presents the show? Now I suppose you could say Kenny Miller played for both Rangers and Celtic but trust me, he's a Rangers guy. Occasionally Jackie McNamara comes on...but rare. Don't get me wrong, liked him as a player but good lord, a rocking horse would provide more insight.

Ross Callachan tackle at 25 seconds......https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMNmv8SDov4
 
Last edited:

CodPiece XL

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 4, 2007
2,139
Scottsdale, AZ.
I said 'better' - how do we, the royal we, that is those that give a hoot, which in this case isn't you. I'm not talking about 40k at the home games. I'm talking about 'better' - which given the general standards of the 3rd best team in Scotland over the years, is a pretty low bar which i am sure you, who careth not, would agree.

Back to the original post where i said, Edinburgh is a big city with lots of money...which it is. I'm just not prepared to believe that Hearts or Hibs have maxed out on their revenue potential - or Aberdeen for that matter. Nor am i prepared to beleive that any of those teams could not improve their on field performances via youth/player development and better coaching and other sundry marginal gains that don't include a rich saviour. That's why i mentioned Bourmouth, who i think most would agree punch above their weight.

I think it's fine per se not to give a toss about the SPFL...but this is a Scottish fitba thread.

If anyone who does give a toss about the SPFL would like to chime in that would be cool.
Contracting the number of teams has always been my first choice, we've had this discussion over the years. Far too many for the population of Scotland, contract and unite some teams in the same geographic areas. I understand this won't be popular etc, club history and all that....

Investment at grass roots level.

Get rid of plastic pitches. Absolutely no need for Livingston to have a plastic pitch same with Killie. Technically it's a hybrid but this is Scotland not Norway.

The TV deal is shit, but it's only worth what people are willing to pay. You guys will know more than me but aren't SPL games shown on Sky and BT? A lot of people won't buy two subscriptions. Also, doesn't the current Sky deal allow for 48 games to be shown but they choose not to come close to that? Evidently there are issues with ROI. And of course it all comes down to product on the field. Although rumor has it a new Sky deal is in the works.

Maybe a move to summer football, although one could argue that will all these new European tournaments and qualification rounds some teams are already playing in late June and July.

I'm not sure how this would work with smaller teams but maybe moving each team to a PPV model and not having national live broadcasts. If you have enough interest and "season PPV holders" you can decrease the average ticket price to attend games, maybe let kids in for free, maybe you get bigger crowds and get more kids interested. I'm just spitballing here.

To be honest, since there is obvious interest in the Champions League my own personal interest has decreased. There is an element of protectionism and exclusion. Look at pot 2, 4 teams finished 4th , two came in 3rd in their respective leagues and one second. Yet 6 true Champions of their respective leagues were in the 4th pot, that's bullshit. It's all fixed and all about the money. I'm old enough to to remember when it was just a straight draw, two-leg knockout.....last man standing wins. I miss that. The draw now is like an algebra equation in University Challenge. I get it...more matches...more money etc.

I actually remember the last time Celtic played Real Madrid. I was just a kid, Celtic won the first leg 2:0. No live coverage, highlights on Scotsport. Jaunito was weaving his magic, Laurie Cunningham terrorizing the Celtic right back but they still won. Second leg, Celtic caved in, lost 3:0. You couldn't even watch it on TV. Times have changed.
 

CodPiece XL

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 4, 2007
2,139
Scottsdale, AZ.
You can't invent fans for the non-Old Firm teams out of whole cloth. To get a good third Scottish team in the current financial environment, you need an angel investor who won't care about balance sheets or Fair Play regulations - and there aren't enough people in Scotland to attract the Middle Eastern oil barons. Apart from that, it's not as though Hearts or Hibs or Aberdeen would ever draw 40,000 fans to every home match even if they were top of the league and had stadiums in which to put everyone. Ever since the European Cup became the Champions League, finances have dictated that the top Scottish division would have two good teams and a bunch of diddy teams; nothing is ever going to change that. (Which is why I struggle to give a toss about the SPFL.)

If "the Scottish game as a whole" includes the national team, then yes, having Celtic and Rangers in the Champions League is a good thing.
Just curious. Is part of you’re not giving a shit related to the obvious sectarianism in Scotland. Obviously I’m talking mainly about Celtic and Rangers. But I know if I was an American living in Scotland that would turn me off immediately. Or is it purely about product on the field?

Ok.. three posts in a row . Banning myself from the thread for wee while.
 
Just curious. Is part of you’re not giving a shit related to the obvious sectarianism in Scotland. Obviously I’m talking mainly about Celtic and Rangers. But I know if I was an American living in Scotland that would turn me off immediately. Or is it purely about product on the field?
Purely about the product on the field. I mean, the sectarianism is awful, but my issues with the SPFL as a sporting entity are entirely down to the lack of parity. I like watching the underdogs hang with and occasionally get results against the Old Firm - e.g., when I saw that Rangers were down to 9 men against Hibs last week, I tuned into the end of the match and greatly enjoyed watching Hibs eventually get the equalizer. (I would have felt the same feelings if that had happened to Celtic, FWIW.) But generally, there just aren't any storylines in the league that I as a neutral can sink my teeth into, and the quality of the football never shines enough for me to want to watch it relative to all of the other leagues I have available to me on Sky and BT Sport. If there were ever a third team threatening the dominance of the Old Firm, then I would absolutely tune in...and the times when I tend to be most interested in the SPFL are times when we get to November and December and Rangers or Celtic is in 3rd in the table. But the recent Rangers relegation-and-revival period aside, you have to go back to 2005/06 to find a season in which both Rangers and Celtic were absolutely expected to finish in the top two but one of them didn't...and Hearts still finished 17 points behind Celtic. And you have to go back to 1993/94 to find a season in which a non-Old Firm team had a real chance to win the title. And of course you have to go back to 1984/85 to find a season in which a non-Old Firm team actually won the title. That's just not the sort of competitive balance that gets my juices flowing.
 

fletcherpost

sosh's feckin' poet laureate
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
10,965
America
Purely about the product on the field. I mean, the sectarianism is awful, but my issues with the SPFL as a sporting entity are entirely down to the lack of parity. I like watching the underdogs hang with and occasionally get results against the Old Firm - e.g., when I saw that Rangers were down to 9 men against Hibs last week, I tuned into the end of the match and greatly enjoyed watching Hibs eventually get the equalizer. (I would have felt the same feelings if that had happened to Celtic, FWIW.) But generally, there just aren't any storylines in the league that I as a neutral can sink my teeth into, and the quality of the football never shines enough for me to want to watch it relative to all of the other leagues I have available to me on Sky and BT Sport. If there were ever a third team threatening the dominance of the Old Firm, then I would absolutely tune in...and the times when I tend to be most interested in the SPFL are times when we get to November and December and Rangers or Celtic is in 3rd in the table. But the recent Rangers relegation-and-revival period aside, you have to go back to 2005/06 to find a season in which both Rangers and Celtic were absolutely expected to finish in the top two but one of them didn't...and Hearts still finished 17 points behind Celtic. And you have to go back to 1993/94 to find a season in which a non-Old Firm team had a real chance to win the title. And of course you have to go back to 1984/85 to find a season in which a non-Old Firm team actually won the title. That's just not the sort of competitive balance that gets my juices flowing.
This is 100% legit mate.

I remember when Hearts nearly won the league in the 1980's. My physics teacher was a huge Jambo and when they blew it right at the end he was in bits. I was gutted for him, even though my affections always tended towards Celtic. I was toally rooting for Hearts to win the league. I'd root for any non old firm team to win the leauge if they were in touching distance. Football needs those stories. So i get you.

But being Scottish, and caring deeply about the national sport, I am compelled to ruminate over possible ways we can make a better product, and by that i mean, (as you know) a more competetive, higher quality league. I've been banging on about it for years here.

Not to beat the drum too much, but i really do think Hibs; Hearts and Aberdeen can do better.
 

mic99

lurker
Jul 18, 2005
486
Huns tomorrow (CBS Sports) and Real Madrid mid-week.

This is the best Celtic team I have seen since the MON days so should be fun. Celtic Park will be shaking. In Ange we trust.
 

fletcherpost

sosh's feckin' poet laureate
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
10,965
America
I thought everyone was banned from Edinburgh not just the working class.
It's getting that way mate. I was over to check out Medea at the fringe and It was 4 parts posh English to 3 parts American Tourist; 2 parts A N other tourist and a smattering of Jocks who passed the sift.
 

fletcherpost

sosh's feckin' poet laureate
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
10,965
America
Thank you - this is incredible
In't it just though. You can sense the fella beelin as he supresses all his range to verbally document the event, as he must, as that is a key part of his job. And the joy is in how we imagine he'd sound of his beloved and mighty Gers were the scorers of those goals.
 

fletcherpost

sosh's feckin' poet laureate
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
10,965
America
It's been a helluva fortnight for Rangers fans.
I've been walking around Govan and there's not that many Union Jacks, fluttering outside windows. Ok there's one next door to me and another acorss the street and one round the corner.,..but they're perma jacks, they never leave.

On field wise...i can see why Gers fans are pissed off. Tillmans looks like a proper player and Colak hit the ground running...but aside from that...they've done things on the cheap. Let go of quality and not replaced with as much. Aribo and Bassey were key players, very versatile too, both being able to play multiple positions. For the first time in forever Rangers have money in the bank, from player sales, and the EL final run, and some CL money too.

I'm wondering if they will replace the pic of the queen with one of Charles, in the Rangers players dressing room.