Sea Bass and Syrah - Copa America Chile 2015

Zososoxfan

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For the uninitiated, Copa America is the South American football federation's (CONMEBOL) premiere international soccer tournament. In other words, this is the South American version of the Eurocup (UEFA European Championship). Outside of said Eurocup and the World Cup, it is probably the next best international tournament. In almost any given year, Brazil and Argentina will have star-studded squads and with the quality of soccer currently very high in Uruguay, Chile, and Colombia, there is a ton of talent on display. Furthermore, a lot of South American-based players are basically showcasing for European clubs (the transfer window is currently open). This tournament begins tomorrow with hosts Chile taking on Ecuador.
 
Although a bit odd, Copa America will be taking place this year in Chile and again next year in the US (to celebrate its centennial). Uruguay is the defending champion. The format of the tournament places the 10 CONMEBOL teams plus 2 "guest" teams from CONCACAF (this year, Mexico and Jamaica) into 3 groups of 4. Each group then plays a single round robin against the other teams in the groups (i.e. 3 matches per team in the group phase). The top 2 teams of each group and the top 2/3 3rd place finishers advance to a single-game quarterfinal round.
 
Group A is: Chile, Mexico, Ecuador, and Bolivia
Group B is: Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay, and Jamaica
Group C is: Brazil, Colombia, Peru, and Venezuela
 
Next week, Chile plays Mexico on Monday, Argentina plays Uruguay on Tuesday, and Brazil plays Colombia on Wednesday. To reiterate, that's just the group phase. The knockout stage should provide permutations of these matchups which should be a pleasure to watch. If nothing else, I suggest people watch to see how different the style of South American soccer is. First and foremost, it is much more physical than European club soccer. These teams/countries generally do NOT like each other. You will constantly be surprised at how much contact the refs allow and teams (usually less talented ones and Brazil) often build their strategy around slowing down fast teams. On the other hand, players adjust accordingly and there is more effort to stay up IMHO. Hardass Americans who lament how soft soccer is should watch if they want to see more vicious tackles than usual, but sadly, the amount of flopping is comparable to European soccer as well. Also IMO, there is more offensive creativity and less formulaic attacking strategies employed. Unfortunately, outside of Chile, most national teams have recognized that with the short amount of time to train together, the best strategy is generally disciplined defending with opportunistic attacking (as seen by Argentina at the 2014 WC). This also explains why offensive strategies lean more on individual creativity and quick hitting combo play.
 
Some player/team highlights:
 
-Chile is coached by Jorge Sampaoli who is a total boss. He implements a system of incredibly intense pressing that usually results in very entertaining matches. Chile has Vidal (Juventus), Alexis Sanchez (Arsenal), Bravo (Barcelona), and several other European-based players. The team should easily make it out of the group phase and should be tons of fun to watch.
 
-Mexico has some real talent, but has struggled to establish itself in international competition. The current squad is mostly comprised of domestic-based players other than Chicharito and Dos Santos, but considering they're competing with Ecuador and Bolivia at sea level (or closer to it than usual anyway), they should qualify.
 
-Argentina are likely the favorites to take down this tournament. The team is still licking its wounds a bit from WC 2014 and these players by and large have not won an international competition yet. The lineup is completely absurd. Pretty much the entire team is based at major European clubs and this group seems to have a camaraderie that previous iterations did not share. Messi, Aguero, Tevez, Lavezzi, Pastore, Lamela, Banega, Mascherano, Pereyra, Biglia, Otamendi, Rojo, Zabaleta, Garay...there are other solid players I'm not listing. Former 1-year Barcelona coach Tata Martino takes over the reigns and should have these guys playing solid ball. Will be interesting to see how the guys with the longest Euro season look in terms of fatigue. Anything less than the title will be a disappointment.
 
-Uruguay, as said above, are defending their crown. They are at the tail end of a golden era (Forlan, Caceres, etc.), but are still a good squad. I don't know how many more games Suarez is suspended for (maybe the whole tourney?), but even without him, there is some real talent with Godin, Stuani, Cavani and others. They should easily qualify from this group.
 
-Brazil are looking to redeem themselves after the 7-1 drubbing in the WC semis from Germany. This team still has stupid talent, but it's a bit sad that they are being coached by Dunga, who favors the aforementioned slow and grinding tactics that are effective, but aesthetically weak. Watch out for Neymar, Coutinho, Willian, Fernandinho, Thiago Silva, Marquinhos, Felipe Luis, and David Luiz. Should make it to the semis without much trouble.
 
-Colombia are having a renaissance of sorts led by James who is a fantastic creator and pure #10. With Falcao healthy, Teo, Jackson Martinez, Bacca, Cuadrado, and Ospina, this team has plenty of talent to go far this tournament.
 
I fully expect those 6 teams (Chile, Mexico, Argentina, Uruguay, Brazil, and Colombia) to qualify, but I have no idea about the quality of the rest. Based on my vague memories of the last matches of WC qualifying, I'd probably put Ecuador, Venezuela, and Paraguay a notch above Peru Bolivia, and Jamaica. Will be interesting to see who makes it out of these teams (or if more than 2 do), although getting past the quarters would be a significant accomplishment for any of them.
 

Cellar-Door

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Mexico is sending a decidedly B level team, neither Chicharito nor Dos Santos will be there.
The biggest names are probably Marquez from Verona, Corona from Twente and Jiminez from Athletico Madrid.
 

Zososoxfan

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Cellar-Door said:
Mexico is sending a decidedly B level team, neither Chicharito nor Dos Santos will be there.
The biggest names are probably Marquez from Verona, Corona from Twente and Jiminez from Athletico Madrid.
Honestly, I looked it up, saw they weren't there, but assumed there must have been a mistake. Why aren't they on the squad? I vaguely remember seeing/reading a piece how Mexico (maybe Herrera?) prefers domestic-based players.
 

SoxFanInCali

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California. Duh.
Yeah, a Gold Cup win gets them into a playoff against the US to play in the next Confederations Cup, that's going to be their priority.
 

swiftaw

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Zososoxfan said:
In other words, this is the South American version of the Eurocup (UEFA European Championship). 
 
Out of curiosity, has anyone else every seen the European Championships referred to as the Eurocup?  It's a new one on me.  I have only ever seen them referred to as the Euros, as in Euro 2016.
 

Titans Bastard

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If I recall correctly from the USA's last participation in Copa America (2007), clubs are not required to release players for the tournament if the country is a guest participant (like Mexico in the Copa America).  In addition to what was stated above, it's another reason why Mexico will put their best foot forward in the Gold Cup.
 

Zososoxfan

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Considering the Gold Cup issue, I'm surprised that CONMEBOL decided to invite CONCACAF teams. I read that they reached out to Japan (declined) and China (withdrew). I imagine CONMEBOL want weakish teams, lest a guest team take it down. Further, I imagine travel costs are a big consideration for the guests and in Mexico's case, there is a cultural fit angle that probably adds to the desire on both sides.
 
I also read an article this morning indicating that Copa America 2016 is in jeopardy with all the FIFA shenanigans going on. Cancelling that tournament would make me a sad panda.
 

Titans Bastard

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Zososoxfan said:
Considering the Gold Cup issue, I'm surprised that CONMEBOL decided to invite CONCACAF teams. I read that they reached out to Japan (declined) and China (withdrew). I imagine CONMEBOL want weakish teams, lest a guest team take it down. Further, I imagine travel costs are a big consideration for the guests and in Mexico's case, there is a cultural fit angle that probably adds to the desire on both sides.
 
This Copa America / Gold Cup conflict existed when they invited Mexico in 2011 and Mexico/US in 2007.  CONMEBOL know the score by now.
 
Mexico is a good fit for cultural reasons and because Mexican clubs play in Libertadores, Mexico has a deep pool of talent, and because much of Mexico's talent plays in Liga MX, whose clubs are generally very permissive when it comes to releasing players for extracurricular international games.  Mexico actually has a lot of their top players abroad by their standards, but it's still less than the US.
 
I don't think CONMEBOL was too thrilled with the US in 2007.  A weak roster led to a very poor showing and the US hasn't been back.
 

blueguitar322

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Valencia off the crossbar on some shady defending by Chile. 
 
To sum up Chile:
(1) Dangerous in attack
(2) Dangerous in defense
(3) Three dives in the box resulting in one penalty, one yellow for simulation, and one no-call
 

atisha

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I don't really get the invitation thing... what if an invited team wins the tournament? Your Copa America champions... Japan :p
 
With 10 teams they could do the tournament this way:
 
2 groups of 5
first in group gets a bye
2nd and 3rd in group play a wild-card round to advance in the semifinal
then semifinal and final.
 
The only issue would be a longer tournament, probably.
 

candylandriots

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atisha said:
I don't really get the invitation thing... what if an invited team wins the tournament? Your Copa America champions... Japan :p
 
With 10 teams they could do the tournament this way:
 
2 groups of 5
first in group gets a bye
2nd and 3rd in group play a wild-card round to advance in the semifinal
then semifinal and final.
 
The only issue would be a longer tournament, probably.
 
Or is there some reason that Suriname and Guyana are not invited (other than probably not being very good)?
 

Vinho Tinto

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swiftaw said:
 
Out of curiosity, has anyone else every seen the European Championships referred to as the Eurocup? 
 
The Champions League tournament was previously the European Cup. So the Euros name is a good way to avoid confusion. 
 

Infield Infidel

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atisha said:
I don't really get the invitation thing... what if an invited team wins the tournament? Your Copa America champions... Japan :p
 
With 10 teams they could do the tournament this way:
 
2 groups of 5
first in group gets a bye
2nd and 3rd in group play a wild-card round to advance in the semifinal
then semifinal and final.
 
The only issue would be a longer tournament, probably.
 
groups of five don't really work in short tournaments because one team gets skipped on each turn, so the first and last teams that get skipped play 4 straight matches, and the three others get byes, so the latter three inherently get an advantage wrt more rest during the tournament.
 
Suriname and Guyana, yeah they are both minnows and have small overall populations. Suriname would get better if/when they start to allow overseas players of Surinamese decent play (they are working on it), however, the best Surinamese players (Edgar Davids, Ruud Gullit, etc)  are usually also eligible for Netherlands, so there's automatically a ceiling for how good they could potentially get. I think they prefer inviting teams that are closer in quality to CONMEBOL teams (Suriname and Guyana are in CONCACAF). But they might jump into the top-100 worldwide if they are getting second- and third-tier Dutch-Surinamese players.
 

Zososoxfan

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blueguitar322 said:
Valencia off the crossbar on some shady defending by Chile. 
 
To sum up Chile:
(1) Dangerous in attack
(2) Dangerous in defense
(3) Three dives in the box resulting in one penalty, one yellow for simulation, and one no-call
 
Chile looked awesome in attack yesterday, but as Blueguitar said, the defense didn't look so solid. Chile looked to be playing with 5 at the back too (when not in possession), and looked to hem in Ecuador to one flank. This worked for large stretches, but Chile will be tested at the back going forward for sure. Nevertheless, the linking play of Sanchez, Vargas, Vidal, and Valdivia was a pleasure to watch. I was pretty surprised at how cohesive they looked for the first game of a tournament like this. In attack, Chile played in a 3-3-1-3 formation that really gives them a lot of balance and options. Ecuador was pretty organized at the back, but really credit goes to the Chile attack for always looking to unlock the D. Ecuador had a handful of chances throughout the game, but the scoreline was fair IMHO. Ecuador still should have a chance to progress against a weak Bolivia team and (as I recently learned!) a B squad for Mexico.
 

Titans Bastard

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Infield Infidel said:
 
groups of five don't really work in short tournaments because one team gets skipped on each turn, so the first and last teams that get skipped play 4 straight matches, and the three others get byes, so the latter three inherently get an advantage wrt more rest during the tournament.
 
Suriname and Guyana, yeah they are both minnows and have small overall populations. Suriname would get better if/when they start to allow overseas players of Surinamese decent play (they are working on it), however, the best Surinamese players (Edgar Davids, Ruud Gullit, etc)  are usually also eligible for Netherlands, so there's automatically a ceiling for how good they could potentially get. I think they prefer inviting teams that are closer in quality to CONMEBOL teams (Suriname and Guyana are in CONCACAF). But they might jump into the top-100 worldwide if they are getting second- and third-tier Dutch-Surinamese players.
 
Add Clarence Seedorf, Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink and Aron Winter to the list. They and Davids were actually born in Paramaribo.
 
Frank Rijkaard's dad was born in Suriname.  So was Patrick Kluivert's dad (mom born in Curacao).  Ryan Babel has Surinamese roots.  So does Royston Drenthe, whose brother plays for Suriname.
 
 
In a strange alternate universe, Suriname could have been awesome.  Of course, I'm sure none of these players would have been nearly as good if they hadn't been born into the Dutch development system or moved to the Netherlands at a very young age (as all the Surinamese-born players listed above did.)
 

Infield Infidel

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Suriname could potentially use the same playbook that Algeria has used for a while and Cape Verde has used more recently, and both of them are top 50 FIFA-ranked teams. They can't get a Zidane or Nani or Henrik Larsson, but there are many players with heritage or moved young in the levels below, many of whom trained at the youth national level. And in CONCACAF, which is a top heavy federation, they could get competitive very quickly running out players from Eredivise sides.
 
The problem though is travel is really hard, much harder than for African sides with Europe-based players, and maybe even harder than for the US. Imagine flying from Netherlands to Suriname and then to Mexico or Cuba, that's a big commitment for players who may lay the foundation but might not be around too long.
 

DJnVa

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Paraguay rallies from a 2 goal hole to draw even with Argentina in the 90th minute.
 
Great back and forth game.
 
 
EDIT: And Tevez heads it wide in the 92nd minute. As the announcer says "And Tevez fills his pants!!!"
 

Zososoxfan

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Some interesting results over the weekend. The headline is probably that Paraguay drew with Argentina. Argentina had some slick passing and opportunistic attacking in the first half, highlighted by a hustle goal from Aguero and Di Maria drawing a dubious penalty (although another potential pen on Messi was not called, so it evened out IMO). Then, after some more chances in the second half that Argentina didn't finish, Paraguay first does some good pressing, forces a turnover in the attacking third, and sizzles a shot past Argentina. Then, in added time, Paraguay puts in a nice finish off of a corner. Tevez missed a wide open header, but I thought Di Maria had a terrible game. He flubbed a lot of chances and stopped a lot of attacks in their tracks. He drew the pen and delivered the ball that Tevez missed in the end, but I remember many more missed chances than not.
 
In another upset, Venezuela took 3 points from Colombia. The Venezuela goal was really nice and involved 2 very highly-skilled headers. Colombia had slicker passing and combination play, but Venezuela had an energetic defense.
 
Brazil escaped with a win over Peru, after Neymar played an unreal thru ball for Douglas in added time. The first five minutes of that game were bananas, with Peru opening the scoring after some really dumb play in defense and in goal. Then Neymar basically did a lap of the attacking half of the field and latched on to an Alves cross for an equalizer only a couple of minutes later. Neymar looked outstanding in the parts of the game I saw. Mexico outplayed Bolivia, but did not have good finishing. Did not catch Uruguay-Jamaica, but the former won 1-0. Ecuador plays Bolivia and Mexico plays Chile later today.
 
One thing that struck me is how tentative the refs are to dish out cards early in these games. A lot of these matches were clunky with lots of fouls and I hope they get more liberal with cards going forward to allow for some more attacking. Also, even the more talented teams seem out of sorts right now. In international competitions, it takes a few matches for the teams to really gel, so I don't care how teams look right now, more just which teams advance.
 
A final thought on Messi - on Barca, the offense is basically predicated on whether he plays out on the wing or comes into the center as a #10. However, I don't think Argentina has enough time to learn how to adapt to this style. IMHO, it would be better for Martino to settle on a role for Messi (probably in the middle) while providing him an alternative in case the opposition crafts a strategy to counter that, because it would make things easier on his teammates. His teammates look to get him the ball a ton and rightfully so, but it seems to slow down the attacks some and generally makes them more predictable. On Barca, the offense figures this out and the results are outstanding, but without the training time, I don't think this strategy works well for Argentina (at least not in the early stages of this competition).
 
FWIW, the Ecuador-Bolivia match on at the moment has been insanely entertaining - Bolivia jumped out to a 2-0 lead after 18 minutes, and since then it's been one-way traffic at the other end of the pitch, with Ecuador winning a penalty which was scored, made to be retaken, and then saved. So still 2-0 as we approach halftime.
 

rguilmar

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Agreed. This game is a ton of fun to watch. The speed of Ecuador is entertaining to watch and probably scary to play against. It's a shame they're most likely out of the tournament already.

Edit: or am I about to eat those words after that great strike?
 

blueguitar322

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Mexico just tied it 3-3 on a beautiful long ball assist. Probably should be 4-3 Chile but they had a goal (wrongly?) disallowed for offside.
 

blueguitar322

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Another disallowed Chile goal that looked onside to me. Certainly can't accuse the refs of favoring the hosts.
 

rguilmar

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Great two games today. 11 goals in two games. Passion, skill, speed, power, controversy. What else can you ask for? I suppose if you're Chile you can ask for a different linesman. As a neutral it was a great day of soccer though.
 

blueguitar322

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3-3 FT.
 
Chile look amazing going forward, but part of that is because three, sometimes four, and occasionally five players don't track back. Vidal and Alexis both have a reputation for defensive work ethic, but both were waiting on the break instead of tracking back. Alexis was playing as striker in a 3-5-2 system, so maybe he's excused; but I was surprised how Vidal played more like a right winger than box-to-box midfield. The tradeoff probably won't work against Brazil (a likely opponent in the first or second knockout round) as Neymar would shred Chile's defense with regularity.
 
Either way, the combination of Alexis-Vargas-Valdivia-Vidal is absolutely electric on the break. They all have good technique (in Alexis' case, world-class) and work well together. Isla doing a great job with overlaps on the right as well. Fun to watch.
 
Chile finish top of their group with a draw or win against Bolivia. Mexico has a decent chance of going through even in 3rd place, but if they win and Chile/Bolivia draw, there will be a three-way tie at the top of the Group A table.
 

Titans Bastard

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Top class from Jamaica's goalkeeper:
 
https://twitter.com/KICKTV/status/610925860930068480
 

blueguitar322

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Uruguay holding on against Argentina 0-0, but with only 27% possession, it's going to be a long 40 minutes.
 

blueguitar322

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Pastore -> Zabaleta -> Aguero and it's now 1-0. I don't know if Uruguay have the firepower to come back.
 

blueguitar322

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Argentina wins a dirty, defensive duel 1-0 on an Aguero goal. He's scored two of their three, and given his quality, it's easy to wonder what might have happened last summer if he hadn't been injured. 
 

Zososoxfan

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Uruguay-Argentina was a defensive slog until Argentina unlocked Uruguay. Pastore had a nifty dribble to get past his man and collapse the defense, he then dished off to Zabaleta who played a very precise cross to a crashing Aguero who finished with pure class.

If these refs don't start giving out cards earlier in matches, we're going to see more slugfests. I'm aware that's the style in South America, but it really does hinder offense and not allow a flow to develop in matches.

I'm really getting sick of Di Maria. He's making a mess of chances and really playing ineffectively. To his credit, he is tracking back on defense and covered for both Rojo and Zabaleta at points. But, I would much rather see Tevez, Lavezzi, or even Biglia and Banega on the field together instead of el fideo.

Argentina really need to move the ball faster and more crisply when in possession. Teams are understandably going to hunker down against them for the most part, so it's incumbent on them to make them work and stay disciplined. The team had success when Pastore, Messi, and Biglia (who had a quietly good game) were popping up in the middle of the park, drawing the defense in, then quickly hitting Zabaleta, Rojo, and Di Maria on the flanks.

I want to hear more details about why Martino was ejected. Seemed like a quick hook. In any event, Argentina now looks like they are in much better shape. Paraguay, Argentina, and Uruguay will all likely advance to knock out stages.
 

Bailey10

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Arturo Vidal, currently the tourny's leading scorer, got arrested for drunk driving after crashing his ferrarri last night.
 
Talk about taking things seriously during the biggest sporting event your country has ever hosted.
 

Bailey10

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BrazilianSoxFan said:
Errr, Chile hosted the 1962 World Cup...
 
My mistake. For some reason I thought the only South American teams to host the World Cup were Uruguay, Brazil and Argentina.
 
Anyway, my main point still stands. Vidal is a moron.
 

blueguitar322

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Ha - ref gives a yellow to the wrong player, but realizes his mistake, rescinds the card and then shows it to the correct player. Just as with Argentina-Uruguay last night, this one is rather testy. Would hate to be a CONMEBOL ref.
 

blueguitar322

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Great save by Ospina on a Neymar header, and then a second save as Neymar tried to hand the ball into the net. Yellow card to Neymar.