September NHL news thread

[The Napkin]

Wings sign DeKeyser to a 2 year deal
 
https://twitter.com/TSNAaronWard/status/511989606188077056
 
https://twitter.com/TSNAaronWard/status/511990517429972992
 
 

 

[PedroSpecialK]

Devante Smith-Pelly signed a 2 year, $1.6m (total - $800k AAV) deal.
 
Talk about a steal of a bridge deal

 

[MiracleOfO2704]

I don't think John Davison is sending Kurt Overhardt a Christmas card this year.

 

[cshea]

JD is still hot. Comes out today and says they've offered Johansen 2/$6mm, 6/$32mm and 8/$46mm. It's never good when the organization makes the negotiations public. FWIW, I don't think any those offers are that great for RJ.

Smith, Spooner and a D man for Johansen. Get it done, Theo.

 

[TSC]

JD is still hot. Comes out today and says they've offered Johansen 2/$6mm, 6/$32mm and 8/$46mm. It's never good when the organization makes the negotiations public. FWIW, I don't think any those offers are that great for RJ.

Smith, Spooner and a D man for Johansen. Get it done, Theo.

 
I know you're joking. Bit if that's all we're trading, we can't afford him. We'd need to drop Kelly AND a D-man (McQuaid?) into the deal to make it work.

 

[Silverdude2167]

JD is still hot. Comes out today and says they've offered Johansen 2/$6mm, 6/$32mm and 8/$46mm. It's never good when the organization makes the negotiations public. FWIW, I don't think any those offers are that great for RJ.

 
If we are to believe that he want's 6.5 a year then I don't get why he did try to work out a deal around 6/32mm. Find the middle ground and do 6/36mm.

 

[TSC]

 
If we are to believe that he want's 6.5 a year then I don't get why he did try to work out a deal around 6/32mm. Find the middle ground and do 6/36mm.

 
I bet if you read the article...you might find your answer...

 

[Silverdude2167]

 
I bet if you read the article...you might find your answer...

I did, what did I miss? The CBA excuse about meeting in the middle?

 

[MiracleOfO2704]

I did, what did I miss? The CBA excuse about meeting in the middle?

Or the part where JD said meeting in the middle isn't always sound strategy.

“What’s interesting is people talk who really don’t know the CBA or just want to see something happen. They say, ‘Well just meet halfway. Give him $4 million or $4.5 million.’ ” Davidson said. “That doesn’t make sense. You don’t just give him an extra million or two. A lot of people say it who are writers, broadcasters, fans…they don’t understand the process. They don’t understand the CBA. It’s sitting there. It’s a document. What are we supposed to do, give in when we have rights? Give in when they have rights? Just give in? It doesn’t make sense.”

 

[Silverdude2167]

Or the part where JD said meeting in the middle isn't always sound strategy.
 

Yah, but meeting in the middle if we are talking 6/32 or 6/39 is about half a million a year. Meeting in the middle at that point makes sense, that is 3.5 million over 6 years. I get that he is an RFA, but come on getting Johansen for say 6m per year when he is 27 or 28 is worth the extra money upfront, with the expected cap increases and what he will probably get in 2 years.
 
Hiding behind the CBA as an excuse and saying people do not understand is stupid.

 

[TSC]

No, refusing to acknowledge that an RFA has no leverage and saying that a team should "just give him the money" is stupid and would lead to contacts being even more inflated than they are now.

 

[Silverdude2167]

No, refusing to acknowledge that an RFA has no leverage and saying that a team should "just give him the money" is stupid and would lead to contacts being even more inflated than they are now.

Do you think he would be good value at 6m when he is 28 and the cap has gone up alot?

 

[MiracleOfO2704]

Do you think he would be good value at 6m when he is 28 and the cap has gone up alot?

 
That's really not the point. If you cave and give the kid a big contract in an RFA year where his only other hope of signing that big contract is an offer sheet, what's to stop the next kid that has a halfway-decent third year of his entry level contract to shoot for the moon in negotiation? Hell, that they offered to buy out his RFA years at just shy of $6 million a year is a massive concession in itself that Kekalainen and Davidson didn't have to make. In an era where every dollar counts, concessions like that is how you end up with bloated contracts and salary cap crunches. It sucks that it's the Jackets' best young player, but that's the way she goes.

 

[cshea]

The list of players that have gotten a $6.5 AAV for more than 5 years coming out of their ELC is a short one. It's basically franchise players. Stamkos got 5/$37.5 coming off his ELC. Stamkos was coming off 95 and 91 points in his last two seasons, including a Rocket Richard trophy. Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kane signed for 5/$6.5 AAV. Toews opened his NHL career with point totals of 54, 69, 68 plus a 29 point 2010 playoff campaign when he led the Blackhawks to a Stanley Cup. Kane's ELC season had point totals of 72, 70 and 88, then a 28 point 2010 Cup run.

Those 3 are not comparables for Ryan Johansen. Johansen had 2 years of finding his way before breaking out in 2014-2014. The closest comparable I can come up with off the top of my head is Derek Stepan, and Stepan had a better overall body of work in his 3 ELC years than Johansen. Stepan's second contract was 2/$6.15 million.

 

[Silverdude2167]

I think there is a balance to be struck here. Yes giving out a big contract in an RFA year can be bad business.
But if you think he is going to be great and expect the cap to be going up giving him the money now makes sense. Would you rather pay 8+ when he is an FA based upon how contracts are going.
 
And no matter the comparable players they offered 5.3 AAV, why not offer 6 AAV over 6 years, if it means the final 4 years of the deal are good value? 
 
I am not saying drastically change how you are doing business, but if you are willing to go 6/32 why not 6/36.

 

[cshea]

Because there is no reason too. They hold all the cards.

 

[Red Right Ankle]

I think there is a balance to be struck here. Yes giving out a big contract in an RFA year can be bad business.
But if you think he is going to be great and expect the cap to be going up giving him the money now makes sense. Would you rather pay 8+ when he is an FA based upon how contracts are going.
 
And no matter the comparable players they offered 5.3 AAV, why not offer 6 AAV over 6 years, if it means the final 4 years of the deal are good value? 
 
I am not saying drastically change how you are doing business, but if you are willing to go 6/32 why not 6/36.

Cap space is precious and you can't rely wholly on your future cap increase projections, as, if you are wrong, it can wreak havoc on your roster planning.  Bruins fans are learning this this year.  You have to make sure that you are maximizing the available space in the short and long term and that means using your leverage when you have it to ensure that your RFA contract costs don't skyrocket on you.  
 
The BJs have 5 RFAs next year.  Setting an RFA overpay precedent could be really harmful to their future cap space as those RFAs will ask for overpayments as well AND those overpayments will set the new baseline for their compensation going forward.  Moreover, every dollar they overspend on RFAs is a dollar they can't use to bring back or replace UFAs as well.
 
You overpay UFAs by a little if you must because you are generally in the weaker position, not RFAs.

 

[Silverdude2167]

Cap space is precious and you can't rely wholly on your future cap increase projections, as, if you are wrong, it can wreak havoc on your roster planning.  Bruins fans are learning this this year.  You have to make sure that you are maximizing the available space in the short and long term and that means using your leverage when you have it to ensure that your RFA contract costs don't skyrocket on you.  
 
The BJs have 5 RFAs next year.  Setting an RFA overpay precedent could be really harmful to their future cap space as those RFAs will ask for overpayments as well AND those overpayments will set the new baseline for their compensation going forward.  Moreover, every dollar they overspend on RFAs is a dollar they can't use to bring back or replace UFAs as well.
 
You overpay UFAs by a little if you must because you are generally in the weaker position, not RFAs.

I don't disagree with this. I just do not understand an organization who is willing to spend 5.3 a year but not 6. We can't even say cap space because they have a ton and would actually be saving cap space in the future when they would conceivably have less because of the 5 upcoming RFA's, etc.
 
I don't understand their CBA defense, it is not like they held firm on their two year offer. They went 6 at 5.3 AAV, you can't say we can't do this because of the "CBA and we have rights" and then go ~90% of the way to a middle ground.
 
If they only offered the 2 year deal and said we have rights and the CBA, fine I agree. I don't agree when you offer 6/32 and won't consider meeting in the middle based off of the desire to make 6.5

 

[TSC]

I just do not understand 

 
 
You could have just left it at this. Plenty of smart people here have patiently explained to you why this is happening. 

 

[Silverdude2167]

Yes and everyone has said don't over pay RFA's. That is great, but they wanted to over pay the RFA, so if we go by their logic and not this boards, it makes little sense.

 

[cshea]

We don't even know of the 6 and 8 year deals are even in the ballpark of what the Johansen camp wants. My guess it they aren't even close. Those deals include buying out UFA years, and the Johansen camp appears to be intent on maximizing his earning potential so buying UFA years may be a non-starter for them. JD went public with the figures to build up support and direct the publics ire towards Overhardt. Who knows if those are actually close to what Johansen wants, but my guess is they aren't.

 

[Silverdude2167]

Good point.

 

[cshea]

In other news, we're barely half a day into camps and we've already got a crisis in Leafstown.

http://m.thestar.com/#/article/sports/leafs/2014/09/17/leafs_kessel_not_hot_on_spotts_breakout_strategy_feschuk.html

Lots of good stuff in there. Kessel and a new Leaf assistant don't see eye-to-eye on a breakout strategy. This new coach then thinks it's a good idea to use Phil as an example at a Coach's Clinic he was speaking at and he wasn't all that kind to Phillip and the Leafs organization saying that Phil hates all coaches and that Carlyle basically gives in to Phil's wishes because that's what the organization wants and Kessel will be there longer than Carlyle anyway. Oh, and he basically calls Phil fat too. Not that this guy is wrong about anything, but probably not a good idea to speak publicly using Kessel as an example. Especially when you haven't even been behind the bench for an NHL game yet.

 

[PedroSpecialK]

That article was pretty poorly written - they barely mention that they ended up compromising on the breakout strategy.

In other news, Horton to be limited in training camp with a back injury.

Jackets may already be regretting that 7 year term

 

[Red Right Ankle]

I don't disagree with this. I just do not understand an organization who is willing to spend 5.3 a year but not 6. 

The "you went this far, why not go all the way argument" only works on girls in high school, man.  And even then, not all the time.

 

[Fred in Lynn]

Kind of old news: http://mobile.philly.com/sports/flyers/?wss=/philly/sports/flyers&id=275677871

Nothing new for Timonen; likely done.

 

[McDrew]

The "you went this far, why not go all the way argument" only works on girls in high school, man.  And even then, not all the time.

Just the tip?

 

[steveluck7]

Hate the team and player and question the need for the production value for a alternate jersey reveal but nonetheless, the Pens new alternate sewaters are a nice throwback

 

[FL4WL3SS]

Other agents are now speaking out about how Overhardt has mishandled the Johansen negotiations.
 
http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/09/22/even-some-agents-dont-get-what-overhardt-is-doing-with-johansen-demands/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs
 

 
“I think it’s been terribly mishandled by the player and the agent,” one unnamed agent told the Hockey News. “It flies in the face of all convention. I look at it almost like a lawyer dealing with a client in court. I would tell the player, ‘If you insist on taking this position, our chances of success are almost nil. I don’t like your chances at all and I’m under obligation to tell you that. ‘”

 
Other GMs are coming out and supporting the Blue Jackets. Either this kid is completely naive and is being over-shadowed by Overhardt or is entirely money hungry. I feel he probably doesn't really understand what is going on and is getting bad advice from Overhardt. He needs to fire this guy.

 

[McDrew]

So basically Krug and Smith are doing it right by taking their slightly-less-unreasonable demands and keeping them quiet. 

 

[cshea]

I found it interesting that Overhardt also represents Kyle Turris who went through a similar ordeal with Arizona. Turris held out, eventually signed a 2-year deal before being traded a month or so later. I wonder if the Johansen end game is similar, a trade out of Columbus. The Johansen camp can't really shop around for an offer sheet because they run the risk of being stuck in Columbus if Columbus matches.  

 

[The Napkin]

Jordan Staal took a hit and was helped off the ice - no weight on his right leg
 
https://twitter.com/TSNAaronWard/status/514614003696672768

 

[PedroSpecialK]

Aaand he broke a bone in his leg

 

[RedOctober3829]

Larry Brooks ‏@NYP_Brooksie 18m
Stepan helped off ice after going down, clutching left leg/knee, during #NYR conditioning test. No contact, simply fell to ice...
 

 

[Red Right Ankle]

Staal injuries:NHL season::Swallows:Spring in Capistrano

 

[RedOctober3829]

Stepan broke his fibula per Larry Brooks.

 

[Ed Hillel]

He broke his leg during a conditioning test? I'm assuming there had to have been a hairline fracture before.

 

[Dim13]

The first of what are sure to be many Wings injuries this year: Datsyuk out 2-4 weeks with a separated shoulder.
 
Link

 

[RedOctober3829]

He broke his leg during a conditioning test? I'm assuming there had to have been a hairline fracture before.

Non-contact injury.  It was a skating drill so he could have hit a rut in the ice and twisted his leg that way.  Either way, it's another excuse for a slow start by the Rangers.  They can't use the long road trip to start the season anymore since the Garden renovations are done.

 

[The Napkin]

Jordan Staal took a hit and was helped off the ice - no weight on his right leg
 
https://twitter.com/TSNAaronWard/status/514614003696672768

 
 
Out 3-4 months...

 

[SawxSince67]

Nathan Horton, bad back.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/nathan-horton-has-a-degenerative-back-condition-212203156.html

 

[McDrew]

Dallas rolled out a power play of Seguin-Benn-Spezza-Hemsky-Some other guy.  Seguin scored twice late for a hat trick with that unit.  Dallas' PP% was just 15.9% last year.  Maybe they'll see a Krug-like bounce this year?  (B's went from 14.8->21.7 in Krug's first full year)

 

[Red Right Ankle]

That unit is gonna score a lot of PP goals but they better hope the other team doesn't get it out of the zone 'cause no one's going to come back to play defense.