Shams: Celtics "engaged in conversations" with 76ers for Ben Simmons

[nighthob]

As much of a Jaylen guy as I was I have never had his value to the level of Simmons. Frankly, few players in the league have. Question…..how does a player avg close to 20 ppg without shooting the basketball? Scorekeeper friend, osmosis, efficiency? How does this work?

Is this one of those almost starter minutes things?

 

[lovegtm]

The point I wanted to make by bringing up Simmons wasn't just that I like Ben Simmons (although I do, and think he makes it easier to play good shooters who are flawed in other ways).

It was that if the team can't fix whatever has them losing to literal G-League teams, the clock will be ticking on getting value for Brown before he inevitably walks.

2.5 years on his contract, you get good value back. 1.5 years, you get ok value but the acquiring team is worried about signability. Expiring, and you're looking at the DeRozan+Poetl+29 pick pupu platter.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Sure but I don’t know why you’d want to overweigh a single game or a single playoff series when we have a full body of work to see for a player who was just 24 at the time.

You know who else are non-shooters?

The guy he’s defending.

His body of work in the playoffs is trending in the wrong direction. Not just one series--3 years of scoring decline. His body of work in the regular season is stagnant.

I'm all for moving Smart, TL, and picks for him, because he is a defensive stud. Or something else. And I'm a guy who values defense. But we shouldn't pretend that his negatives don't exist. He's at his ceiling, and he has anxiety issues about shooting the ball (especially in clutch situations). He's still a stud anyway because of the things that he can do well.

I'm not anti Simmons. I'm just trying to get the pro Simmons folks to be honest that the guy is a flawed player. And that factors into the acquisition cost...or at least it should. Morey's going to find that out too. We're 2 weeks past that magic day when half the league can be traded and crickets so far.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

His body of work in the playoffs is trending in the wrong direction. Not just one series--3 years of scoring decline. His body of work in the regular season is stagnant.

I'm all for moving Smart, TL, and picks for him, because he is a defensive stud. Or something else. And I'm a guy who values defense. But we shouldn't pretend that his negatives don't exist. He's at his ceiling, and he has anxiety issues about shooting the ball (especially in clutch situations). He's still a stud anyway because of the things that he can do well.

I'm not anti Simmons. I'm just trying to get the pro Simmons folks to be honest that the guy is a flawed player. And that factors into the acquisition cost...or at least it should. Morey's going to find that out too. We're 2 weeks past that magic day when half the league can be traded and crickets so far.

Is there anyone who doesn’t recognize that Simmons is a flawed player or that his negatives don’t exist? Even as he’s been flatlining over the last 3 years in his early 20’s he was still a perennial All-Star that wasn’t disputed by many. I just don’t like the direction that the Tatum/Jaylen tandem is trending as a duo who are too often redundant.

 

[DJnVa]

Yes, what the team needs is a guy with the heart of a field mouse.

Well, at least not another one.

 

[Cellar-Door]

His body of work in the playoffs is trending in the wrong direction. Not just one series--3 years of scoring decline. His body of work in the regular season is stagnant.

I'm all for moving Smart, TL, and picks for him, because he is a defensive stud. Or something else. And I'm a guy who values defense. But we shouldn't pretend that his negatives don't exist. He's at his ceiling, and he has anxiety issues about shooting the ball (especially in clutch situations). He's still a stud anyway because of the things that he can do well.

I'm not anti Simmons. I'm just trying to get the pro Simmons folks to be honest that the guy is a flawed player. And that factors into the acquisition cost...or at least it should. Morey's going to find that out too. We're 2 weeks past that magic day when half the league can be traded and crickets so far.

I don't want to trade Brown for him, but....
I'm not so sure I'd say his body of work is trending in the wrong direction in the playoffs. His scoring has declined, but his efficiency jumped year 2, and stayed higher in year 3 (even with his FT shot abandoning him) than year 1, now some of that is a decrease in usage year 1 to 2 (steady in 3), but he's also turning it over at a lower rate, and his impact on their offense has been bigger (some of that may be depth/rotation related, but even in the game Embiid missed last year, he went for 19/10/11 on 7/11 from the floor and 5/8 from the line).
Simmons had a terrible series against the Hawks, but there isn't really any evidence of a downward trend in anything over his playoff performances except shots, and the massive increase in efficiency indicates he's keeping the good shots and losing the ones he shouldn't take. He's basically done what a lot of people want Marcus Smart to do on offense... pass more and better, and stop missing bad shots.

I'm not thrilled with the idea of a Brown/Simmons swap, but I'd jump at any non-Brown/Tatum deal, and I'd have to strongly consider a 3 way deal that sent Brown/Smart + out for Simmons and another young impact player (or an older STAR).