Shohei Ohtani now counts as two people, and other rules changes announced 3/31

AB in DC

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https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-rule-changes-for-2022

1. Pitcher and DH can be the same person, and replacing him as pitcher does not require replacing him as DH and vice versa.
2. 28-man rosters through May 1, no limit on # of pitchers/non-pitchers
3. Man on second starting in extra innings again (ugh)

The first rule seems like a permanent change, other two are for 2022 only.
 

RG33

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I have to say that I like the “man on second” rule. I think it adds a fun dimension and speeds up what are usually laborious extra inning games. I also love shootouts in regular season hockey, so maybe I’m just a jerk.
 

LogansDad

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I mean, they've basically been saying it's coming back for this season since the day after the lockout ended, it isn't really a surprise at this point.
 

teddywingman

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Anyone who needs a game to end faster because it is in extra innings is not a baseball fan.

Edit: go to bed. Stop watching. Become a fan of something else. Fuck off.
 

Murderer's Crow

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Jomboy brought up a great alternative to the runner on 2nd. I'm sure he isn't the first but the proposal is that the 10th and 11th would be normal innings but the 12th would start the runner on second. I like that.
 

Harry Hooper

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Starting Pitcher as Designated Hitter. It is not mandatory that a Club designate a hitter for the pitcher. However, in the event the starting pitcher will bat for himself, the player will be considered two separate people for purposes of Rule 5.11(a). In such cases, the manager should list 10 players on his team’s lineup card, and this player should be named twice -- once as the starting pitcher and once as the Designated Hitter. Thus, if the starting pitcher is replaced, he can continue as the Designated Hitter, and if the Designated Hitter is replaced, he can continue as the pitcher (but can no longer hit for himself). If the player is simultaneously replaced both as a starting pitcher and Designated Hitter, he cannot be replaced by another two-way player filling both roles as separate people (this can be done only once on the initial lineup card by identifying that the starting pitcher will bat for himself).
I have 2 questions:

1) Could the starting pitcher & DH person (Ohtani, for example) continue on as DH in the game as another pitcher takes the mound, but then return to the mound to pitch later in the game?
2) In regard to "If the player is simultaneously replaced both as a starting pitcher and Designated Hitter, he cannot be replaced by another two-way player filling both roles as separate people," what is the motivation for MLB to block replacing a two-way player with another two-way player?
 

Remagellan

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From the above, it sounds like once the dual person is replaced in one of his roles, he loses his dual status for the remainder of the game. ("...if the Designated Hitter is replaced, he can continue as the pitcher (but can no longer hit for himself)." )
 

Koufax

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Here's a gripe that probably isn't worth of its own thread but fits with some difficulty here. I was at opening day at Fenway. To my dismay, they now crank up the volume on the PA system to 11 in between innings, during mount visits and in any other pauses, and play music. Not just any music. Awful music. That in addition to the 4 hour pace of play is why I won't be going to another game at Fenway this year, even though I am (in theory) a season ticket holder. I hate that stuff at the Garden when I go to Celtics games. It's as if they really, really don't want to to talk to your neighbor or have a thought in your head. They just want you to get drunk. I'm not having it.

And yeah, I love the runner on second in the 10th inning. The games are way, way too long as it is. Give us some drama and a quick ending. Put us out of our misery.
 

BaseballJones

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They've got probably the two best players in all of MLB, and they're 5 games under .500. Crazy.
 

Marciano490

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Does he win MVP every year he performs well as a hitter and pitcher? He’s clearly the most valuable player in baseball, but will writers and fans get bored?
 

Kliq

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Does he win MVP every year he performs well as a hitter and pitcher? He’s clearly the most valuable player in baseball, but will writers and fans get bored?
Eventually writers do get bored of a candidate and they will stop voting. There is a pretty good race in the AL right now if you just go by WAR; Ohtani, Yordan, Judge, Devers, Trout and Ramirez are all right about the same level at the moment. I think all things being equal, Ohtani should have the edge because he is pitching and hitting and how mind-blowing that is, and I'd vote for him every year he was in the mix. If Judge hits 60 homers and the Yankees win 110 games, he might win it though.

I got the sense a lot of voters didn't expect Ohtani to be able to repeat his performance from last year; the pick for AL MVP that I saw almost universally before the season was Guerrero Jr. Ohtani actually hasn't repeated his season from last year; he's worse as a hitter but better as a pitcher, which in some ways is more remarkable.
 

BigSoxFan

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I didn't even realize until a minute ago that Mike Trout is on the first list, too. The Angels haven't made the playoffs in 8 years and haven't won a playoff game in 13 years. Disgraceful doesn't even begin to describe it.
Hey, it's pretty hard to win with only 2 once-in-a-generation type talents. That Rendon contract was such a killer for them. $38M / year for next 4 seasons after 2022. This year, both guys have largely been healthy and they're 38-46. That's just horrendous.
 

jon abbey

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He doesn’t want to play on the East Coast, same as when he was a FA before.
 

Kliq

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I didn't even realize until a minute ago that Mike Trout is on the first list, too. The Angels haven't made the playoffs in 8 years and haven't won a playoff game in 13 years. Disgraceful doesn't even begin to describe it.
They are hitting in the same lineup too; oftentimes next to each other. So one guy is the best guy in baseball at delivering extra-base hits when runners are in scoring position, and the other guy is the second best, and yet...
 

SumnerH

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They are hitting in the same lineup too; oftentimes next to each other. So one guy is the best guy in baseball at delivering extra-base hits when runners are in scoring position, and the other guy is the second best, and yet...
The Angels are bottom 7 in the league in OBP, and a chunk of that is Ohtani/Trout themselves (not getting on base in front of them).

It's like having the world's 2 most efficient water pumps in the middle of the Sahara.
 

jon abbey

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Even still, the thought made me a little nauseous…

Has he actually said he still doesn’t want to play on the east coast? I’m not saying you’re wrong, I just haven’t heard that
I thought I read that but don’t see confirmation on a quick search.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I thought I read that but don’t see confirmation on a quick search.
I think it's a reasonable assumption that if being on the west coast was a priority the first time around, it would remain a priority. He ultimately signed with the Angels because Los Angeles has a large Japanese community and they had way more international bonus money to offer than the Dodgers. Other teams had more bonus money to offer, including "finalists" Seattle and Texas, but ultimately he chose L.A. which says to me that the community was a higher priority than money.

Of course that could change if a team were to make a Godfather type offer, but it's not like the Angels are shy about throwing money around. I think they'd go over the top to keep him.
 

DisgruntledSoxFan77

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I thought I read that but don’t see confirmation on a quick search.
I was always of the opinion that the west coast thing was his way of getting accustomed to MLB but from a closer distance to Japan, just in case it wasn’t what he hoped. Now that he’s had the impact we all thought he could have he might be more open to other regions
 

jon abbey

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FWIW, I just noticed that Ohtani has massive career pitching splits, a 2.17 career ERA at home and a 4.53 career ERA on the road.
 

BoSox Rule

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I kinda hate home and road splits and in this instance we’re talking about 115 innings on the road that looks like all comes down to hits and BABIP.
 

phrenile

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Has he actually said he still doesn’t want to play on the east coast? I’m not saying you’re wrong, I just haven’t heard that
It was an unsourced excuse for not signing him that the Yankees were peddling in December 2017.
The Yanks previously were considered to be one of the favorites to land Otani, but Cashman indicated he began to get a "sense" the Bombers shouldn't be too confident soon after submitting their initial written presentation to the player's agency, the baseball division of CAA.

According to Cashman, the feedback the Yanks received was that being a big-market team and playing on the East Coast actually worked against them.

"I started getting a feel that wasn't good a few days ago," Cashman said. "I knew that our presentation was excellent. The feedback from that was outstanding, but I did get a sense that I can't change that we're a big market and I can't change that we're in the east.

"So that was something that, presentation or not, might be a difficult thing to overcome. But we would see. Then I got the unfortunate news today that we were out of the picture. That does not mean that anybody east coast and anybody big market is out of the picture. I can't speak for them. But I did get a feel that we were in jeopardy when I got praise on the presentation, but it felt like I was getting prepared for something that was coming that I wasn't going to want to hear."
https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/yankees-running-land-shohei-otani-article-1.3674915
Hal Steinbrenner on Shohei Ohtani: "It was a bit disappointing but it is what it is. There's nothing we could have done differently in my opinion. Big markets are not for everyone, East Coast is not for everyone."
View: https://twitter.com/BryanHoch/status/938498111491727360
 

jon abbey

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Unsourced maybe, but it’s easy to look at Ohtani’s chosen list of seven finalists back then and see the accuracy.

“The Shohei Ohtani Hot Stove League has taken a new twist as reports indicate he has narrowed his list of teams to seven: the Dodgers, Angels, Giants, Padres, Mariners, Rangers and Cubs.”
 

Daniel_Son

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The real LA team then? ;)
That actually would fit, given that Bellinger is a FA in the same offseason. San Diego also makes some sense - their top OF prospect is still a couple years away, and other than Grisham they don't have anyone out there long-term.

I think the baseball world would collectively shit itself if Tatis and Ohtani were on the same roster.
 

axx

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That actually would fit, given that Bellinger is a FA in the same offseason. San Diego also makes some sense - their top OF prospect is still a couple years away, and other than Grisham they don't have anyone out there long-term.
We are talking about Shohei right? Last year he played a whopping 8 innings across 7 games in the outfield the entire season. He's a DH.That would be something if they got him to be the everyday CF when he doesn't pitch.
 

Daniel_Son

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We are talking about Shohei right? Last year he played a whopping 8 innings across 7 games in the outfield the entire season. He's a DH.That would be something if they got him to be the everyday CF when he doesn't pitch.
You're right lol. Long day.
 

Yelling At Clouds

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Curiously, Mark Feinsand - who’s generally pretty on the ball and well-connected - drops Shohei Ohtani into a column on “players improving their trade stock.” No indication the Angels are listening, and Feinsand doesn’t suggest they are, but at the same time, why include him in the first place? Probably nothing, but who knows anymore.