Smart Move: Keep or Say Goodbye to Marcus?

Eddie Jurak

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This is where I stand as well.

That said, I'm struck by the irony this choice may actually end up neutering Smart's greatest advantage. The man can absolutely defend four positions credibly, but I'm not sure that playoff-quality 1s are on that list.
Smart's history here is less "overly prolific shooter" as someone who throws up a few ill-timed shots that look awful and get disproportionate attention, especially when the team is on the shorthanded side. Regardless of his role, Smart will shoot less next year simply because the Celtics are healthier (we hope).

As to defense, over the past few years, the top strategy for attacking the Celtics in the playoffs has been to attack Kemba or Kyrie or IT with switches. With Smart at the point, that vulnerability goes away.
 

bankshot1

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Udoka did his maiden voyage with the SportsHub, and taking him at his word, he loves Smart, loves the intangibles, the toughness, his lack of fear, the leadership and is a foundational piece along with the Js

So if refocusing and rebuilding D is a high priority, Marcus ain't going anywhere.
 

the moops

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That said, I'm struck by the irony this choice may actually end up neutering Smart's greatest advantage. The man can absolutely defend four positions credibly, but I'm not sure that playoff-quality 1s are on that list.
There aren't tooo many players in the league who can credibly guard the elite 1's. though. But in this playoffs, I think you could make an argument that Smart could credibly guard more of the 1's than not.
 

DJnVa

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Udoka did his maiden voyage with the SportsHub, and taking him at his word, he loves Smart, loves the intangibles, the toughness, his lack of fear, the leadership and is a foundational piece along with the Js

So if refocusing and rebuilding D is a high priority, Marcus ain't going anywhere.
Udoka was a defensive guy when playing, I can't see him wanting to move Smart. And, if the defensive players are allowed a bit more contact this season, that can only help Smart.
 

Jimbodandy

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There aren't tooo many players in the league who can credibly guard the elite 1's. though. But in this playoffs, I think you could make an argument that Smart could credibly guard more of the 1's than not.
Yeah. I'm guilty of stanning for Smart as much as anyone, but we're setting a pretty goofy bar if we're giving folks a scarlet letter for not staying in front of elite 1s.
 

nighthob

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There aren't tooo many players in the league who can credibly guard the elite 1's. though. But in this playoffs, I think you could make an argument that Smart could credibly guard more of the 1's than not.
After our last three point guards being Lil' Zeke, the Demon Kyzuzu, and Kemba I can't believe that people would be complaining about Smart's defense.
 

Fishy1

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I actually had the opposite impression, that the main culprit with the defense this year was mainly a few guys getting repeatedly roasted 1 on 1 / at the point of attack. Marcus was among that group to my eyes.
I felt that way sometimes, but my head tells me I was wrong. One of those cases where your mileage will vary, I guess. I agree that Marcus had stretches where he looked less than himself defensively, but I'm just not that worried about it. It was a long, hard season, he had an injury in the middle of the year, and the team was so disjointed that Marcus getting beat off the dribble could seem like a catastrophe when really it's just a part of being a guard in the NBA.

In fact I even remain cautiously optimistic that he has yet to really have a career year on offense, and even that letting him drive the car on offense a little more will be good for him and the team. If the Celtics resign Fournier and stay healthy, Smart will definitely post another career high in assists, and we'll see a drop in FGA and a rise in his percentages. Horford and Fournier together should eat up about 20-25 shots, which should allow Smart to get back to taking 8-9 shots a game.

After our last three point guards being Lil' Zeke, the Demon Kyzuzu, and Kemba I can't believe that people would be complaining about Smart's defense.
I can believe it: last year's team was so disappointing it's tempting to blame everybody and anybody. But yeah, Smart's defense was not the problem.
 

Cellar-Door

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Smart's history here is less "overly prolific shooter" as someone who throws up a few ill-timed shots that look awful and get disproportionate attention, especially when the team is on the shorthanded side. Regardless of his role, Smart will shoot less next year simply because the Celtics are healthier (we hope).

As to defense, over the past few years, the top strategy for attacking the Celtics in the playoffs has been to attack Kemba or Kyrie or IT with switches. With Smart at the point, that vulnerability goes away.
I'd say for Smart it's not that he takes too many shots (he probably does, but...) it's that he has very poor decision making process on when to shoot. He takes a lot of shots that just make no sense for his skills or the team.
Marcus Smart should never be taking pullup 3s with 18+ seconds on the clock. Marcus should not call his own number on key possessions, he should not be taking DEEP 3s unless the clock in under 3 seconds. The problem is far too often he does. And it's often a product of his struggle to find the right side of the emotional boundary. You need to get fired up to play D like he does. However, you need to find the line where it doesn't lead to stupid decisions on both ends. Marcus is 27, the biggest thing he needs is to mature before it's too late. He needs to decide if he's midget Boogie or he wants to be a dependable player.
 

HomeRunBaker

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There aren't tooo many players in the league who can credibly guard the elite 1's. though. But in this playoffs, I think you could make an argument that Smart could credibly guard more of the 1's than not.
The problem now is that we don’t have his elite wing defense available bc we are wasting it on him “maybe” being passable against 1’s. On the other end our offensive continuity suffers as we saw this playoffs when Marcus was running the point in how he struggled getting to spots with the ball to initiate the offense. Tatum went to get the ball and often scored out of iso but that isn’t an offense that can function over 82 games. He’s really not good with the dribble against guards denying him his angles and spot.
 

nighthob

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The problem now is that we don’t have his elite wing defense available bc we are wasting it on him “maybe” being passable against 1’s. On the other end our offensive continuity suffers as we saw this playoffs when Marcus was running the point in how he struggled getting to spots with the ball to initiate the offense. Tatum went to get the ball and often scored out of iso but that isn’t an offense that can function over 82 games. He’s really not good with the dribble against guards denying him his angles and spot.
In fairness it's a lot easier to find a 6'2" shooting guard to defend the 1 spot than a pure PG to play the position. Marcus might be the point guard, but there's nothing to say that he has to guard the 1 spot.
 

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I think it might be wise to look at who on each upper level team, you want Marcus guarding.
For example, on the Nets, do you want him on Kyrie or Harden?
On Milwaukee: Middleton or Holliday?
On Philly: Simmons or Curry?
On ATL: Young or Bogdan?
On LAC: Kawhi or PG13 or Jackson?
etc
I think in most cases, I’d rather he be on the wing than the PG.
 

Just a bit outside

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Isn’t the goal to have everyone switchable? I mean we have watched teams just hunt the weakest defender on each team. If Marcus is on the point guard they are going to hunt Fournier. That is why having Romeo learn to be playable on offense would be so much fun. Who are you hunting if you have Tatum, Brown, Romeo, and Smart on the floor? If would be the center and we are hoping TL and Al could hold up.

If teams are hunting Smart I think that is a win for the Celtics.
 

benhogan

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He wasn't mentioned once in the press conference yesterday, so as far as I'm concerned he's a piece they use if they need to and keep if they don't. We heard about the J's and Nesmith and Langford, past that I would guess everyone else is fungible and obviously Nesmith/romeo would be as well if you could get the third piece.
Smart was mentioned in the presser yesterday.

The Jays were mentioned as the "pillars". Young players mentioned were Aaron, Romeo, Grant and Pritchard.
And veterans Marcus and Horford

Tristan Thompson wasn't mentioned and the most likely to be traded for numerous reasons.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Smart was mentioned in the presser yesterday.

The Jays were mentioned as the "pillars". Young players mentioned were Aaron, Romeo, Grant and Pritchard.
And veterans Marcus and Horford

Tristan Thompson wasn't mentioned and the most likely to be traded for numerous reasons.
I don’t see a scenario where Thompson returns. His contract is ideal to swap out for depth now that Horford essentially replaces him.
 

NomarsFool

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Assuming he can find a way to contribute offensively, I believe Romeo is your top defender against opposing team's PGs.
 

benhogan

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I don’t see a scenario where Thompson returns. His contract is ideal to swap out for depth now that Horford essentially replaces him.
I just want to add this disclaimer: TT worked his azz off, well-spoken, another nice vet (Kemba also) but agree his salary is a good swap piece. TT's production can be replaced by a mix of Brown, Kornet? & Grant (I'd still add another 5 on the cheap to put on a 2-way).

As much as TL gets injured and Horford's age is worrying, the team can't invest $9MM+ in a 3rd string Center. They need ballhandling depth and that salary slot can help add depth.

This team can really use Al Horford. He's a sizeable upgrade from TT and Theis.
Floor spacer, ball mover, intelligent defender, veteran. Al is a good complimentary piece to the Jay's
 
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NomarsFool

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Assuming he can find a way to contribute offensively, I believe Romeo is your top defender against opposing team's PGs.
 

lovegtm

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I think it might be wise to look at who on each upper level team, you want Marcus guarding.
For example, on the Nets, do you want him on Kyrie or Harden?
On Milwaukee: Middleton or Holliday?
On Philly: Simmons or Curry?
On ATL: Young or Bogdan?
On LAC: Kawhi or PG13 or Jackson?
etc
I think in most cases, I’d rather he be on the wing than the PG.
The answer is "Romeo" in the case of the smaller guys, and probably for a lot of the bigger ones too.

I'm not going to give Smart away, but the Celtics should absolutely be looking for whether there's an upgrade.
 

benhogan

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I think they need to shoot higher than "a touch better Wannamker". Patty Mills would be a sweet addition to this team but not seeing a way to get him.
Sure, a lot of it depends on what TT++ can get PBS.

TT gets him salary room, ++ gets him a better ballhandler.

The PG situation does revolve around Smart's fitness level, "fat/2021 Marcus" is a meh defender. Chiseled/trim Marcus is a terror all over the court.

also, Ime's history/experience with PP may give Payton more rope than most are expecting.
 

Cellar-Door

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I think they need to shoot higher than "a touch better Wannamker". Patty Mills would be a sweet addition to this team but not seeing a way to get him.
I think the targets should be guys like:
Satoransky
Wright
McConnell
maybe AUgustin if he's free.

FA stretch goal... Cam Payne or Dragic
 

Jimbodandy

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Sure, a lot of it depends on what TT++ can get PBS.

TT gets him salary room, ++ gets him a better ballhandler.

The PG situation does revolve around Smart's fitness level, "fat/2021 Marcus" is a meh defender. Chiseled/trim Marcus is a terror all over the court.

also, Ime's history/experience with PP may give Payton more rope than most are expecting.
I don't know about more rope for PP as much as he may have a better understanding of how to use him. He might not, but he might. For example, any change in the offense that produces better ball movement and rotation should result in better looks for PP. And despite his fantastic handle, his greatest attribute is his shot, not an ability to create off the dribble.

Nobody knows what contract year Marcus looks like, but I'd be shocked as fuck if he isn't fitter. That's honestly not very high on my list of concerns about this team.
 

TripleOT

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PP at $2.1 million is better for this roster than Augustin at $7.7 million, or Mills at whatever he's going to get as a UFA, besides the veteran's minimum. He made $13 million this season.

If Boston feels the need to bring in a PG, signing a short PG when they have cost controlled PP, who shot better than 40% from three as a rookie, would be foolish. Find a tall PG who can defend and run offense, or just play Pritchard
 

Cesar Crespo

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PP at $2.1 million is better for this roster than Augustin at $7.7 million, or Mills at whatever he's going to get as a UFA, besides the veteran's minimum. He made $13 million this season.

If Boston feels the need to bring in a PG, signing a short PG when they have cost controlled PP, who shot better than 40% from three as a rookie, would be foolish. Find a tall PG who can defend and run offense, or just play Pritchard
While I agree they should avoid signing a short PG, PP isn't really a PG.
 

Cellar-Door

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PP at $2.1 million is better for this roster than Augustin at $7.7 million, or Mills at whatever he's going to get as a UFA, besides the veteran's minimum. He made $13 million this season.

If Boston feels the need to bring in a PG, signing a short PG when they have cost controlled PP, who shot better than 40% from three as a rookie, would be foolish. Find a tall PG who can defend and run offense, or just play Pritchard
I don't think that's true, but also.. who cares about the money, there is not a finite amount they can afford, they won't have cap room and are unlikely to be harcapped.

PP isn't a PG, he's not close to being a PG. Augustin can run offense, PP can't.

Edit- if you asked me who the most capable PGs on this team are it would be a while before you got to PP, I'd put him behind.....
Smart, Fournier, Waters (he's a bad PG, but he's a PG). He's probably in the group with Carsen and Romeo.
 

ManicCompression

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I think the targets should be guys like:
Satoransky
Wright
McConnell
maybe AUgustin if he's free.
Satoransky is the guy I'd be interested in and with Theis becoming a UFA, I think it's possible that Bos could trade TT for Sato as the Bulls are pretty thin after Vuc - expiring for expiring. With a guy of Satoransky's size, the Celtics would have an interesting and complementary rotation at the 1 of guys who can play off ball when the Jays are cooking.

I don't think they need a premium, ball dominant point guard, they just need someone who's not a 6', can move the ball, and can hit a jumper for 20 or so minutes a game.
 

HomeRunBaker

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PP at $2.1 million is better for this roster than Augustin at $7.7 million, or Mills at whatever he's going to get as a UFA, besides the veteran's minimum. He made $13 million this season.

If Boston feels the need to bring in a PG, signing a short PG when they have cost controlled PP, who shot better than 40% from three as a rookie, would be foolish. Find a tall PG who can defend and run offense, or just play Pritchard
Augustin is a guy who fills the need I’ve been speaking about as a guy who can play pure 1 against first units. I had mentioned Tyus Jones but Augustin provides similar to Jones which is different that Pritchard is able to provide.
 

Cellar-Door

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Augustin is a guy who fills the need I’ve been speaking about as a guy who can play pure 1 against first units. I had mentioned Tyus Jones but Augustin provides similar to Jones which is different that Pritchard is able to provide.
I almost put Jones on my list but couldn't think of a reason MEM would move him.
 

benhogan

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I don't know about more rope for PP as much as he may have a better understanding of how to use him. He might not, but he might. For example, any change in the offense that produces better ball movement and rotation should result in better looks for PP. And despite his fantastic handle, his greatest attribute is his shot, not an ability to create off the dribble.

Nobody knows what contract year Marcus looks like, but I'd be shocked as fuck if he isn't fitter. That's honestly not very high on my list of concerns about this team.
Do we really know what PP is, he's just starting his NBA career? I expect all of the kids to be better (Langford, Nesmith, PP, Grant, Carsen) or they won't get minutes. I love after a season or two people (not you Jimbo) are absolutely positive about what a player is. I'm old enough to remember (6 mths ago) that TimeLord was considered a useless/3rd string Center by some.

Player development, time, injury luck, shrewd signings & deals is the key to #18. No shortcuts.

unless Bradley Beal forces the Wizard's hands.
 

benhogan

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I almost put Jones on my list but couldn't think of a reason MEM would move him.
Jones was kind of forgotten during the playoffs. Ja, Melton, Dillion Brooks, Grayson Allen all handled the ball and played more playoff minutes than Tyus.

He's not cheap and if they want a veteran 2nd string Center, voila Tristan Thompson++
 

Cellar-Door

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Do we really know what PP is, he's just starting his NBA career? I expect all of the kids to be better (Langford, Nesmith, PP, Grant, Carsen) or they won't get minutes. I love after a season or two people (not you Jimbo) are absolutely positive about what a player is. I'm old enough to remember (6 mths ago) that TimeLord was considered a useless/3rd string Center by some.

Player development, time, injury luck, shrewd signings & deals is the key to #18. No shortcuts.

unless Bradley Beal forces the Wizard's hands.
We don't know what PP may be, but we also do know what he has been. You can definitely go into a season with PP as a bench guard with the hope he can grow into the primary ballhandler/PG role.
But if you only have him and Smart it's basically roster malpractice, because it means you NEED him to drastically improve that area of his game right away or you have the worst PG rotation in the league in terms of running offense.
PP makes a ton of sense as your bench shooter/3rd PG and he showed a lot of promise for that role. He doesn't make much sense as your #2 PG (especially when your #1 is Smart).
 

HomeRunBaker

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I almost put Jones on my list but couldn't think of a reason MEM would move him.
I actually think they are committed to trading him with the final $8m season on his contract coming due and being certain to lose him via FA next summer.
 

benhogan

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We don't know what PP may be, but we also do know what he has been. You can definitely go into a season with PP as a bench guard with the hope he can grow into the primary ballhandler/PG role.
But if you only have him and Smart it's basically roster malpractice, because it means you NEED him to drastically improve that area of his game right away or you have the worst PG rotation in the league in terms of running offense.
PP makes a ton of sense as your bench shooter/3rd PG and he showed a lot of promise for that role. He doesn't make much sense as your #2 PG (especially when your #1 is Smart).
Agreed that would be roster malpractice.

I've been pushing TT++ for a vet ballhandler for a while and have listed a bunch that have an outside possibility of being available:

sure DJ would be better than having TT on the roster. Experienced wing/ballhandler/shooter.

Otherwise, TT + assets or bad contract or pick(s) for any of these players:
Delon Wright, Monte Morris, Jalen Brunson, Satoransky, Sterling Brown, Derrick White

If Brad added any of the players listed above they could be moved + assets for Beal midseason, so you don't lose TT's salary slot.
add Tyus Jones to the above list

Murray (SAS) pipe dream
 

TripleOT

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Augustin is a guy who fills the need I’ve been speaking about as a guy who can play pure 1 against first units. I had mentioned Tyus Jones but Augustin provides similar to Jones which is different that Pritchard is able to provide.
Augustin is trash. 13 years in the league; and played in only seven playoff games. I’d rather bet on PP showing improvement as a PG in his second season, than a journeyman who has never really played high leverage minutes in 13 seasons. No thanks to another midget PG on the wrong side of thirty.
 

benhogan

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Augustin is trash. 13 years in the league; and played in only seven playoff games. I’d rather bet on PP showing improvement as a PG in his second season, than a journeyman who has never really played high leverage minutes in 13 seasons. No thanks to another midget PG on the wrong side of thirty.
hmmm you may be right on DJ, he's signed for 2 more years at $14.1MM.

DJ may be the last option in order to move TT maybe DJ's contract provides future filler
 

Cellar-Door

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Augustin is trash. 13 years in the league; and played in only seven playoff games. I’d rather bet on PP showing improvement as a PG in his second season, than a journeyman who has never really played high leverage minutes in 13 seasons. No thanks to another midget PG on the wrong side of thirty.
He's filler if you don't get someone better, because you know he's a competent NBA PG, praying PP turns into a different player overnight isn't a real strategy..
Who cares about his playoff appearances, he's a bench player not a star who dictates whether his team gets to the playoffs(also your numbers were not even close to right he's played in 38 playoff games including 10 between 2019-2020).

He'd be fairly low on my list, but he's much better than thoughts and prayers.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Augustin is trash. 13 years in the league; and played in only seven playoff games. I’d rather bet on PP showing improvement as a PG in his second season, than a journeyman who has never really played high leverage minutes in 13 seasons. No thanks to another midget PG on the wrong side of thirty.
He's not a superstar. Judging him by how many playoff games he's been in seems a bit harsh. Even if they want PP being the back up, they would still need another PG.

That 6'4 PG who can shoot 3s and switch isn't coming our way.
 

sezwho

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That 6'4 PG who can shoot 3s and switch isn't coming our way.
I think that’s Smart…but I’m revisiting my opinion about PPs role based on the observations above as on some level I was willing to have him as PG2 and he hasn’t shown enough yet.

That said, PP doesn’t need to be a different player, just one who keeps improving
 

HomeRunBaker

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Augustin is trash. 13 years in the league; and played in only seven playoff games. I’d rather bet on PP showing improvement as a PG in his second season, than a journeyman who has never really played high leverage minutes in 13 seasons. No thanks to another midget PG on the wrong side of thirty.
Trash is a bit harsh for what his role will be here and to clarify he isn’t my first choice....but he does fill a need that Pritchard does not so it will likely be a similarly skilled player to Augustin or possibly Jones to play some starter minutes.
 

Jimbodandy

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He's not a superstar. Judging him by how many playoff games he's been in seems a bit harsh. Even if they want PP being the back up, they would still need another PG.

That 6'4 PG who can shoot 3s and switch isn't coming our way.
I think that it's fine to groom PP and RL as guys that we hope on for big ballhandler minutes, but neither is a great first option off the bench for that role imo. Looked for a while that PP might be, but he just had a hard time getting where he wanted to go at times against quality. Romeo has never done it, not since high school at least. Great potential options, but some of us want more.

A grungy but proven guy who can manage an offense would be a good add, even if he is a bit smurfy. I do get why some will care about the height or locking up more than min salary for a jag, but a jag is kinda what we need.

If RL or PP show up ready for that job, fantastic. Then we have plenty of depth.

Side note, I really hope that we never see Tremont again. What a disappointing player.
 

DJnVa

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I keep seeing DJ Augustin and wondering what separates him from what we thought Jeff Teague would bring.
 

Dduncan6er

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I think that it's fine to groom PP and RL as guys that we hope on for big ballhandler minutes, but neither is a great first option off the bench for that role imo. Looked for a while that PP might be, but he just had a hard time getting where he wanted to go at times against quality. Romeo has never done it, not since high school at least. Great potential options, but some of us want more.

A grungy but proven guy who can manage an offense would be a good add, even if he is a bit smurfy. I do get why some will care about the height or locking up more than min salary for a jag, but a jag is kinda what we need.

If RL or PP show up ready for that job, fantastic. Then we have plenty of depth.

Side note, I really hope that we never see Tremont again. What a disappointing player.
I'd rather not see Waters on the roster for another season but what is so disappointing about him? He was the 51st pick in the draft. I don't think there were every really expectations on him other than to be a "break in case of emergency" PG.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I think that it's fine to groom PP and RL as guys that we hope on for big ballhandler minutes, but neither is a great first option off the bench for that role imo. Looked for a while that PP might be, but he just had a hard time getting where he wanted to go at times against quality. Romeo has never done it, not since high school at least. Great potential options, but some of us want more.

A grungy but proven guy who can manage an offense would be a good add, even if he is a bit smurfy. I do get why some will care about the height or locking up more than min salary for a jag, but a jag is kinda what we need.

If RL or PP show up ready for that job, fantastic. Then we have plenty of depth.

Side note, I really hope that we never see Tremont again. What a disappointing player.
You let PP or Romeo take the job away from the back up PG you do sign rather than hand them the job in the offseason. And yeah, Tremont is awful.

I hope Carsen is working on his PG skills too.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I keep seeing DJ Augustin and wondering what separates him from what we thought Jeff Teague would bring.
Nothing. Condemning a veteran from being as advertised based on Teague’s suckitude isn’t fair to them.
 

Jimbodandy

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I'd rather not see Waters on the roster for another season but what is so disappointing about him? He was the 51st pick in the draft. I don't think there were every really expectations on him other than to be a "break in case of emergency" PG.
From where he was drafted, absolutely right. Nobody should expect #51 to be great, or he wouldn't be #51.

But his early days showed a guy who got the ball-handler job description, but he just never developed even a little bit. Had wiggle to get to the rim, but seemed content to launch 30% shots. Had hands, feet, and BBIQ to bother guys defensively, but just never did. Maybe I was just suckered by good summer league and exhibition play.
 

nighthob

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I'd rather not see Waters on the roster for another season but what is so disappointing about him? He was the 51st pick in the draft. I don't think there were every really expectations on him other than to be a "break in case of emergency" PG.
Some of us were banging the Lou Dort drums that draft, who was a lot closer to what Boston needed. ;)