So, what do we have here? Talent review a third of the way through the season

[Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache]

Take this at a stab of conversation starter about who's a keeper, who's replaceable, and how big different holes are

Tier	Offense	Defense	Special Teams
1. Clear All Pro	-	-	-
2. Above-average-starter-to-arguable-All Pro	RB: Rham	DL: Keion White DB: Christian Gonzalez	P: Baringer
3. Average-to-above-average starter	RB: Antonio Gibson, WR: Pop Douglas, Boutte TE: Hunter Henry T: Lowe G: Michael Jordan, Onwenu	DL: Godchaux, Afernee Jennings DB: Dugger, Marte Mapu, Marcus Jones, Jonathan Jones	K: Slye ST: Brendan Schooler
4. Below-average-starter-to-bench	WR: Polk, Osborn TE: Hooper G: Nick Leverett, Zach Thomas	DL: Daniel Ekuale LB: Raekwon McMillian, Jahlani Tavai
5. Not currently an NFL player	T: 'Trey Jacobs G: Layden Robinson
TBD: Injured / unknown	QB: Maye C: Dave Andrews, Ben Brown T: Caedan Wallace G: Cole Strange, Sow	DL: Christian Barmore, Jaquelin Roy LB: Ja'Whaun Bentley DB: Peppers

I'm cheating a bit and putting Maye in my 'tbd' category only 'cause I'm not sure where in the top 3 tiers I'd put him after one game. He's definitely not a bench QB.

The guys I'm going to watching going forward for signs of more potential feel-good-player-development news: Boutte, Michael Jordan, Ben Brown, Mapu, and Jaquelin Roy. All of those names are in 'who dat?' territory for most people who follow football. But they all got playing time today and made some good plays.

As you tell from the way I filled this out I think one of the big problems for our defense is that our LBs are giving us very little, and the other two units aren't strong enough to cover for this. And the larger problem for this team is how few names there are in those top two tiers.

Anyway, have at it, Stuck

 

[Cellar-Door]

All the rookies should be in TBD.
Schooler is a tier too low
Need a below average starter category and put Lowe/Jordan/tavai/M. Jones in it

 

[tims4wins]

Rham belongs in 3. He’s nowhere near the caliber player of White or Gonzo.

 

[Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache]

Need a below average starter category and put Lowe/Jordan/tavai/M. Jones in it

That was sort of what I had in mind for "bench".... will update the name in a second

 

[j-man]

rham is not a all pro if peppers was not in hot water he couild fetched u a 2025 3rd round pick

 

[Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache]

Rham belongs in 3. He’s nowhere near the caliber player of White or Gonzo.

rham is not a all pro

Well, the tier is meant for player who are somewhere between 'above average' and 'arguable All Pro' . So if your answer to the question "Is Rham better than the average NFL starting RB?" is "Yes" than that's the tier for him. Someone can obviously be better than average and not be an All Pro or as good as White or Gonzo

 

[Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache]

Need a below average starter category and put Lowe/Jordan/tavai/M. Jones in it

We might be seeing things differently, but especially since week 1 I think both Lowe and Jordan have been in the neighborhood of 'average starter' at LT and LG.

Genuinely curious: what do you see as the different between the Jones in the backfield? They also both look pretty average for NFL starting DBs. You think Jonathan is better than Marcus?

Agree on Tavai, who really is doing too little for us out there. Gets beat constantly in pass protection and easily blocked against the run.

 

[IdiotKicker]

I don’t know how you can have 15 players as average or better when the team is nowhere near average. I think this team has maybe four non-ST players who are average or better - Gonzo, Henry, Rham, Pop. None other than Gonzo should be anywhere near a Pro Bowl.

 

[Cellar-Door]

We might be seeing things differently, but especially since week 1 I think both Lowe and Jordan have been in the neighborhood of 'average starter' at LT and LG.

Genuinely curious: what do you see as the different between the Jones in the backfield? They also both look pretty average for NFL starting DBs. You think Jonathan is better than Marcus?

Agree on Tavai, who really is doing too little for us out there. Gets beat constantly in pass protection and easily blocked against the run.

I think Jonathan is a better player yes, he's got a long history of being good and he gets the tougher assignments.

 

[tims4wins]

Well, the tier is meant for player who are somewhere between 'above average' and 'arguable All Pro' . So if your answer to the question "Is Rham better than the average NFL starting RB?" is "Yes" than that's the tier for him. Someone can obviously be better than average and not be an All Pro or as good as White or Gonzo

He’s not between above average and arguable all pro. He’s above average at best. He’s fine.

 

[Salem's Lot]

We might be seeing things differently, but especially since week 1 I think both Lowe and Jordan have been in the neighborhood of 'average starter' at LT and LG.

If Lowe and Jordan are in the neighborhood of average starters, then what does below average look like? Because to my untrained eye, those guys really suck.

 

[j-man]

i feel bad for mayo nick saban and prime bill wouild lose with this team

 

[Cellar-Door]

If Lowe and Jordan are in the neighborhood of average starters, then what does below average look like? Because to my untrained eye, those guys really suck.

I think you could make a case for Jordan as an average starter. Lowe is below but... yeah O-line play is bad league-wide.

 

[BaseballJones]

Rham belongs in 3. He’s nowhere near the caliber player of White or Gonzo.

Bingo. Especially when he fumbles so much. He's fine. Talented, but wayyyy too loose with the ball. And apparently not that durable either.

 

[tims4wins]

Bingo. Especially when he fumbles so much. He's fine. Talented, but wayyyy too loose with the ball. And apparently not that durable either.

Plus, the position has little value

 

[BaseballJones]

Plus, the position has little value

Yep. I said it at the time...I did not like signing him to that contract. He's fine to have on the team, and they had cap space available so whatever, but he's not remotely worth that kind of dough.

 

[8slim]

I don’t know how you can have 15 players as average or better when the team is nowhere near average. I think this team has maybe four non-ST players who are average or better - Gonzo, Henry, Rham, Pop. None other than Gonzo should be anywhere near a Pro Bowl.

Agree. The original list is too generous (but a good convo starter, so thanks!).

This team is bad because it has below average talent almost everywhere on the field. You could hide some of these guys if the surrounding talent was much better, but that’s not our reality here.

I’d slide literally everyone on the list, aside from Gonzalez, Pop and Henry, down a level.

 

[8slim]

Yep. I said it at the time...I did not like signing him to that contract. He's fine to have on the team, and they had cap space available so whatever, but he's not remotely worth that kind of dough.

Yup. There’s no real harm but it was a very early signal that Wolf may not be up to the task.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Looking back at the draft:

1. Maye, QB. So far, so good. Houston may be a top 2 team in the AFC and Maye did OK in his debut.
2. Polk, WR. So far, not so good. Reportedly they like him in the building, but he is not producing and has too many lapses. Kayshon Bouttee deservedly got more snaps today.
3. Wallace, T. Another not so good, though I'd grade him incomplete.
4. Robinson, G. Has been a horrendous passs blocker and gotten himself benched.
4. Baker, WR. Showed promise early in camp before stagnating. Has barely played.
6. Marcellas Dial, CB. Mostly just special teams so far.
6. Milton, QB. Project.
7.Bell, TE. Has barely played.

Not great so far. On the other hand, last year's draft is looking better.

1. Gonzalez, CB. Looks like a potential All-Pro in the making.
2. White, Edge. Same.
3. Mapu, S/LB. Finally back from an injury, making plays in a variety of roles, and wearing the green dot to boot. Mapu did nothing last year so him hitting the ground running now is a huge deal.
4. J Andrews, C. Incomplete, out injured.
4. Ryland, K. Gone
4. Sow, G. Injured and or ineffective this year, after a decent rookie year.
5. Mafi, G. Gone
6. Boutte, WR. Didn't play much or effectively last eyar but is showing some promise this year.
6. Baringer, P. Quite good, if only he could learn to drop it inside the 20.
6. Douglas, WR. Best WR on the team, both last year and this year.
6. Speed, CB. Gone
7. Bolden, CB. Special teams.

4 hits so far, with potential for 2-3 more. This draft looks better now than it did 1 year ago.

But 2022...

1. Strange, G. Overdrafted and has not lived up to being a first round pick, and has been injured. There is hope that he can still return and contribute, maybe at C.
2. Thornton, WR. Loking like an El Busto.
3. Marcus Jones, CB. Legit player. 3rd corner/KR, game breaking speed.
4. Jack Jones, CB. Gone
4. Strong, RB. Gone
4. Zappe, QB. Gone
6. Harris, RB. Practice squad. Team chose not to elevate him today.
6. Roberts, DT. Gone
6. Hines, G. Gone
7. Steuber, T. Gone

1 hit, maybe a second. Ugh.

 

[8slim]

Looking back at the draft:

1. Maye, QB. So far, so good. Houston may be a top 2 team in the AFC and Maye did OK in his debut.
2. Polk, WR. So far, not so good. Reportedly they like him in the building, but he is not producing and has too many lapses. Kayshon Bouttee deservedly got more snaps today.
3. Wallace, T. Another not so good, though I'd grade him incomplete.
4. Robinson, G. Has been a horrendous passs blocker and gotten himself benched.
4. Baker, WR. Showed promise early in camp before stagnating. Has barely played.
6. Marcellas Dial, CB. Mostly just special teams so far.
6. Milton, QB. Project.
7.Bell, TE. Has barely played.

Not great so far. On the other hand, last year's draft is looking better.

1. Gonzalez, CB. Looks like a potential All-Pro in the making.
2. White, Edge. Same.
3. Mapu, S/LB. Finally back from an injury, making plays in a variety of roles, and wearing the green dot to boot. Mapu did nothing last year so him hitting the ground running now is a huge deal.
4. J Andrews, C. Incomplete, out injured.
4. Ryland, K. Gone
4. Sow, G. Injured and or ineffective this year, after a decent rookie year.
5. Mafi, G. Gone
6. Boutte, WR. Didn't play much or effectively last eyar but is showing some promise this year.
6. Baringer, P. Quite good, if only he could learn to drop it inside the 20.
6. Douglas, WR. Best WR on the team, both last year and this year.
6. Speed, CB. Gone
7. Bolden, CB. Special teams.

4 hits so far, with potential for 2-3 more. This draft looks better now than it did 1 year ago.

But 2022...

1. Strange, G. Overdrafted and has not lived up to being a first round pick, and has been injured. There is hope that he can still return and contribute, maybe at C.
2. Thornton, WR. Loking like an El Busto.
3. Marcus Jones, CB. Legit player. 3rd corner/KR, game breaking speed.
4. Jack Jones, CB. Gone
4. Strong, RB. Gone
4. Zappe, QB. Gone
6. Harris, RB. Practice squad. Team chose not to elevate him today.
6. Roberts, DT. Gone
6. Hines, G. Gone
7. Steuber, T. Gone

1 hit, maybe a second. Ugh.

Good analysis. This supports my point about needing to lean on free agent signings along with drafts to “rebuild”. Best case scenario we may have 8-ish contributors in 3 years of drafts. Hopefully we improve the hit rate in the next few years, but we’re still going to need literally dozens of free agents to fill out a roster that’s potentially playoff caliber.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Looking back at the draft:

1. Maye, QB. So far, so good. Houston may be a top 2 team in the AFC and Maye did OK in his debut.
2. Polk, WR. So far, not so good. Reportedly they like him in the building, but he is not producing and has too many lapses. Kayshon Bouttee deservedly got more snaps today.
3. Wallace, T. Another not so good, though I'd grade him incomplete.
4. Robinson, G. Has been a horrendous passs blocker and gotten himself benched.
4. Baker, WR. Showed promise early in camp before stagnating. Has barely played.
6. Marcellas Dial, CB. Mostly just special teams so far.
6. Milton, QB. Project.
7.Bell, TE. Has barely played.

Not great so far. On the other hand, last year's draft is looking better.

1. Gonzalez, CB. Looks like a potential All-Pro in the making.
2. White, Edge. Same.
3. Mapu, S/LB. Finally back from an injury, making plays in a variety of roles, and wearing the green dot to boot. Mapu did nothing last year so him hitting the ground running now is a huge deal.
4. J Andrews, C. Incomplete, out injured.
4. Ryland, K. Gone
4. Sow, G. Injured and or ineffective this year, after a decent rookie year.
5. Mafi, G. Gone
6. Boutte, WR. Didn't play much or effectively last eyar but is showing some promise this year.
6. Baringer, P. Quite good, if only he could learn to drop it inside the 20.
6. Douglas, WR. Best WR on the team, both last year and this year.
6. Speed, CB. Gone
7. Bolden, CB. Special teams.

4 hits so far, with potential for 2-3 more. This draft looks better now than it did 1 year ago.

But 2022...

1. Strange, G. Overdrafted and has not lived up to being a first round pick, and has been injured. There is hope that he can still return and contribute, maybe at C.
2. Thornton, WR. Loking like an El Busto.
3. Marcus Jones, CB. Legit player. 3rd corner/KR, game breaking speed.
4. Jack Jones, CB. Gone
4. Strong, RB. Gone
4. Zappe, QB. Gone
6. Harris, RB. Practice squad. Team chose not to elevate him today.
6. Roberts, DT. Gone
6. Hines, G. Gone
7. Steuber, T. Gone

1 hit, maybe a second. Ugh.

Last year's draft is a good reminder of why you don't judge after half (or even a full) season... you don't expect much after the 3rd round anyway (maybe the 4th) but even in the 2nd and 3rd you usually aren't getting the full guy until year 2 or 3, it's why they go in the 2nd usually (Barmore was like that too).

 

[Justthetippett]

Looking back at the draft:

1. Maye, QB. So far, so good. Houston may be a top 2 team in the AFC and Maye did OK in his debut.
2. Polk, WR. So far, not so good. Reportedly they like him in the building, but he is not producing and has too many lapses. Kayshon Bouttee deservedly got more snaps today.
3. Wallace, T. Another not so good, though I'd grade him incomplete.
4. Robinson, G. Has been a horrendous passs blocker and gotten himself benched.
4. Baker, WR. Showed promise early in camp before stagnating. Has barely played.
6. Marcellas Dial, CB. Mostly just special teams so far.
6. Milton, QB. Project.
7.Bell, TE. Has barely played.

Not great so far. On the other hand, last year's draft is looking better.

1. Gonzalez, CB. Looks like a potential All-Pro in the making.
2. White, Edge. Same.
3. Mapu, S/LB. Finally back from an injury, making plays in a variety of roles, and wearing the green dot to boot. Mapu did nothing last year so him hitting the ground running now is a huge deal.
4. J Andrews, C. Incomplete, out injured.
4. Ryland, K. Gone
4. Sow, G. Injured and or ineffective this year, after a decent rookie year.
5. Mafi, G. Gone
6. Boutte, WR. Didn't play much or effectively last eyar but is showing some promise this year.
6. Baringer, P. Quite good, if only he could learn to drop it inside the 20.
6. Douglas, WR. Best WR on the team, both last year and this year.
6. Speed, CB. Gone
7. Bolden, CB. Special teams.

4 hits so far, with potential for 2-3 more. This draft looks better now than it did 1 year ago.

But 2022...

1. Strange, G. Overdrafted and has not lived up to being a first round pick, and has been injured. There is hope that he can still return and contribute, maybe at C.
2. Thornton, WR. Loking like an El Busto.
3. Marcus Jones, CB. Legit player. 3rd corner/KR, game breaking speed.
4. Jack Jones, CB. Gone
4. Strong, RB. Gone
4. Zappe, QB. Gone
6. Harris, RB. Practice squad. Team chose not to elevate him today.
6. Roberts, DT. Gone
6. Hines, G. Gone
7. Steuber, T. Gone

1 hit, maybe a second. Ugh.

I'm convinced there's a kind of compounding effect to drafting. If you get a major hit at a premium position, lesser guys can step in and succeed because the gravity of the game is pulled over to the star player. Watching the Bengals right now and Higgins comes to mind. Think how much easier it is for Karloftis playing with Jones in KC. What's going to be key for this team in at least the next year or two is nailing the high R1 and R2 picks. If you pick that high you have to hit. Get a star LT and the whole line is improved markedly. Get a true WR1 and Douglas/Boutte/Polk are properly slotted and so on. You end up with more hits because guys are asked to do what they are capable of based on their talent.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

I'm convinced there's a kind of compounding effect to drafting. If you get a major hit at a premium position, lesser guys can step in and succeed because the gravity of the game is pulled over to the star player.

The opposite of this is what is happening to our OL right now. Andrews and Onwenu were supposed to be the anchors of this unit, and neither has lived up to that for different reasons, which has exposed all of the others.

 

[Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache]

I don’t know how you can have 15 players as average or better when the team is nowhere near average.

Agree. The original list is too generous (but a good convo starter, so thanks!).

YW

The answer I'd give to @IdiotKicker's question is that when you look at the rosters of the best teams in the league they often have somewhere in the neighborhood of half a dozen All Pros. We have none. The best players on our team would probably be something like the 6th-10th best players on the league's best teams.

Combine that with...

Plus, the position has little value

...our most talented players are often at lower-value positions, like P, RB and S. We've gotten close to league-worst play from two critical positions: QB and offensive line. You can be above-average in a lot of other places that ain't winning games.

There are 22 offensive and defensive starters. If you have no All Pros, somewhere in the low teens are above-average, and the rest are JAGs or shouldn't be on the field, you get beat down the way we have.

Today we gave ~60 snaps against one of the best teams in the league to a RT who wasn't good enough to make any NFL team's opening day roster, and we played our only remaining uninjured G at LT. You can be above-average in bunch of places and that's still getting whooped. Teams like the Texans are ripping us apart in the passing game in part because they know our LBs can't cover, and White's more or less the only pressure threat. The talent distribution I put into that table is the talent distribution of a bad team.

If Lowe and Jordan are in the neighborhood of average starters, then what does below average look like? Because to my untrained eye, those guys really suck.

FWIW, before today Jordan has dropped into pass pro on 127 passing snaps this year. He's allowed pressure on only 5 of them. That ratio puts him in the top 10 of all guards in the NFL.

You might be confusing Jordan with someone else.

EDIT: like Layden Robinson, who was really bad on the right side the first several games before getting benched

 

[j-man]

we wont know about NE utill 2026 if maye hits u will be fine if not see denver 2017- present

 

[NextBigThing8184]

Take this at a stab of conversation starter about who's a keeper, who's replaceable, and how big different holes are

Tier	Offense	Defense	Special Teams
1. Clear All Pro	-	-	-
2. Above-average-starter-to-arguable-All Pro	RB: Rham	DL: Keion White DB: Christian Gonzalez	P: Baringer
3. Average-to-above-average starter	RB: Antonio Gibson, WR: Pop Douglas, Boutte TE: Hunter Henry T: Lowe G: Michael Jordan, Onwenu	DL: Godchaux, Afernee Jennings DB: Dugger, Marte Mapu, Marcus Jones, Jonathan Jones	K: Slye ST: Brendan Schooler
4. Below-average-starter-to-bench	WR: Polk, Osborn TE: Hooper G: Nick Leverett, Zach Thomas	DL: Daniel Ekuale LB: Raekwon McMillian, Jahlani Tavai
5. Not currently an NFL player	T: 'Trey Jacobs G: Layden Robinson
TBD: Injured / unknown	QB: Maye C: Dave Andrews, Ben Brown T: Caedan Wallace G: Cole Strange, Sow	DL: Christian Barmore, Jaquelin Roy LB: Ja'Whaun Bentley DB: Peppers

I'm cheating a bit and putting Maye in my 'tbd' category only 'cause I'm not sure where in the top 3 tiers I'd put him after one game. He's definitely not a bench QB.

The guys I'm going to watching going forward for signs of more potential feel-good-player-development news: Boutte, Michael Jordan, Ben Brown, Mapu, and Jaquelin Roy. All of those names are in 'who dat?' territory for most people who follow football. But they all got playing time today and made some good plays.

As you tell from the way I filled this out I think one of the big problems for our defense is that our LBs are giving us very little, and the other two units aren't strong enough to cover for this. And the larger problem for this team is how few names there are in those top two tiers.

Anyway, have at it, Stuck

What’s the logic behind which guys you listed and which guys you omitted?

 

[Justthetippett]

The opposite of this is what is happening to our OL right now. Andrews and Onwenu were supposed to be the anchors of this unit, and neither has lived up to that for different reasons, which has exposed all of the others.

Yeah if you never hit you're the Browns/Jets/Lions(pre-2022 edition). If Maye can make this line look good he deserves a statue.

 

[Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache]

What’s the logic behind which guys you listed and which guys you omitted?

There isn't much

I included guys that I feel like I've seen enough to have a point of view about. And I probably left some off just because I forgot about them when I mocked that up.

Who's left off that you noticed and where would you put 'em?

 

[NextBigThing8184]

I don’t know how you can have 15 players as average or better when the team is nowhere near average. I think this team has maybe four non-ST players who are average or better - Gonzo, Henry, Rham, Pop. None other than Gonzo should be anywhere near a Pro Bowl.

The bad players really drag down the average players and there aren’t enough good players.

Guys like J.Jones, Wise, Jennings, Bourne (maybe) , Onwenu (even with his underperformance), Godchaux etc all clearly belong in the league and are at least average players who could hold similar roles on the majority of teams elsewhere in the league. Problem is, trash/backup quality guys like Pharms, Hawkins, Lowe, McMillian etc make those units look bad (or terrible).

 

[NextBigThing8184]

There isn't much

I included guys that I feel like I've seen enough to have a point of view about. Who's left off that you noticed and where would you put 'em?

Wise, Elliss, Pharms, Austin, Wilson, Hawkins, Uche among others on defense

Wise is average, the rest are between below average or don’t belong in the league

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

While White has flashed some, I don’t believe he is anywhere near Gonzalez. White routinely cannot keep the edge and loses contain. He’s decent but I just don’t see him more than average player at this point. What am I missing?

 

[Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache]

Wise, Elliss, Pharms, Austin, Wilson, Hawkins, Uche among others on defense

Wise is average, the rest are between below average or don’t belong in the league

Yeah, that feels right

If this next draft ends up not being the year to take a tackle early, I could really go for a dominant DT or DE in the first round

 

[NextBigThing8184]

While White has flashed some, I don’t believe he is anywhere near Gonzalez. White routinely cannot keep the edge and loses contain. He’s decent but I just don’t see him more than average player at this point. What am I missing?

People seen him flash in the pass game and ignore the stuff he fails at (which is harder to notice on the broadcast). Kind of like Uche though he’s a bit better

 

[Eddie Jurak]

People seen him flash in the pass game and ignore the stuff he fails at (which is harder to notice on the broadcast). Kind of like Uche though he’s a bit better

He's a second year player with obvious talent who has work to do. I think it is too early to jump to the conclusion that he can't learn.

 

[BaseballJones]

WRT the WR group... I have felt for years that they have more talent at WR than it appears. The last few years they've had incompetent QB play and bad OL play (which doesn't help the already incompetent QB play), and I've felt that if these WRs played with even Matthew Stafford level QBs, we'd think it's a legit pretty solid WR group.

The OL still stinks, but we saw yesterday hints of what could be with decent QB play.

 

[IdiotKicker]

The bad players really drag down the average players and there aren’t enough good players.

Guys like J.Jones, Wise, Jennings, Bourne (maybe) , Onwenu (even with his underperformance), Godchaux etc all clearly belong in the league and are at least average players who could hold similar roles on the majority of teams elsewhere in the league. Problem is, trash/backup quality guys like Pharms, Hawkins, Lowe, McMillian etc make those units look bad (or terrible).

J. Jones might be the only guy on there that I would throw into the average pool at this time. The rest all have questions about recent play or are adequate in a rotation package but probably shouldn't be seeing the time they're seeing.

 

[RSN Diaspora]

Demontrey Jacobs, while undrafted waiver wire refuse, was uniquely bad yesterday. I realize we've had a different OL in every game this season, but I would not have let Drake Maye start if he was left-handed with that turnstile at right tackle.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Where the Patriots are at, I am looking at their roster strictly from a building block standpoint. Here's my list

Tier 1--Building Blocks
--Drake Maye
--Christian Gonzalez
--Christian Barmore

Tier 2--Solid Role Players Under Longer-Term Contracts
--Keion White
--Mike Onwenu
--Kyle Dugger
--DeMario Douglas
--Brendan Schooler
--Hunter Henry
--Jahlani Tavai

That's it. That's your list to build around right now. The rest of the roster is filled with younger players who haven't proved much yet, older veteran players who won't be around for the next good team, or below average to below replacement level talent.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Where the Patriots are at, I am looking at their roster strictly from a building block standpoint. Here's my list

Tier 1--Building Blocks
--Drake Maye
--Christian Gonzalez
--Christian Barmore

Tier 2--Solid Role Players Under Longer-Term Contracts
--Keion White
--Mike Onwenu
--Kyle Dugger
--DeMario Douglas
--Brendan Schooler
--Hunter Henry
--Jahlani Tavai

That's it. That's your list to build around right now. The rest of the roster is filled with younger players who haven't proved much yet, older veteran players who won't be around for the next good team, or below average to below replacement level talent.

I would probably add Rham, Baringer, and Bourne to that second list but, yeah, its pretty thin.

 

[mwonow]

Yeah, I was just about to make a case for Baringer, and Bourne makes sense too. I'm starting to see Rham/contract as being on the other side of the ledger.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

I would probably add Rham, Baringer, and Bourne to that second list but, yeah, its pretty thin.

If he continues to play well, Mapu also.

 

[Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache]

Where the Patriots are at, I am looking at their roster strictly from a building block standpoint. Here's my list

I like the way you lay it out

I might not have include Tavai in the second group, who to my eye (and I could be wrong, what do I know?) has been pretty weak against both the run and the pass. But that's a pretty small disagreement.

I think it's also worth considering adding a third tier/group to your two... call 'em "the guys you get for free who turn out to be decent starters and save you from having to spend a draft pick or real free agent money on someone else"

Michael Jordan might end up in this group, since we signed him for less than $1M and he seems to be turning into a solid LG. Now, LG isn't the most sexy position on the field. But you gotta have one. And if Jordan checks the box we can use other assets to address other positions.

You can look at Ben Brown at C the same way. If he turns into a competent David Andrews replacement we got one less problem to solve for. Other guys we got cheap: Kayshon Boutte, Roy on the DLine.

I'm not sure I'd say I'm "optimistic" about any of 'em, but I'm gonna keep watching to see what they do.

Hitting on a handful of players like that puts less pressure on our drafting/free agent signings to lift all the weight

 

[cshea]

Boutte has been an interesting development. He was an bubble guy throughout camp, then essentially inactive for the first 2 games (technically active for the first game but he didn’t get a single snap) but over the past 4 weeks he has vaulted up the depth chart. Yesterday he played 83% of the offensive snaps, most of any skill player. Hasn’t done a ton receiving, only 7 catches on 8 targets but they appear to really like his blocking. Obviously flashed on the bomb from Maye yesterday.

 

[RSN Diaspora]

Forgot to note this in my first reply, but @Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache clearly put some work into the opening post. Well done.

If we agree that Keion White is punching above his weight class and the Pats are going nowhere this year, is there an opportunity to fleece Detroit in a trade now that Aidan Hutchinson is likely gone for the year? We'd have to get a king's ransom to move a rare bright spot on the roster that also happens to be a rookie deal, but if there was ever a time for Detroit to go for broke, this would seem like the year.

 

[RedOctober3829]

I would probably add Rham, Baringer, and Bourne to that second list but, yeah, its pretty thin.

When you need to make a case for a punter to join the building blocks, you don't really have many. Stevenson I should have included, but RB's are fungible and they should be looking to at least pair him with a Jahmyr Gibbs-type next year.

 

[Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache]

Forgot to note this in my first reply, but @Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache clearly put some work into the opening post. Well done.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Forgot to note this in my first reply, but @Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache clearly put some work into the opening post. Well done.

If we agree that Keion White is punching above his weight class and the Pats are going nowhere this year, is there an opportunity to fleece Detroit in a trade now that Aidan Hutchinson is likely gone for the year? We'd have to get a king's ransom to move a rare bright spot on the roster that also happens to be a rookie deal, but if there was ever a time for Detroit to go for broke, this would seem like the year.

I like the way you think here. White is an older player for his service time in the league and can obviously get to the QB which is what Detroit needs right now. If I could get a 3rd round pick for Keion White, is that enough value to make me want to move him? I don't know that I'd do it, but it's something to think about. On one hand this team has so many holes that voluntarily opening another one up is not ideal, but if the value is there......

 

[BaseballJones]

I like the way you think here. White is an older player for his service time in the league and can obviously get to the QB which is what Detroit needs right now. If I could get a 3rd round pick for Keion White, is that enough value to make me want to move him? I don't know that I'd do it, but it's something to think about. On one hand this team has so many holes that voluntarily opening another one up is not ideal, but if the value is there......

Why would they trade White for a 3rd round pick? He was a 2nd round draft pick and is a good player. Limited, but good. And they're paying him peanuts, and he's just in his second year. Why would a team needing good young talent trade a guy away for a worse draft pick than what they used on him in the first place? Is the idea that by the time the Pats are good either White will be gone anyway or will be on his second (and much more expensive) contract?

 

[RSN Diaspora]

If I could get a 3rd round pick for Keion White, is that enough value to make me want to move him? I don't know that I'd do it, but it's something to think about.

It's moot because Detroit doesn't have a third round pick in the upcoming draft, but in a better draft class than 2025 projects to be, it might be enough. As 2025 looks right now? Probably not. In my view, it'd have to be a second-rounder and something else to merit moving White unless Detroit is so desperate that they'd trade away a first (which I doubt).

 

[RedOctober3829]

Why would they trade White for a 3rd round pick? He was a 2nd round draft pick and is a good player. Limited, but good. And they're paying him peanuts, and he's just in his second year. Why would a team needing good young talent trade a guy away for a worse draft pick than what they used on him in the first place? Is the idea that by the time the Pats are good either White will be gone anyway or will be on his second (and much more expensive) contract?

The first part of your post is why I'd pause and think real hard before trading him. I'm of the belief that they need to stockpile as many picks as possible. To me, White is a player who has shown that he can be a good player in this league, but also has looked lost in the run game and has made some pretty bad mistakes. He's also already 25 years old and a bigger 2nd contract at 28 is an iffy proposition for me. I should have said that a 2nd rounder would get me to really consider it.

If it's not White, these guys should be selling any and every pending UFA at the deadline they can to get more picks.