Sons of Peter McNeeley- Boxing Thread
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Wait a second, didn't Manny just fight Bradley? Are you telling me there was no drug test for that fight? Did the rules change?
Oh yeah, that's right. Floyd wants new rules in place to fight Manny. When it walks like a duck...
And just to be clear, I'm playing a bit of a devil's advocate here. I have a problem with Manny not willing to acquiesce to the drug testing that Floyd wants. If you got nothing to hide and you want the fight, why not? However, the bottom line is that the fight could be made if Floyd will just fight Manny under the same rules that everyone else uses for every fight, including both of them, and as far as this discussion goes, none of that changes the fact that "matchmaking" is not the reason that Manny is a first ballot HOF'er.
Oh yeah, that's right. Floyd wants new rules in place to fight Manny. When it walks like a duck...
And just to be clear, I'm playing a bit of a devil's advocate here. I have a problem with Manny not willing to acquiesce to the drug testing that Floyd wants. If you got nothing to hide and you want the fight, why not? However, the bottom line is that the fight could be made if Floyd will just fight Manny under the same rules that everyone else uses for every fight, including both of them, and as far as this discussion goes, none of that changes the fact that "matchmaking" is not the reason that Manny is a first ballot HOF'er.
Manny is on record as saying he will take any drug test for a potential Mayweather fight. He also has never failed a drug test and said he would take less money than Floyd to make the fight happen.
PBF, on the other hand, continues to move the goalposts and make excuses.
I actually don't care anymore, because I don't think Floyd would give him much of a fight.
PBF, on the other hand, continues to move the goalposts and make excuses.
I actually don't care anymore, because I don't think Floyd would give him much of a fight.
I was referencing his fear of needles leading to the cancellation of a fight.
And I never implied it changes anything but it puts a dent into the argument of Pacquiao as some sort of urban legend that will fight anyone anywhere that we were leading down.
And I never implied it changes anything but it puts a dent into the argument of Pacquiao as some sort of urban legend that will fight anyone anywhere that we were leading down.
Regarding the Mayweather ducking point, I found this to be a relatively even-handed article, http://www.theguardian.com/sport/slip-the-jab/2014/mar/03/floyd-mayweather-boxing-great-ducking-fights. Probably a slight Mayweather bias but not egregiously so.
kenneycb said:
Make a stronger case that Manny's record of fighting anyone is an "urban legend" -- besides the single point you raised.
kenneycb said:
Thanks for the article. Besides the surprisingly small effort the author puts forth in defending PBF in the "big one" (vs. Manny), the overall article actually seems to say Mayweather can be called a ducker, just not as bad of a one as his critics say he is.
But to get back on the point, many posters here were pointing out the absurdity of painting Pacman's career as one made by "favorable matchmaking" -- whether PBF ducked one or a dozen, ElUno's post still deserves full ridicule.
By urban legend I meant tall tale because I'm an idiot that sucks at turns of phrases. But still, there was one fight, one very big fight, where both fighters essentially ducked each other. Though I find people in the Pacquiao camp fail to acknowledge any wrongdoing on his end since Mayweather has basically pitted himself as a WWE heel at this point and takes all the heat (something I think is mainly an act that sells PPVs despite the fact Mayweather is a very boring fighter to the casual fan).SeoulSoxFan said:
Except if it involves needles 30 days before the fight. But he makes an exception for Ricky Hatton.Sille Skrub said:
The clear Manny nutriding in this thread by some of you is way is too much for me. I'll just concede, I frequent enough boxing forums to know Manny's fans. It's pointless. He's the best, the greatest, he would have knocked out Ali. You win. I can't argue with people who think, for one example, the zombie Shane he fought was a good win.
For anyone else in the thread who watches the sport , do any of you feel Hopkins can beat Stevenson? Given his performance Saturday , I'm starting to think he has just enough left
For anyone else in the thread who watches the sport , do any of you feel Hopkins can beat Stevenson? Given his performance Saturday , I'm starting to think he has just enough left
I was unimpressed the last time I saw Stevenson, which was on that card with Kovalev. The time before, though, he looked unstoppable (against Dawson) I think. I'll never bet against Bernard, but the better fight would be Kovalev-Stevenson.
An old ass Shane? Who Floyd fought and almost kissed the canvas against. Clottey and Margarito were legit fighters when Manny beat him. A completely shot Cotto? Who Floyd fought THREE years later, and had to work for a decision (Manny stopped him).ElUno20 said:
Floyd's schedule the last 8 years has been barely more taxing than Gary Russell Jr's schedule.
Does it get old having your nose so far up Floyd's ass that you can smell his food before he eats it?
Marciano490 said:
I don't think Manny is any slower. I do agree that he's tentative. Running into a sick knockout has definitely made him be more careful out there.
I always think that had they fought 10 times in their prime, Floyd wins 8, mainly by KO by Manny running into a punch, and Manny takes a couple decisions based on his aggression. They're both great fighters. I've had the privilege to see them both live (Manny-Bradley I and Floyd-Guerrero, and I'll be going to see Floyd against Maidana as well). I do think if Floyd thought the fight was as easy as some do, he would have fought Pacquaio years ago. By continuing to move the goal posts on a Pac-Floyd fight, it shows he still has some worries. He literally hasn't fought ANYONE dangerous to him record over the past 8-10 years.
ElUno, that was an impressive bit of strawman bullshit in your post. I'm not even a Manny fan, so why don't you address my pointt? Who do you think Manny should have fought that he didn't? I agree with you that a lot of the fights he's had in the last 5-10 years haven't been all that great, but aside from Floyd, who else was there to fight that he wasn't willing to go into the ring with? The guy fought basically everyone in a half dozen different weight classes. Like I said before, your argument isn't with Manny, it's with the state of boxing and the people fighting now. Manny can't fight someone that doesn't exist. Maybe you can create a strawman for him to fight too?
Deathofthebambino said:
In other words, ElUno:
You see fella, you've shifted the goalpost from Manny career being built on "favorable matchmaking" to "his fights after Diaz has been garbage". See where I'm gettin' at?
Didn't realize Mayweather/Maidana is on the 3rd. Maidana by ko is plus 850. Might put 50 bucks on that.
I haven't watched it yet, but today's Klitschko title defense was televised live at 5:00 on ESPN. Sorry I didn't get a chance to post about it earlier, and I'm not sure if it's being shown later, but I found it interesting that it was on for free and live. Please use a spoiler tag if you saw it and don't mind. I'm going to watch in a couple of hours, but figured I'd let people know in case it's on again later.
Anyone getting the Jon Jones PPV tonight? I'm curious about pulling the trigger, and even more curious to find out if Texeira has a shot to beat him. Odds right now are +325 on Texeira, which is pretty darn appealing.
Anyone getting the Jon Jones PPV tonight? I'm curious about pulling the trigger, and even more curious to find out if Texeira has a shot to beat him. Odds right now are +325 on Texeira, which is pretty darn appealing.
Deathofthebambino said:
It was really interesting that it was live and free. It definitely took me back to when I was a kid. I used to love watching boxing with my dad - Ali, Frazier, Foreman (version 1.0), Norton, Holmes, Shavers, and all those guys. I had to explain to my wife that Klitschko was the heavyweight champion of the world, that title fights used to be on live TV all the time, but that they almost never are anymore. I have never bought a PPV myself (have attended a few viewings) and I don't really follow boxing anymore. But it was cool to see, and it definitely took me back. Boxing isn't what it used to be in the public mind, but you can't beat the atmosphere of a title fight - especially heavyweights.
I agree. I watched it, and while it wasn't the most entertaining fight, it was pretty cool to be able to watch it live and for free. Frankly, I can't remember the last time I watched a heavyweight title fight. Kitschko has been so fucking dominant for so long that it's rendered the entire division pretty much irrelevant. If he weren't Ukrainian and/or didn't fight constantly in Germany/Poland/Russia/Ukraine at weird hours, I wonder where people would view him in the history of the sport. Based on what I saw the other night, I can't see anyone beating him any time soon. His reach is unbelievable, and his right hand is like a hammer. He just used the left jab so effectively. Granted, he had 6 inches on the guy he was fighting, but the guy literally couldn't do anything. Couldn't even get close enough to him to consider doing anything. It was a clinic.
Unlike you, I do get a lot of PPV fights, and still watch a ton of live boxing and taped boxing, with the exception of Manny and Floyd, who I've boycotted until they make a fight against each other. I still get jaded and depressed at times by questionable decisions, and I hate the politics of the sport, but inside the ring is some of the greatest sports ever, and always will be. I'm not old enough for the days of Ali, Frazier, etc., but I grew up watching Hagler, Hearns, Spinks, Leonard, Duran,Tyson, etc. with my dad, and I miss those days as well.
Unlike you, I do get a lot of PPV fights, and still watch a ton of live boxing and taped boxing, with the exception of Manny and Floyd, who I've boycotted until they make a fight against each other. I still get jaded and depressed at times by questionable decisions, and I hate the politics of the sport, but inside the ring is some of the greatest sports ever, and always will be. I'm not old enough for the days of Ali, Frazier, etc., but I grew up watching Hagler, Hearns, Spinks, Leonard, Duran,Tyson, etc. with my dad, and I miss those days as well.
I'm putting $50 on Maidana to knock out Floyd at +850. Don't think it'll happen, but Floyd gets hit flush once or twice a fight now, and Maidana has ambien in his gloves.
Not true.kenneycb said:
Guys, El Uno is not even worth addressing when it comes to Pacquiao. He hates Pac more than cancer.
Actually no, buddy. I have no problem with pac. He's an all timer. I have a problem with the fans he's brought into the sport and the amount of praise he's gotten. Similar to floyd, he's an all time great fighter, who has milked the public of ppv money the last 5-6 years with some shit opponents. That's my problem. When someone who thinks Pacquiao invented boxing is trying to tell me clottey, shane, rios, etc were "great" wins. Gtfoh. Then those same people get on floyd for his crap fights like baldomir, Guerrero, etc. It's a ridiculous double standard to anyone who follows the sport religiously.
Bob arum and Floyd are one in the same. Rape the public for money with mostly bullshit fights. It's not that hard to comprehend.
Bob arum and Floyd are one in the same. Rape the public for money with mostly bullshit fights. It's not that hard to comprehend.
It's not a bad bet. All reports over the last month have been that Chino has had the best camp of his life.Marciano490 said:
Floyd will have the size and speed advantage but for 50 bucks it's worth it. Chino is a uniquely skilled side of the head and rabbit puncher. I'm pretty sure that's one of the focuses.
I haven't seen the Collazo khan odds. But it might be worth it to throw some money on Collazo
ElUno20 said:
I'm asking in all honesty - who would you have had Pacquiao fight over that time period that he didn't? This isn't Dempsey ducking Wills. What fight was out there that wasn't made?
Yet you are? Come on, your pro-Pacquiao bias in this thread is bordering on the absurd.Sille Skrub said:
Don't wan to speak too much for El Uno but I don't think he's talking about the Pacquiao ducking anyone or anything, just saying that the caliber of his opponents weren't that great, which is more of a sign of the relative talent level of the current generation.Marciano490 said:
First if all, go ahead and quote Skrub posts that you feel are "bordering on the absurd."kenneycb said:
Second, go back and read what EU has been saying about Pacman before he 1) moved the goalposts about 50 yards and 2) erected a straw man worthy of an Oscar after catching a ton of heat (not just from Manny fans like me, but from respected and esteemed posters on this thread.)
In other words, what you are saying about what EU said isn't even close to what EU actually said.
Just from the last two pages. I'm too lazy to go back any further but I recall there being more examples. Maybe pro-Pacquiao is the wrong phrasing given these quotes but anti-Mayweather is fair and I think they go hand in hand in this case. I don't care enough about the second point and will concede it as just reading it in a vaccuum.
Sille Skrub said:
Sille Skrub said:
Sille Skrub said:
kenneycb said:
Perhaps, but I don't see why he'd be so vitriolic toward a fighter who fought everyone out there and cleaned them all out. It's one thing to get on a guy for ducking, another to look at a guy like Klitschko and realize he was just born to an era where nobody could challenge him.
And, really, it's a tired argument. There have been very few generations and divisions in boxing in the last 30 years that were "stacked." Either you get Guy A v. Guy A1 (Pac v. JMM) 4-5 times, or you have, at most, 2-3 megafights over the course of a career and realize the rest are going to be against a tier below.
Kenney, ElUno isn't doing anything but constantly coming in the thread to mock the "fans" of Pac. He started with the nonsense about how Pac's career was basically made by effective "matchmaking," and he was called out on it. He then shifted that argument to an argument against the fans of Manny propping him up. I'm a fan of boxing, not so much of individual boxers, so I don't really have a dog in the Manny/Pac argument (I've boycotted both of them), but he's done nothing in this thread but provoke the Manny fans at every turn. It's ridiculous. And when he is questioned repeatedly on his positions, he turns tail and hides and then comes back a week or so later poking the nest again with his bullshit. It's tiresome. Manny took on and beat all comers, and like I said repeatedly and you just alluded to, there were plenty of duds in there, because well, there are plenty of duds in boxing. The argument that he didn't fight anyone is even more idiotic when you consider the guy continuously went up in weight classes over and over and over and over and over (I don't think I even put enough overs there to reach the number of weight classes) again and beat the champs at almost every level. If Kenney wants to have a real discussion, and not just hear himself rant about Manny's fans, there is a discussion to be had, but it's becoming more and more clear that he either can't have a real discussion and back up his arguments or he doesn't want to and thus, he deserves to be mocked for his position.
I conceded the point guys. Calm down.
Not sure what the point about the real discussion is unless you mean ElUno. Bonus points for spelling my name right though. That is always legitimately appreciated.
Not sure what the point about the real discussion is unless you mean ElUno. Bonus points for spelling my name right though. That is always legitimately appreciated.
ElUno20 said:
Talk about HoF, I think your posts deserve to be in the Straw Men Argument portion of SoSH HoF if there is one.
Whether PBF is going on a money grabbing tour isn't the crux of the "argument" here. For the 20th time, It's whether Manny's entire career was built on "favorable matchmaking" as you had put it - which you still have ducked (see what I did there?) from patching up the holes in that theory.
I say less popular American fighters like PBF ducks marquee matchups, more chance those fights will be on national -- and free -- TV. So, basically PBF is stealing money out of your pocket EU!
No more -- Floyd beating Maidana to the punch now. 4-3 Mayweather.
Maidana is really a simple fighter. It was only a matter of time until PBF found weaknesses to explore.
Maidana is really a simple fighter. It was only a matter of time until PBF found weaknesses to explore.
7-5 for PBF, at the least. Would not be surprised to see it 9-3 on some cards.
...and a majority decision for PBF with a lone draw. PBF fought his usual smart and strategic bout, while Maidana simply tired out and got pot-shot often enough to lose containment over the last few rounds.
Give him credit where he's due. PBF says "if fans want to see it again, we'll do it again". Maidana says "PBF didn't fight like man" but in all honesty he didn't hurt the champ at any point during the fight.
And no, we don't want to see this matchup again. And God forbid if we see PBF vs. Khan -- that'd be a blowout of epic proportions.
...and a majority decision for PBF with a lone draw. PBF fought his usual smart and strategic bout, while Maidana simply tired out and got pot-shot often enough to lose containment over the last few rounds.
Give him credit where he's due. PBF says "if fans want to see it again, we'll do it again". Maidana says "PBF didn't fight like man" but in all honesty he didn't hurt the champ at any point during the fight.
And no, we don't want to see this matchup again. And God forbid if we see PBF vs. Khan -- that'd be a blowout of epic proportions.
Andreas Hale @AndreasHale 12m
word is that there was gunfire in the casino
https://twitter.com/AndreasHale
word is that there was gunfire in the casino
https://twitter.com/AndreasHale
soxhop411 said:
https://twitter.com/AndreasHale/status/462830795628232704"]12m
mabrowndog is a dingus[/url]
word is that there was gunfire in the casino
https://twitter.com/AndreasHale
One can only hope Someone pulled a 2pac on Beiber
The announcer/interviewer is such a dickhead, first he says there is no obvious fight out there for Mayweather (umm, Manny?), and then when he interviews Maidana, he tries to gin up Maidana's answer by selectively taking what the interpreter said by saying Floyd didn't fight like a man, when what he really said was Floyd didn't fight like the man he was expecting or something like that.