Sons of Peter McNeeley- Boxing Thread

[ElUno20]

7-5 for PBF, at the least. Would not be surprised to see it 9-3 on some cards. 
 
...and a majority decision for PBF with a lone draw. PBF fought his usual smart and strategic bout, while Maidana simply tired out and got pot-shot often enough to lose containment over the last few rounds. 
 
Give him credit where he's due. PBF says "if fans want to see it again, we'll do it again". Maidana says "PBF didn't fight like man" but in all honesty he didn't hurt the champ at any point during the fight. 
 
And no, we don't want to see this matchup again. And God forbid if we see PBF vs. Khan -- that'd be a blowout of epic proportions.

Sums it up perfectly. Maidana landed some of his usual thudding rabbit punches and side of head shots but he isn't big enough to hurt floyd. Floyd looked looked a bit disinterested at times and with all respect in the world to maidana for a great effort, floyd invited a lot of that in by being very lazy and falling back all night. I don't need to see this again.

I will disagree with you on the khan fight being a blow out though. He looks like like a solid welterweight, 140 was clearly killing him, and he's athletic. I always believed the guys who have the best chance to beat floyd aren't tacticians (Marquez) because he's the smartest of most fighters save for bhop or the bullrushers (cotto or Marcos) because he's tough as hell and has a world class chin. It's the athletes, Bradley, Manny, Thurman, etc. Judah may be a bad example but he did well in spots , he was just too small and dumb to compete down the stretch.

As for the maidana quote, I know somethings get lost in translation but on first listen I'm pretty sure he did say floyd didn't fight him like a man. Which is ridiculous when a guy invites you in all night to trade on the ropes.

Ugly fight but it helps floyd in the long run, the public can't deal with anymore blowouts. it's just bad for business especially if you're a defensive fighter with no power.

Also, broner has no power above 135 and it's not aided by his pot shotting and refusal to sit down on his punches. His future is shaky because guys at 140 can hit.

This post took entirely to long to write. The keyboard on the galaxy is horrible.

 

[Marciano490]

Good post though. I haven't seen the fight yet - long story - but agree regarding the larger points though I think you need a hybrid to bear Floyd. He'll always out-athlete an athlete; you need a guy with athleticism plus something, whether it's power, balls or tactical skills.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

Sums it up perfectly. Maidana landed some of his usual thudding rabbit punches and side of head shots but he isn't big enough to hurt floyd. Floyd looked looked a bit disinterested at times and with all respect in the world to maidana for a great effort, floyd invited a lot of that in by being very lazy and falling back all night. I don't need to see this again.

I will disagree with you on the khan fight being a blow out though. He looks like like a solid welterweight, 140 was clearly killing him, and he's athletic. I always believed the guys who have the best chance to beat floyd aren't tacticians (Marquez) because he's the smartest of most fighters save for bhop or the bullrushers (cotto or Marcos) because he's tough as hell and has a world class chin. It's the athletes, Bradley, Manny, Thurman, etc. Judah may be a bad example but he did well in spots , he was just too small and dumb to compete down the stretch.

As for the maidana quote, I know somethings get lost in translation but on first listen I'm pretty sure he did say floyd didn't fight him like a man. Which is ridiculous when a guy invites you in all night to trade on the ropes.

 
I always thought a fighter who could beat PBF was someone who could beat him to the punch. Where it's by pure reflexes, tactics, or athleticism, that's one huge advantage that he had vs. practically anyone and if that could be negated all bets are off.
 
And that's why I gave (past tense) Manny a good chance to be that guy. He could match him with speed (offensively, anyway), better power, and with the unorthodox angles. When he learned how to use both hands (vs. Hatton) and took less chances coming in open (1st Bradley fight), that's when I thought it could be 50;50 or just a slight advantage to Pacman in an actual matchup. 
 
Frankly, I laugh at the few articles that are touting a Maidana rematch (he did say PBF didn't fight like a man, although the translation could be worse than the native quote). I think it'll be an ever more of a rout, and possibly a very boring fight or a mid-late round stoppage. 
 
Khan never had the heart and he won't against PBF. I think he'll absolutely get pummeled and "beaten to the punch" by a good 5-1 margin. 
 
BTW, WTF Broner?

 

[Deathofthebambino]

It's nice to see ESPN get back into the boxing game, showing another live heavyweight fight between Stiverne and Arreola.  Stiverne knocked him out in the 6th to win the vacant heavyweight title in the WBC.  That said, if they don't get rid of fucking Teddy Atlas doing the commentary, I might not be able to watch it anymore.  It takes him forever to spit out words, and he's just fucking terrible.  Constantly repeating himself, constantly telling stories and going off on tangents.  He completely misses huge moments in the action because he's too busy trying to get out some stupid fucking story about some fighter nobody has heard of from 1984.  I can't remember being driven as crazy by a commentator as him.  He's awful.
 
And does anyone know why this title was vacant?  It was most recently held by Klitschko, so why doesn't he hold it anymore?

 

[Infield Infidel]

Vitali had the belt, and vacated it to lead the UDAR party in Ukraine. He was going to run for president but withdrew to support another candidate

 

[Marciano490]

http://gawker.com/watch-an-undefeated-heavyweight-champ-fight-a-loudmouth-1575933459

Awesome.

 

[ElUno20]

Marquez is on some excellent juice. Whatever hes taken since before the manny knockout is unreal. Last night he looked like 20 years younger against Alvarado. What a performance.

 

[ElUno20]

Also, if you guys havent seen it, the Sergio Cotto face off was vicious. I didnt think I could be more excited for the fight. The translation lost a bit of the bite but man, sergio cut like a knife in those 10 minutes

 

[Marciano490]

I'll check out the face-off. I saw some of the preview but not the whole thing. I wish Cotto wasn't so passive. He might've been a Hall of Famer with a little more oomph.

Agreed Marquez looked great.

 

[eddiew112]

Anyone here planning on going to the Cotto-Martinez fight?

 

[Marciano490]

Me.

 

[seageral]

I'm hoping to go.

 

[ElUno20]

You lucky bastards. That will be one of the best atmospheres for a fight in a while.

After watching adonis last night, there is definitely a path for Hopkins to beat him. It will be difficult but its not impossible

 

[The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa]

Kiev Mayor Vitali Klitschko...

 

[ElUno20]

ok. There is a new greatest face off ever. Move over Hopkins-Pascal. We now have Froch-Groves.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNxhpXB7bhU
 
 
I love Groves.

 

[Marciano490]

Froch-Groves on HBO now.

 

[Marciano490]

The 3-2 was one of my favorite combos to throw. Night night George.

 

[ElUno20]

Brutal ko. Froch made himself a ton of dough, not that he needs it, but sounds like he gets a huge payday with Chavez in vegas now

 

[Marciano490]

That should be a good or even great fight depending on how in-shape Chavez is.  Lots of action and body punches in that one; could be brutal.
 
Froch has a lot of holes in his defense.  Great fighters like Ward can pick him apart, but lesser fighters like Chavez will get overwhelmed by his power and activity rate.
 
I'm glad HBO doesn't let his girlfriend sit near microphones anymore.

 

[ElUno20]

Sergio won't be allowed to wear his knee brace on Saturday.

Im not saying. Im just saying, yuri foreman wore his vs cotto in new york years back

 

[ElUno20]

Absolutely pathetic performance by sergio. And id put money on cotto being on something. Jesus fn christ what a wipe out

 

[allaboutthesox]

Cotto absolutely destroys Martinez and it feels so good!  Martinez never really recovered from the first round and I don't want to hear any excuses.  Martinez ran his mouth and it wasn't as big as his boxing game.  This was a fantastic performance by Cotto and he fought a smart fight as well.  He wasn't just all aggression and landed several clean shots to the body.  If this fight had gone any further, Martinez would have eventually gotten hurt real bad.  It was a good stoppage and the funny thing about it all is, that Martinez said he would knock Cotto out in the ninth.
 
I am ecstatic about this result and I am sure somehow someone will find a way to try to diminish the result.

 

[ElUno20]

The only thing that takes away from the win is age and injury. Thats a reality. Could cotto have done this to sergio 3 years ago? Hell fn no. But thats irrelevant because you can only fight whats in front of you.

As for the trash talk, I never hold anything against a fighter. The name of the game before the bell rings is to sell the fight. Period. And with cotto being a complete mute, someone had to.

But I do hate the whole champion at a weight class without the fight actually being at the weight thing. Its annoying.

Cotto Floyd 2 looks most likely with Canelo having an outside shot if he beats lara which is a huge if.

 

[Marciano490]

The only thing that takes away from the win is age and injury. Thats a reality. Could cotto have done this to sergio 3 years ago? Hell fn no. But thats irrelevant because you can only fight whats in front of you.

As for the trash talk, I never hold anything against a fighter. The name of the game before the bell rings is to sell the fight. Period. And with cotto being a complete mute, someone had to.

But I do hate the whole champion at a weight class without the fight actually being at the weight thing. Its annoying.

Cotto Floyd 2 looks most likely with Canelo having an outside shot if he beats lara which is a huge if.

 
Sad but maybe true.  Comcast went out for me when I tried to order the fight.  Bastards.

 

[WayBackVazquez]

 
Sad but maybe true.  Comcast went out for me when I tried to order the fight.  Bastards.

 
If you think that's sad, you'll be despondent when Floyd announces he's fighting Maidana again. There's no way he's going to fight Cotto after the way he looked Saturday night.

 

[Marciano490]

Was Cotto that impressive? Or was Sergio just gimpy?  I still haven't gotten to watch yet.

 

[WayBackVazquez]

He looked very, very good. The left hook is terrifying.

 

[Marciano490]

He's a weird guy.  He comes across like he doesn't give a damn and would rather be playing with his kids, but then he's a killer in the ring and one of the toughest fighters out there.  I wonder how his career would've gone without Margarito's loaded gloves.

 

[allaboutthesox]

The only thing that takes away from the win is age and injury. Thats a reality. Could cotto have done this to sergio 3 years ago? Hell fn no. But thats irrelevant because you can only fight whats in front of you.

As for the trash talk, I never hold anything against a fighter. The name of the game before the bell rings is to sell the fight. Period. And with cotto being a complete mute, someone had to.

But I do hate the whole champion at a weight class without the fight actually being at the weight thing. Its annoying.

Cotto Floyd 2 looks most likely with Canelo having an outside shot if he beats lara which is a huge if.

 
Cotto is far from a mute, he just doesn't get caught up in all the trash talk about his opponent.  He does his "talking in the ring" if you will.  Regardless of what could of or would have happened three years ago is completely irrelevant at this point.  Martinez took the fight and stated he was completely healed and healthy.  In the end it might have been a bad decision to make that fight after such a long layoff (14 months).  Maybe he should have taken a tune up fight, who knows.  The fact is that Cotto dominated Martinez in every aspect of the fight from body punches, cutting off the ring, head punches, power punches, and defense.  Cotto deserved this win and it may be the highlight of his career and should cement his credentials to the Boxing Hall of Fame.
 
I do think it is a bit misleading to be the "champion" of a division in which one has never fought at before as well.  But, that is why boxing is an interesting sport.  One can see a fighter rise to the top only then to see if he has skill to maintain being up top as others will come looking to take what that fighter has.  I think it will be really interesting to see if Cotto stays at middleweight or just bounces from weight class to weight class in search of the next title or big money fight.  I am still suspect of Cotto staying at 160 and sustaining success.  Although he is my favorite fighter, this was the type of fight where if he would have said, "I am done and have completed what I set out to do" I would have been happy for him to walk out on top.
 
But, since that didn't happen.  I will just sit back and wait to see where he goes from here and enjoy the ride however long it lasts.

 

[Marciano490]

Damn, Cotto is only 34?  I know he raise to prominence early, but it feels like he's been around forever.

 

[BoredViewer]

When your nickname is "the fighting collegian" and the other guy is "the Siberian Rocky".... you might be in trouble.
 
But, we'll see...

 

[BoredViewer]

Well.. that turned into quite a fight.  Interesting decision coming up.
 
* Wow!  Algieri pulls the stunner with a split decision win.
 
 
 
 
 
.  

 

[ElUno20]

I thought he won it but didnt think the judges had the balls to give it to him. Max and Jim were their usual homer selves for the house fighter last night. Glad Ward was there to offer a balance to that last night.

I hope the judge that had it 117-109 enjoys his Sunday afternoon on Bob Arum's yatch today. Thats a brutal score

 

[Marciano490]

I thought Provodnikhov won easily, but it really was a case study in judges prioritizing volume over effectiveness in their scoring, so I can't be too, too upset.  Still, RP pushed the action the entire fight and landed the only blows that mattered.  Plus, at the end of the day, Algieri had only landed 80 more punches and just 13 more power punches, so it's not like he was even landing much more than RP over the course of a 12 round fight.
 
Also, the undercard was awesome.  I used to spar with Andrade, and have seen him train since he was 12 or 13.  The kid is going to be champ for a long, long time.

 

[BoredViewer]

It was definitely a weird fight to score.  
 
I could've seen it either way.  Though for those that didn't see... it wasn't like Algieri was just flitting around the outside landing jabs.  He was throwing and landing a variety and volume of power shots.  They just didn't have the same heft behind them as Provodnikhov's bombs.

 

[Marciano490]

They had no heft. Natural power aside, if you choke up on the bat as it were when throwing, obviously you'll have greater speed and accuracy. I just don't think that should be rewarded over turned over blows that do actual damage.

 

[seageral]

I've always wondered what it is about turning your hands over that increases power.  Is it that when you turn your hands over your shoulder naturally extends farther?  Or that it allows you to use bigger muscles?  More general movement = more force?  A combination?  Something else?

 

[Marciano490]

I don't know the science behind it, but it definitely works.  Dempsey used to also close his fist at the last minute, which he considered to be the source of his power.  I used to try that, but it's pretty dangerous to punch with an open fist if your opponent comes forward into the punch unexpectedly.
 
I was, however, more referring to hip movement.  You can be quicker and more accurate without sitting down on your punches or turning them over in that way, but I don't think it's an effective approach, and when I score fights, I discount litle flicker punches.

 

[WayBackVazquez]

I'm curious, have you ever watched the Hagler-Leonard fight?

 

[seageral]

I don't know the science behind it, but it definitely works.  Dempsey used to also close his fist at the last minute, which he considered to be the source of his power.  I used to try that, but it's pretty dangerous to punch with an open fist if your opponent comes forward into the punch unexpectedly.
 
I was, however, more referring to hip movement.  You can be quicker and more accurate without sitting down on your punches or turning them over in that way, but I don't think it's an effective approach, and when I score fights, I discount litle flicker punches.

 
Interesting.  Yeah the Diaz brothers approach to boxing is more annoying than destructive.  For them it works but only because it's usually a setup for a takedown.  
 
I found that hagler-leonard fight to be infuriating.  

 

[Marciano490]

I'm curious, have you ever watched the Hagler-Leonard fight?

 
Yeah. Goody Petronelli was my trainer.  I won't spoil who I thought won.

 

[WayBackVazquez]

But by how much?
 
I think that was the first fight I really cared about. The last time I saw it (several years ago), I was much less convinced that Hagler had won. I like Provodnikhov (my wife works out at Wild Card, so we've become fans of Freddie's guys), but I thought the kid fought a great fight that could have gone either way.

 

[Marciano490]

Not a blowout, but 8-4.  It's been years since I've seen it though.
 
I think Algieri fought the fight of his life, I'm not trying to take anything away from him.  But, if we're going to score pro fights like amateur fights, we should just drop the pretense.  It's not the number of landed blows alone, it's their effect.  Plus Provo controlled and pressed the action.

 

[ElUno20]

I completely disagree. Provo got a boxing lesson put on him and was barely landing punches. I cant judge a fight on what a guy would do if he could catch a guy. Thats ridiculous. Thats my biggest pet peeve in boxing. These stalking Margarito types whine like babies because they dont have the skills to box for 12 rounds.

On another subject, watching the first episode of all access makes me wonder how many great fighters we miss out on from cuba. Truly sucks.

 

[ElUno20]

Terrence Crawford and Gamboa were just in, at least, a top 5 fight of the year. Fireworks one week early in Nebraska.

Gamboa should stay at 130 and below. Gutsy effort but he doesnt have the pop to hurt guys at 135

 

[Marciano490]

I completely disagree. Provo got a boxing lesson put on him and was barely landing punches. I cant judge a fight on what a guy would do if he could catch a guy. Thats ridiculous. Thats my biggest pet peeve in boxing. These stalking Margarito types whine like babies because they dont have the skills to box for 12 rounds.

On another subject, watching the first episode of all access makes me wonder how many great fighters we miss out on from cuba. Truly sucks.

 
You know not every boxer has a similar skill set or game plan.  It's absurd to say that a champion like Margarito doesn't have boxing skills.
 
if Provo was barely landing punches, what happened to Algieri's face and how'd he end up on the canvas?  It's a fight, not a so you think you can dance.

 

[WayBackVazquez]

 
If you think that's sad, you'll be despondent when Floyd announces he's fighting Maidana again. There's no way he's going to fight Cotto after the way he looked Saturday night.

 
What do I win?

 

[seageral]

Anyone thinking of going to Golovkin/Geale on the 26th?

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

Canelo is the most unexciting "exciting" boxer I've seen in quite a while.
 
Getting schooled on most rounds by Lara. It says a lot that this still unpolished puncher is ranked #2 in the world. Wild, completely open, eats jabs like a PB&J sandwich, and takes terrible angles. 
 
It's only round 7 but terribly disappointed by Canelo's performance so far. One may say he hasn't learned anything from the PBF fight but I now think this is the ceiling of his talents. 

 

[eddiew112]

Dan Rafael somehow has Canelo ahead, Lara up 5 rounds to 2 for me