Sons of Peter McNeeley- Boxing Thread

ElUno20

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
4,333
You guys going off media reports are just wasting your time with this floyd and manny shit. We dont know shit about the negotiations. Period. Any reports about what each side wants is a waste, who is it coming from? Who does it benefit for it to be public?
 

ElUno20

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
4,333
thestardawg said:
PBF has never wanted the fight.  There's a 20-30% all along that he might lose, and that's enough for him to put obstacle after obstacle in the way of the fight.
 
Go 55-45  Maybe 60-40.  67/33 is akin to the offer of a flat 40 Mill a few years ago.  A nonstarter.  Now we'll get to see Floyd-Khan and Manny-Vargas...fights that no one wants to watch.
You and seoulsox with this shit is nuts. Top fighters rarely fear other fighters. It just doesnt happen. Even when theyre overmatched and guaranteed to lose, it's not in their DNA. We're not talking about middling FNF guys here, we're talking the elite guys.

And since you two think floyd is such a coward, i wonder how you two feel about the great sugar ray leonard who ran from Hagler and Pryor for years.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
48,128
I, for one, think Ray Leonard is a punk.
 
Also, let's not act like top fighters don't duck other top fighters.  Lots of guys ducked Foreman.  Lewis retired rather than fight Vitaly again.  Nobody wanted Mercer in the HW division for awhile, either.  Hell, people hated fighting defensive fighters like Winky Wright for awhile because he'd make them look bad.
 
I don't know PBF, I've never talked to him or asked him about the Manny fight, but there are a bunch of plausible reasons why he'd be "afraid" to step in the ring with both the most viable opponent out there and the one who will make him by far the most money, regardless of the fight.  Either you believe Manny is the holdout, or PBF is the one doing the ducking, and what rationale do you have to explain that?
 

ElUno20

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
4,333
The explanation has always been crystal clear it's just a better story to spin it as floyd is afraid of manny.

Floyd used to fight for arum who told him he'd should be happy getting 2 million a fight. It's well known ther split was very nasty and ugly. Floyd hates arum and he has never wanted to help him make a dime again. Arum has not helped matters with his world famous troll tactics over the years. That's it. It's that easy. Always has been.


Either way it's a moot point. If the story is true of floyd just witnessing his friend committing a murder suicide, his career is over.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
48,128
ElUno20 said:
The explanation has always been crystal clear it's just a better story to spin it as floyd is afraid of manny.

Floyd used to fight for arum who told him he'd should be happy getting 2 million a fight. It's well known ther split was very nasty and ugly. Floyd hates arum and he has never wanted to help him make a dime again. Arum has not helped matters with his world famous troll tactics over the years. That's it. It's that easy. Always has been.


Either way it's a moot point. If the story is true of floyd just witnessing his friend committing a murder suicide, his career is over.
 
Agree to disagree on all your points here.  I know about Floyd's hatred for Arum, but I don't think he'd cut off his nose to spite his face to the tune of $100 million.  In the list of things I'd imagine PBF cares about, I'd say 1 legacy, 2 money, 150 Bob Arum.  You might draft the list differently, but neither of us know, as you pointed out above.
 
The FaceTime thing is horrifying, but I don't think it'll make him quit boxing.
 

ElUno20

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
4,333
Marciano490 said:
 
Agree to disagree on all your points here.  I know about Floyd's hatred for Arum, but I don't think he'd cut off his nose to spite his face to the tune of $100 million.  In the list of things I'd imagine PBF cares about, I'd say 1 legacy, 2 money, 150 Bob Arum.  You might draft the list differently, but neither of us know, as you pointed out above.
 
The FaceTime thing is horrifying, but I don't think it'll make him quit boxing.
Well on that we may be able to agree. He has been able to cut off his nose long enough to earn 300 mill plus without arum but it's probably reached its course. 100 mill for 1 fight is too much to turn down. I wouldn't be surprised if part of the deal is arum being a silent partner for the fight though.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
48,128
ElUno20 said:
Well on that we may be able to agree. He has been able to cut off his nose long enough to earn 300 mill plus without arum but it's probably reached its course. 100 mill for 1 fight is too much to turn down. I wouldn't be surprised if part of the deal is arum being a silent partner for the fight though.
 
The lifespan of bad actors in boxing seems to be disproportionately long.  Next year for the death pool, I think I'll just throw in the name of every asshole in boxing and will probably hit on at least 3.  Well, scratch that, 2 - I didn't realize Jose Sulaiman died in January.
 

SeoulSoxFan

I Want to Hit the World with Rocket Punch
Dope
Jun 27, 2006
20,730
A Scud Away from Hell
ElUno20 said:
You and seoulsox with this shit is nuts. Top fighters rarely fear other fighters. It just doesnt happen. 
 
Yet it IS, and has been, happening with Pretty Boy. First it's demanding blood testing, then wanting a 2/3 of the purse. Short of PBF tweeting "I am a duck" I don't think there's anything that'll ever convince you otherwise, E20. 
 

ElUno20

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
4,333
SeoulSoxFan said:
 
Yet it IS, and has been, happening with Pretty Boy. First it's demanding blood testing, then wanting a 2/3 of the purse. Short of PBF tweeting "I am a duck" I don't think there's anything that'll ever convince you otherwise, E20. 
I'm sorry i refuse to be naive and think floyd is the only one making demands. I'm sorry i think bob arum is a POS and the sport will be infinitely better the day he dies. Im sorry.

Look, the fight will happen. They are both old and slower and id give Manny a 50/50 shot of landing something big and knocking floyd out. Id actually prefer it just so i don't have to hear manny fans poking out their chests that everyone from klitschko down is afraid of him. It'd finally be over and we could burn all the record books because there'd only be Manny.
 

ElUno20

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
4,333
Well id be on the glass half empty side, im just saying he's slowed and there are openings
 

ElUno20

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
4,333
Boxing schedule to try and salvage this terrible year for the sport
Tonight - Austin Trout on espn
Friday - lara vs ishe smith on showtime
Saturday - one triple header and one quadruple header on both networks.

Joel diaz and Oscar will have to be at both events as they have fighters on both cards.

I hope khans size doesnt just overwhelm devon like he did to judah. If it doesn't, man, i fully expected Devon to administer an ass kicking.
 

thestardawg

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 30, 2005
609
Section 38, Row 13
I think your comments about Arum are definitely part of it, but if Arum was putting up a very beatable fighter for 100 million dollars, PBF would have already fought him.  PBF has a history of avoiding fighters that present a real challenge to his record. 
 
I think if they fought in their prime it would have been the other way around.  Manny would have won 20% of the time by decision based on volume, Floyd would have won the other 80% of the time, mainly by KO'ng an overly aggressive Pacman.  I don't think the percentages have changed much, and I think the same scenario exists. 
 
Anyhow, I'll be in Vegas tonight, and am going to Khan-Alexander tomorrow.  I'm pretty excited, we have pretty damn good seats.  I've been to PBF-Guerrero, PBF-Maidana and PacMan-Bradley in Vegas before.  I don't expect anywhere near that atmosphere, but it still should be awesome.
 

eddiew112

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 7, 2005
4,274
Boston
ElUno20 said:
I hope khans size doesnt just overwhelm devon like he did to judah.
This happened, and then some. Khan was phenomenal, I thought he was far more controlled and surgical than I have ever seen him. He got caught a few times, but instead of going for broke he went right back to the game plan (of course, it helped that Alexander doesn't have much pop at welterweight). As always, his combination punching was an absolute joy to watch. Alexander was pretty game as well; he tried to push the action but he had no answers. 
 

ElUno20

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
4,333
The job virgil has done with Khan, i know it's early, but is Klitschko-steward esque
 

ElUno20

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
4,333
If you're a boxing nerd, there's a guy on youtube with a great channel breaking down fighters/fights. Ive almost gone through all his videos. Theyre really good.

for example, lara canelo, or any of the floyd maidana ones , floyd judah adjustments http://youtu.be/lncx-J4VjHk, or how marquez got to manny (http://youtu.be/tv0LCvbFytI)

If you have 10 or 15 minutes to spare, id recommend you look around his channel. GGGs footwork, crawford, even some classic stuff there too

Edit. The lara one didnt post but its worth your time
 

SeoulSoxFan

I Want to Hit the World with Rocket Punch
Dope
Jun 27, 2006
20,730
A Scud Away from Hell
ElUno20 said:
If you're a boxing nerd, there's a guy on youtube with a great channel breaking down fighters/fights. Ive almost gone through all his videos. Theyre really good.

for example, lara canelo, or any of the floyd maidana ones , floyd judah adjustments http://youtu.be/lncx-J4VjHk, or how marquez got to manny (http://youtu.be/tv0LCvbFytI)

If you have 10 or 15 minutes to spare, id recommend you look around his channel. GGGs footwork, crawford, even some classic stuff there too

Edit. The lara one didnt post but its worth your time
 
Nice find! Thanks for the links E20 -- will check'em out for sure.
 

WayBackVazquez

white knight against high school nookie
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2006
8,294
Los Angeles
SeoulSoxFan said:
Yup -- PBF will be a prohibitive favorite, but it's one of those fights that just must happen.
The fight would go off at closer odds than any fight Floyd has had since De Le Hoya. Probably around Manny +200, Floyd -300. That's far from prohibitive as far as boxing odds go.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
48,128
WayBackVazquez said:
The fight would go off at closer odds than any fight Floyd has had since De Le Hoya. Probably around Manny +200, Floyd -300. That's far from prohibitive as far as boxing odds go.
 
If we get spring bonuses this year, mine's going all on Floyd.
 

ElUno20

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
4,333
Id obviously favor Floyd as he's probably my favorite fighter (despite him being a complete loser POS outside the ring) but here's my rationale for Manny winning. If Roach (and he's an expert at this), has him focus clearly on getting in, throwing combos and getting out, and drills that into manny for 12 rounds then he'd win just off activity. Basically, i think roach's master plan is NOT to emphasis the knockout but pull the Sugar Ray.
 

ElUno20

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
4,333
SeoulSoxFan said:
 
Nice find! Thanks for the links E20 -- will check'em out for sure.
Dude. I'm addicted to these now. There's one on GGG's counter punching that is fantastic
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
48,128
ElUno20 said:
Id obviously favor Floyd as he's probably my favorite fighter (despite him being a complete loser POS outside the ring) but here's my rationale for Manny winning. If Roach (and he's an expert at this), has him focus clearly on getting in, throwing combos and getting out, and drills that into manny for 12 rounds then he'd win just off activity. Basically, i think roach's master plan is NOT to emphasis the knockout but pull the Sugar Ray.
 
I can see an Oscar situation where Manny takes enough straight rights to eventually lose interest in engaging.  Activity counts, but remember it's effective aggression.  Manny might be the second best fighter in the world, still, but he's tailor-made for Floyd, wide, sloppy, etc.
 

ElUno20

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
4,333
Marciano490 said:
 
I can see an Oscar situation where Manny takes enough straight rights to eventually lose interest in engaging.  Activity counts, but remember it's effective aggression.  Manny might be the second best fighter in the world, still, but he's tailor-made for Floyd, wide, sloppy, etc.
judges can be swayed though. And manny is a huge star. So in his case, I'd say activity could carry the day.
 

ElUno20

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
4,333
Rigo got dropped twice in Japan but ultimately comes back and wins by stoppage.

And still wants Santa Cruz with only 3 weeks rest. As you can imagine, leo santa cruz wants no part of Rigo
 

ElUno20

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
4,333
Andre Ward's promotional and legal hell is officially over. He signed with Jay-Z this morning and officially worked out a deal to part ways with Goossen promotions
 

ElUno20

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
4,333
In news that will be overshadowed, obviously, Al Haymon's first nbc card will feature Broner vs Molina and Thurman vs Guerrero. Thats a sick ass co main event for an nbc card
 

ElUno20

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
4,333
Marciano490 said:
Manny supposedly agreed to terms to fight PBF.  It's gonna happen, fellas.
Yeah it's been pretty obvious for the last couple weeks. still not keeling dan rafael from his constant floyd bashing
 

ElUno20

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
4,333
Haymon following that 1st nbc card with garcia vs lamont peterson in april.

Id like to thank al haymon!
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
48,128
ElUno20 said:
Cable level fights for free on nbc is a huge win for boxing
 
Absolutely, and I think Peterson has the right combination of speed and power to get Garcia, who looks ripe lately.
 

ElUno20

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
4,333
Garcia is also not very mobile. This should be a phone booth fight which favors Peterson, imo.

From today's press conference, AB never fails to entertain with his delusions:
"It's bringing the world back into boxing," Broner said. "Right now, boxing only reaches out to certain people. That's why certain people, when I walk around, don't know me. They might know me from certain antics I do, but they don't know me from boxing. With NBC coming back, it's people that don't follow boxing that can come back into boxing. This is definitely great for the sport, and they want me to be the LeBron of boxing.

"... This is what they needed. They needed me, and I needed NBC. It's 'AB' on NBC. I'm definitely ready to put on a great show for NBC. It's my time. Think about it, Showtime had [approximately] 21 million [subscribers] and NBC got 115 million. It's the biggest outlet."
 

ElUno20

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
4,333
Stiverne and Wilder this weekend. But just a reminder, friday night fights has a good main event tonight. Pretty decent C level fight of Vera vs Willie Monroe Jr.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
48,128
ElUno20 said:
Stiverne and Wilder this weekend. But just a reminder, friday night fights has a good main event tonight. Pretty decent C level fight of Vera vs Willie Monroe Jr.
Excited to see what Wilder can do tonight. He's the one shot America has at the HW title.
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
SoSH Member
Jul 21, 2005
17,585
Raleigh, NC
What'd you think? I had seen neither fighter before, and don't know follow the heavyweights typically, so I couldn't tell if it was poor competition or not but he obviously looked polished.
 

ElUno20

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
4,333
I posted last night but tapatalk was having some issues. Anyways...

As far as competition Stiverne is a solid opponent. As good as most not named Wlad in the HW division and honestly, i could not have been more impressed with Wilder. That performance was more impressive than an early knockout would have been. He was mature and refused to walk into traps. And when you've been knocking everyone out and running your mouth, it takes a lot of maturity to see the bigger picture (stiverne wasn't going to be ko'd) and stick to your game plan to close it out and win the title. He's not there yet but last night was a huge step forward in answering a ton of questions.

Happy for the kid. I hope Alabama throws him a parade or something
 

Montana Fan

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 18, 2000
8,405
Twin Bridges, Mt.
Wilder looked good and I agree that he fought smartly and didn't make mistakes as the fight went on. My worry was that he would leave himself open as he tired or get lazy and it didn't happen.

Stivers was a very easy target. His head is massive and he barely moved except forward into punches. He coulda used Marlon Starling in his corner.
 

ElUno20

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
4,333
As i kind of suspected, wilder hurt his right hand in the earlier rounds last night.

And the news isnt good on the mayweather-pac front, cotto vs canelo is officially dead which means...
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
48,128
I want Manny-Floyd more than anyone, but I wouldn't hate a Cotto rematch. Miguel gave Floyd is toughest fight and has gotten a fair amount better since while Floyd's gotten worse. If Cotto is +200 or better I'll lay some money down.

I'll analyze the fight from this weekend when I'm in front of a computer.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
48,128
Drocca said:
What'd you think? I had seen neither fighter before, and don't know follow the heavyweights typically, so I couldn't tell if it was poor competition or not but he obviously looked polished.
 
I thought Wilder performed at the top end of expectations.  He worked his jab very well, and actually seemed quite polished given his KO history and first appearance in a title fight.  That lack of polish you noticed is just common to superheavyweights; they're awkard and wide, but I thought he did a good job keeping most of his punches down the pike.
 
I'd love to see him develop a better hook off the jab like Klitschko learned from ES.  He'd also be very effective throwing more lead crosses - think Ali vs Foreman.  He's going to need to get up to 230 or so; he can't face off against Klitchko under 200 and he's very, very lucky Stiverne didn't make him pay to the body.  Frankly, Stiverne looked too relaxed in there, unless he was hurt and did an atrocious job cutting off the ring, which was one of the differences in the fight.  When he did get Wilder against the ropes, he was too prone to head hunting, which is a big mistake against a taller fighter.  This was an especially bad idea because Wilder came in so lean and, frankly, flimsy, body shots likely would've worn him down over time.
 
I don't think Wilder is ready for WK just yet.  He's still too straight forward and back, and I'd love to see him double his jab a bit more or hook off it.  He also needs to fill out a bit.  I think him vs. Tyson Fury would be an entertaining, though not pretty fight, which he should win easily and then set himself up for a Klitschko fight either at the end of the year or after one more tune up.  The problem is, there aren't a lot of fighters in the division to hone your craft against.  He'd run over most everyone else, so it's hard to tell who he'd get reps in against.
 

ElUno20

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
4,333
Marciano, can we get you on FNF to replace tedy? Spot on with everything on wilder.

Rios v Alvarado 3 is tomorrow. Yeah it means nothing and Mike is a train wreck but man is it going to be fun to watch.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
48,128
ElUno20 said:
Marciano, can we get you on FNF to replace tedy? Spot on with everything on wilder.

Rios v Alvarado 3 is tomorrow. Yeah it means nothing and Mike is a train wreck but man is it going to be fun to watch.
 
Thanks.  The Rios fight shouls be bloody and entertaining, which is good because it really looks like Floyd is going to blow off the Pacquiao fight.  "I gotta look at this PPV numbers."  What a joke.
 

ElUno20

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
4,333
Floyd is either the biggest coward in the world or his hate for arum is so strong it blinds him from the obvious. Because I can't think of anyone on the planet I wouldn't fight for 120 mill. Babies and the disabled included