Sons of Peter McNeeley- Boxing Thread

ElUno20

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One of geale's best chances to win was he is a real middleweight but as was discussed by both camps at the press conference today, this fight is at 157.

Another boxing podcast recommendation on top of the ropes from grantland. Hbo boxing has recurring one that previews their fights. The one for this week is with a solid preview for this matchup. You can find it on podcast republic or whatever you use to get your pods.
 

ElUno20

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Live boxing is a different experience. IMO, no other sports compares to it live even for smaller, lesser fights. You'll have a great time.
 

PseuFighter

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I'll be at the fight with my dad. Picked up some pretty good seats for pretty cheap on StubHub yesterday. We'll be going straight from the Belmont.
 
Never been to a big time boxing event before, so I'm pretty excited.
 

PseuFighter

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If the HBO telecast starts at 10:30, any guesses as to what time the actual fight would start? (bell time, not intros). No interest in the undercard, and we'll be heading back direct via LIRR from the horse race.
 
My dad thinks 10:45-11 for it to start is realistic. Yes?
 

Marciano490

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Usually when they block off an hour like this they get right into the fight. I'd guess 10:40.
 

BroodsSexton

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Apparently Fernando Vargas is still fighting. He's on the undercard. Some heavyweight from China (Okympic silver medalist) just beat the hell out of a guy named "The Gingerbreadman.". I mean, really? Why not just call yourself "the crumbly cookie who runs away"?
 

Marciano490

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Cotto looked great but small. I'd fly to Vegas to see him fight Canelo, but I think GGG is too big for him.
 

PseuFighter

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BroodsSexton said:
The arena was far from empty. I am no expert but Cotto's bodywork early and his left
hooks were impressive.
the lower level was mostly full once the fight started. half the upper level was closed off. it made for a pretty good crowd.

i've been down on barclays since it opened, but it's a tremendous venue for boxing. would definitely go back. i really hope they get more big fights.
 

allstonite

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I'm no boxing expert but is anyone watching this Broner fight? Does Broner need the KO in these last 2 rounds?
 

allstonite

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Guess so. Loved Porter's aggressiveness. After the first few rounds, every time Broner held he would just keep punching and punching until the ref came in and physically separated them. And then would charge full speed into the restart. Broner looked like he was crying when they announced the winner
 

ElUno20

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I completely disagree with the judges and the public.

First things first, i truly believe in my heart that porter should be banned from television. All his fights are fn awful and his plan of attack isnt even boxing. He just barrels in, head first and throws wild and ineffective punches. It's atrocious and a disgrace he keeps getting tv fights.

Second, the holding broner was being bashed for and eventually penalized for was a god damn joke. If a guy is running in head first, you HAVE to grab and hold him to avoid head butts. Especially when the ref has no balls and refuses to warn the fighter. It allows a bum ass, unskilled fighter to close a massive talent disparity like it did last night and that's incredibly irresponsible and incompetent of the ref

Lastly, no way broner only won 2 rounds. But who cares, porter is a garbage fighter. Just move on and forget that trash ever happened.
 

Marciano490

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So you thought Broner won that fight? What's your take on Ali-Foreman or Holyfield-Tyson?
 

ElUno20

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Marciano490 said:
So you thought Broner won that fight? What's your take on Ali-Foreman or Holyfield-Tyson?
No, i dont think i said that. I felt he got outworked and I had porter winning it by a few rounds. My point was the scoring was god awful and all the broner hate plays a huge role into the public reaction. You cant tell me, as someone who watches boxing on a regular basis, that you didnt see the massive gap in boxing talent between the two. But porter, as is his MO, got away with leading with his head so much and never even got 1 warning. That makes a huge difference in a fight.

My biggest pet peeve in sports is bad scoring that gets overlooked because the right guy won. It drives me fucking crazy.

Also, i rewatched the fight, and porter got way too much credit for doing absolutely nothing and landing bullshit all night. I know people dont care, because again we're talking about broner, but i do. Every round is a single event, even more so in a fight that goes the full 12. You're not supposed to judge a fight on the feel of how things are going.


And again, shawn porter should never have any of his fights televised. Ever. He is an awful boxer.
 

BGrif21125

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ElUno20 said:
You cant tell me, as someone who watches boxing on a regular basis, that you didnt see the massive gap in boxing talent between the two.
I think we often see a guy with fast hands and automatically equate that with "talent" or "skill." Broner has fast hands, but I don't see any of the other skills that go into being a top fighter. He's not a good defensive fighter, he doesn't move his feet that well, he doesn't counterpunch effectively, etc. Like other Haymon-groomed prospects before him, he looked really good when he was fighting smaller, slower fighters who couldn't hurt him. That doesn't get you far.

I don't find Porter that enjoyable to watch. But he's a more complete prizefighter than Broner is, and that was on display in this fight. Forget PFP talk, Broner's more realistic ceiling is something like Zab Judah. And that's if he gets his act together.
 

Marciano490

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ElUno20 said:
No, i dont think i said that. I felt he got outworked and I had porter winning it by a few rounds. My point was the scoring was god awful and all the broner hate plays a huge role into the public reaction. You cant tell me, as someone who watches boxing on a regular basis, that you didnt see the massive gap in boxing talent between the two. But porter, as is his MO, got away with leading with his head so much and never even got 1 warning. That makes a huge difference in a fight.

My biggest pet peeve in sports is bad scoring that gets overlooked because the right guy won. It drives me fucking crazy.

Also, i rewatched the fight, and porter got way too much credit for doing absolutely nothing and landing bullshit all night. I know people dont care, because again we're talking about broner, but i do. Every round is a single event, even more so in a fight that goes the full 12. You're not supposed to judge a fight on the feel of how things are going.


And again, shawn porter should never have any of his fights televised. Ever. He is an awful boxer.
 
 
BGrif21125 said:
I think we often see a guy with fast hands and automatically equate that with "talent" or "skill." Broner has fast hands, but I don't see any of the other skills that go into being a top fighter. He's not a good defensive fighter, he doesn't move his feet that well, he doesn't counterpunch effectively, etc. Like other Haymon-groomed prospects before him, he looked really good when he was fighting smaller, slower fighters who couldn't hurt him. That doesn't get you far.

I don't find Porter that enjoyable to watch. But he's a more complete prizefighter than Broner is, and that was on display in this fight. Forget PFP talk, Broner's more realistic ceiling is something like Zab Judah. And that's if he gets his act together.
 
Agreed with most of what BGrif says.  I also saw Porter land flush a lot and go to the body effectively.  Obviously, the 118-108 score was absurd, but the other judges called it close.  Broner's one of those guys who always looks like he could be doing more (see the 12th round knockdown), but never really does.  At a certain point, he is who he is.  He's truly a weak defensive fighter, and for all his handspeed, he doesn't get himself in great position to throw effective punches.  He gets flustered to easily and he's easy to take off his game plan as a result.  Porter isn't a tip top fighter, but he comes forward, has a ton of heart, good power and I like his rowdy style.  In a fight, you have to do what you can to win, and Porter knew he wasn't going to win a beauty contest against Broner.
 

ElUno20

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I agree with a lot of what you guys responded with but i differ on a few points.

My last point on the fight was overall, broner landed the cleaner more effective punches. That fight looked a lot like the paulie broner fight to me.

On broner as a fighter, the main point I'd disagree with is his defense. He's a very good and smart defender, especially given his tendency to be flat foot and stand in front of his opponent. Before and after the maidana fight he has rarely been hit with those same shots that sat hit down.

The judah comparison is pretty good. Because like judah, his failures are coming from a hesitancy to let his hands go at a higher weight for fear of whats coming back, imo.

But, as marciano credited porter for his heart, unlike judah, broner has a solid chin, is tough as fuck, and has shown tremendous heart. No one will ever give him credit but he got up and hung in there with marcos. He even had him hurt late in that fight. If he was mexican, he'd be praised for that performance.

Either way, this is a fighter we're going to differ on so it might be best to drop it instead of laboring on. The two of you have some excellent analysis of him and his future, i just feel slightly different.

Did either of you catch Lemieux vs N'Dam? Lemieux and all the greatness that is his hair will produce some serious fireworks against ggg.
I know GGG will KO him but it will be so much fun while it last.
 

Marciano490

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Have not, but will.  Where can I find it?
 
I agree Broner has a ton of heart.  That twelfth round knockdown is evidence of that.
 
Surprised to see JCC fighting again.  Thought Fonfara might've retired him.
 

ElUno20

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Hbo, bob arum, and top rank can go f themselves. Bradley vargas wasnt close, vargas lands a good shot and has a decent TEN SECONDS and now they're trying to push for a fucking rematch?!!! Are you fn kidding me? Seriously.

And now this complete bum of a hype job vargas is crying for a rematch like he earned something. Vargas, gtfoh you god damn bum. You lost. Dont waste the boxing world's time with another ass kicking you're going to get you loser.

You know who bradley should be fighting next? Floyd Mayweather. Not some bum who doesnt have the depth to realize he's in a prize fight for 99% of it
 

ElUno20

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It looks like common sense has prevailed. Bradley and arum have both basically shut the door on any rematch.

Of all the opponents out there, bradley makes the most sense for floyd. He has way more name recognition than any other option not named Pacquiao
 

BGrif21125

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ElUno20 said:
Of all the opponents out there, bradley makes the most sense for floyd. He has way more name recognition than any other option not named Pacquiao
Don't disagree, but contractually it's a non-starter.

Floyd is Haymon/Showtime, Bradley is Arum/HBO.

Floyd-Manny was the one exception. Otherwise it's 2 separate leagues. Floyd will face a Haymon fighter of his choosing.
 

CrouchingTonyHiddenPena

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BGrif21125 said:
Don't disagree, but contractually it's a non-starter.

Floyd is Haymon/Showtime, Bradley is Arum/HBO.

Floyd-Manny was the one exception. Otherwise it's 2 separate leagues. Floyd will face a Haymon fighter of his choosing.
And this is why boxing is being held back from potentially huge expansion in popularity IMVHO. Aside from (beyond) despicable judging from time to time, the absolute control allowed for with fighters on the promotional side, to avoid other fighters and pick and choose as they please, makes for bad fights.
 
I'm speaking very generally, and applying this to all fighters and the sport.  Not singling any fighter or promoter out whatsoever.  They're playing by the rules given.  The rules desperately need to change.
 

Marciano490

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Can we please stop having people fly by this thread and say boxing is dying a slow unavoidable death?  It's absurd.
 

Marciano490

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I mean, we just had the biggest fight in history which was also the biggest sporting event in history.  There are potential generational talents in numerous divisions - guys like Crawford, Floyd, Ward and Lomanchenko.  There's an up and coming US heavyweight champion who is exciting, strong and comes complete with a great story.  There's mashers like GGG and Kovalev.
 

CrouchingTonyHiddenPena

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I contribute to the thread occassionaly, and read it religiously.  Have forever.  I'm a diehard fan of the sport.  Can we please do a little homework before spouting off such a condescending inane request?
 
My post was a leveled as possible considering.  I hope I'm terribly wrong first and foremost, but denying what appears to be the truth, albeit aside from our one 'mega' fight (that ended in a whimper and not a bang, adding MORE fuel to anti-boxing crowd), seems silly to me.  As are some of your hyperbolic posts from time to time, so I guess we're even.
 
It's not as if the notion was just invented with my prior post. A discussion for another time and place is certainly a warranted one, and one that I hope is happening with the right people who help control the sport behind the scenes already.
 

Marciano490

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Okay - so show your work.  Why is boxing dying a slow death and why is it unavoidable?  Is it the fact that it's now being shown on primetime free network TV?  Is it the lack of high-level exciting fighters? 
 

ElUno20

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Boxing isnt dying and never will. It's firmly on the sports back burner and will always maintain potential huge earning power in the background for occasional big fights. Just because it's not a top 5 sport anymore doesnt mean it's dead. It's just in its place, nothing wrong with that.

Other than the obvious long-term effects, the reason it has fallen off isnt all promoter/business based. Some it has to do with it's level of difficulty. To be an average boxer, just average, you have to start pretty young and work your ass off and even then, down the line, the money isnt that great. It's much easier for parents to get their kids into team sports.
 

BGrif21125

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1. Boxing has always been a terribly dysfunctional sport and likely always will be. It deserves criticism in a million different ways.<br />
<br />
2. It's an immensely popular sport with a global reach that is still growing. People have been predicting its death for 100+ years and it's been wrong for 100+ years and counting.<br />
<br />
 

CrouchingTonyHiddenPena

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The primetime expansion is the greatest thing to happen to the sport, IMVHO, in a long while.  That in conjunction with stars on the rise like GGG (who I love to watch fight) being promoted up the arse, is correlationally fantastic.  It's the first true sign of potential expansion to break the recent malaise genreally speaking.
 
Look, we are diehard fans.  We'll watch a couple bums (at least I will) if it's on.  It's just a beautiful sport to watch.  The chess match, the heart, the unexpected, etc.  It was as epic a sport as possible in the heyday of Hagler, Hearns, Sugar, etc.  The  the 90's brought the popularity with the heavies.  And then just a drop off that the sport hasn't fully recovered from (at least back to those popular levels).  Again, I'm only speaking very generally.  I don't meet many diehard boxing fans these days, and it's sad and bothersome.
 
I think despite my hyperbolic pronouncement of death (I'm still pissed at the promotional side of the sport and that won't be changing anytime soon, especially after Pac/Floyd), things appear to be possibly heading in an expansive direction. The results remain to be seen, but I'm holding out hope it continues to grow in popularity on the heels of the 'mega' fight, and other networks take note and jump aboard.  THEN we're cooking with gas.
 

ElUno20

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BGrif21125 said:
Don't disagree, but contractually it's a non-starter.

Floyd is Haymon/Showtime, Bradley is Arum/HBO.

Floyd-Manny was the one exception. Otherwise it's 2 separate leagues. Floyd will face a Haymon fighter of his choosing.
You see i thought about these points but it still makes sense. Here's my reason why business wise it makes sense: bradley's small percentage of a mayweather fight would still be way more than arum using him as a top rank gate keeper, he's the biggest name floyd could fight (his ppv numbers have been dropping before pacquiao), and overall it would be way easier to make then pacquiao mayweather. Bradley would have very little, if any, points to hold up a negotiation. Floyd could have everything he wanted like he normally does.
 

BGrif21125

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ElUno20 said:
You see i thought about these points but it still makes sense. Here's my reason why business wise it makes sense: bradley's small percentage of a mayweather fight would still be way more than arum using him as a top rank gate keeper, he's the biggest name floyd could fight (his ppv numbers have been dropping before pacquiao), and overall it would be way easier to make then pacquiao mayweather. Bradley would have very little, if any, points to hold up a negotiation. Floyd could have everything he wanted like he normally does.
I don't really disagree with this in theory. But these different parties are not in business together.

HBO and Showtime are rival networks whose boxing execs hate each other. They're not looking to share ratings. Arum and Haymon are rival promoters who hate each other. They're not looking to share revenues. Floyd hates Arum. None of these people have any desire to be business partners. They put up with each other once because the money was so obscene that CEOs got involved to bridge the gap for one night.

Tim Bradley is a really good fighter, but in the big picture "boxing industry" sense he's just another guy.
 

Marciano490

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Don't forget, most casual fans remember Bradley as the guy who won a bs decision over Manny before losing badly to him.  That'd be the same Manny who Floyd just whupped.  I don't think there's a lot of action for that fight.
 

ElUno20

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Marciano490 said:
Don't forget, most casual fans remember Bradley as the guy who won a bs decision over Manny before losing badly to him.  That'd be the same Manny who Floyd just whupped.  I don't think there's a lot of action for that fight.
Yeah but whats the saying about bad press?

I know its highly unlikely, i would just love to see it. He brings a unique combination of will and athleticism that floyd hasnt had to deal with in a while
 

Marciano490

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I'm getting so sick of HBO. They actually said GGG popularized the Mexican style. Can't wait for him to get knocked out.

Plus, they were treating the highly skilled Bradley like he's some plucky white middle infielder. All night they talked about his will. Not his aggression or great combinations or footwork. His will. Nonsense.

Vargas blew the endgame. Bradley was out on his feet and he's throwing lame single punches. Plus he got too close and let him clinch. He wasn't knocking Bradley out with those stolen few seconds.
 

BGrif21125

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Marciano490 said:
I'm getting so sick of HBO.
I've been saying for a few years now that HBO Boxing has devolved into an infomercial. They don't actually call fights anymore, they spend the whole telecast "selling" you on a particular HBO fighter or pushing a narrative down your throat.

Lampley doesn't even pretend to be an impartial observer anymore.
 

Marciano490

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Yeah, it's just gotten so brutal lately.  I know they always pushed their fighters and you could see who they were trying to develop, but the GGG as Mexican style fighter extraordinaire was just so absurd.  Frankly, I don't even think he has much of a Mexican style, despite having a Mexican trainer.
 

ElUno20

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Thurman looked drained and tired. He really should have taken an extra month off to recover from the guerrero fight.

Still though, he'd kill floyd on 2 months notice
 

Marciano490

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Anyone know how much the Garcia-Paulie tix are at the Barclay's Center next month?  The link isn't working for me.
 

Marciano490

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Yeah, that's what I tried, but got a Forbidden On This Server notice.  What'd the prices look like?
 

ElUno20

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Im using my phone so dont know if that is making a difference. The forbidden notice shows up but you have to click "im not a robot" and then verify some picture.

I search for the cheaper tickets at 42 bucks and came back empty
 

jsinger121

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Amir Iman KO's Fernando Angulo in the 4th round and his promoter Don King is calling for fight with Mayweather and bring Iman up to 147 to face him.
 

Marciano490

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jsinger121 said:
Amir Iman KO's Fernando Angulo in the 4th round and his promoter Don King is calling for fight with Mayweather and bring Iman up to 147 to face him.
He's not ready yet. Gets hit too much. Would love to see him versus Thurman