SOSH Real Fantasy Draft 2014: Draft Order, Rules, and Draft Thread
- Thread starter Scoops Bolling
- Start date
Who cares if he's in our league? In our league, Travis has to play in the MLB, and he is not ready to do so. It's not the first time someone has been picked that is simply not ready for the MLB and shouldn't have been picked, but it's a fairly egregious example of it because Travis would be even further fucked up by being turned into a bench player. It's a stupid pick, and one that would never have happened if the Tigers farm didn't suck so much. There's a reason I tried to keep the eligibility rules somewhat tight, and picks like Travis are exactly it...he should never have been picked in this exercise. It's just bad, and it irritates me to no small degree. It goes against the spirit of the exercise.Frank said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but I still have to make another pick,correct? Didn't realize when I made my first pick that I should have made TWO picks.
Am I understanding this correctly before I throw a name out?
Am I understanding this correctly before I throw a name out?
Scoops Bolling said:
He could play terribly in the major leagues. This isn't some geek off the streets, he's handy with the wood if you know what I mean.
Here are the write up for my last 2 picks.
David Ross, backup catcher. How could I be Ben's Old Catchers without him. Ross is a solid backup catcher who will again team with McCann to make a great pairing. He is my first old guy at 37 and can lead my team. At the moment, the plan is to have him catch about 50-60 games against right-handed pitchers. He has virtually no split over his career, although he had a big split last year. On these days, McCann will move to DH, Lind to first base, and Sanchez to the bench.
Mike Dunn, RP. Dunn is a hard throwing lefty who finally managed to find some control last year. Averaged 94.4 last year and was solid against both right-handed and left-handed hitters.
David Ross, backup catcher. How could I be Ben's Old Catchers without him. Ross is a solid backup catcher who will again team with McCann to make a great pairing. He is my first old guy at 37 and can lead my team. At the moment, the plan is to have him catch about 50-60 games against right-handed pitchers. He has virtually no split over his career, although he had a big split last year. On these days, McCann will move to DH, Lind to first base, and Sanchez to the bench.
Mike Dunn, RP. Dunn is a hard throwing lefty who finally managed to find some control last year. Averaged 94.4 last year and was solid against both right-handed and left-handed hitters.
You heard it here first - MakMan is on 23 hours, 45 minutes, and 36 seconds per day.MakMan44 said:
Alright, to be all caught up with my picks, I'll go ahead and select RP Jesse Crain.
He's still two weeks away from mound work in spring training as he is recovering from offseason biceps surgery, but with Holland and Parnell already in the fold, I'll take a gamble that Crain will be ready for me by May. I'll watch his innings, make sure he doesn't throw back to backs, etc. If he does come back healthy, that would give me 3 really nice arms in the pen.
He put up a nice 1.52 FIP and 2.94 xFIP in the first half of 2013 and had pretty damn good per 9's.
7.6 H/9
no HR's allowed
2.7 BB/9
11.3 K/9
Sorry about the delays, carry on.
He's still two weeks away from mound work in spring training as he is recovering from offseason biceps surgery, but with Holland and Parnell already in the fold, I'll take a gamble that Crain will be ready for me by May. I'll watch his innings, make sure he doesn't throw back to backs, etc. If he does come back healthy, that would give me 3 really nice arms in the pen.
He put up a nice 1.52 FIP and 2.94 xFIP in the first half of 2013 and had pretty damn good per 9's.
7.6 H/9
no HR's allowed
2.7 BB/9
11.3 K/9
Sorry about the delays, carry on.
This criticism is way over the line.Scoops Bolling said:
First off he is eligible. Secondly it is round 19 and its my first non MLB pick. Do I think this kid will produce this season. No. The reason he is my 3rd choice at 2nd base. Do I think he could have a big impact on the team over the next four years. Damn sure I do. He can hit and he can defend. He will start AA this year and IMO will be AAA before the year end if he plays as he previously had. He is probaby a half year behind Mookie Betts in terms of development and if eligible I have no doubts that Mookie would be off the board now. He is about a year behind Ceccini and again if eligible he would have been picked up. Im delighted with the pick at this point of the draft.
Sorry to kill the run last night, didn't think it would make it to me.
I need someone to back up the left side of my infield and spot second. Surely there isn't anyone out there that can play those positions adequately and give me 20+ HR's. I doubt I'd be able to find someone that is also a switch hitter. Oh, wait...
The Wonderbeards select Zach Walters, BP
He can hit for power (29 HR's in 134 games in AAA) but he's aggressive and doesn't get on base as much as I would like, that's hopefully something he'll work on. He's no slouch in the field either, showing good range and a strong arm at both short and third. At this point in the draft to get a guy who can play SS pretty well with pop from both sides of the plate is pretty sweet.
PM'd Jay
I need someone to back up the left side of my infield and spot second. Surely there isn't anyone out there that can play those positions adequately and give me 20+ HR's. I doubt I'd be able to find someone that is also a switch hitter. Oh, wait...
The Wonderbeards select Zach Walters, BP
He can hit for power (29 HR's in 134 games in AAA) but he's aggressive and doesn't get on base as much as I would like, that's hopefully something he'll work on. He's no slouch in the field either, showing good range and a strong arm at both short and third. At this point in the draft to get a guy who can play SS pretty well with pop from both sides of the plate is pretty sweet.
PM'd Jay
As far as I can tell our teams don't have AA and AAA? Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I've been drafting as if all my players immediately slot into my 25-man roster.Galway Sox Fan said:
Eck'sSneakyCheese said:Sorry to kill the run last night, didn't think it would make it to me.
I need someone to back up the left side of my infield and spot second. Surely there isn't anyone out there that can play those positions adequately and give me 20+ HR's. I doubt I'd be able to find someone that is also a switch hitter. Oh, wait...
The Wonderbeards select Zach Walters, BP
He can hit for power (29 HR's in 134 games in AAA) but he's aggressive and doesn't get on base as much as I would like, that's hopefully something he'll work on. He's no slouch in the field either, showing good range and a strong arm at both short and third. At this point in the draft to get a guy who can play SS pretty well with pop from both sides of the plate is pretty sweet.
PM'd Jay
NOOOOO! I've been irrationally hoping to draft Walters for a while, and was going to finally pull the trigger with my next pick.
A guy putting up a .253/.286/.517 line in AAA, with 29 HR and a 7:1 K:BB ratio, is just quality amusement. Those are video game numbers, if you play by assuming that every pitch will be a high fastball and picking power swing, like I do. He could be the next... I dunno, Jose Valentin? There aren't many precedents for "shortstop who swings for the fences," which is exactly why this is a fun pick.
Logglobo Vlandignorf said:
Thanks LV, I thought he was an interesting pick and I've had my eye on him for a while as well. I thought JBO might take him but when he got past his two picks I was pretty confident he'd fall to me. If the kid can learn a little discipline then he could be a really good pick up here.
EDIT: Also, I didn't see where Toe said to skip him again for this round which is why I thought it would take a while....
Re: Stubbs
Some Drew Stubbs facts: 117 career wRC+ vs. LHP, .274/.349/.448 line. Has been a good defensive OF throughout his career, though his numbers fell off a bit in 2013. Good baserunner, has consistently added value on the basepaths. The Coors thing seems irrelevant though (as much as I wish it mattered).
Starting lineup is complete, I like it a lot.
vs. RHP
CF Gerardo Parra (2012-13 wRC+ vs. RHP: 112)
1B John Jaso (150)
RF Bryce Harper (147)
DH Seth Smith (115)
SS Ian Desmond (121)
LF Matt Kemp (110)
2B Brett Lawrie (96)
C Matt Wieters (79)
3B Maikel Franco (N/A)
vs. LHP
RF Drew Stubbs (109)
SS Ian Desmond (123)
LF Matt Kemp (174)
C Matt Wieters (140)
1B Danny Valencia (134)
2B Brett Lawrie (99)
CF Bryce Harper (90)
DH Wilmer Flores (N/A)
3B Maikel Franco (N/A)
This is not a good comparison, but even if it were, so what? Punto would not be a bad 19th round pick, particularly if he were 29 years old.Eck'sSneakyCheese said:
Some Drew Stubbs facts: 117 career wRC+ vs. LHP, .274/.349/.448 line. Has been a good defensive OF throughout his career, though his numbers fell off a bit in 2013. Good baserunner, has consistently added value on the basepaths. The Coors thing seems irrelevant though (as much as I wish it mattered).
Starting lineup is complete, I like it a lot.
vs. RHP
CF Gerardo Parra (2012-13 wRC+ vs. RHP: 112)
1B John Jaso (150)
RF Bryce Harper (147)
DH Seth Smith (115)
SS Ian Desmond (121)
LF Matt Kemp (110)
2B Brett Lawrie (96)
C Matt Wieters (79)
3B Maikel Franco (N/A)
vs. LHP
RF Drew Stubbs (109)
SS Ian Desmond (123)
LF Matt Kemp (174)
C Matt Wieters (140)
1B Danny Valencia (134)
2B Brett Lawrie (99)
CF Bryce Harper (90)
DH Wilmer Flores (N/A)
3B Maikel Franco (N/A)
I meant in real life. I think he is closer to being MLB ready than scoops gives him credit for and certainly as close if not closer than those drafted a long time before him.The Best Catch in 100 Years said:
Thus I feel he will contribute to my team over the next four years.
For arguement sake I would intend using him as an occasional DH. His bat is good enough. Given Iggy is out for c.4 months he would now cover at 2nd base getting at least one game a week over that time while also being available as a late inning hitter. That would not halt his progression any more than those picked ouf of AA previously.
There were other picks that were bad for similar reasons (Kyle Crick stands out), no one is disputing that. Still, the guy needs to be playing every day at this point in his career, and I would hesitate to give you much credit if he emerges as a productive MLB player over the next four years.Galway Sox Fan said:
I had kinda assumed that the three "reserve" slots were defacto minor league positions. Or at least that I could stow Aaron Sanchez in a reserve slot, at the expense of some ML depth. I was assuming this fantasy universe would have some form of player development, and if not he could pitch simulated games or I could loan him to a Korean team for a year.
Is that an exploit that undermines the intentions of the exercise? It seems like a valid strategic choice, not too different from, say, drafting Matt Harvey.
Is that an exploit that undermines the intentions of the exercise? It seems like a valid strategic choice, not too different from, say, drafting Matt Harvey.
Yep I was assuming something like this also.Logglobo Vlandignorf said:
Its not like he is going to sit on his ass for the next four years.
If you are assuming that then anybody who is in AAA and picked its blocking their development and is a bad pick.
This is all very subjective. Who is to say a kid would not benefit from MLB exposure and the help of being around veterans rather than hitting ridiculous numbers in the minors.
Because the highest level of baseball he's experienced is A+? AAA (and even AA) are wildly different experiences that speak much better to a person MLB readiness than that. The Jose Fernandezs of the world are very far and few between.Galway Sox Fan said:
That's not really how they're supposed to work IMO. I thought they're supposed to be slots for players that rotate in when someone gets injured. Regardless, unless Scoops feel differently, you're wrong on that second part. No real form of player development, straight to MLB here.Logglobo Vlandignorf said:
Driving ...
Edward Mujica, RP3
Please PM RGB for me. Fix my bolding if it didn't work (On mobile)
Edward Mujica, RP3
Please PM RGB for me. Fix my bolding if it didn't work (On mobile)
Scoops:wibi said:
Regulators, MOUNT UP
It was a clear black night, a clear white moon
Scoops B was on the streets trying to consume
some players for the draft, so they can get some play
just rollin in my ride chillin everyday
Sumner
Just hit the eastside of Fort Myers
on a mission tryin' to find Scoops and have a word
Seen a chart full of picks, ain't no need to whine
all you SOSHers know what's up in the 239
Scoops:
So I hooked a left and see someone playing body snatcher,
Terrisus was picking up another old catcher,
BigMike was sacking the pool like some kind of Vandal
while the TaxMan picked up Yasmani Grandal
Sumner:
For shizzo with Rizzo Kramerica's in bizzo,
And fo sheezy MakMan's pimpin' Odorizzi
With nine on the field and Tyler Clip'
Logglobo's getting ready to do this shit
Scoops:
Kenny F'ing Powers is solving pitcher's mechanics
While Pedroia is mashing for Mr Leskanic
BoredViewer's hoping Ellsbury will find his stroke,
While Grebeck's sending enemies up in Smoak
Sumner:
GalwaySox taking Travis is some kind of larceny,
While bogarting Xander is StabMasterArson
keninten's got the wombat marching into combat
While Fielder's leading 58 right up on that
Scoops:
Beltre's one-knee home runs are making Darwin's fans raucous,
While RGB is counting on Nick Markakis
NJ Sox is counting the bases that Hamilton scoops
while Eck's watchin Jonathan Rufino Jezus Schoop
Sumner:
Dylanmarsh didn't take the time to pass LaRoche,
Toe Nash's Green Mountain boys are gathering Moss,
Alexei's looking sexy making the Gobbler's toes Curll,
While Best Catch is taking Wieters out for a whirl
Scoops:
Youks has Miggy killin' pitchers like Oscar Pistorius
While Farvin's rolling out Didi Gregorius
Wib and Wake fishin for picks like Carp and Trout
While Panda's making BOC's fanbase shout
Sumner
Fenway frank's watching Hanley's shots do some killing
and Jaylach hopes that Elvis's will leave the building
Sumner's chart keeps all of the perps in line
while Scoops rules the draft and keeps it serpentine
Scoops::
But it's getting kind of slow and the draft is draggin'
24 hours is tragic as the rounds start laggin,
Dial down to 12 hours so we won't be late,
Scoops B and SumnerH had to regulate.
In real life when you have multiple teams then thats fine. Our universe does not have that but we apparently assume that by picked on one of these teams a players potential stalls.The Best Catch in 100 Years said:
If we are asuming that a players ability to improve is blocked by being on one of these squads then nobody on AAA or below should be eligible.
No. The minor leaguers who have been picked have mostly been ready to step in and contribute, and will be plugged right into the starting lineup from day one. Neither of these things is true of Travis--he's not MLB-ready, and on your team he won't be getting the reps he needs to get MLB-ready.Galway Sox Fan said:
It would in all likelihood have a disastrous effect on Travis's development to have him warming the bench in MLB for the next year (or two?). Since his next few years in our universe are so drastically different from what he'll be doing in real life (doing what he should be doing, getting reps in the minors), I would be very hesitant to project him as a good major league second-baseman two or three years down the line for your team, even if that's what he ends up turning into for the Tigers.
Ill just have agree to diagree with you on this point.The Best Catch in 100 Years said:
Take Vazquez for example. He qualifies for inclusion by virtue of a solitary at bat in AAA. He will spend all of next season at AAA to develop. He has been picked as a back up catcher here. He will not get the development he needs. Yet his pick was lauded as a great pick up at the time with many disappointed to have missed out on him. There was no question of his development been stalled. There are numerous other examples. You say that the others that have picked are ready to step in. Who says thst they are? Who says that they will succeed? Or would succeed more than Travis if was to be ro be given a go now.
I agree that other teams have done similar stuff and haven't gotten the kind of shit for it that you have, but Travis is also a particularly egregious example. Vazquez is not a good guy to bring up though--he's going to be PW's primary catcher.Galway Sox Fan said:
I generally disagree with the "who knows" sentiment too--certain kinds of players with no MLB experience are more likely to succeed than others, just as certain veterans are more likely to succeed than others. To continue with Vazquez, I've seen multiple well-respected prospect writers stress how close to MLB-ready he is (defensively, at least), and he has good numbers at the higher levels of the minors. There is also a long history of guys with little experience above AA jumping into the majors and having productive careers. You'd be hard pressed to find a guy with as little upper-level experience as Travis going straight into the majors (particularly as a bench player) and going on to have a good career, and I don't think you'll find any respected evaluators who think he could hack it in the majors right now.
Edit: Austin Hedges and maybe (sorry) Max Stassi are better examples of Travis-like picks, though (as far as I remember, don't have time to look up scouting reports now) the defense is supposed to be very far along already in Hedges's case, and Stassi can contribute in MLB right now. Still, serving as a backup seems like a less-than-ideal situation for a young catcher's development.
I agree with you in some respects but I still maintain that assuming no development occurs during the 4 years on our roster is wrong and not the way I viewed the exercise. We try to keep comparing to real life in some aspects and then say our world unique in others. Which is ultimately flawed.The Best Catch in 100 Years said:
Basically I saw the 3 non MLB players as the 3 top prospects within our system and as such the most likely called up in case of injury. Why else would we have 28 man squads when there is only 25 in real life.
Obviously there had to be a cut off somewhere and we have to try and pick 28 players who will cover various injuries. The Iggy injury caused me problems which in real life I would solve by bringing up my best 2nd base prospect and moving Gordon across. I felt that within the paramaters of the game Travis represened that. If we were picking 40 man rosters I still probably would have gone with him here and picked up a short term cover later. He could be an elite 2nd baseman within the 4 years.
As it stands he would get a call up for c4months and then head back as a top prospect. I would argue that that could have the potential of improving him as a player with some Mlb exposure.
But essentially its our contrasting view of how this exercise works is what is the main disagreement and as such I ferl we are going in circles. There are numerous players who fall into this grey area who teams have picked a long time ago and I just felt I was singled out for over the top criticism
Please skip me. Tied up at work with the department of health. It may be awhile before I can pick. Mike
Galway Sox Fan said:
It'll be good fun when we start unveiling our different methods of evaluating each other's teams a year or two from now
The Best Catch in 100 Years said:
It's actually an extremely apt comparison. Except Stubbs K's about 10% more of the time. I guess I'm just not a fan of platoon players.
Edit: The Travis debate. Going to have to agree with Scoops on that. It seems like a pick made because it was possible not because it was best for the team. Yeah, it's great to have a young guy in your system but part of the point of this exercise is to find those young guys who are right on the cusp of major league playing time.
I know I keep saying it, but, I'm going to enjoy the next few years, while most teams here are developing, while mine is winning multiple World Series.