SOSH Running Dogs

fiskful of dollars

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Jul 14, 2005
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Hey guys, need some advice. I'm training for an Ironman triathlon in 2018 (my second). I want to get faster. I run about a 3:20 marathon, 1:30 half marathon for reference. I do routine speed work but usually don't do hill training. I've found that running hills really strengthens my quads and improves my speed. However, every time I do a hill workout I get injured. I'm sitting here with ice packs on both Achilles after a 6x 500m hill workout. I'm not particularly injury prone otherwise (but I am 50..Christ, that sucks). Just starting to train for a year of base training including a few half marathons and at least one half Ironman this season. Right now I'm running about 30-35 miles a week but that will ramp up over the next few weeks to 45-50/wk. Thanks - hope everyone's training is going well. Cold in VA today!
 

fiskful of dollars

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Yeah - not a stupid question. I'm usually very deliberate on downhill stretches and I'm jogging to recover usually on the downhill sections. Good thought, though. My usual runs are on some rolling hills anyway, so I get some hill work in at baseline. Just trying out some new stuff to get a bit faster.
 

SydneySox

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Sep 19, 2005
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I'm working a lot at the moment aiming for an ultra next May, with a coach. Due to my deliberate attempts to head off ITB issues, I'm doing a number of things, including pretty much walking downhill. The guy I'm seeing as a coach/physio made that like a core rule. Maybe even ease off on your training runs?
 

dixielandbandana

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Jul 15, 2005
171
Iowa City/Boston/Michigan
I'd love some advice from our more seasoned runners! I've been a jogger for a few years, and I plodded through 2 half-marathons in the past. I am finally almost at my goal weight, and I've been running a little more, about 25-30 miles a week, with a max so far of 7 miles. I just signed up for a 25k in mid-May. What should my max training distance be? For my halves, I think I trained up to about 11 miles, but those were a few years ago. Would 12-13 work for a 15.5 mile race? Also, what do people eat/drink during long training runs/races? I don't do anything yet, since I don't think 7 miles is enough to need it, but even for the halves, I just drank some water on course and didn't eat anything- would people recommend trying to work in some protein or something during long training runs? Thanks so much!
 

SydneySox

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Sep 19, 2005
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What watches do you guys use? I'm in the market.

I have tiny bird wrists and hate wearing watches normally because I hate the weight/feeling and the size, so I want something small. I don't give a shit about heart rate monitoring. I need good GPS/Sat tracking and I hate technology so I would love if I had a watch that had good connectivity with Strava.

Any recs?
 

SydneySox

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Sep 19, 2005
15,547
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I'd love some advice from our more seasoned runners! I've been a jogger for a few years, and I plodded through 2 half-marathons in the past. I am finally almost at my goal weight, and I've been running a little more, about 25-30 miles a week, with a max so far of 7 miles. I just signed up for a 25k in mid-May. What should my max training distance be? For my halves, I think I trained up to about 11 miles, but those were a few years ago. Would 12-13 work for a 15.5 mile race? Also, what do people eat/drink during long training runs/races? I don't do anything yet, since I don't think 7 miles is enough to need it, but even for the halves, I just drank some water on course and didn't eat anything- would people recommend trying to work in some protein or something during long training runs? Thanks so much!
I'm not a seasoned runner - but don't put yourself down dude, you've done some good runs, you're a runner.

The key is to not overtrain. Just gradually increase your mileage week by week. Also I can't advise heavily enough that you should consider your cadence and pacing. It's all about injury prevention.

It's not a bad idea for you to find a local running coach/physio and ask for just one technique session. They'll help you frame yourself and work up a simple plan and help with some stretching that might help at night.
 

MB's Hidden Ball

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What watches do you guys use? I'm in the market.

I have tiny bird wrists and hate wearing watches normally because I hate the weight/feeling and the size, so I want something small. I don't give a shit about heart rate monitoring. I need good GPS/Sat tracking and I hate technology so I would love if I had a watch that had good connectivity with Strava.

Any recs?
So I just got a Garmin Forerunner 235 and I really like it. It's a tad big--I also suffer from bird wrists--but it doesn't look ridiculous on me. It does monitor heart rate but it does it through the wrist so there's no requirement for a chest strap. It has blue tooth so it will update Strava easily (through the Garmin Connect app); this is actually why I bought this because my old Garmin had a crappy cable connection which required a computer for downloading and which sucked for traveling.

I simply record my runs/heartrate/calories but there's a ton of functionality on this thing which I don't take advantage of; if you ever decide to use your watch for some moderately advanced workout design this would do the trick.

Here's a review: https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2015/11/garmin-fr230-fr235-review.html
 

fiskful of dollars

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Jul 14, 2005
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I have a Garmin 235 and a 920XT. The 920XT is pretty big and is really a triathlon watch but the GPS and overall functionality seems to be much better than my 235. Maybe I just got a lemon. Both do everything you would need re metrics, intervals, etc.
 

fiskful of dollars

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Jul 14, 2005
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Charlottesville, VA
I'd love some advice from our more seasoned runners! I've been a jogger for a few years, and I plodded through 2 half-marathons in the past. I am finally almost at my goal weight, and I've been running a little more, about 25-30 miles a week, with a max so far of 7 miles. I just signed up for a 25k in mid-May. What should my max training distance be? For my halves, I think I trained up to about 11 miles, but those were a few years ago. Would 12-13 work for a 15.5 mile race? Also, what do people eat/drink during long training runs/races? I don't do anything yet, since I don't think 7 miles is enough to need it, but even for the halves, I just drank some water on course and didn't eat anything- would people recommend trying to work in some protein or something during long training runs? Thanks so much!
As you lengthen your training runs it is really important to determine what your fluid/nutritional needs are given the circumstances - course, weather, fitness, etc. Essentially you need to train your body in order to anticipate your electrolyte, nutritional and hydration needs - the only way to do this is to experiment on your longer training runs and find the right balance BEFORE you race. Nothing is worse than finding out on race day that you have miscalculated. For me, I don't do anything for half marathons except for some fluids (unless it's really hot - again your training runs will guide you). For longer runs (over 15 mi for me) I supplement with a GU and Tailwind. For marathons I eat a GU every 5 miles and drink water at next water station to wash those gnarly things down. For triathlons my nutrition plan is much more complex - and boring probably. Good luck!
 

SydneySox

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Sep 19, 2005
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Thanks! - that was actually one I'd looked at.

Battery life is important to me too. I see that unit has up to 16 hours. Do you find that accurate?
 

rbeaud

Member
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Jul 15, 2005
305
Orange, CT
Thanks! - that was actually one I'd looked at.

Battery life is important to me too. I see that unit has up to 16 hours. Do you find that accurate?
I usually run the battery down (still mentally back in the NiCad world!). It gets charged every other week or so as I get ready for Boston. I would agree with the estimated life. Wish I had the cadence and HR features of the 920. Still love my 910 and miss my chunky 305.
 

SydneySox

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Sep 19, 2005
15,547
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I ran 16km with a group on the weekend. I was there to run with my mate, who is training them. I don't run very fast but the people I ran with run really slow. I normally do between 5 to 5.30 m/km but with these guys I was doing 9 to 10 m/km, so about half my speed. It was fun and I enjoyed it. But I was bouncing up and down instead of powering forward.

When I got home though, my calves were pretty sore, but like in that standard muscle soreness 'Day after a marathon' sort of way. Obviously I'd been running so different I was doing mean things to muscles I don't use a lot, with my running usually down through my quads and hammies. I stretched and rolled on my day off then ran 10km last night. It hurt a little for the first few but was fine.

Today, the morning after, they're fucking killing me, like actual stabbing pain which is more than muscle soreness. Apart from hitting the drugz, do you guys know if there's anything I should be concerned by?
 

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
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Sep 20, 2005
5,429
The "I'm not a doctor" caveat applies, but my sense has always been if both calves (or knees, quads, whatever) are the issue it's just overuse/doing something new, and the normal prescription of rest & ice & ibuprofen applies. Pain in just one calf, I'd be more concerned.
 

Gunfighter 09

wants to be caribou ken
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Jul 31, 2005
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MBHB - got the same watch. Like it quite a bit.

Ran the Carlsbad, CA half in 1:52:26. Didn't train enough and I am sore as hell two days later.
 

SydneySox

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Sep 19, 2005
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FYI

I did some damage to my calf due to overpronation which came about as I was running with people who were much slower than I. As I said, I'm not fast, but they were really slow. I enjoyed running with them. But I was bobbing next to them instead of striding out, to slow down, and I wasn't letting the heel hit the ground, mostly toe-strike-bobbing, and it overloaded the calves. I didn't really know it was a thing. I've put so much work into correcting the overstride injuries I suffered last year that it shouldn't be a surprise that if you go too far the other way and overpronate, you're going to do the same fucking thing.

Just thought it was interesting to share. Running really fucking gets you. I wish I was one of you genetically blessed motherfuckers who stride clean.
 

fiskful of dollars

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Calf injuries suck. Foam rolling before and after can really help for soreness and tightness. If you have a tear/pull, well then you're fucked...for a while at least. Hope you're not sidelined for too long. Sometimes these tweaks can be micro tears and heal pretty quickly or never materialize into a more serious injury. Do you wear compression sleeves? They help a ton too. I don't use them every day but when I have a twinge/tightness I find them extremely helpful. Good luck!
 

SydneySox

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Sep 19, 2005
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Yeah I think it's a minor thing... it's mostly gone away. I took a week off. It was more an update because running and all the ways you can hurt yourself doing is continuing to make me laugh (bitterly, in pain).
 

SydneySox

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Sep 19, 2005
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I don't wear the compression socks. I have but I never really noticed a difference. I'm doing 22km tomorrow morning, perhaps I'll put the socks back on.
 

MB's Hidden Ball

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So what do you guys do for leg exercises aside from running? I've lost a bit of weight recently, and I appear to have lost some of my strength too. I have to run a couple of 5Ks this spring, and I'm afraid that my lack of leg strength will interfere with my ability to gain speed. I haven't lifted legs since college (20+ years ago), but I am seriously considering starting again. I'm not worrying about putting on bulk (I lift a couple times a week and I haven't put on any size yet), but I am a bit concerned about overwork.

So what do you guys do? Nothing, lifting, body-weight exercises (lunges, etc), or something else.
 

fiskful of dollars

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Well, I'm primarily doing triathlons now, so cycling/swimming keeps my legs reasonably fit and provides moderate resistance training. BUT - I do get to feeling a bit noodle-y during training season. I really struggle keeping my core strength up. I try to sprinkle in a bit of leg work - including lunges, squats (no weights - except some hand-held dumbbells), planks and some yoga. I need to do more of that - especially as I've gotten older. My running form really suffers if I don't stay on top of some weight training or core work.

I think anyone who is into fitness should augment whatever training program they're doing with at least some weight training. I need to take my own advice here. I often skimp on weight training because I wanna "get my miles in". In the long term I think it has hurt my overall fitness. So, for instance, today I have a 1.5 hour swim followed by a 6 mile tempo run. No lifting. Gonna wake my teenage son up now (I know it's only 1030) and see if he wants to lift before I head out. You guys are an awesome way to stay focused! Keep us posted on what you're doing and if it helps, etc. Good luck!
 

SydneySox

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I just grabbed a new pair of shoes for trails. I'd always been trying to run both road and trail in the same shoe because of $$ but also because I wasn't sure if changing up your shoe was a bad or a good idea. But I'm coming around to the point that a lot of people have several pairs for the conditions.

So I'm using some of the new Hokas. I did 23k on a trail last weekend and I will admit they were pretty fucking sweet.
 

sonofgodcf

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Jul 17, 2005
678
The toilet.
I just grabbed a new pair of shoes for trails. I'd always been trying to run both road and trail in the same shoe because of $$ but also because I wasn't sure if changing up your shoe was a bad or a good idea. But I'm coming around to the point that a lot of people have several pairs for the conditions.

So I'm using some of the new Hokas. I did 23k on a trail last weekend and I will admit they were pretty fucking sweet.
That's a solid run, nice! Are you still thinking of running the Shotover Marathon? I'm excited (terrified), but pretty sure I'm nowhere near the level of conditioning that I should be to run this thing. I've also done almost zero trail runs (NYC is a great place to run overall, but getting in serious hills and trails is a tougher feat). Going to be an interesting day...
 

SydneySox

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Sep 19, 2005
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Ah, it's on my list but so are a few others. If I can do the UTA50 and get through without injury my next running goal is to do enough marathons to gain entry to Boston and complete the circle from when I was a kid handing out cups of water to runners 30 years ago from my front yard while my uncles got wasted and yelled homophobic slurs at all the guys in short shorts. I never dreamed that I, too, might even be abke to aspire to one day wear those shorts and be called horrific names by drunk Irish Americans.

Speaking of New Zealand, though, did you guys hear about what happened in the Tarawera Ultra? Dude smashed like 21 minutes off the course record and finished in 7.23. Ran 102km at 4.20 a km. Absolutely incredible.
 

bostonbeerbelly

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Apr 26, 2008
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The time has come for me to become a runner again!

With less than a total of 100 runs over the last 12 years, I am committed to this year being the year I bring that attribute back to my identity.

Running competitively from the ages of 12-18, getting recruited for college, and then dropping out after the first practice has lead to some deep self loathing over the last decade plus. I have always found myself comparing to the past, training to hard, or just finding excuses to not enjoy the sport I once enjoyed the most.

I have just committed to being a team member on the 12 person, 200 mile Bourbon trail race in October and I think the team aspect of it is just what I need, as I am not someone who wants to let others down.

Today is Day 1. The plan is to enjoy it. No expectations for 30+ days, not timing my runs, no set goals, except to get my ass out the door and one foot in front of the other as many days as my body can handle. I hope to listen to my body this time.

I have always envied this thread. I hope to contribute through the year, and use this as a place I can keep myself honest and share training ideas, and summer race schedules.
 

SydneySox

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Sep 19, 2005
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Yeah, are you in any running groups? I'm in a couple trail ones now (running deep trails can be dangerous) and you always end up meeting the sort of people that take this sort of shit super seriously. It's kind of crazy how big a deal it is for many people.
 

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
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Sep 20, 2005
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SydneySox

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I think you're right... I think the author of the catch out post was correct to think she was trying to post a qualifying time for her to join some select group of runners, not to actually almost win the fucking thing.

82 minutes is a pretty great time for a half marathon so it seems like a tough group to be a part of.
 

GreenMountain

Member
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Nov 4, 2007
122
Maine
The time has come for me to become a runner again!

With less than a total of 100 runs over the last 12 years, I am committed to this year being the year I bring that attribute back to my identity.

Running competitively from the ages of 12-18, getting recruited for college, and then dropping out after the first practice has lead to some deep self loathing over the last decade plus. I have always found myself comparing to the past, training to hard, or just finding excuses to not enjoy the sport I once enjoyed the most.

I have just committed to being a team member on the 12 person, 200 mile Bourbon trail race in October and I think the team aspect of it is just what I need, as I am not someone who wants to let others down.

Today is Day 1. The plan is to enjoy it. No expectations for 30+ days, not timing my runs, no set goals, except to get my ass out the door and one foot in front of the other as many days as my body can handle. I hope to listen to my body this time.

I have always envied this thread. I hope to contribute through the year, and use this as a place I can keep myself honest and share training ideas, and summer race schedules.
Good deal, man. Welcome back to the pain and endorphins. Team element is great for motivation. I did an 8 person Ragnar trail relay last summer and it was an absolute blast. Lifted me out of a training funk and met some great people.
 

GreenMountain

Member
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Nov 4, 2007
122
Maine
That site is fascinating and sort of terrifying. If I ever qualify for Boston, I hope I don't end up on his board.
On the one hand I get what he is doing. And sure, the top 3-10 finishers should be cross-checked, especially if real awards or money are handed out. But for the most part race cheating is inherently self-defeating and not really hurting anyone except the cheater. Unless you are a sociopath, I would imagine that the guilt would more than offset any praise you get from the result.
 

SydneySox

A dash of cool to add the heat
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Sep 19, 2005
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Some people do that stuff and that's part of why they run.

The guys who cut every possible street corner in a half marathon in the city are the best. Congrats, you're saved a minute and you knocked 300m off your total run, hope you got a PB.

What about the people who stop their strava at drink stations or at a piss stop?
 

fiskful of dollars

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Jul 14, 2005
1,851
Charlottesville, VA
The time has come for me to become a runner again!

With less than a total of 100 runs over the last 12 years, I am committed to this year being the year I bring that attribute back to my identity.

Running competitively from the ages of 12-18, getting recruited for college, and then dropping out after the first practice has lead to some deep self loathing over the last decade plus. I have always found myself comparing to the past, training to hard, or just finding excuses to not enjoy the sport I once enjoyed the most.

I have just committed to being a team member on the 12 person, 200 mile Bourbon trail race in October and I think the team aspect of it is just what I need, as I am not someone who wants to let others down.

Today is Day 1. The plan is to enjoy it. No expectations for 30+ days, not timing my runs, no set goals, except to get my ass out the door and one foot in front of the other as many days as my body can handle. I hope to listen to my body this time.

I have always envied this thread. I hope to contribute through the year, and use this as a place I can keep myself honest and share training ideas, and summer race schedules.
Cool! Glad you're back at it. I think it's a great idea to just run without a watch. Sounds like you have the perfect mind-set to make it a long-term thing. Good luck!
 

TallerThanPedroia

Civilly Disobedient
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Jul 19, 2005
16,015
Boston
Welcome back @bostonbeerbelly!

On the one hand I get what he is doing. And sure, the top 3-10 finishers should be cross-checked, especially if real awards or money are handed out. But for the most part race cheating is inherently self-defeating and not really hurting anyone except the cheater. Unless you are a sociopath, I would imagine that the guilt would more than offset any praise you get from the result.
I dunno. I hate the piling on that happens with this stuff, but if he's really found 20 people who cheated to get into Boston last year, that's a lot of squeakers who were robbed of spots. But it'd probably be better if the BAA just hired him to do this privately.

One of these years I'm going to double up Boston and London and will probably end up in his crosshairs :)
 
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GreenMountain

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Nov 4, 2007
122
Maine
Welcome back @bostonbeerbelly!



I dunno. I hate the piling on that happens with this stuff, but if he's really found 20 people who cheated to get into Boston last year, that's a lot of squeakers who were robbed of spots. But it'd probably be better if the BAA just hired him to do this privately.

One of these years I'm going to double up Boston and London and will probably end up in his crosshairs :)
Yeah I suppose there is a deterrent value in preventing that sort of fraud. The vigilante aspect strikes me as creepy, though effective. I agree that it would be better if BAA or a similar organization did the job this well internally.
 

MB's Hidden Ball

Member
SoSH Member
What about the people who stop their strava at drink stations or at a piss stop?
Speaking of Strava...just a reminder to all that GregHarris set up a SOSH running group on Strava.

Does anyone use Strava?

I really like it and find that the dashboard and the running analytics are pretty darn impressive. I'll be moving over to Strava from Daily Mile for the start of 2015. Send along an invite if you enjoy following my never-ending quest to BQ, and my rather lame excuses of why I don't feel like running in inclement weather.

http://www.strava.com/athletes/7046735

I also went ahead and created a running club for the Dogs as an easy way to get us together on there. Feel free to join, or ignore if this doesn't appeal to you.

http://www.strava.com/clubs/SOSH
Here's the link:

http://www.strava.com/clubs/SOSH
 

sonofgodcf

Member
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Jul 17, 2005
678
The toilet.
So my first real foray into trail running was one hell of a truly humbling experience. On a bit of an impulse, I signed up for the Shotover Moonlight Mountain Marathon in Queenstown, NZ. I'd already booked the trip and was really just looking for a road race to run while I trained for Boston. I found this race though and decided I had to do it, especially as I had no idea when my next trip to NZ would be. I'm a complete novice to trail running but thought good fitness and decent speed would overcome the more technical challenges of a trail race. I was so wrong.

The race just crushed me. Some of the most beautiful terrain I've ever seen, although I was in a fair amount of pain at the time to appreciate it. Early on I developed some massive blisters below my big toes (a literal half dollar sized circle of skin fell off my foot when I removed my socks post-race), due to wet conditions (lots of river crossings) mixed with bad form on the downhills. Twice I ran out of water well before aid stations, and I was probably very lucky not to have suffered much worse than I did. I finished my last marathon in 3:07 and was told to expect to at least double my time - instead I ran 8:57 and it was all I could do to maintain a light jog in the last, easiest mile. Post-race I tried to eat a decent meal at the hotel restaurant, only to need to leave as soon as I was served. I barely made it back to my room before I threw up and promptly passed out for the next twelve hours. (Cold green-lipped mussels are delicious for breakfast, so that was a plus.)

That said, this race was awesome. There were less than 200 runners for the full marathon and absolutely no spectators (minus sheep) whatsoever, but this was the most supported I've ever felt while running. The camaraderie from the other runners was unlike anything I'd experienced in normal race. I kept passing (and then being passed, eventually for good) runners that offered their encouragement, advice and at one crucial moment, their water. It was eye-opening how different it all felt compared to my normal races, and the challenge of the course kept it interesting throughout.

Anyway, the race was incredible and it's now a goal to get back there and run it the right way. It's opened my eyes to trail running, to which I obviously didn't fully appreciate before. For anyone that has the means, this race is absolutely worth the effort.
 

SydneySox

A dash of cool to add the heat
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Sep 19, 2005
15,547
The Eastern Suburbs
Well done on finishing! You're obviously fit, dude, that's a great marathon time.

And, isn't the trail running community great? Everyone you see during the run is friendly. I love it. It's not like a road race where people have their heads forward, focused on their times. A lot of people are aiming to get to the end of the trail first, with a good time second.

Congrats!

Come down again and do one with me next year.
 

Jerrygarciaparra

My kid has superpowers
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2001
3,174
Montpelier, VT
Drove down to Hampton Beach NH for a half tomorrow morning. Holed up in a hotel room with a nasty cold and headache. Supposed to be 5 degrees with strong wind gusts sling the shore. I'll see how I feel in the morning but I think I might not run tomorrow.
 

sonofgodcf

Member
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Jul 17, 2005
678
The toilet.
Thanks Syd! I'm definitely going to try and do more trail running (and I will run Shotover again - once I train for it properly), it was a great experience. One big advantage of being on the trail was how much better my legs felt post race. I have a torn labrum in my hip, and it's usually misery after long runs but I never experienced any issues during or after. Certainly the slower pace helps but getting off of pavement and concrete is so nice.

I just won entry into this year's NYC marathon (hooray?) though, so two more marathons still on the calendar this year. Going to be interesting to see how the hip holds up.
 

SydneySox

A dash of cool to add the heat
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Sep 19, 2005
15,547
The Eastern Suburbs
Great stuff. I'm doing the Ultra Trail Australia 50 in a few weeks and then I plan on trying to knock over a few Boston appropriate road marathons. But I'm also strongly considering NZ's Tarawera 62km next Feb...