SOSH Running Dogs

Traut

lost his degree
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
12,750
My Desk
Glad to hear it Kremlin. I'm considering picking up a pair this summer. We'll see. Right now, I run in New Balance 850s (the shoe for severe over pronators) and it works for me. The contrast might be a bit much but I'd love to get some faster runs in on grass this summer.
 

AusTexSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 11, 2005
2,003
Erstwhile North Shore Resident
QUOTE (sass a thon @ Jan 18 2010, 08:32 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2775903
So I signed up for the Eugene Half Marathon in May. It's my last hurrah, as far as half marathons go, before I train for my first full 26.2 this fall. Anyone ever run that race before? Looks like a nice course and it finishes in Hayward Field, so I'm pretty excited. Fingers crossed for one last PR.


Sass,
It's last minute and all but the Austin 3M Half Maarthon is Sunday. Coming down?
 

Kremlin Watcher

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
5,233
Orleans, MA
QUOTE (Trautwein's Degree @ Jan 21 2010, 10:00 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2779637
Glad to hear it Kremlin. I'm considering picking up a pair this summer. We'll see. Right now, I run in New Balance 850s (the shoe for severe over pronators) and it works for me. The contrast might be a bit much but I'd love to get some faster runs in on grass this summer.

Traut - I highly recommend VFFs or barefoot, but you have to research it and be careful. The total lack of support means you have to adjust your gait or risk severe injury. It took my legs and feet months before I was comfortable, and I still have the odd ache and pain from the lack of shoes, but they are in different places than when I ran with shoes. But I find that I am a faster and more efficient runner, generally more comfortable, and my overall leg strength has increased significantly as I use more of my leg muscles, in particular in the lower leg and foot, than I did when wearing conventional shoes. There is a whole school of thought on the efficacy of barefoot running, even for severe cases of pronation and supination, as the lack of shoes over time forces you to adopt a gait more suited to the natural running motion that we evolved with on the African plains all those hundreds of thousands of years ago. Barefoot is slowly but, it seems, surely, curing me of my pronation problem. But it takes time for the body to un-learn what is has been doing for decades.
 

sass a thon

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
2,265
QUOTE (AusTexSoxFan @ Jan 22 2010, 01:44 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2781508
Sass,
It's last minute and all but the Austin 3M Half Maarthon is Sunday. Coming down?


Nope. Took some time off at the holidays to heal some aches and pains and my high mileage now is only at 8ish. My next half isn't until March 14 (Inaugural Rock and Roll Half in Dallas - you should come!). One of these days I want to run this race since everyone says it's insanely fast, but it would require training through the holidays and travel always makes that really difficult. Someday, maybe...

Are you running? If so, good luck!
 

BleacherFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 28, 2003
468
Tewksbury, MA
Well, for me, it was my 3rd solid week of mileage since starting up after the new year (not counting a comeback week of 55 miles to round out the year).

72 miles
63 miles
67 miles

No workouts for me - just easy doubles of mostly 8/3 every day. No workouts except for some easy progression runs - nothing too crazy - for instance this week I did a 8 mile run and miles 5-7 were 6:16,6:06,5:50. Moderate effort but controlled.

I also had my feet tested for imbalance and I found my left foot was putting more pressure on the board that was doing the measuring. I got some medical grade orthotics and I also got some new trainers - Adidas Tempo - nice and light. I think the really heavy Reebok trainers were doing me more harm than good.

This will will be a little on the down side as far as mileage goes (50-60) and then I am targeting the Super 5k on Super bowl Sunday to see where I am as far as fitness goes. I except ugliness - it's just the amount of ugliness.
 

Kremlin Watcher

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
5,233
Orleans, MA
QUOTE (BleacherFan @ Jan 24 2010, 02:36 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2783148
I also had my feet tested for imbalance and I found my left foot was putting more pressure on the board that was doing the measuring. I got some medical grade orthotics and I also got some new trainers - Adidas Tempo - nice and light. I think the really heavy Reebok trainers were doing me more harm than good.

Where does one go to get the feet tested like this? I am pretty certain that I land harder on my right side, which I suspect is a major cause of my injuries. Confirming this via testing would be very helpful in finally resolving the problem.
 

AusTexSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 11, 2005
2,003
Erstwhile North Shore Resident
QUOTE (sass a thon @ Jan 22 2010, 04:59 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2781775
Nope. Took some time off at the holidays to heal some aches and pains and my high mileage now is only at 8ish. My next half isn't until March 14 (Inaugural Rock and Roll Half in Dallas - you should come!). One of these days I want to run this race since everyone says it's insanely fast, but it would require training through the holidays and travel always makes that really difficult. Someday, maybe...

Are you running? If so, good luck!


Yep. It was delayed 40 minutes due to high winds knocking down some of the barricaeds on the course. Did a 3 mile warm up which essentially was running from my house to the start and then ran it in 1:46. My fastest time ever in that race.

I can now honestly say that since I've stopped drinking (for now!) my fitness level has vastly improved in both running and rowing which I also do. I feel great when I exercise... Who knew cutting out the booze would help so much. ;)
 

underhandtofirst

stud who hits bombs
SoSH Member
Jul 25, 2005
1,575
Chelmsford, MA
QUOTE (BleacherFan @ Jan 24 2010, 02:36 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2783148
This will will be a little on the down side as far as mileage goes (50-60) and then I am targeting the Super 5k on Super bowl Sunday to see where I am as far as fitness goes. I except ugliness - it's just the amount of ugliness.


Good luck in this race. You probably be in the mix for the win based on times in recent years. That may help pull you along a bit.

QUOTE (AusTexSoxFan @ Jan 25 2010, 11:23 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2785710
Yep. It was delayed 40 minutes due to high winds knocking down some of the barricaeds on the course. Did a 3 mile warm up which essentially was running from my house to the start and then ran it in 1:46. My fastest time ever in that race.

I can now honestly say that since I've stopped drinking (for now!) my fitness level has vastly improved in both running and rowing which I also do. I feel great when I exercise... Who knew cutting out the booze would help so much. ;)


Congrats on the race time. Curious on the warmup, as I try all sorts of different ones looking for the best approach. I wonder if I run too little before some races sometimes. You said you ran 3 miles, how did you break it up as far as pace goes?
 

sass a thon

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
2,265
QUOTE (AusTexSoxFan @ Jan 25 2010, 10:23 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2785710
Yep. It was delayed 40 minutes due to high winds knocking down some of the barricaeds on the course. Did a 3 mile warm up which essentially was running from my house to the start and then ran it in 1:46. My fastest time ever in that race.

I can now honestly say that since I've stopped drinking (for now!) my fitness level has vastly improved in both running and rowing which I also do. I feel great when I exercise... Who knew cutting out the booze would help so much. ;)


Congrats! A dozen or so of my friends were there and when I saw all of their facebook status updates about the delay, I was worried about the wind on the course. But they all PR'd, so it sounds like it was a great day for everyone.

Wow, a 3 mile warmup sounds long to me, but obviously it worked out for you. It was always took me a few miles into a race before I felt comfortable. A superfast friend of mine who qualified for Boston told me that the key was a handful of strides (maybe 100 meters or so) done at first at a comfortable pace and then at race pace. I've done this before my last 2 half marathons and I felt great from the start. I just wish it hadn't taken me so long to realize how much difference a warm-up could make.
 

Traut

lost his degree
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
12,750
My Desk
QUOTE (AusTexSoxFan @ Jan 25 2010, 11:23 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2785710
I can now honestly say that since I've stopped drinking (for now!) my fitness level has vastly improved in both running and rowing which I also do. I feel great when I exercise... Who knew cutting out the booze would help so much. ;)


Great job!

Does anyone else find that they drink less while running? I was never a big drinker. By SoSH standards, at my peak I was a
teetotaler. I'd probably drink the equivalent of a 6 pack per week. I was a wine for dinner kind of guy. Over the past year, my drinking is now down to a glass of wine and a beer per week. I don't crave it at all.
 

AusTexSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 11, 2005
2,003
Erstwhile North Shore Resident
QUOTE (underhandtofirst @ Jan 25 2010, 10:30 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2785723
Congrats on the race time. Curious on the warmup, as I try all sorts of different ones looking for the best approach. I wonder if I run too little before some races sometimes. You said you ran 3 miles, how did you break it up as far as pace goes?


Thanks y'all!

As for the warmup, I probably started at around a 10 minute mile for the first mile and a half and worked towards a 9:15 - 9:30 pace by the time the race was suppose to start. I was hoping to time it right so that I would basically go straight from the warmup to the race but the 40 minute delay threw a wrench in that plan.

Ya know, I noticed that as I've gotten older (now 33), a lengthier warmup in running and rowing seem to be the key to a good workout/race.

And like Traut said, am not really missing the booze as much. I stopped drinking so I wouldn't be hungover or 'fuzzy' the next day while taking care of my 18 month old daughter. But what has also happened is that I've lost about 5-10 pounds and feel so much stronger when I exercise.
 

BleacherFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 28, 2003
468
Tewksbury, MA
QUOTE (Kremlin Watcher @ Jan 24 2010, 03:03 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2783184
Where does one go to get the feet tested like this? I am pretty certain that I land harder on my right side, which I suspect is a major cause of my injuries. Confirming this via testing would be very helpful in finally resolving the problem.


I know very little about this - I sort of just jumped up on the machine and it showed my imbalances :)

I looked a little deeper and it looks to be one of these Istep machines (http://www.harborshoes.com/i-step.htm). The brand of inserts I got were Lynco. Your best bet might be to call some local running stores and see if they offer this service. I got it done at Whirlaway up here in Methuen.

Have you had a traditional gait analysis? This will tell you some basics like whether you're a neutral, over/uner pronatar also.

QUOTE
Good luck in this race. You probably be in the mix for the win based on times in recent years. That may help pull you along a bit.

Thanks! Are you planning on running this as a tempo or anything? How's the running coming?

QUOTE
Yep. It was delayed 40 minutes due to high winds knocking down some of the barricaeds on the course. Did a 3 mile warm up which essentially was running from my house to the start and then ran it in 1:46. My fastest time ever in that race.

Yes, awesome job espicially given that "audible" you were given :) What's next on the radar for you?

Dave
 

Kremlin Watcher

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
5,233
Orleans, MA
QUOTE (BleacherFan @ Jan 29 2010, 07:24 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2791388
Have you had a traditional gait analysis? This will tell you some basics like whether you're a neutral, over/uner pronatar also.

Thanks. I think I have it figured out more or less. I don't have a pronating/supinating problem anymore as I have switched to barefoot running, and you just can't pronate or supinate while barefoot (or at least I can't). My problem is more of a historic imbalance between my left and right sides that has caused me to land significantly harder on my right foot than my left, which is the ultimate cause of my (now rehabbed) injuries. The switch to barefoot (or VFFs if it's too cold) and to a mid-foot gait has allowed me to address that more easily as I can feel my gait much better and make adjustments. I've also done some serious core work to re-balance my body, but that will take years to get fully done.

In any case, I wanted to ask you something. In doing research on barefoot/minimalist running, I found an interesting proposition (which may or may not be totally true, but seems to make sense): one doesn't naturally pronate or supinate from childhood, and the cause of gait problems like these is the wearing of shoes, which leads to the atrophy of the muscles in the feet that are responsible for balance and support. I have read anecdotal evidence of barefoot running resolving pronating/supinating problems. Would you ever consider a partial or total conversion to barefoot/minimalist (i.e. VFF) running to try to build the muscles in your feet back up? It seems to have done wonders for my injury problems, although it takes a lot of time to get used to and you end up working muscles and joints that have been underused for a long time. I am writing this as I sit with my feet on ice after a hard week of barefoot running, but it's just underused muscles and joints becoming accustomed to the new gait and range of motion. Think about it. There's a lot of interesting research being done right now on the topic.
 

underhandtofirst

stud who hits bombs
SoSH Member
Jul 25, 2005
1,575
Chelmsford, MA
I'm starting up running again this weekend. My last run was December 6th, so it has been a long time. In some ways I really didnt miss it. What I did miss was the feeling of running smoothly and getting better. I havent had that since last summer. When I start to get that feeling again I'll be very happy.

Plan is for easy 15-20 min sessions on the treadmill for a couple weeks. If I can build it up to 30 mins with no issues then I'll try the roads. The hip doesnt hurt anymore, but it doesnt feel 100%.

I hope to get out on one of these real cold mornings like today (< 10F outside). It is a real rush to be out there beating the weather.
 

AusTexSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 11, 2005
2,003
Erstwhile North Shore Resident
QUOTE (BleacherFan @ Jan 29 2010, 06:24 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2791388
Yes, awesome job espicially given that "audible" you were given :) What's next on the radar for you?

Dave


Much obliged...

Got the Austin Marathon coming up in two weeks (Feb. 14). Have run that the last two years. Did a 4:13 in 2008 and a 4:06 last year. Would love to go sub 4:00 this year.

I tell myself that if it's a cloudy and cool/cold day, I can pull off sub 4 hrs. The problem here in Texas is that it can very easily be 60-70 degrees by 10am or so, which is right smack dab in the middle of the second half fo the race.

But overall, I like my chances.
 

underhandtofirst

stud who hits bombs
SoSH Member
Jul 25, 2005
1,575
Chelmsford, MA
QUOTE (AusTexSoxFan @ Jan 29 2010, 01:39 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2791857
Much obliged...

Got the Austin Marathon coming up in two weeks (Feb. 14). Have run that the last two years. Did a 4:13 in 2008 and a 4:06 last year. Would love to go sub 4:00 this year.

I tell myself that if it's a cloudy and cool/cold day, I can pull off sub 4 hrs. The problem here in Texas is that it can very easily be 60-70 degrees by 10am or so, which is right smack dab in the middle of the second half fo the race.

But overall, I like my chances.


A few years ago I ran 1:46 in Feb and then 3:38 in Oct with appropriate training and tapers for each. Obviously I had a lot of time to train in between, but you ran your HM in the middle of marathon training so you could probably go even faster if you were targeting the HM.

I like your chances of going sub 4 if you stay in control early in the race.
 

sass a thon

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
2,265
QUOTE (underhandtofirst @ Jan 29 2010, 12:53 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2791876
A few years ago I ran 1:46 in Feb and then 3:38 in Oct with appropriate training and tapers for each. Obviously I had a lot of time to train in between, but you ran your HM in the middle of marathon training so you could probably go even faster if you were targeting the HM.

I like your chances of going sub 4 if you stay in control early in the race.


This reminds me of a question I have and something my running friends and I debate quite a bit. Do you think this reasoning holds true for a first time marathoner?

My half PR is 1:45 but I'm afraid to aim for a sub-4 on my first marathon. I want to do well, but I also want to be realistic and just survive the thing. I was thinking of aiming for something like 4:15-4:30 and then, once I have one marathon under my belt, trying to get closer to 4 and eventually under 4. Am I being too conservative or not?
 

BleacherFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 28, 2003
468
Tewksbury, MA
QUOTE (sass a thon @ Jan 29 2010, 03:06 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2791978
This reminds me of a question I have and something my running friends and I debate quite a bit. Do you think this reasoning holds true for a first time marathoner?

My half PR is 1:45 but I'm afraid to aim for a sub-4 on my first marathon. I want to do well, but I also want to be realistic and just survive the thing. I was thinking of aiming for something like 4:15-4:30 and then, once I have one marathon under my belt, trying to get closer to 4 and eventually under 4. Am I being too conservative or not?


I think it's a complex question and depends on a lot - on paper, a 1:45 comes out to be a ~3:50 marathon (multiply x 2 and add 10%). Would you consider yourself in better shape then when you ran the 1:45? How's your training been in your buildup to the marathon? How's the marathon course compared to the half marathon course?

Depending on if you've gotten stronger/faster, I would go out and try to hit the half in 1:45 and see how you feel. If you're feeling good at that point, don't go too crazy, maybe hold that pace for about 7 more miles and then push it the last 10k. There is no better feeling than passing people towards the end of the marathon.

There is plenty of time in a marathon to change strategy. If you're not feeling so hot, then slow down a little bit the 2nd half. Bottom line, I would try to split the 1/2 at your PR and see how you're feeling.

Dave
 

underhandtofirst

stud who hits bombs
SoSH Member
Jul 25, 2005
1,575
Chelmsford, MA
QUOTE (sass a thon @ Jan 29 2010, 03:06 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2791978
This reminds me of a question I have and something my running friends and I debate quite a bit. Do you think this reasoning holds true for a first time marathoner?

My half PR is 1:45 but I'm afraid to aim for a sub-4 on my first marathon. I want to do well, but I also want to be realistic and just survive the thing. I was thinking of aiming for something like 4:15-4:30 and then, once I have one marathon under my belt, trying to get closer to 4 and eventually under 4. Am I being too conservative or not?


Sass, when I ran 1:46 it was the first time I ran over 11 miles in my life. That marathon later in the year was my first. I probably could have gone faster than 3:38 if I hadnt gone out a bit too quick. I went through the half in 1:47 and felt great, I picked up the pace for the next couple miles and got crushed. I went from running 8:00-8:10 all the way to 9:00 around the 23 mile mark.

I think 4:00 might be a little conservative for you, but it wouldnt be an awful thing to go out targeting that pace and picking it up gradually after 10+. As you prepare for the race you'll get a decent feel what pace you can handle based on your tempo runs and even some of your longer runs.

Those time conversion charts really dont work for me without adjusting the results a bit. I'm much better at shorter distances so I have to be careful when converting to longer ones. For example, I ran a really nice 5k in 19:39 about 6 weeks before my marathon PR of 3:19. The charts said I should have been close to 3:10 but the 3:19 was about a good as I could do that day as I ran identical times for each half. So basically, be careful with those conversions, just pay attention to your training paces and you'll have a really good idea how fast you can run.
 

Traut

lost his degree
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
12,750
My Desk
QUOTE (sass a thon @ Jan 29 2010, 03:06 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2791978
My half PR is 1:45 but I'm afraid to aim for a sub-4 on my first marathon. I want to do well, but I also want to be realistic and just survive the thing. I was thinking of aiming for something like 4:15-4:30 and then, once I have one marathon under my belt, trying to get closer to 4 and eventually under 4. Am I being too conservative or not?


You can do it! Unless you're looking to qualify for Boston, place, or set a PR, how much does your time really matter? The way I look at it, will my life be any better or worse if I run a 4:30 marathon as opposed to a 4:45 marathon?
 

sass a thon

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
2,265
QUOTE (Trautwein's Degree @ Jan 29 2010, 02:43 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2792031
You can do it! Unless you're looking to qualify for Boston, place, or set a PR, how much does your time really matter? The way I look at it, will my life be any better or worse if I run a 4:30 marathon as opposed to a 4:45 marathon?


I'd like to agree with this in theory, but I'm super competitive with myself. I never thought I could be a runner and now that I am, I am pretty driven to do it as well as I possibly can.

Thanks for the advice, all. I'll reevaluate my goals after my 20 mile run and see how I feel.
 

BleacherFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 28, 2003
468
Tewksbury, MA
QUOTE (Kremlin Watcher @ Jan 29 2010, 09:40 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2791479
In any case, I wanted to ask you something. In doing research on barefoot/minimalist running, I found an interesting proposition (which may or may not be totally true, but seems to make sense): one doesn't naturally pronate or supinate from childhood, and the cause of gait problems like these is the wearing of shoes, which leads to the atrophy of the muscles in the feet that are responsible for balance and support. I have read anecdotal evidence of barefoot running resolving pronating/supinating problems. Would you ever consider a partial or total conversion to barefoot/minimalist (i.e. VFF) running to try to build the muscles in your feet back up? It seems to have done wonders for my injury problems, although it takes a lot of time to get used to and you end up working muscles and joints that have been underused for a long time. I am writing this as I sit with my feet on ice after a hard week of barefoot running, but it's just underused muscles and joints becoming accustomed to the new gait and range of motion. Think about it. There's a lot of interesting research being done right now on the topic.


Sorry I completely missed this somehow. This is just complete speculation on my part but I feel that the earlier you start running minimalist/bf running, the better. It's not like all these kids in poor countries in East Africa are thrown Nikes when they start running - running is a way of life and barefoot is the only way. In theory I agree with your statement on the cause of gait problems - sneakers. That's just my .02$ and the later in life you start a 'conversion' the tougher it can be.

That being said, would I consider it for building up muscles? I would consider a very minimilist program - maybe a step above VFF's. In fact, I generally choose light trainers (10-11oz) over heavier shoes - luckily I am as neutral as they come so I can get away with it. As far as a migration to anything VFF/BF, I just don't have the alternative weather/running materials to do it. In the snow do you still use the VFFs? What about extreme cold? How about long term studys on this type of program on asphalt/concrete which are where I run 90%+ on.
 

Kremlin Watcher

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
5,233
Orleans, MA
QUOTE (BleacherFan @ Jan 30 2010, 08:04 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2792781
That being said, would I consider it for building up muscles? I would consider a very minimilist program - maybe a step above VFF's. In fact, I generally choose light trainers (10-11oz) over heavier shoes - luckily I am as neutral as they come so I can get away with it. As far as a migration to anything VFF/BF, I just don't have the alternative weather/running materials to do it. In the snow do you still use the VFFs? What about extreme cold? How about long term studys on this type of program on asphalt/concrete which are where I run 90%+ on.

No question that it takes time to build up the foot and calf muscles for barefoot. But it's like any form of unfamiliar exercise - it takes time for your body to get used to it. And the point is that the muscles it works, in particular the calves and the feet, are the ones that minimize foot impact, prevent or mitigate pronating, and reduce injury risk.

As for the cold and hard surfaces - I just deal with it. I don't run in the snow in general (we don't get that much here), but I'll use the VFFs when it's freezing or below. The soles of my feet get a little numb after a while, but it's not that bad on a reasonably smooth surface. The Boston Globe published an article I think on Wednesday or Thursday about barefoot running, and the study that was cited made the claim that as long as your feet can handle the surface (i.e. not get sliced open by broken glass), the hardness of the surface is irrelevant, which is the point of going barefoot: your gait, and in particular your landing, serves to minimize the impact and you absorb less shock, making it easier on your legs. I run mainly on asphalt and find it pretty comfortable once the initial blisters and bruising heal.
 

Traut

lost his degree
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
12,750
My Desk
Any thoughts on a good nutrition/exercise book or a website? Looking to run strong not lose weight.
 

Daubach is my Daddy

Mo the Boozehound's bitchboy
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jun 6, 2002
1,318
The 7 yard line
Did my second race today. 4 miles, 33:56. Last race I did 5 miles at 9:03 pace, so nice to see some improvement. Felt really good the whole way too. Did the last mile in like 7:50. My Garmin was a little off, so I don't know my exact splits. I started it late because I accidentally had the bezel locked. Oops.
 

Marceline

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2002
6,441
Canton, MA
Did the Krispy Kreme Challenge for the 2nd time over the weekend. The race is 2.3 miles, stop to eat a dozen donuts, then 2.3 miles (slightly longer distance than last year).

Finished in 46:30. 37:40 for the running part and just under 9 minutes for the donuts. Huge improvement from last year, felt really good to finish in that time even though my running isn't really where it was last fall.

Also got some great comments on the VFFs during the race.

Next up will be the NYC Half Marathon in March.
 

Kremlin Watcher

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
5,233
Orleans, MA
QUOTE (Joe Sixpack @ Feb 8 2010, 09:35 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2804953
Did the Krispy Kreme Challenge for the 2nd time over the weekend. The race is 2.3 miles, stop to eat a dozen donuts, then 2.3 miles (slightly longer distance than last year).

Finished in 46:30. 37:40 for the running part and just under 9 minutes for the donuts. Huge improvement from last year, felt really good to finish in that time even though my running isn't really where it was last fall.

Also got some great comments on the VFFs during the race.

Next up will be the NYC Half Marathon in March.

You ate a dozen donuts and then immediately ran two miles? They should call it the vomit challenge. You probably consumed more calories than you used. That's pretty funny.

But seriously, it's great when you are improving and feeling better. Do you think wearing the VFFs is a factor in your improvement?
 

BleacherFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 28, 2003
468
Tewksbury, MA
QUOTE (Joe Sixpack @ Feb 8 2010, 09:35 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2804953
Did the Krispy Kreme Challenge for the 2nd time over the weekend. The race is 2.3 miles, stop to eat a dozen donuts, then 2.3 miles (slightly longer distance than last year).

Finished in 46:30. 37:40 for the running part and just under 9 minutes for the donuts. Huge improvement from last year, felt really good to finish in that time even though my running isn't really where it was last fall.

Also got some great comments on the VFFs during the race.

Next up will be the NYC Half Marathon in March.


Holy shit that's funny. I chose a more traditional 5k on Sunday to see where the hell my fitness was. I averaged about 68 mpw for January and started my PT January 1st. I did nothing right prepping for this race - alcohol the day before, no water the previous day or day of race and was getting over a head cold. I had very little expectations going in - if I could break 17 (5:30's) I would be happy.

1st mile goes out and there are four of us - first 400 meters were slow and then a teammate of mine picks it up and we all go witj him. Right before the 1st "hill", I push up and maintain the pace up the hill. This ultimately drops two guys off a little leaving me and one other (Mile 1 was 5:2X). For me, usually the 2nd mile in a 5k is a huge drop off. I pushed the pace a little more and we both went through Mile 2 in about 10:30 or so, making Mile 2 like 5:10 or so. I made a few small moves to try to shake him between 2 and 3 but he was just stronger. I also got a massive side stich at about 2.5. With about 600 meters to go, he puts a massive move on me (20-30 yards) which I wasn't prepared for. I settled for 2nd in 16:40 - very happy with the fitness and happy with some of the mental stuff (surges,etc). I am only off 10 seconds from my Rhody shitstorm last June so I'm happy where I am right now. The race had headwinds in both directions (don't know how that happens) so I figure with the weather also, maybe it drops me 10-20 more seconds.

Dave
 

underhandtofirst

stud who hits bombs
SoSH Member
Jul 25, 2005
1,575
Chelmsford, MA
QUOTE (BleacherFan @ Feb 9 2010, 06:06 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2805188
Holy shit that's funny. I chose a more traditional 5k on Sunday to see where the hell my fitness was. I averaged about 68 mpw for January and started my PT January 1st. I did nothing right prepping for this race - alcohol the day before, no water the previous day or day of race and was getting over a head cold. I had very little expectations going in - if I could break 17 (5:30's) I would be happy.

1st mile goes out and there are four of us - first 400 meters were slow and then a teammate of mine picks it up and we all go witj him. Right before the 1st "hill", I push up and maintain the pace up the hill. This ultimately drops two guys off a little leaving me and one other (Mile 1 was 5:2X). For me, usually the 2nd mile in a 5k is a huge drop off. I pushed the pace a little more and we both went through Mile 2 in about 10:30 or so, making Mile 2 like 5:10 or so. I made a few small moves to try to shake him between 2 and 3 but he was just stronger. I also got a massive side stich at about 2.5. With about 600 meters to go, he puts a massive move on me (20-30 yards) which I wasn't prepared for. I settled for 2nd in 16:40 - very happy with the fitness and happy with some of the mental stuff (surges,etc). I am only off 10 seconds from my Rhody shitstorm last June so I'm happy where I am right now. The race had headwinds in both directions (don't know how that happens) so I figure with the weather also, maybe it drops me 10-20 more seconds.

Dave


Nice run. I like that second mile in that race, the gradual downhill gets you into a nice rhythm and keeps the turnover up. Looking at the weather history you had wind gusts near 20mph almost directly in your face the last 1.5 miles and there isnt anything almost that road to block the wind.
 

AusTexSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 11, 2005
2,003
Erstwhile North Shore Resident
Marathon week!

Did a nice brisk seven miles on Sunday and then a rowing workout on the lake this morning. Thinking that I may just shut it down until race day on Sunday. Thoughts? Maybe squeeze in a short 2 or 3 miler on Thursday?

Or maybe just eat a dozen Krispy Kremes every day! LOL.....
 

underhandtofirst

stud who hits bombs
SoSH Member
Jul 25, 2005
1,575
Chelmsford, MA
QUOTE (AusTexSoxFan @ Feb 9 2010, 01:25 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2805628
Marathon week!

Did a nice brisk seven miles on Sunday and then a rowing workout on the lake this morning. Thinking that I may just shut it down until race day on Sunday. Thoughts? Maybe squeeze in a short 2 or 3 miler on Thursday?

Or maybe just eat a dozen Krispy Kremes every day! LOL.....


That may be a little too much time off. A lot of programs I read recommend something on the order of 7 miles about 4 days out. Do 2 miles easy, then 2 at marathon pace, then another 2-3 easy cooldown. Its a nice way to get soem quality in but not too much to wear you out. You also get to work on dialing in your pace and see how you feel. I've always done about 2 miles the day before at something like 2 mins over MP just to loosen up.
 

BleacherFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 28, 2003
468
Tewksbury, MA
QUOTE (underhandtofirst @ Feb 9 2010, 09:57 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2805332
Nice run. I like that second mile in that race, the gradual downhill gets you into a nice rhythm and keeps the turnover up. Looking at the weather history you had wind gusts near 20mph almost directly in your face the last 1.5 miles and there isnt anything almost that road to block the wind.


Thanks - yes, I wanted to push a little going up that first hill to separate the field a little bit and build some momentum into that 2nd mile. More miles and smiles for me - and I will be starting to incorporate some workouts. On Tuesday I did 10x320m down a straight road in my neighborhood averaging like 4:50 or so. I just want to work on shortening my stride and working on turnover more.
 

rbeaud

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
348
Orange, CT
QUOTE (underhandtofirst @ Feb 9 2010, 09:57 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2805332
Nice run. I like that second mile in that race, the gradual downhill gets you into a nice rhythm and keeps the turnover up. Looking at the weather history you had wind gusts near 20mph almost directly in your face the last 1.5 miles and there isnt anything almost that road to block the wind.


So what is the approach to hills with respect to stride or anything else important? I read something that indicated shorter strides are better...as you suggest? I can never seem to synch up arms and legs with the shorter strides and get all discombobulated. I've found it hard to run "with" the hill even though there are some good ones for practice on my normal paths. While I don't want to become a runaway train on the downhill, it's free speed if handled properly.

The St. Pat's races are coming up and I remember struggling in New Haven. It has a long stretch (one mile or so) up/down the same hill. Last year I started too hot and paid for it. This isn't going to be a steady pace race, so I figure to add +20(?) sec on the uphill and target an 18 min 5k.
 

rbeaud

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
348
Orange, CT
QUOTE (BleacherFan @ Feb 9 2010, 06:06 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2805188
1st mile goes out and there are four of us - first 400 meters were slow and then a teammate of mine picks it up and we all go witj him. Right before the 1st "hill", I push up and maintain the pace up the hill. This ultimately drops two guys off a little leaving me and one other (Mile 1 was 5:2X). For me, usually the 2nd mile in a 5k is a huge drop off. I pushed the pace a little more and we both went through Mile 2 in about 10:30 or so, making Mile 2 like 5:10 or so. I made a few small moves to try to shake him between 2 and 3 but he was just stronger. I also got a massive side stich at about 2.5. With about 600 meters to go, he puts a massive move on me (20-30 yards) which I wasn't prepared for. I settled for 2nd in 16:40 - very happy with the fitness and happy with some of the mental stuff (surges,etc). I am only off 10 seconds from my Rhody shitstorm last June so I'm happy where I am right now. The race had headwinds in both directions (don't know how that happens) so I figure with the weather also, maybe it drops me 10-20 more seconds.

Dave


Great to hear that you are back in the swing. And you beat your target, so that should be a good confidence boost that things are looking up. What seems more impressive to me is that you were ready to duke it out in the race; nice work! Here's to more success in 2010.
 

rbeaud

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
348
Orange, CT
Perhaps there is something I should be learning from my recent few weeks of running, so I'll share.

Leading up to my last race, I was running in the flats of FL at 25 secs/k faster than usual. My thighs seemed to take it harder as they were sore up until the last few runs. The week of the race, I put in a full week of running (34M) anticipating that the weekend would be family catch up time (it was business travel). My wife suprised me by asking what time we should awaken the next morning. It was a 5M so I worried about fading late. The first 1.5M was downhill and at a sub 6:00 pace. Not bad considering I was contemplating dropping out at 1M. I gritted through to the short downhill at the start of mile three. Then comes the steep uphill into 4 and a moderate hill to 4.5. Thing is, this race covers much of my usual routes and I couldn't let this uphill section get me. So I bore down and kept up the pace. It felt really good (mentally) to resolve that I would keep up the pace on this hill. Enough so that the last mile was at a good pace and I finished in 30:10, only :20 sec off my target time per McMillan. This got me to wondering what my performance could have been on a normal taper week (20-ish miles). Maybe nothing and it was the decision at 3.5 to run hard?

And I very nearly caught the group of three that I had lagged by 20m or so for most of the race. Lately that seems to be the case; I'm behind a small group of front runners some of whom I pass, some I don't. Maybe I should be running with them so at the finish there isn't a deficit to make up? In short, while I cannot complain at the overall performance in my races, I think I may not be running aggressively enough. The chicken in me points out that I've not crashed and burned short of the finish line thereby saving the family from embarassement!

Someone will probably point out that I've promised several times before to incorporate more intervals...I'm working on it :) Though I seem to enjoy tempo runs more than intervals when there is enough flat road. It would be nice to have some live running partners and I may try a new running club; mine seems intent on comeraderie. Which is great too, I just feel the need to improve.

Cheers,

Roland
 

Kremlin Watcher

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
5,233
Orleans, MA
QUOTE (AusTexSoxFan @ Feb 12 2010, 04:23 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2810252
About to walk out the door to get my race packet for Sunday's marathon.

Will be sure to check back with y'all afterwards for a report.

Good luck. Hope the course and the weather cooperate.

Are you racing for a time or participating for the enjoyment of it?

I am in the middle of prep for participating in Boston, and am learning the hard way how an older body responds (or doesn't, in some cases) to intense marathon training. Will be interested to know how it goes. Take notes while you're running so you can give us a detailed report!
 

Traut

lost his degree
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
12,750
My Desk
QUOTE (AusTexSoxFan @ Feb 12 2010, 04:23 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2810252
About to walk out the door to get my race packet for Sunday's marathon.

Will be sure to check back with y'all afterwards for a report.


Have a great run. Good luck. Can't wait to hear back.
 

BleacherFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 28, 2003
468
Tewksbury, MA
QUOTE (AusTexSoxFan @ Feb 12 2010, 04:23 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2810252
About to walk out the door to get my race packet for Sunday's marathon.

Will be sure to check back with y'all afterwards for a report.


Good luck, get some rest and I hope the weather cooperates!

QUOTE
And I very nearly caught the group of three that I had lagged by 20m or so for most of the race. Lately that seems to be the case; I'm behind a small group of front runners some of whom I pass, some I don't. Maybe I should be running with them so at the finish there isn't a deficit to make up? In short, while I cannot complain at the overall performance in my races, I think I may not be running aggressively enough. The chicken in me points out that I've not crashed and burned short of the finish line thereby saving the family from embarassement!


Same here - until you are willing to crash and burn, it's touch to know you're giving it your all. I struggle with this, especially in the Grand Prix series. Part lack of confidence, part afraid to fail but sometimes I feel I need to see a shrink :)

20 meters is a lot of distance to make up - especially towards the end of the race unless you've really help back. I know a lot of people who will go out like gangbusters the first mile to establish that 20-30 meter lead and then hold on for a win.

QUOTE
It would be nice to have some live running partners and I may try a new running club; mine seems intent on comeraderie. Which is great too, I just feel the need to improve.


My first running club was this way - more social than competitive. It really makes a difference - when I joined a more competitive club with workouts I noticed the differences result wise.
 

AusTexSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 11, 2005
2,003
Erstwhile North Shore Resident
Hey everyone!

A great day yesterday. Finished in 3:56 and met my goal of breaking four hours. First time I have ever done that.

So yesterday turned out to be a good day weather-wise. Temp at the start was clear and 43 degrees, but I knew it would be warming up as the day got later and it did. It was 60 when I finished.... but no wind. That was HUGE.

There were two things that I did which were key to my breaking 4 hrs I believe.

1. Instead of starting beind the 4 hr pace group like I had done the previous 2 years, I started with the 3:45/3:50 pace groups and it paid huge dividends. It wasn't as crowded and I got into a rhythmn so much earlier. I found my pace right around mile one and just rode that pretty much the whole way.

2. I stopped and stretched my hamstrings at mile 10 and again at mile 17. It was literally just 30 seconds worth but I think it made a huge difference. I didn't tighten up until the last 3-4 miles which are hellish anyways.

When I got to mile 21, I actually had caught back up with the 3:50 pace group and I knew then that as long as I didn't stop, I would break 4 hrs.

I have to say though the last three miles were hell. I had gone so strong for 23 but then my body started shutting down. I just pumped my arms as much as I could and tried to focus on each step. Those mile markers seem to take forever though to reach!

Hit the line with the clock reading 3:59:27 and knew that it had taken me about 3 minutes to get to the starting line back at the beginning. A great feeling indeed.


As for my prep last week, I did a nice comfortable 3 miles on Thursday and that was it.
 

BleacherFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 28, 2003
468
Tewksbury, MA
QUOTE (AusTexSoxFan @ Feb 15 2010, 11:38 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2812915
Hey everyone!

A great day yesterday. Finished in 3:56 and met my goal of breaking four hours. First time I have ever done that.

So yesterday turned out to be a good day weather-wise. Temp at the start was clear and 43 degrees, but I knew it would be warming up as the day got later and it did. It was 60 when I finished.... but no wind. That was HUGE.

There were two things that I did which were key to my breaking 4 hrs I believe.

1. Instead of starting beind the 4 hr pace group like I had done the previous 2 years, I started with the 3:45/3:50 pace groups and it paid huge dividends. It wasn't as crowded and I got into a rhythmn so much earlier. I found my pace right around mile one and just rode that pretty much the whole way.


Awesome job - I'm glad you didn't start too conservative and stuck with the faster pace group. Enjoy your post race rest - take a couple of weeks off from running. And yes there isn't much more humbling than miles 23 to 26 in a marathon...

Dave
 

Traut

lost his degree
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
12,750
My Desk
Reading "Born To Run". If you're reading this thread, you'll probably like the book. The race stories are very well written. On the downside of things, I find parts of the book very preachy about the whole barefoot thing. It's kind of a little Michael Moore-ish and it turns me off.
 

underhandtofirst

stud who hits bombs
SoSH Member
Jul 25, 2005
1,575
Chelmsford, MA
QUOTE (AusTexSoxFan @ Feb 16 2010, 10:39 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2814097
Thanks fellers!


Sorry I'm late to the party. Congrats on a good performance. What do you think helped you the most in your preparation? What would you have done differently? Would you change anything about how you did long runs, tempo runs, do more/less miles?

I always like hearing details about how everyone here runs their races.
 

Kremlin Watcher

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
5,233
Orleans, MA
QUOTE (AusTexSoxFan @ Feb 16 2010, 10:39 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2814097
Thanks fellers!

Way to go Austin! Been traveling since Monday, so came late to the thread. I read your race summary with great interest because it looks like the strategy I will try to follow for Boston.

Question: when you started to struggle at mile 23, do you think it had anything to do with your nutrition leading up to the race? Did you carbo load? I am curious because I am trying to develop a fueling-up plan for the race.
 

underhandtofirst

stud who hits bombs
SoSH Member
Jul 25, 2005
1,575
Chelmsford, MA
QUOTE (Kremlin Watcher @ Feb 19 2010, 01:04 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2819134
Way to go Austin! Been traveling since Monday, so came late to the thread. I read your race summary with great interest because it looks like the strategy I will try to follow for Boston.

Question: when you started to struggle at mile 23, do you think it had anything to do with your nutrition leading up to the race? Did you carbo load? I am curious because I am trying to develop a fueling-up plan for the race.


KW, I'm not sure how ATSF did it, but may last marathon I did my best job carbo loading of any of the three marathons I've run. I had always done carbo loading, but this time I was really focused counting calories and making sure carbs were 80% (I think this was the number) cals I did eat. I gained a couple extra pounds because the carbs help retain extra water.

During the race I used the gels at 9, 16 and 23. Another factor was running a more controlled pace which cut down on the use of carbs as a fuel source.