Sox talking Mookie trade with Dodgers, Padres - News & Discussion

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Maximus

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SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
5,774
Mookie is a special talent and he wants to get paid. He's going to the highest bidder once he becomes a FA and doesn't want to sign now. Bloom is playing the cards he's been dealt and is trying to maximize the return by having the Padres and Dodgers bid against one another. I'd be shocked if Mookie isn't traded. I'd also trade Price separately and maximize the return for him.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
18,096
I can get behind the idea of the Sox exploring trading Mookie. Even the Red Sox have a finite sized money tree growing in their garden, and committing a huge, likely record setting, amount of money to a single player is not automatically a good investment from a pure baseball perspective. Not convinced he necessarily wants out of Boston; I think he wants the record contract first and foremost.

What I cannot get behind, however, is the Sox dumping him for lower rated prospects and overpaid replacement players. To hell with the past precedents that have been cited in this thread and elsewhere; none of them were Mookie. At some point, I'd be perfectly happy with the team letting him play out the season and walk; 2020 means something, and there is nothing wrong with trying to win in 2020 if the return for Mookie is some other team's sludge.

This is where I am on this as well. Betts won’t sign anything close to a realistic extension. The type of deal he wants as a free agent is a “winner’s curse” contract.

The smart thing to do is get what you can for him. He’s treating it like a business, the Red Sox should reciprocate.

After reading Speier’s book, there are two times when Mookie was decidedly unhappy here. The book makes clear that he felt like the organization didn’t support him as a rookie in 2014, and also mentions that the game wasn’t fun even though they won in 2017. Specifically that unnamed people criticized the dance moves he, Bradley, and Beni would do after victories as disrespecting the game.

So, I’m not sure that even matching the top offer would be enough. They might lose him anyway. if they can get three cheap contributors, Time to move on.
The bolded is the reason why I was so excited to see Cora come to Boston. He didn't seem to have any of this "disrespecting the game" crap that the prior managerial regime clung to. Last I looked, their dancing wasn't offensive and wasn't intended to show anyone up. Even players on other teams seemed to realize that the best way to stop the dancing was to simply win the game.
 

ookami7m

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Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
5,657
Mobile, AL
At the end of the day we root for the laundry. I like some of the players more than others but it’s the guys wearing the tackle twill that I root for.

I want Mookie to be on the team but My fandom survived Boggs, Mo, Nomar, and Pedro leaving. My fandom will survive Mookie leaving too if it comes to be.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,375
This sums up my feelings exactly.
I have seen the Red Sox lose:

Fred Lynn
Carlton Fisk
Mo Vaughn
Roger Clemens
Nomar Garciaparra
Jon Lester
Johnny Damon
Pedro Martinez (the worst blow of all)

The list goes on and on. And as they've lost those guys, I've still rooted for the team, because more than any individual player, I am a fan of the Boston Red Sox.

It will be incredibly painful to see Mookie traded (presuming it happens). It would also be incredibly painful to see him leave in free agency (if that were to happen). But I will cheer hard for the Red Sox anyway.
 

Plympton91

bubble burster
SoSH Member
Oct 19, 2008
12,408
For me the hardest loss was Carlton Fisk.

That was a GM having a fit of pique and losing a player they had no business losing (failing to tender contracts by the deadline) thus getting nothing in return rather than at least a crappy trade.
 

Maximus

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
5,774
I have seen the Red Sox lose:

Fred Lynn
Carlton Fisk
Mo Vaughn
Roger Clemens
Nomar Garciaparra
Jon Lester
Johnny Damon
Pedro Martinez (the worst blow of all)

The list goes on and on. And as they've lost those guys, I've still rooted for the team, because more than any individual player, I am a fan of the Boston Red Sox.

It will be incredibly painful to see Mookie traded (presuming it happens). It would also be incredibly painful to see him leave in free agency (if that were to happen). But I will cheer hard for the Red Sox anyway.
Fisk is still my most painful departure as part of that Fisk, Lynn & Burleson front office debacle. All time Sox favorite, dude was NE tough.
 

Maximus

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
5,774
For me the hardest loss was Carlton Fisk.

That was a GM having a fit of pique and losing a player they had no business losing (failing to tender contracts by the deadline) thus getting nothing in return rather than at least a crappy trade.
This. Without question, my hardest loss.
 

Bernie Carbohydrate

writes the Semi-Fin
Lifetime Member
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Dec 2, 2001
4,047
South Carolina via Dorchestah
Sums it up. If the 10/320 offer is true that satisfies me for effort. Allocating 15% of your payroll to one player is tough and I respect going another way with it. They will find another route to the next ring, zero doubt. Laundry first.
The bolded is where I diverge from the realpolitik of this discussion. The payroll is not fixed. Ownership can pick a payroll target, and there are suggestions they want to get below the luxury threshold. That is a choice.

Betts could get 10/350 and that would only be 10% of the payroll if John Henry would be satisfied with making less money in 2020. He makes money every year. The choice to go to the luxury threshold will result in more money for the owners and less talent for the Sox.

As far as what next if they ship Betts out and "reset" the tax?

Not much on the macro level. Fenway will still sell out, because is it a small ballpark in a big city. The Red Sox have enviable brand equity that can survive a down year, or even three down years.

On the micro level, a trade of Betts would be devastating. Like Teddywingman, I will withdraw in anger. Instead of following the Sox closely and going to 2-6 games (I live out of state), I will mostly ignore the Sox and do other things this summer.

I will spend time with my children, a development that will alarm them and confuse their mother. That late attempt at half-assed parenting, far too inconsistent to make a difference, will be emotionally damaging, and remind them of the time I tried to be a decent father in the fall of 2008 because I didn't like Matt Cassell's throwing motion.

I will fill the hours with drink and the non-Sox part of SoSH (brace yourselves --I have never posted in TBLTS, but I am brimming with bad advice).

Adrift, I will probably watch the goddam NBA Summer League and start a new thread in the Port Cellar called "Time (Lord) for a Comeback."

Sans Betts, I will speak to my neighbors, which will do no credit to me and give no pleasure to my neighbors.

My excess energy, not longer needed to shout incoherently at Andrew Cashner, will likely curdle in my libido, which will do no credit to me and give no pleasure to my wife.

I know John Henry lurks on SoSH. Message sent, moneybags.
 
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nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,678
For me the hardest loss was Carlton Fisk.

That was a GM having a fit of pique and losing a player they had no business losing (failing to tender contracts by the deadline) thus getting nothing in return rather than at least a crappy trade.
I knew the family, so Fisk was also the worst loss for me.
 

Teachdad46

New Member
Oct 14, 2011
128
Vermont
Well, my first 17 years of following the Red Sox led to seasons like these (and then they got to the World Series and lost in Game 7).:
  • They finished:
    3rd of 8
    3rd of 8
    6th of 8
    4th of 8
    4th of 8
    4th of 8
    4th of 8
    3rd of 8
    3rd of 8
    5th of 8
    7th of 8
    6th of 10
    8th of 10
    7th of 10
    8th of 10
    9th of 10
    9th of 10
You got me by six years, but I think we're of the same tribe.
 

Savin Hillbilly

loves the secret sauce
SoSH Member
Jul 10, 2007
18,783
The wrong side of the bridge....
I get the instinct, but the fact is that Mookie being traded has nothing to do with the predicament they're in re: the luxury tax.
I think "nothing to do with it" is overstating the case. Obviously trading Mookie helps them to get under the tax limit, and that's one of their stated goals for this offseason, so it can't help but be a factor. But it's true that there would be a strong argument for trading him even if the tax wasn't in play at all*. That's why I think a Mookie trade is almost inevitable -- it's overdetermined, as the academic folks would say.

*Well, sort of. The argument would be weaker if we weren't subject to the tax penalties, because then our FA compensation pick would be much better. But you could still make an argument that

[Price of Mookie on the winter 2020 trade market] > [Surplus value of one season of Mookie @ $27M] + [value of compensation pick]
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Jan 23, 2009
20,675
Maine
I think "nothing to do with it" is overstating the case. Obviously trading Mookie helps them to get under the tax limit, and that's one of their stated goals for this offseason, so it can't help but be a factor. But it's true that there would be a strong argument for trading him even if the tax wasn't in play at all. That's why I think a Mookie trade is almost inevitable -- it's overdetermined, as the academic folks would say.
I think the luxury tax thing has everything to do with it. Absent that and its associated penalties, I don't think this team worries that much about the difference between a $200M and a $250M payroll. Or about what kind of an albatross a 10/$400M+ kind of contract to Mookie would be in year 7 through 10.

I guess those concerns would exist if the luxury caps were in place but the team was currently $45M under, but I still don't think they would reach the point where they'd see trading him as the right move for the future of the team.
 

bosockboy

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
19,862
St. Louis, MO
The bolded is where I diverge from the realpolitik of this discussion. The payroll is not fixed. Ownership can pick a payroll target, and there are suggestions they want to get below the luxury threshold. That is a choice.

Betts could get 10/350 and that would only be 10% of the payroll if John Henry would be satisfied with making less money in 2020. He makes money every year. The choice to go to the luxury threshold will result in more money for the owners and less talent for the Sox.

As far as what next if they ship Betts out and "reset" the tax?

No much on the macro level. Fenway will still sell out, because is it a small ballpark in a big city. The Red Sox have enviable brand equity that can survive a down year, or even three down years.

On the micro level, a trade of Betts would be devastating. Like Teddywingman, I will withdraw in anger. Instead of following the Sox closely and going to 2-6 games (I live out of state), I will mostly ignore the Sox and do other things this summer.

I will spend time with my children, a development that will alarm them and confuse their mother. That late attempt at half-assed parenting, far too inconsistent to make a difference, will be emotionally damaging, and remind them of the time I tried to be a decent father in the fall 2008 because I didn't like Matt Cassell's throwing motion.

I will fill the hours with drink and the non-Sox part of SoSH (brace yourselves --I have never posted in TBLTS, but I am brimming with bad advice).

Adrift, I will probably watch the goddam NBA Summer League and start a new thread in the Port Cellar called "Time (Lord) for a Comeback."

Sans Betts, I will speak to my neighbors, which will do no credit to me and give no pleasure to my neighbors.

My excess energy, not longer needed to shout incoherently at Andrew Cashner, will likely curdle in my libido, which will do no credit to me and give no pleasure to my wife.

I know John Henry lurks on SoSH. Message sent, moneybags.
Sounds like your standard is to have the highest payroll in baseball or bust. And damn the draft penalties. That’s a tall standard, and not realistic, but to each their own.
 

Savin Hillbilly

loves the secret sauce
SoSH Member
Jul 10, 2007
18,783
The wrong side of the bridge....
I think the luxury tax thing has everything to do with it. Absent that and its associated penalties, I don't think this team worries that much about the difference between a $200M and a $250M payroll.
I think that last part is absolutely correct. My point (and, I think, johnnywayback's) is that there's an argument -- perhaps the primary argument -- for trading Mookie that has nothing to do with the amount of his 2020 salary or of the team's overall payroll. It's simply about weighing the most likely long-term value derived from trading him now vs. keeping him till the deadline or all season.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

has fancy plans, and pants to match
Dope
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2001
24,533
The bolded is where I diverge from the realpolitik of this discussion. The payroll is not fixed. Ownership can pick a payroll target, and there are suggestions they want to get below the luxury threshold. That is a choice.

Betts could get 10/350 and that would only be 10% of the payroll if John Henry would be satisfied with making less money in 2020. He makes money every year. The choice to go to the luxury threshold will result in more money for the owners and less talent for the Sox.

As far as what next if they ship Betts out and "reset" the tax?

No much on the macro level. Fenway will still sell out, because is it a small ballpark in a big city. The Red Sox have enviable brand equity that can survive a down year, or even three down years.

On the micro level, a trade of Betts would be devastating. Like Teddywingman, I will withdraw in anger. Instead of following the Sox closely and going to 2-6 games (I live out of state), I will mostly ignore the Sox and do other things this summer.

I will spend time with my children, a development that will alarm them and confuse their mother. That late attempt at half-assed parenting, far too inconsistent to make a difference, will be emotionally damaging, and remind them of the time I tried to be a decent father in the fall 2008 because I didn't like Matt Cassell's throwing motion.

I will fill the hours with drink and the non-Sox part of SoSH (brace yourselves --I have never posted in TBLTS, but I am brimming with bad advice).

Adrift, I will probably watch the goddam NBA Summer League and start a new thread in the Port Cellar called "Time (Lord) for a Comeback."

Sans Betts, I will speak to my neighbors, which will do no credit to me and give no pleasure to my neighbors.

My excess energy, not longer needed to shout incoherently at Andrew Cashner, will likely curdle in my libido, which will do no credit to me and give no pleasure to my wife.

I know John Henry lurks on SoSH. Message sent, moneybags.
I love this post so much.
 

EvilEmpire

paying for his sins
Moderator
SoSH Member
Apr 9, 2007
17,178
Washington
Yeah, this is why SOSH is awesome, and BC one of the best posters here. You don't have to be a Sox fan to appreciate it.

I will spend time with my children, a development that will alarm them and confuse their mother. That late attempt at half-assed parenting, far too inconsistent to make a difference, will be emotionally damaging, and remind them of the time I tried to be a decent father in the fall 2008 because I didn't like Matt Cassell's throwing motion.
:fonz:
 

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
8,091
If they trade Betts, people will be mad for a few days. And then in July the interest in the Red Sox will be in direct proportion with whatever their record is at the time. They traded Nomar for a SS with a career best OPS+ of 105 and defense-first 1B.
 

johnnywayback

Member
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Aug 8, 2004
1,421
I think that last part is absolutely correct. My point (and, I think, johnnywayback's) is that there's an argument -- perhaps the primary argument -- for trading Mookie that has nothing to do with the amount of his 2020 salary or of the team's overall payroll. It's simply about weighing the most likely long-term value derived from trading him now vs. keeping him till the deadline or all season.
Correct. And if they thought they could get Mookie to sign a contract for the exorbitant amount, just-shy-of-Trout amount they value him at -- either now or in the off-season -- they would just trade Price to get under the threshold in 2020. In fact, they likely would have already done so.
 

NJ_Sox_Fan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 2, 2006
10,736
NJ
If they trade Betts, people will be mad for a few days. And then in July the interest in the Red Sox will be in direct proportion with whatever their record is at the time. They traded Nomar for a SS with a career best OPS+ of 105 and defense-first 1B.
Exactly. I'll be annoyed if they move him; even more so if it's not a solid return. However, I'd be just as annoyed, or close to it, if they paid him $400+ million dollars.
 

OCD SS

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
The bolded is where I diverge from the realpolitik of this discussion. The payroll is not fixed. Ownership can pick a payroll target, and there are suggestions they want to get below the luxury threshold. That is a choice.

Betts could get 10/350 and that would only be 10% of the payroll if John Henry would be satisfied with making less money in 2020. He makes money every year. The choice to go to the luxury threshold will result in more money for the owners and less talent for the Sox.

As far as what next if they ship Betts out and "reset" the tax?

Not much on the macro level. Fenway will still sell out, because is it a small ballpark in a big city. The Red Sox have enviable brand equity that can survive a down year, or even three down years.

On the micro level, a trade of Betts would be devastating. Like Teddywingman, I will withdraw in anger. Instead of following the Sox closely and going to 2-6 games (I live out of state), I will mostly ignore the Sox and do other things this summer.

I will spend time with my children, a development that will alarm them and confuse their mother. That late attempt at half-assed parenting, far too inconsistent to make a difference, will be emotionally damaging, and remind them of the time I tried to be a decent father in the fall of 2008 because I didn't like Matt Cassell's throwing motion.

I will fill the hours with drink and the non-Sox part of SoSH (brace yourselves --I have never posted in TBLTS, but I am brimming with bad advice).

Adrift, I will probably watch the goddam NBA Summer League and start a new thread in the Port Cellar called "Time (Lord) for a Comeback."

Sans Betts, I will speak to my neighbors, which will do no credit to me and give no pleasure to my neighbors.

My excess energy, not longer needed to shout incoherently at Andrew Cashner, will likely curdle in my libido, which will do no credit to me and give no pleasure to my wife.

I know John Henry lurks on SoSH. Message sent, moneybags.
All this and you still won’t be able to find the time to chronicle a Sox-free-summer Daily Finn-style?

We could have a whole new Pripyat-style sub forum where people who leave in anger with Mookie have a place to post.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,375
If the Merloni tweet is right, then it's almost certain that Mookie has made it clear that he won't take any less than $400 million in this next contract. He absolutely has the right to look for that much, and he absolutely has the right to get himself into free agency to maximize his potential earnings. 100% support that.

So if you're the Red Sox, either (1) that money is just too much, period, and you move on. You trade him for as much as you can get and don't look back. Or (2) you eat the money, go WAY over the luxury tax, and just go for it. Or (3) you try to find a way to reset the luxury tax, with the hopes of freeing up your money situation such that you can have the best chance at signing him in free agency.

I think, sadly, perhaps the only way that (3) is possible is to...trade Betts now. So deal him, get under the tax threshold, and then offer him the massive contract he wants after 2020. If it's not enough, so be it...you gave it the best chance you could. If it IS enough...now you have all the things you got back in the trade, plus you have Mookie.

So it appears, to my thinking, that a trade just might be the best way to go. As horrible as that sounds to me because I love love Mookie.
 

barbed wire Bob

crippled by fear
SoSH Member
The bolded is where I diverge from the realpolitik of this discussion. The payroll is not fixed. Ownership can pick a payroll target, and there are suggestions they want to get below the luxury threshold. That is a choice.

Betts could get 10/350 and that would only be 10% of the payroll if John Henry would be satisfied with making less money in 2020. He makes money every year. The choice to go to the luxury threshold will result in more money for the owners and less talent for the Sox.

As far as what next if they ship Betts out and "reset" the tax?

Not much on the macro level. Fenway will still sell out, because is it a small ballpark in a big city. The Red Sox have enviable brand equity that can survive a down year, or even three down years.

On the micro level, a trade of Betts would be devastating. Like Teddywingman, I will withdraw in anger. Instead of following the Sox closely and going to 2-6 games (I live out of state), I will mostly ignore the Sox and do other things this summer.

I will spend time with my children, a development that will alarm them and confuse their mother. That late attempt at half-assed parenting, far too inconsistent to make a difference, will be emotionally damaging, and remind them of the time I tried to be a decent father in the fall of 2008 because I didn't like Matt Cassell's throwing motion.

I will fill the hours with drink and the non-Sox part of SoSH (brace yourselves --I have never posted in TBLTS, but I am brimming with bad advice).

Adrift, I will probably watch the goddam NBA Summer League and start a new thread in the Port Cellar called "Time (Lord) for a Comeback."

Sans Betts, I will speak to my neighbors, which will do no credit to me and give no pleasure to my neighbors.

My excess energy, not longer needed to shout incoherently at Andrew Cashner, will likely curdle in my libido, which will do no credit to me and give no pleasure to my wife.

I know John Henry lurks on SoSH. Message sent, moneybags.
“curdle in my libido”?
4850E475-28B6-4F37-9619-A5762E9A0481.jpeg
 

ehaz

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 30, 2007
4,948
I hope this is all just smoke to get the Dodgers to up their bid. Myers, Naylor, Lucchessi, Quantrill, etc. are 20-25th man on the roster type players. Unlike Myers and Naylor, at least AJ Pollock has a history of being a serviceable defensive outfielder. I don't know if you can get Dustin May, but two of Downs, Gonsolin, Gray, Ruiz should be doable.

Even though the Dodgers could simply get Mookie in FA, he fits their current core perfectly and it makes sense for them to have an extra bite at the apple with another superstar on the roster given their recent WS disappointments. The fact that they could plausibly re-sign him gives them an incentive to sell Mookie on LA. And at least we can root for Mookie in the 2020 WS against the Yankees...
 

Yelling At Clouds

Post-darwinian
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
3,405
It’s not the worst part of this ordeal, but another unwelcome development is that apparently we’re back to the days of drawn-out negotiations playing out in leaks to the media resulting in a lot of reporting and little information.
 

JM3

often quoted
SoSH Member
Dec 14, 2019
14,279
Heyman: Sense is that Red Sox seem more serious than ever about a Mookie Betts deal, and rivals are starting to think a trade may happen. Dodgers and Padres are teams most often publicly linked though no sense yet who may be most likely.
View: https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/1222267107670396928
Not sure if that tweet uses the word "sense" enough. You're not Spiderman, Heyman.

Mookie is awesome, but this is unfortunately necessary in terms of retooling & avoiding falling deep into an extended period of mediocrity. The Red Sox already don't get any of my $$$, since I don't live there anymore, so it's probably easy for me to say, though.

I hope Mookie does sensationally & has a great time wherever he ends up long term (unless it's with the Yankees), but yeah, adding several nice cost controlled pieces & getting under the tax will help the future a ton.
 

bosockboy

Member
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Jul 15, 2005
19,862
St. Louis, MO
By their regular M.O. the Cardinals might be in if they thought they could get him to sign an extension. Since there’s no chance of that, it’s easy to see them bowing out
If he’s traded to STL we won’t like the deal. They are in maximum prospect hoarding mode. Not spending a nickel.
 

high cheese

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 5, 2001
135
"Rivals are starting to think..." Cashman must be grinning ear to ear.

Signed a stud, readying to watch arch rival trade not only a stud but an all time great. Couldn't get any better for the Yanks.

But we get to reset the tax and build organizational depth. How exciting...
 

brandonchristensen

Loves Aaron Judge
SoSH Member
Feb 4, 2012
38,144
If I had my way I would let him play out the year. Look at this again in July, and make the decision there.

I expect a year more like 2019 from him than 2018. Who knows, maybe no one wants to give him 300m after this year.

Nomar also miscalculated with Theo.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
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SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,713
Signed a stud, readying to watch arch rival trade not only a stud but an all time great. Couldn't get any better for the Yanks.

But we get to reset the tax and build organizational depth. How exciting...
You could switch the current names with David Price and Robinson Cano and the exact reverse happened a few years ago*.

*I know Cano isn't Mookie but he was a likely HOFer before he got caught with PEDs and also I know Cano/Price didn't happen in the same offseason, but the basic point is the same, things can move/flip quickly for well-run big market teams as you guys saw in 2013.
 

nvalvo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
21,478
Rogers Park
Too many players have walked out of Boston in the past. Ownership doesnt want to get burned again and I cant blame them.

I hate this deal. But I hate more the fact that Betts won't even listen to an offer. The Sox could offer to make him the highest player in baseball and he wouldnt listen. It screams of a desire to get out of town IMO. I'm not "mad" at Mookie...he has a right to leave if he wants to. But ultimately, this situation is far more on him than ownership.

I love the guy, but I can't fault the team if they make a move. Even this ugly one.
What are you talking about? They offered him 10/$300m! He not only listened, he made a counter offer!
 
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Yo La Tengo

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 21, 2005
911
I've gone round and round on whether to trade Mookie... looking at the best case speculation on a trade package, I think they should start the season and consider offers if they are out of contention this summer (and after making a very generous offer). This line-up won the world series 15 months ago. Let's see if Sale and Price can return to form and take a run at the playoffs before selling off the team's best player for a really underwhelming return.
 

Yaz4Ever

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Jul 10, 2004
11,256
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I, like many, just assume he's going to be traded. As such, I'm looking for the best package we can get and hope that we're aggressive in our attempt to re-sign him via free agency. Don't think anyone is worth $40M per year, but I'm also old enough to remember the Dave Winfield signing and how everyone was so up in arms at the money. At this point, I just want the band-aid torn off so we can all move forward. My gut says Betts isn't the only one to be moved and we'll see a flurry of activity once one of the dominoes (Betts or anyone else) falls.
 

section15

Member
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Mar 23, 2007
227
Bradford, MA and section 15
They were a finalist for Lester and got outbid, it probably would have worked out fine if they'd offered more money than the Cubs did.
From what I understood - the Sox offer was lower than the Cubs' offer - but was a match if you consider taxes. Lester left because the Sox were in shambles, and he was walking onto a much better baseball situation at Wrigley Field. He was escaping a cellar-dweller and going to a playoff team.
 

scottyno

late Bloomer
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2008
11,304
From what I understood - the Sox offer was lower than the Cubs' offer - but was a match if you consider taxes. Lester left because the Sox were in shambles, and he was walking onto a much better baseball situation at Wrigley Field. He was escaping a cellar-dweller and going to a playoff team.
The Cubs won 66 and 73 games the 2 years before they got Lester and hadn't been competitive for years while the sox were a year removed from winning a ring. And both states had basically the same tax rate at the time.
 

nvalvo

Member
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Jul 16, 2005
21,478
Rogers Park
The Cubs won 66 and 73 games the 2 years before they got Lester and hadn't been competitive for years while the sox were a year removed from winning a ring. And both states had basically the same tax rate at the time.
Yes, but:

Cubs Top 31 Prospects for 2014
  1. Javier Baez, SS (1, 70, Medium)
  2. Kris Bryant, 3B (NA, 70, Medium)
  3. C.J. Edwards, RHP (NA, 65, High)
  4. Albert Almora, OF (2, 60, Medium)
  5. Jorge Soler, OF (3, 65, Extreme)
  6. Pierce Johnson, RHP (6, 55, High)
  7. Arismendy Alcantara, 2B/SS (10, 55, High)
  8. Jeimer Candelario, 3B (8, 50, High)
  9. Dan Vogelbach, 1B (7, 50, High)
  10. Arodys Vizcaino, RHP (4, 55, Extreme)
  11. Kyle Hendricks, RHP (NR, 45, Low)
  12. Paul Blackburn, RHP (16, 50, High)
  13. Christian Villanueva, 3B (12, 45, Medium)
  14. Mike Olt, 3B (NA, 55, Extreme)
  15. Corey Black, RHP (NA, 50, High)
  16. Eloy Jimenez, OF (NA, 55, Extreme)
  17. Jacob Hannemann, OF (NA, 55, Extreme)
  18. Dillon Maples, RHP (18, 55, Extreme)
  19. Tyler Skulina, RHP (NA, 50, High)
  20. Rob Zastryzny, LHP (NA, 50, High)
  21. Ivan Pineyro, RHP (NA, 45, Medium)
  22. Kyuji Fujikawa, RHP (9, 45, Medium)
  23. Gleyber Torres, SS (NA, 55, Extreme)
  24. Dallas Beeler, RHP (NR, 45, High)
  25. Armando Rivero, RHP (NA, 45, High)
  26. Matt Szczur, OF (14, 45, High)
  27. Zach Cates, RHP (NR, 45, High)
  28. Ben Wells, RHP (NR, 45, High)
  29. Rubi Silva, OF (NR, 50, Extreme)
  30. Danny Lockhart, 2B (NR, 45, High)
  31. Dustin Geiger, 1B (NR, 45, High)
Baseball America’s Grade Scale and Risk Factors

BA Grade Scale
  • 75-80: Franchise players and No. 1 starters
  • 65-70: No. 2 starters and perennial all-stars
  • 55-60: First-division regulars and No. 3 starters and elite closers
  • 45-50: Most players reside here. The high end (50s with lower risk) are second-division regulars with higher peaks, eighth-inning relievers and fourth starters on playoff teams. The lower end are platoon/utility players, back-end starters and relievers.
  • 35-40: Players with fifth-starter or utility/backup catcher upside, or relief specialists. It will be rare for a 35 to make the book.
Risk Factors
  • Safe: Has shown realistic ceiling in big leagues.
  • Low: Likely to reach realistic ceiling, certain big league career barring injury.
  • Medium: Still some work to do to turn tools into major league-caliber skills.
  • High: Most draft picks in their first seasons, players with plenty of projection left.
  • Extreme: Teenagers in Rookie ball or players with significant injury histories.
Boston had a good farm, too, but it wasn't hard to see the Cubs getting good in a hurry.
 

The Gray Eagle

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2001
16,720
If I had my way I would let him play out the year. Look at this again in July, and make the decision there.

I expect a year more like 2019 from him than 2018. Who knows, maybe no one wants to give him 300m after this year.

Nomar also miscalculated with Theo.
I've gone round and round on whether to trade Mookie... looking at the best case speculation on a trade package, I think they should start the season and consider offers if they are out of contention this summer (and after making a very generous offer). This line-up won the world series 15 months ago. Let's see if Sale and Price can return to form and take a run at the playoffs before selling off the team's best player for a really underwhelming return.
But if they wait till the deadline, they would get less in return-- the Padres might not give us the fat kid who stabbed his teammate, or the #5 starter with an ERA over 5.00!

Why bother trying to make the postseason 18 months after dominating the league if it costs you pieces like those?
 

scottyno

late Bloomer
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2008
11,304
Boston had a good farm, too, but it wasn't hard to see the Cubs getting good in a hurry.
That's the point, both teams were in similar positions, coming off down years with young potential future stars at almost every position in the minors, so unless he had a different perception than the rest of baseball I doubt Lester saw the Cubs as about to breakout while the Sox were going nowhere.
 
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