Spat between Marcus Morris and Jaylen Brown

Ed Hillel

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Meh, that’s probably nothing. The the rest of the team seemed to shrug it off, and it wasn’t really all that heated. Two competitors pissed they were losing.
 

Deathofthebambino

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I'd still be kind of curious to see the play on the court immediately prior to that timeout to figure out what they might been getting on each about.
 

ifmanis5

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Yeah, it's hard to tell exactly what's going on and it's likely just a minor frustration manifesting itself during a road loss they were supposed to win (they were 1 to 3 point favorites).

However, the big picture of this season is one of exasperation, confusion and aggravation. It shouldn't be like this, everyone (fans, coaches, players, media) expected almost a victory tour through the Eastern Conference. From the pre-season losses to the constant being down by 10+ points in games to the competition for minutes, this whole year has been a vexing test of patience and it's beginning to seep out in public. Perhaps it was those lofty expectations that were wrong?

They're still 10 games over .500 and pretty much a lock for the playoffs but Brad and Danny have to take a more active role in figuring this out. Shipping out Rozier for example feels like it might be the equivalent of trading Nomar in 2004 but that's only a guess from the outside. Here's hoping they can tighten stuff like this up now before it spirals into something worse.
 

Marciano490

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That’s barely a push or having to be separated. You see that ten times a night at a bar between bros that are doing fireball shots 3 minutes later.

Edit - because Mauf is the OP, I’m not saying it’s common on a court or field, and it’s worth noting, but unless they’re giant assholes or grudge holders, they should be able to shakes that off like a raindrop.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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I think the actual shove is a whole lot of nothing especially since Jaylen looked like he had a wry smile on at the end of the video. However, the reason it happened was because Jaylen missed a layup and then loafed back on defense which caused Mook to have to guard two guys on the fast break. That’s not good and it’s not the first time guys have been pissed at Jaylen for doing that. I remember a game at the Garden a couple months ago where I think Mook and Rozier were visibility pissed at Jaylen right before halftime for doing something similar. There’s absolutely no excuse for moping after a miss and not getting back on defense. Frustrating that halfway in we aren’t past stuff like this.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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I think the actual shove is a whole lot of nothing especially since Jaylen looked like he had a wry smile on at the end of the video. However, the reason it happened was because Jaylen missed a layup and then loafed back on defense which caused Mook to have to guard two guys on the fast break. That’s not good and it’s not the first time guys have been pissed at Jaylen for doing that. I remember a game at the Garden a couple months ago where I think Mook and Rozier were visibility pissed at Jaylen right before halftime for doing something similar. There’s absolutely no excuse for moping after a miss and not getting back on defense. Frustrating that halfway in we aren’t past stuff like this.
It was Mook and smart. They both laid into him on camera.
 
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joe dokes

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However, the big picture of this season is one of exasperation, confusion and aggravation. It shouldn't be like this, everyone (fans, coaches, players, media) expected almost a victory tour through the Eastern Conference. From the pre-season losses to the constant being down by 10+ points in games to the competition for minutes, this whole year has been a vexing test of patience and it's beginning to seep out in public. Perhaps it was those lofty expectations that were wrong?
Anyone who didn't see the need for a roughly 20-game shakedown cruise for an essentially re-made team (from the one that ended last season) was delusional.
 

maufman

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That’s barely a push or having to be separated. You see that ten times a night at a bar between bros that are doing fireball shots 3 minutes later.

Edit - because Mauf is the OP, I’m not saying it’s common on a court or field, and it’s worth noting, but unless they’re giant assholes or grudge holders, they should be able to shakes that off like a raindrop.
Yeah, I totally expect they’ll put the incident behind them.

That said, there are always going to be a few guys on a 12-man team who don’t like one another. I think it’s more likely than not that Jaylen and MM are two of those guys on this year’s Celtics. Because if the two of them were tight, or even friendly, I don’t think MM gets that upset about an effort lapse on the second night of a back-to-back.

As I said upthread, I don’t expect both guys back next season (MM likely won’t be re-signed, but if he is, I’d expect Jaylen to be traded), so assuming we’re right about both guys brushing off last night’s incident, I agree it’s no big deal.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Yeah, it's hard to tell exactly what's going on and it's likely just a minor frustration manifesting itself during a road loss they were supposed to win (they were 1 to 3 point favorites).

However, the big picture of this season is one of exasperation, confusion and aggravation. It shouldn't be like this, everyone (fans, coaches, players, media) expected almost a victory tour through the Eastern Conference. From the pre-season losses to the constant being down by 10+ points in games to the competition for minutes, this whole year has been a vexing test of patience and it's beginning to seep out in public. Perhaps it was those lofty expectations that were wrong?

They're still 10 games over .500 and pretty much a lock for the playoffs but Brad and Danny have to take a more active role in figuring this out. Shipping out Rozier for example feels like it might be the equivalent of trading Nomar in 2004 but that's only a guess from the outside. Here's hoping they can tighten stuff like this up now before it spirals into something worse.
Do people still feel this way? Theyve been the best team in the east over the last 15-20 games. They just lost on the road on the tail end of a back-to-back and 3rd in 4 nights. This teams playing pretty well.
 

DrewDawg

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As last year's team was totally changed from the prior year and didn't need a shakedown cruise, I thought this team would hit the ground running, too.
Remember last year though, our point differential early on showed we were extremely lucky to win a lot of those games we did. A road loss it a decentish team on the second night of a back to back isn't the end of the world. Their last 21 games they're at a 59 win pace.
 

lovegtm

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As last year's team was totally changed from the prior year and didn't need a shakedown cruise, I thought this team would hit the ground running, too.
In the NBA, meshing lots of talent, especially ball-dominant guys and wings, always takes more time than putting together guys who complement each other.

The 2007-2008 Celtics just worked because the skillsets were so complementary. The 2016-2017 Warriors had three generational shooters, which makes everything work. The 2010-2011 Heat, however, are more like these Celtics, and it took them almost 2 years to really figure things out (Bosh's role in particular, but also how to not do my-turn-your-turn with Wade & LeBron).

This year, the Raptors were just plugging Kawhi into DeRozan's spot, and the Bucks were just optimizing the center's spacing around Giannis. That's a lot easier than putting together 6 guys who want the ball in their hands, particularly when 4 of them can see their next contracts coming up soon.

I'd argue that the Celtics have actually done a pretty good job, all things considered. The Morris and Brown spat is the collateral damage though: it's a painful process when there are millions of dollars and big egos on the line. Sometimes guys work it out, sometimes they don't. We shall see.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Remember last year though, our point differential early on showed we were extremely lucky to win a lot of those games we did. A road loss it a decentish team on the second night of a back to back isn't the end of the world. Their last 21 games they're at a 59 win pace.
With the schedule we faced this really shouldn’t have been unexpected as we’ve feasted on the soft part of the schedule. We are now 2-5 vs playoff teams during that stretch if my count is correct.
 

joe dokes

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As last year's team was totally changed from the prior year and didn't need a shakedown cruise, I thought this team would hit the ground running, too.
Adding Hayward and Kyrie to guys that broke through and played 30+ very effective minutes a game for the last 25%(?) of the season and through the ECF and have different roles this season was bound to be tough.
The Miami example seems pretty good. They're smart, talented, well-coached and part of a well-run organization. They'll be fine.
 

TroyOLeary

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With the schedule we faced this really shouldn’t have been unexpected as we’ve feasted on the soft part of the schedule. We are now 2-5 vs playoff teams during that stretch if my count is correct.
4-4

Beat the Pacers, Nets, 76ers, Hornets
Lost to the Heat, Spurs, Rockets, Bucks
 

DrewDawg

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With the schedule we faced this really shouldn’t have been unexpected as we’ve feasted on the soft part of the schedule. We are now 2-5 vs playoff teams during that stretch if my count is correct.
I mean, sure. But at the end of the day, Philly, Toronto, Mil, etc. all end up playing the same spread of playoff and non-playoff teams we do. And even when we struggled early, we still beat Philly and Toronto.
 

HomeRunBaker

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4-4

Beat the Pacers, Nets, 76ers, Hornets
Lost to the Heat, Spurs, Rockets, Bucks
I was still looking at the playoff standings from last week. When you include Nets and Hornets win this improves the record but my point remains on the soft schedule and feasting on below .500 teams in response to the 59-win pace being hollow. Just trying to keep things in perspective.
 

DrewDawg

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I was still looking at the playoff standings from last week. When you include Nets and Hornets win this improves the record but my point remains on the soft schedule and feasting on below .500 teams in response to the 59-win pace being hollow. Just trying to keep things in perspective.
I'm just teasing you here, but yes, you've sussed out the fact that teams winning a higher percentage of games against non-playoff teams.

Winning percentage vs. under-.500 teams:
TOR: .800
MIL: .800
IND: .857
PHI: .741
BOS: .760

So 3 of the 4 teams ahead of them have fattened up on below .500 teams even more. If the Celtics had fattened up as much as Indiana they'd be the #3 seed.


But, as we've talked about, they've very clearly changed their style, rotations, starting lineups, etc. It's completely fair to note that.
 

bosox79

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There's been a few times this year where Marcus Smart and Rozier have ripped into Brown too. No physical contact or anything but they were clearly very upset with him.
 

chilidawg

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I was still looking at the playoff standings from last week. When you include Nets and Hornets win this improves the record but my point remains on the soft schedule and feasting on below .500 teams in response to the 59-win pace being hollow. Just trying to keep things in perspective.
What are you reading, last weeks Sporting News? Keeping things in perspective for you seems like a constant negative spin to me.
 

ifmanis5

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I get that last night was basically a schedule loss but after the Pacers win you start to think maybe they finally have it figured out. Then a step back last night. It's been a much harder season than anyone expected and that's where the frustrations kick in.
 

kelpapa

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There's been a few times this year where Marcus Smart and Rozier have ripped into Brown too. No physical contact or anything but they were clearly very upset with him.
Kyrie was pissed at him early last night when he didn't cover a corner 3 off a pick last night.
 

HomeRunBaker

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What are you reading, last weeks Sporting News? Keeping things in perspective for you seems like a constant negative spin to me.
No not at all. I defended the Celtics loss last night in the other thread to keep the Miami loss in perspective as well. You can’t do this while ignoring the schedule wins versus Brooklyn and Indiana as well along with the lottery heavy schedule of late.
 

maufman

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There's been a few times this year where Marcus Smart and Rozier have ripped into Brown too. No physical contact or anything but they were clearly very upset with him.
Kyrie was pissed at him early last night when he didn't cover a corner 3 off a pick last night.
Maybe Danny should re-sign MM and trade Jaylen for a veteran.

I don’t think one of them needs to go because of their interpersonal issues, but assuming Danny doesn’t have a blank check from ownership, I doubt it makes sense to pay market rate for both of them.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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No not at all. I defended the Celtics loss last night in the other thread to keep the Miami loss in perspective as well. You can’t do this while ignoring the schedule wins versus Brooklyn and Indiana as well along with the lottery heavy schedule of late.
No data to support this theory but I do think other posters are on to something when observing that even lottery teams are tougher than they used to be. A lot of these squads aren't yet in full tank mode and unlike the old days, they skew younger (the average age in the NBA is ~26.5 years old versus a peak of ~28 years old for the '99-00 seasons) and hungrier.

Furthermore, the conditioning demands of the sport mean that teams are less likely to run into players who are nursing hangovers (though I am sure it still happens just not as often) like they did even a decade or so ago...*Baron Davis...Al Harrington cough, cough*.

In short, I would not penalize a good team that much for getting beaten by a lottery team, especially at this point in the season. Of course if it happens post deadline when teams have so sold off useful players and are in full tank mode, its a different conversation.
 

bakahump

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From a totally outside view it wouldnt shock me if a very cerebral young Man like Brown was an "odd fit" with guys like Rozier or MaMo.

Seems like different Backgrounds and personalities. Also it wouldnt surprise me if Brown got along better with Kyrie (another cerebral if wierd guy) or Horford ( a wise old vet)

Not saying any of them are bad. Just seem different. (again this is all from interviews and stories I have read so take with a grain of salt.)

That being said IF he did have a better relationship with more established vets like Kyrie and Al I would have expected them to nip this in the bud.

Those guys (senior leaders) should be making sure EVERYONE is on the same page.
 

lexrageorge

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I miss those Ray Allen vs Rajon Rondo spats.

FWIW, it's not totally surprising that a veteran that came here via trade and is on a below market contract through some rather bizarre circumstances is battling a bit with a player still on his rookie contract. I don't think either one needs to be traded, although I agree that chances are high that at least one of them are gone next year for reasons totally unrelated to this minor incident.
 

The Social Chair

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Jaylen has played well over the last 3 weeks. Everyone (but Bill Simmons) has acknlowedged he has returned to form from last year over this time. He had a tough game last night, and probably will every now and then because he is 22.

I'm happy where Jaylen is at right now.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Jaylen has played well over the last 3 weeks. Everyone (but Bill Simmons) has acknlowedged he has returned to form from last year over this time. He had a tough game last night, and probably will every now and then because he is 22.

I'm happy where Jaylen is at right now.
One of the NBA Radio guys (either Haywood or EJ) was talking about the trips to Miami when they would land at 2am after a game and there would always be guys going out on the town after they landed. It wouldn’t surprise me if a 22-year old saw this as an opportunity to explore Miami in the wee hours either. Jaylen was clearly not ready to play last night. This may be a case of young kids doing what young kids do.
 

HomeRunBaker

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No data to support this theory but I do think other posters are on to something when observing that even lottery teams are tougher than they used to be. A lot of these squads aren't yet in full tank mode and unlike the old days, they skew younger (the average age in the NBA is ~26.5 years old versus a peak of ~28 years old for the '99-00 seasons) and hungrier.

Furthermore, the conditioning demands of the sport mean that teams are less likely to run into players who are nursing hangovers (though I am sure it still happens just not as often) like they did even a decade or so ago...*Baron Davis...Al Harrington cough, cough*.

In short, I would not penalize a good team that much for getting beaten by a lottery team, especially at this point in the season. Of course if it happens post deadline when teams have so sold off useful players and are in full tank mode, its a different conversation.
Definitely the case up until the trade deadline every year until the sellers begin selling but I don’t notice anything different about this year prior to the ASG. Maybe look at point differentials of lottery teams both over the first 50 games then through end of the season each year.
 

Deathofthebambino

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I think the actual shove is a whole lot of nothing especially since Jaylen looked like he had a wry smile on at the end of the video. However, the reason it happened was because Jaylen missed a layup and then loafed back on defense which caused Mook to have to guard two guys on the fast break. That’s not good and it’s not the first time guys have been pissed at Jaylen for doing that. I remember a game at the Garden a couple months ago where I think Mook and Rozier were visibility pissed at Jaylen right before halftime for doing something similar. There’s absolutely no excuse for moping after a miss and not getting back on defense. Frustrating that halfway in we aren’t past stuff like this.
I hope when Jaylen said something to Mook, it was along the lines of "What's the deal with you standing there watching a ball bounce, while the opponent hustles over and knocks it out of bounds off of you?" Nobody showed up to play last night. Not Jaylen, not Mook, not Al, not Kyrie, nobody..
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I hope when Jaylen said something to Mook, it was along the lines of "What's the deal with you standing there watching a ball bounce, while the opponent hustles over and knocks it out of bounds off of you?" Nobody showed up to play last night. Not Jaylen, not Mook, not Al, not Kyrie, nobody..
Um, did you not see TimeLord. Because he was wreaking havoc when Brad unleashed him. TimeLord is not phased by B2Bs or Miami or...time.
 

Imbricus

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Well, to be fair, TL only played 12 minutes the night before. (True, Horford only played 18 in the Pacers game too, but lately he's looked like he's been aging in dog years -- which raises the Twilight Zone-esque question, if Time Lord can slow time in his own world, is he somehow accelerating it for some of his teammates, to achieve balance in the universe?)

As a side note, one thing I've noticed from TL's limited stints: sometimes he can be very engaged and very scary (vs. Pelicans, and Heat this week), but other times, as when he's on the floor with the garbage unit late in the game, he can just look like he's going through the motions. I think this was identified as a concern in his scouting report. Still, as long as he can dial in when he needs to, I'm good with him.
 

djbayko

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Well, to be fair, TL only played 12 minutes the night before. (True, Horford only played 18 in the Pacers game too, but lately he's looked like he's been aging in dog years -- which raises the Twilight Zone-esque question, if Time Lord can slow time in his own world, is he somehow accelerating it for some of his teammates, to achieve balance in the universe?)

As a side note, one thing I've noticed from TL's limited stints: sometimes he can be very engaged and very scary (vs. Pelicans, and Heat this week), but other times, as when he's on the floor with the garbage unit late in the game, he can just look like he's going through the motions. I think this was identified as a concern in his scouting report. Still, as long as he can dial in when he needs to, I'm good with him.
I think it’s very much like that old theory of relativity conundrum where if you take an hour long trip on a rocket ship at near the speed of light, upon your return all of your friends and family would be 30 years older.