Sports Cards Mania

[Fishercat]

In cards outside of the Big 4 sports, WWE is having a pretty big boom. Adam Gellman has been a leading collector voice in this and he has some interesting numbers - from 2022 to 2023 eBay sales of wrestling cards cycles between 10-20k a month. This year we've seen a 2-3x bump in those numbers. A good chunk of that is that Panini is actually getting out new product and another part is that the WWE is hot again as a product. Fanatics is getting the license in 2025 so Panini likely only has 2-3 sets left, but Topps is inheriting a hot license and we will see if they can keep up m

On the other hand, that we aren't seeing new WNBA product is insane given the moment the league is having. They put out a Caitlin Clark product but I honestly expected to see a new product with the rookie class and stars but I guess not. I'd be a terrible speculator but given how affordable top WNBA autos are I'd be thinking of trying to scoop those up at the right price before hype hits the cards

 

[Bergs]

Picked this up today at a great price: $100 even.

 

[Fishercat]

I love Sweet Spot cards. I think that particular one isn't from the set with fading issues, but make sure you keep it out of the light when possible. Some of the Sweet Spot cards don't even have their autos any more.

 

[Bergs]

I love Sweet Spot cards. I think that particular one isn't from the set with fading issues, but make sure you keep it out of the light when possible. Some of the Sweet Spot cards don't even have their autos any more.

That would kinda suck. lol

 

[jmanny24]

An update on my quest for the Black Sox. Got these 2 in hand today to give me 4. Still need Lefty Williams and Risberg which are more attainable than the last 2 of McMullin and Shoeless Joe.

 

[Fishercat]

Sports cards feel, to me, like they're in a bit of a weird place right now.

For context, outside of Allen and Ginter (which is my binky) I largely stopped doing baseball breaks except - very occasionally - picking up the Sox in a team break for a new product in case I can get something fun. I do however try to keep up with the products just out of interest of the hobby on the whole and in case a player I really like does show up. Fanatics has done, a pretty good job IMO, at really shorting up some of the crappier elements Topps did. The auto lists generally have less junk, the card quality is better, I think card design overall is better, and the floor in a lot of these products is higher. The issue is that the 99.9% ceiling is lower than it has been in a while and the singles market really isn't picking it up to justify the ever increasing costs.

For instance, I was in about six cases of Ginter - which is the one set I still really collect for baseball as I love a lot of the design elements, the oddball inserts and minis, and just the whole experience of it. The 2024 product is much better than 2022. Autographs are more frequent and higher quality, the list of baseball signers are generally at least relevant MLB players and legends, They've added a few good looking chase cards that are tough but attainable in the Chrome parallels, the numbered Filigrees, as as well as some of the super long odds high end chases. I had a great time but it did also highlight a lot of what the problems are - it's very difficult to hit a card that makes the box justifiable cost wise, and there's not even enough boxes where you only lose a little bit. On my two personal boxes, I probably am only losing a little bit on each of them if I sold out, but from what I watched it seemed maybe 1 every 4-5 boxes had a card in it worth $100+ and maybe 1-2 cards a case that were over $200. And people just aren't paying enough for singles to float it along. A Vladdy Jr. auto was the 17th card selected in a five case (60 box) hit draft and one just sold for $43.A Patrick Bailey auto was around the 60th pick (so like best hit of the worst box or second best hit of a good box) and went for $18.

I do feel like for my money spent on the breaks it did work out value wise - I spent most of it in a hit draft and ended up getting enough in card value as well as sets (as a set builder, the break did a lot of work on like...five of the mini or full-size sets I want to build and gave me a full run of full sized inserts) as well as a number of cards that probably could pull in a healthy amount of cash if sold. But many didn't and if you don't try to extract ALL the value out of what you're buying, there's so much that are $.25, $1, $2 cards that it really just gets bogged down, and that bar you have to clear gets higher.

And it's emblematic of really most of cards right now - Fanatics did address a lot of issues and it really hasn't fixed the disparity between value and cost, which when boxes were $50 and it was a whim that's not a big deal but when your cheap boxes are $100-$200, and your mid-tier boxes are $300-$500 - and it's so much easier to lose value than gain value even after cards are opened.

I dunno, I think I'm just bummed that the hobby of my youth is so much less accessible than it used to be and that there's no real push or effort to make it that way again.

 

[bradcote]

Sports cards feel, to me, like they're in a bit of a weird place right now.

For context, outside of Allen and Ginter (which is my binky) I largely stopped doing baseball breaks except - very occasionally - picking up the Sox in a team break for a new product in case I can get something fun. I do however try to keep up with the products just out of interest of the hobby on the whole and in case a player I really like does show up. Fanatics has done, a pretty good job IMO, at really shorting up some of the crappier elements Topps did. The auto lists generally have less junk, the card quality is better, I think card design overall is better, and the floor in a lot of these products is higher. The issue is that the 99.9% ceiling is lower than it has been in a while and the singles market really isn't picking it up to justify the ever increasing costs.

For instance, I was in about six cases of Ginter - which is the one set I still really collect for baseball as I love a lot of the design elements, the oddball inserts and minis, and just the whole experience of it. The 2024 product is much better than 2022. Autographs are more frequent and higher quality, the list of baseball signers are generally at least relevant MLB players and legends, They've added a few good looking chase cards that are tough but attainable in the Chrome parallels, the numbered Filigrees, as as well as some of the super long odds high end chases. I had a great time but it did also highlight a lot of what the problems are - it's very difficult to hit a card that makes the box justifiable cost wise, and there's not even enough boxes where you only lose a little bit. On my two personal boxes, I probably am only losing a little bit on each of them if I sold out, but from what I watched it seemed maybe 1 every 4-5 boxes had a card in it worth $100+ and maybe 1-2 cards a case that were over $200. And people just aren't paying enough for singles to float it along. A Vladdy Jr. auto was the 17th card selected in a five case (60 box) hit draft and one just sold for $43.A Patrick Bailey auto was around the 60th pick (so like best hit of the worst box or second best hit of a good box) and went for $18.

I do feel like for my money spent on the breaks it did work out value wise - I spent most of it in a hit draft and ended up getting enough in card value as well as sets (as a set builder, the break did a lot of work on like...five of the mini or full-size sets I want to build and gave me a full run of full sized inserts) as well as a number of cards that probably could pull in a healthy amount of cash if sold. But many didn't and if you don't try to extract ALL the value out of what you're buying, there's so much that are $.25, $1, $2 cards that it really just gets bogged down, and that bar you have to clear gets higher.

And it's emblematic of really most of cards right now - Fanatics did address a lot of issues and it really hasn't fixed the disparity between value and cost, which when boxes were $50 and it was a whim that's not a big deal but when your cheap boxes are $100-$200, and your mid-tier boxes are $300-$500 - and it's so much easier to lose value than gain value even after cards are opened.

I dunno, I think I'm just bummed that the hobby of my youth is so much less accessible than it used to be and that there's no real push or effort to make it that way again.

Your last paragraph sums it up quite nicely. I would love to buy a box of cards just to have fun ripping, but everything is way out of my price range. I have gotten to the point where I save my money for specific singles instead.

 

[Oil Can Dan]

Sports cards feel, to me, like they're in a bit of a weird place right now.

For context, outside of Allen and Ginter (which is my binky) I largely stopped doing baseball breaks except - very occasionally - picking up the Sox in a team break for a new product in case I can get something fun. I do however try to keep up with the products just out of interest of the hobby on the whole and in case a player I really like does show up. Fanatics has done, a pretty good job IMO, at really shorting up some of the crappier elements Topps did. The auto lists generally have less junk, the card quality is better, I think card design overall is better, and the floor in a lot of these products is higher. The issue is that the 99.9% ceiling is lower than it has been in a while and the singles market really isn't picking it up to justify the ever increasing costs.

For instance, I was in about six cases of Ginter - which is the one set I still really collect for baseball as I love a lot of the design elements, the oddball inserts and minis, and just the whole experience of it. The 2024 product is much better than 2022. Autographs are more frequent and higher quality, the list of baseball signers are generally at least relevant MLB players and legends, They've added a few good looking chase cards that are tough but attainable in the Chrome parallels, the numbered Filigrees, as as well as some of the super long odds high end chases. I had a great time but it did also highlight a lot of what the problems are - it's very difficult to hit a card that makes the box justifiable cost wise, and there's not even enough boxes where you only lose a little bit. On my two personal boxes, I probably am only losing a little bit on each of them if I sold out, but from what I watched it seemed maybe 1 every 4-5 boxes had a card in it worth $100+ and maybe 1-2 cards a case that were over $200. And people just aren't paying enough for singles to float it along. A Vladdy Jr. auto was the 17th card selected in a five case (60 box) hit draft and one just sold for $43.A Patrick Bailey auto was around the 60th pick (so like best hit of the worst box or second best hit of a good box) and went for $18.

I do feel like for my money spent on the breaks it did work out value wise - I spent most of it in a hit draft and ended up getting enough in card value as well as sets (as a set builder, the break did a lot of work on like...five of the mini or full-size sets I want to build and gave me a full run of full sized inserts) as well as a number of cards that probably could pull in a healthy amount of cash if sold. But many didn't and if you don't try to extract ALL the value out of what you're buying, there's so much that are $.25, $1, $2 cards that it really just gets bogged down, and that bar you have to clear gets higher.

And it's emblematic of really most of cards right now - Fanatics did address a lot of issues and it really hasn't fixed the disparity between value and cost, which when boxes were $50 and it was a whim that's not a big deal but when your cheap boxes are $100-$200, and your mid-tier boxes are $300-$500 - and it's so much easier to lose value than gain value even after cards are opened.

I dunno, I think I'm just bummed that the hobby of my youth is so much less accessible than it used to be and that there's no real push or effort to make it that way again.

Amen to this. And I'd add that the cost-analysis you're doing is based on the RIGHT NOW. As in, if you hit a good card you may get $200 for it today, but if you wait a few months or God forbid a year+ then you're really underwater. Aside from vintage collectors or staples like First Bowman everybody only cares about the latest shiny thing.

 

[Bergs]

Sports cards feel, to me, like they're in a bit of a weird place right now.

For context, outside of Allen and Ginter (which is my binky) I largely stopped doing baseball breaks except - very occasionally - picking up the Sox in a team break for a new product in case I can get something fun. I do however try to keep up with the products just out of interest of the hobby on the whole and in case a player I really like does show up. Fanatics has done, a pretty good job IMO, at really shorting up some of the crappier elements Topps did. The auto lists generally have less junk, the card quality is better, I think card design overall is better, and the floor in a lot of these products is higher. The issue is that the 99.9% ceiling is lower than it has been in a while and the singles market really isn't picking it up to justify the ever increasing costs.

For instance, I was in about six cases of Ginter - which is the one set I still really collect for baseball as I love a lot of the design elements, the oddball inserts and minis, and just the whole experience of it. The 2024 product is much better than 2022. Autographs are more frequent and higher quality, the list of baseball signers are generally at least relevant MLB players and legends, They've added a few good looking chase cards that are tough but attainable in the Chrome parallels, the numbered Filigrees, as as well as some of the super long odds high end chases. I had a great time but it did also highlight a lot of what the problems are - it's very difficult to hit a card that makes the box justifiable cost wise, and there's not even enough boxes where you only lose a little bit. On my two personal boxes, I probably am only losing a little bit on each of them if I sold out, but from what I watched it seemed maybe 1 every 4-5 boxes had a card in it worth $100+ and maybe 1-2 cards a case that were over $200. And people just aren't paying enough for singles to float it along. A Vladdy Jr. auto was the 17th card selected in a five case (60 box) hit draft and one just sold for $43.A Patrick Bailey auto was around the 60th pick (so like best hit of the worst box or second best hit of a good box) and went for $18.

I do feel like for my money spent on the breaks it did work out value wise - I spent most of it in a hit draft and ended up getting enough in card value as well as sets (as a set builder, the break did a lot of work on like...five of the mini or full-size sets I want to build and gave me a full run of full sized inserts) as well as a number of cards that probably could pull in a healthy amount of cash if sold. But many didn't and if you don't try to extract ALL the value out of what you're buying, there's so much that are $.25, $1, $2 cards that it really just gets bogged down, and that bar you have to clear gets higher.

And it's emblematic of really most of cards right now - Fanatics did address a lot of issues and it really hasn't fixed the disparity between value and cost, which when boxes were $50 and it was a whim that's not a big deal but when your cheap boxes are $100-$200, and your mid-tier boxes are $300-$500 - and it's so much easier to lose value than gain value even after cards are opened.

I dunno, I think I'm just bummed that the hobby of my youth is so much less accessible than it used to be and that there's no real push or effort to make it that way again.

If you ended up with 2 of either Yaz insert, hit me up.

 

[Fishercat]

[

Your last paragraph sums it up quite nicely. I would love to buy a box of cards just to have fun ripping, but everything is way out of my price range. I have gotten to the point where I save my money for specific singles instead.

The one that kinda broke me as a spectator recently was WNBA Select. WNBA cards are historically pretty cheap due to low general interest - and as such everything else followed low. This year Panini had a golden opportunity - holding the WNBA license and key autograph contracts - to really build a new young market. Clark in particular but the WNBA is having a huge moment with women, kids, and generally lower interest sports fans - three distinct markets that cards are lacking in (I was at a card show this weekend and it was busy...filled with middle aged and older men - very few kids and barely any women). WNBA Prizm's MSRP was $150 last year. Even with the cost of the Clark/Brink/Reese contracts and a healthy markup, I was figuring...maybe this is a $250 box. A price that while prohibitive, you could get to $20 a pack as a treat or a parent might shell out $250 to try and get their kid into it.

Select retailed at $900. More than the NBA. Completely freezing out any potential gains they had. I saw boxes of it at the same card show on shelves for $600 or $750 (which says the market is slacking it down a bit) and, like, I'll probably buy a nice Caitlin Clark at some point as a single, but it completely killed any chance for a normal collector to try and get one of these cards - never mind a kid.

But hey, if you do actually hit that Clark auto, you can sell it and after fees make a decent little profit on the box I guess?

I am guessing at some point they'll do Donruss WNBA and hopefully put out a box in the $100-$200 range or blasters but to me that felt like throwing away a golden opportunity to grow a new fanbase of card collectors. What should have been a massive moment for WNBA cards really didn't do anything.

Amen to this. And I'd add that the cost-analysis you're doing is based on the RIGHT NOW. As in, if you hit a good card you may get $200 for it today, but if you wait a few months or God forbid a year+ then you're really underwater. Aside from vintage collectors or staples like First Bowman everybody only cares about the latest shiny thing.

Absolutely an unstated portion. I'm not gonna sell the auto I hit in my box because my girlfriend bought the box and I keep any cards I get that she bought for me, but that went for $42 at auction and around $70ish on BINs. Give it two months and you can halve that guaranteed. Heck, even take first Bomwan autos. Dylan Crews - who debuted in the MLB this year and is still a Top 5 prospect - had his refractor Bowman Chrome 1st autos sit in safely in the 350-500 range after the initial peak in the 600s...only to have it drop below 200 as of now. And that's a card with PROVEN long term value if he is a star for a guy who is a Top 5 prospect and hasn't really done anything to dispel it outside of not destroying the MLB as a rookie call up.

Like, an obscene amount of value is tied up in being "first to market" or early to market on cards. One of my limited number of PCs is WWE Wrestler Roxanne Perez and I have a hard rule about not buying her singles early and then getting them for 50% or less of what folks paid earlier, wrestling is even more insane in that sense. And Topps releasing products constantly at a rapid pace is only making it worse. Ginter came out last Wednesday, Stadium Club is out tomorrow, Topps Chrome Update shortly, Topps Update a couple weeks back. It's all flooding the market.

I do think some Ginter cards in particular don't follow that trend (I can get into that but not the point) but that's also a bummer as a lot of the fun of collecting is...owning the card. Displaying it, seeing it, all of that. That you have to feel pressured to move it to a more permanent home immediately or lose half its value is insane.

If you ended up with 2 of either Yaz insert, hit me up.

None so far. Cycle Succession and In Action make the full size set hunt a nightmare. You get probably two a case and it's a 50 card set, so there's no real good way to build it and it's gonna drive master set builders insane. Absolutely a card worth buying the single over hunting if you're so inclined. I only did a six boxer for the Red Sox, and I'll likely do a couple more but honestly the Sox have been terrible in Ginter this year so I may not. The framed relics are among my favorite for retired players but also run pretty cheap so that hopefully won't be too bad to find, if I come across two of either I'll at you for sure.

 

[NJ_Sox_Fan]

Your last paragraph sums it up quite nicely. I would love to buy a box of cards just to have fun ripping, but everything is way out of my price range. I have gotten to the point where I save my money for specific singles instead.

That last paragraph is spot on. It’s ridiculous that boxes of Topps Flagship or Topps Chrome go for $200-$300+

Makes me just buy singles mainly which is much less fun than opening packs.

 

[Mugsy's Jock]

Anybody listen to the “Sports Cards Nonsense” pod on the Ringer? From the second I first heard it, I felt like collecting had passed me by.

The host, Mike Gioseffi, has all of Bill Simmons ego and thin skin, but none of Simmons’ talent and intelligence. (I believe the two of them are related.). He prattles on and on about high value cards, toadies Michael Rubin and Fanatics, and basically tells small timers who aren’t comfortable with the high price of the hobby or local card shops getting overwhelmed by digital distribution to quit whining and work harder. It’s just a bummer. (And the portions are so small.). Never any storytelling relating to the sport the people on the cards might inspire, nor the nostalgia value of the cards the,selves.)

I buy a few boxes of Topps Flagship every year, maybe some Stadium Club, and a Heritage box if I
like the design (and I usually do). Twice a year I go on a COMC shopping spree to scoop up vintage singles I want — yesterday I grabbed the 1966 AL league leaders for the triple crown categories, and the couple of Luis Tiant cards I was missing… all in somewhere between fair and very good condition. I can’t wait to get them, and show them to my sons.

 

[Bigdogx]

Watched a youtuber rip $200 worth of retail boxes and got a return of like 25 bucks, but that is adding .25 cent card after card, that would not even be worth the time loading up on ebay to sell. His user base screamed he needed to buy hobby boxes to really get something good in his comment section. So his next video was spending a grand on hobby boxes. He broke those out, think it ended up being like 4-5 boxes of different stuff and that returned maybe 150 bucks of that grand back with once again cards that mainly no one would want, so literally once again except this time over a grand with not much at all to show for it. I think the highest valued card he pulled from those 2 videos was like 15-20 bucks.

 

[Traut]

Yes, ripping is gambling without the possibility of real return like 99.9999999999999999% of the time.

You are almost certainly better off buying scratch tickets.

 

[Fishercat]

Anybody listen to the “Sports Cards Nonsense” pod on the Ringer? From the second I first heard it, I felt like collecting had passed me by.

The host, Mike Gioseffi, has all of Bill Simmons ego and thin skin, but none of Simmons’ talent and intelligence. (I believe the two of them are related.). He prattles on and on about high value cards, toadies Michael Rubin and Fanatics, and basically tells small timers who aren’t comfortable with the high price of the hobby or local card shops getting overwhelmed by digital distribution to quit whining and work harder. It’s just a bummer. (And the portions are so small.). Never any storytelling relating to the sport the people on the cards might inspire, nor the nostalgia value of the cards the,selves.)

I buy a few boxes of Topps Flagship every year, maybe some Stadium Club, and a Heritage box if I
like the design (and I usually do). Twice a year I go on a COMC shopping spree to scoop up vintage singles I want — yesterday I grabbed the 1966 AL league leaders for the triple crown categories, and the couple of Luis Tiant cards I was missing… all in somewhere between fair and very good condition. I can’t wait to get them, and show them to my sons.

In many ways that's the vibe of so much of the hobby right now and it really isn't fun. Another video series I watch is Spitballin Cards where they get four more notable online collectors in the online realm to discuss baseball card goings on. I tend to like it a bit more because even though they are clearly well off and financially focuses there's still a bit of an edge of, you know, liking sports cards for what they are. They have one of the Sports Card Investors guys on there and I've found his journey particularly interesting because he was definitely a big "Color Blast and Kaboom" type guy coming in, and over time, he's really grown to like baseball and the collectors and that they actually you know...like the sport or the teams. And even their conversations, as four people who seem to genuinely like baseball cards and not the Fanatics hype train of it all, usually come back to "Bowman 1st Value" with little regard to, you know, just the fun and vibes of collecting.

There is a comedian Dan Soder who is actually doing a little of this as part of a bit. He has other comedians on his show and as a bonus segment they open a pack of early 90s basketball, football, or baseball and just walk through the players and what Dan or the guests remember about them, it's a ton of fun.

Watched a youtuber rip $200 worth of retail boxes and got a return of like 25 bucks, but that is adding .25 cent card after card, that would not even be worth the time loading up on ebay to sell. His user base screamed he needed to buy hobby boxes to really get something good in his comment section. So his next video was spending a grand on hobby boxes. He broke those out, think it ended up being like 4-5 boxes of different stuff and that returned maybe 150 bucks of that grand back with once again cards that mainly no one would want, so literally once again except this time over a grand with not much at all to show for it. I think the highest valued card he pulled from those 2 videos was like 15-20 bucks.

Yes, ripping is gambling without the possibility of real return like 99.9999999999999999% of the time.

You are almost certainly better off buying scratch tickets.

To sort of echo this, I mentioned the hit draft above - five cases of product which probably would cost $7500 or so to acquire. So we take that as our baseline. Since it was a hit draft they had to list out everything that was hit that wasn't base cards. These were the Top 10 cards in my opinion in terms of value (not in terms of order chosen) - prices are around what I think they'd sell for right now - so depreciate a lot of these 25-50% if you did this in March.

Tim Robinson Base Auto (~$200)
Yoshinobu Yamamoto Red Auto /10 (~750 - no sold versions yet, so it's a guess)
Usain Bolt Auto (~600)
Hank Aaron Jumbo Rip Card (~200)
Mattingly/Teixeira Booklet (~400)
Gunnar Henderson Wood Mini (~400)
Roberto Clemente Glossy 1/1 (~200)
Yoshinobu Yamamoto Blue Frame Auto (~400)
Jackson Merrill Mini Orange /25 (~150)
Jackie Robinson Rip Card (~125)

So your Top 10 cards - before eBay fees, if you get them all sold around these prices, etc. take you to about 40% of your investment - probably closer to 30-35% with fees and variance.

Your next 25 or so cards are all probably in the $30-$100 range. It was a mix of rip cards, parallels of desirable names, solid autos, etc. If we average out to $50, that's probably about $1000-$1200 more after fees. From there your remaining 160 "hits" (singles) or so range from $1-$25 mostly - low end autos, relics of all different kinds, numbered cards of lesser hunted players, etc. Let's say it works out to $5 a card after fees, that's another $800. You then have twelve full size insert sets (Each one about $5-$10), a metric ton of minis of all different variances (most of them are 99 cent cards), a lot of chrome, etc. - so this is where it gets messy. How much work can you put in, how much can you sell that work for, and how many buyers can you find? So, to bigdog's point, that's SO much work to get there, and this was with two cases that produced some incredible cards (I think the Top 7 cards listed all came from two cases). So like, I think generally if a seller wants to put in ALL the elbow grease, you can scrape a lot of out these products...but at what cost, to be left with less money than you came in with and no cards? Like the Bolt and Yamamoto Red Autos represent so much of the value and are two cards that have a chance at genuinely holding long term value, so even if you just decided to keep those, making up that money would be real tough.

For instance, one "lot" is the 60-65ish "50 States" mini cards. The eBay sale value of that, if I listed them all individually at the $3 shipped value after fees probably eventually works out to a dollar a card after they're shipped, fees taken out, supplies taken out. So yeah, a $60 lot is a GREAT pickup where I got it in this draft, but that could be up to sixty envelopes packed, a ton of trips to the post office, and weeks or months or years to move it nevermind keeping it all organized. If I run it as lots it's less of that but probably works out to $.75 a card now as set builders are getting their bulk in. I'm set building but if I were to sell, that's another thing.

All of this to say like...this was a lot more fun when it didn't have to be about the money, but at the cost it's at it, it is now. And it feels silly that every card I listed up there but two of them could probably be gotten for the price of 2-3 boxes if someone really wanted it. I bought a Ledecky auto as a single for under $200. I think every auto in this set except the QBs and Bolt will probably end up below $200 by the endo f this. And to Traut's point...at least the scratchies can just be redeemed for cash immediately.

In totally unrelated news, Stadium Club is out today, so have fun y'all!

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

FWIW, we have another thread here devoted to Dan Soder's fiancee

 

[NJ_Sox_Fan]

Yes, ripping is gambling without the possibility of real return like 99.9999999999999999% of the time.

You are almost certainly better off buying scratch tickets.

But it’s so much fun!

 

[Fishercat]

FWIW, we have another thread here devoted to Dan Soder's fiancee

That Katie Nolan doesn't have a Ginter card is insane in its own right.

Also, one other (much smaller) problem with modern sets is the volume needed to complete them. I mentioned in the five case break I got a bunch of minis. So the mini sets are 30 or 50 card sets, and a lot of them are one or two per box cards. Over five cases, of the four sets of minis I got (so every mini in a given set over 60 boxes), i completed NONE of the four sets for those. I got 85-95% of the set but will need to buy singles to fill it in. And these aren't even like...the impossible to hit ones. You'll probably see a ballpark bites or 50 States card if you buy a blaster.

Completing the main set requires a bare minimum of three boxes, and realistically it's probably closer to six boxes and fill in with singles. I know set building isn't a thing as much any more, and the 85-95% output is what I expected, but imagine dropping $7500 on 60 boxes of sports cards and then needing to buy singles to fill in a lot of the sets.

 

[staz]

Making some headway on my '24 Heritage Sox fettish.

Lynn looks pretty young, and his sideburns are pretty long, so I'm thinking this photo was taken early in his career. Also, they did away with these double-knit clown suits, going back to a button down top starting in 1979. A black band was worn in memory of Yawkey from his passing (7/9/76) until the end of the 1976 season. During this time, the team wore that round "Massachusetts Bicentennial" patch on above their left shoulder on home unis only (explained here). I guess road grays could look this white in direct sunlight? And the stands and dugout top(?) don't look like Fenway either. With the pretty high sun angle, I'll go with 7/23/76, 7/24/76 or 7/25/76, while getting swept at NYY - close to Topps' photographers.

 

[NJ_Sox_Fan]

Making some headway on my '24 Heritage Sox fettish.

Lynn looks pretty young, and his sideburns are pretty long, so I'm thinking this photo was taken early in his career. Also, they did away with these double-knit clown suits, going back to a button down top starting in 1979. A black band was worn in memory of Yawkey from his passing (7/9/76) until the end of the 1976 season. During this time, the team wore that round "Massachusetts Bicentennial" patch on above their left shoulder on home unis only (explained here). I guess road grays could look this white in direct sunlight? And the stands and dugout top(?) don't look like Fenway either. With the pretty high sun angle, I'll go with 7/23/76, 7/24/76 or 7/25/76, while getting swept at NYY - close to Topps' photographers.

View attachment 92007

Those are great looking

 

[SocrManiac]

I’m cleaning out the basement and I am going to toss more baseball cards if nobody wants them. I have several binders of Red Sox team sets, mostly from the late 80’s and early 90’s. I’m located in northern CT. I’ll travel say 30 minutes from the Enfield area to meet up. If interested drop me a PM and I’ll give you some detail on what’s here.

 

[tonyandpals]

Anybody cracking any chrome update? I grabbed a few boxes at walmart for me and the kids. Looks like we got a case hit (1:3400) Jasson Dominguez "Sizzle". A few Skenes and Holliday cards which they were pretty pumped about. No debut patches though

 

[Fishercat]

I bought in to a handful of cheaper players in a large break for the lottery ticket patch chase. No luck, and honestly, while Breakers Delight and Jumbo Boxes seemed to be decent overall, Hobby might be the most miserable product I've seen in a long time. Low hit rates, a ton of terrible names in the base set and autographs, any of the nicer inserts are VERY difficult to hit. The price increases, spurred by the patch hunt, turned the product from bad in prior years to untenable. $300 (current market) is obscene - the number of players whose autographs get close to that are very low and you need a good serial numbering. The mega boxes are at least not as cost prohibitive but I couldn't bring myself to do it.

I don't want to be that negative since I think they've done some good things with update (more on-card autos is really nice, as I said the patch autos are insanely cool, etc.) but after one run with a break that was enough for me. Folks seem to be having fun with it though so happy for them.

 

[AlNipper49]

That Katie Nolan doesn't have a Ginter card is insane in its own right.

Also, one other (much smaller) problem with modern sets is the volume needed to complete them. I mentioned in the five case break I got a bunch of minis. So the mini sets are 30 or 50 card sets, and a lot of them are one or two per box cards. Over five cases, of the four sets of minis I got (so every mini in a given set over 60 boxes), i completed NONE of the four sets for those. I got 85-95% of the set but will need to buy singles to fill it in. And these aren't even like...the impossible to hit ones. You'll probably see a ballpark bites or 50 States card if you buy a blaster.

Completing the main set requires a bare minimum of three boxes, and realistically it's probably closer to six boxes and fill in with singles. I know set building isn't a thing as much any more, and the 85-95% output is what I expected, but imagine dropping $7500 on 60 boxes of sports cards and then needing to buy singles to fill in a lot of the sets.

That's OK. I'm collecting all of the cards of one of my backup wives, Erika Thompson.

It's an awful set for collecting money-wise of for completeness, but I like them. They're fun.

 

[Ale Xander]

That's OK. I'm collecting all of the cards of one of my backup wives, Erika Thompson.

That's gotta sting

 

[staz]

I’m cleaning out the basement and I am going to toss more baseball cards if nobody wants them. I have several binders of Red Sox team sets, mostly from the late 80’s and early 90’s. I’m located in northern CT. I’ll travel say 30 minutes from the Enfield area to meet up. If interested drop me a PM and I’ll give you some detail on what’s here.

PM sent

 

[staz]

Not usually a big fan of the pod, but Sports Card Nonsense episode about sports/historical cut autos is pretty cool.

 

[Fishercat]

I will say one of the benefits of this newer era of cards coming back is that we're actually getting decent discussion forums/mediums for the hobby that aren't purely people trying to push crap. Sports Card Nonsense are very Fanatics-shilly at times but can have good stuff, Spitballin Cards / Scottie B Cards is probably a little too high-end or "end-game" card focuses but there's a lot of knowledge on the panel and they produce thoughtful content pretty frequently. I enjoy Baseball Card Collector Investor Dealer when he posts - no video quality of note but great discussion. Let's Talk Wax has great Bowman takes (although his rating system is taken with some salt0. You have your usual rabblerousers of varying validity (Dan the Card Man, Sports Card Radio), and your hype people (Sports Card Investor, Packman, etc.) but there is a lot of stronger stuff out there.

I do think there's room for a high quality consistent product review page to really take a place in the Youtube sphere. The issue would probably be workload - with how products are in 2024-2025 you need time to review checklists, run spreadsheet odds, track market pricing, and honestly watch a lot of breaks to really get the full product impact and most don't have the time for it, but there isn't really a good centralizing page that does this right now. Most pages will break two prices, discuss retailing pricing, and just go on vibes.

 

[Fishercat]

This came up a bit before, but the NYT/Athletic has taken the dive on CT Scanning of Sealed Product - it makes a compelling case for how much of a problem this presents for very high end product as well as product held for long periods of time

How CT scanners are being used on trading cards: The ethical and legal issues it presents - The Athletic

 

[staz]

This came up a bit before, but the NYT/Athletic has taken the dive on CT Scanning of Sealed Product - it makes a compelling case for how much of a problem this presents for very high end product as well as product held for long periods of time

How CT scanners are being used on trading cards: The ethical and legal issues it presents - The Athletic

The days of reselling high-end unopened product are coming to a close. Scratch tickets too? Imaging tools like this are getting smaller, cheaper and will end up as an app on your iPhone 23.

 

[Mugsy's Jock]

A friend sent me this photo, which he called "a Bill Lee joint." I read that like "a Spike Lee joint", i.e a piece of sports memorabilia involving Bill Lee.

Until I realized it actually was a framed picture of Bill Lee, with an autographed Bill Lee joint. Belongs to the friend's dad.

 

[Oil Can Dan]

This came up a bit before, but the NYT/Athletic has taken the dive on CT Scanning of Sealed Product - it makes a compelling case for how much of a problem this presents for very high end product as well as product held for long periods of time

How CT scanners are being used on trading cards: The ethical and legal issues it presents - The Athletic

Perhaps I'm missing something but those scans don't seem to tell a lot about what is inside, do they? You can make out the top card and see the width of the rest of the cards, but that's it. Or am I missing something?

 

[ElcaballitoMVP]

Perhaps I'm missing something but those scans don't seem to tell a lot about what is inside, do they? You can make out the top card and see the width of the rest of the cards, but that's it. Or am I missing something?

The issue I see is with products like Flawless, where they have (typically) the 3 biggest hits separated from the rest of the cards. These cards can be worth a shit ton of money (i.e. Logoman's, RPA's, etc). You could definitely scan those and see which boxes have the big money hits in them, keep those for yourself and then sell the shitty ones to some unsuspecting customer.

 

[Fishercat]

Perhaps I'm missing something but those scans don't seem to tell a lot about what is inside, do they? You can make out the top card and see the width of the rest of the cards, but that's it. Or am I missing something?

You can, supposedly, go layer by layer and see every card

 

[bradcote]

I have been staring at this for over a year and finally got the deal I was hoping for to be able to pick it up. Living in Maine makes the Portland Sea Dogs styling extra cool.

 

[bradcote]

My goal is to get a collection of the starting 5 for the 1961 Fleer basketball Boston Celtics. This will take a while due to the cost of the cards (looking for low grade cards that still look half decent) and my budget is small, but I am going to try to pick away at it.

 

[SemperFidelisSox]

I got a couple of Amazon gift cards for Christmas and was thinking of buying some 2024 Topps packs or boxes. Has anyone had any good luck with cards from Amazon or is there some risk in the stuff maybe being opened and repackaged? I’ve never ordered cards from there before.

 

[AlNipper49]

Supposedly there is some risk. All the forums and crap my son is on people are very anti-Amazon. I’m not positive if that’s *actually* the case.

 

[Traut]

I got a couple of Amazon gift cards for Christmas and was thinking of buying some 2024 Topps packs or boxes. Has anyone had any good luck with cards from Amazon or is there some risk in the stuff maybe being opened and repackaged? I’ve never ordered cards from there before.

Go for it.

The reason Amazon gets a bad rap is mostly because it rips off unsuspecting grandmothers. Prices for boxes there are usually higher than they can be had elsewhere.

Obviously you have gift cards so who cares if you spend 10% more than you may somewhere else.

Regarding boxes being opened and repackaged that is very unlikely. Way too
much effort for most Topps products excluding the very high end stuff that would not likely ever hit Amazon anyhow.

Most people I know would never buy individual packs and here’s why.

Many packs come from Hobby boxes. There is 1-2 hits in a hobby box in general. These things are autographs and relics. Once that card has been pulled a seller can safely offload the other packs in the box as they don’t have the hits.

On an even bigger level, hobby boxes are sold in cases. There are also case hits. Once the case hit is found the other boxes can be sold as the case hit is the most valuable card in a lot of hobby boxes.

In both cases there’s no reason to open and reseal.

There doesn’t mean that there can’t be good or even great cards in a box or case where the case hit has been found.

Some people think that there are more reputable resellers like Dave and Adam’s that don’t play the cherry pick the case hit game but who knows.

Many people online believe that Topps cherry picks set hits to put them in the hands of breakers. Again, no real evidence of this. Breakers just open a shit ton of cards.

TL;DR spend your gift card on cards on Amazon. The most likely thing is you are paying some small premium.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

Somewhat related story:

I bought a cheap box of pokemon cards a few years ago for my kids on Amazon. The price was real low so I knew they were probably fake cards, but I didn't care because the fakes have gotten so good now that most people - especially a 6 and 8 year old - can't tell the difference.

The cards came, were in a genuine booster box, had legit wrapping on the cards (but the tearable part was reversed and harder to open), and as suspected the cards were really good fake copies. But I was happy because almost every pack had a really "expensive" rare card in it from the set ("Dad! We got a God box!!"), so it was a win for me. I let them keep their expensive fake cards in their room to get destroyed, they had fun opening them, and I spent like a fifth of the price for the cards.

In short, if the deal seems to good to be true for cards on Amazon, it is. But you'll probably be fine if the price is comparable and the sellers reputation is solid.

Edit - the reason I say "somewhat related story" is because I knew there was a risk of fake cards in the pokemon industry, especially with Chinese/Japanese sellers. So much so that my expectation was for them to be fake, not for me to be getting a deal. I'm not sure if that's the case/relevant in the sports card market.

 

[SemperFidelisSox]

Thanks for the advice guys.

I‘m gonna buy a Topps Stadium Club box. The Chrome Update one is way too expensive.

I wasn’t gonna find the Skenes debut patch card anyway.

 

[tonyandpals]

Seems like the markup on the amazon stuff is crazy. Is that in the name of convenience? Might be better off turning your gift cards into cash. I didn't know this was a thing, but apparently you can deposit them into your bank account. Then just grab them (topps chrome update) on ebay for like $80 shipped vs. $110 on amazon.

 

[Fishercat]

Re: Amazon - just make sure you don't go too far into the third party seller realm. Also check prices against other retailers - Overpaying on Amazon because you have a gift card is fine if you can't convert it or whatever, but Amazon is a prime place for scammers reselling opened/resealed/fraudulent product. Everyone else is on point otherwise, and there is a big difference between like a 10% overprice and a 50% overprice.

 

[Fishercat]

WWE cards are entering a very interesting timeframe - the Panini era is coming to an end. For the 2022-2024 cycles, Panini had the WWE license (and Upper Deck had the AEW License), so Topps was boxed out of pro wrestling products. And wrestling saw a huge boom in what has otherwise been a "decline from COVID peak" cards market.

For the last four months we've seen about 80k sales per month of wrestling cards on major auction/marketplaces. This compares to 10-20k a month for most of 2022 and 2023. Sales of $500+ cards have nearly doubled from 2022 and 2023 and are 20x more than 2021. $1000 sales have exceeded the 2022 Prizm insanity and are substantially above 2020-2021. A ton of this aligns with the revival of the WWE post-McMahon but also is a credit to what Panini did with WWE cards - which was make them feel on level with cards from other major sports or at least closer to it. WWE Topps was largely an afterthought - they got a few baseline sets (Hertiage, Topps Chrome) as well as some specialty sets but it was usually a second thought with a limited scope except for Transcendent - as well as more younger collector focused elements (Slam Attax). This was also before the Fanatics acquisition where Topps was in a pretty lazy place. The upside is that it was cheap - they had WWE Undisputed which was a $200 box with 8 on-card autos and 2 relics, but it was never taken too seriously, but there was very little revolutionary about the product.

Those days are done for sure - Fanatics has taken a notable interest in WWE merchandising wise and in terms of a partnership, the WWE section at Fanatics Fest was one of the most popular and highlighted areas of the show, and there's clearly been a major uptick in pro wrestling interest. As such, we'd probably expect changes in the cards too. We've gotten official previews of Topps Chrome as well as fairly informed speculation that Topps Chrome will be around the price of WWE Prizm and Select in a fairly similar format (12 packs a box, 8 cards a pack, 2 autos a box) - mixed bag on card quality (some of them look good and some look terrible) but they certainly seem to be aiming for the market Panini set. The real question is going to be can they keep the momentum. UFC fans have been unhappy with the Panini to Topps transition and some of the things Panini has done - like having a good chance at hitting the biggest names on autographs, the popular Prizm/Select rainbows, and generally keeping numbered cards fairly low (/499 really being the highest we've seen). As much as Panini is generally disliked in other areas, WWE collectors are used them and like them by and large, so it'll be a challenge.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

Thanks for that info. I had originally thought WWE cards were just a short term money grab, so i didn't pay much attention when people talked about them. Sounds like something I should be keeping an eye on (especially since my kids love WWE).

 

[Fishercat]

Thanks for that info. I had originally thought WWE cards were just a short term money grab, so i didn't pay much attention when people talked about them. Sounds like something I should be keeping an eye on (especially since my kids love WWE).

The risk definitely exists that it's a fad or it'll ebb and flow, but we are at the point where the right cards are nearing or entering high four and low five figure territory. A Patreon I follow will track some notable sales, the last newsletter had a $7500 1/1 Hogan auto, a $2700 Trick Williams 1/1, and 1/1s of Bray Wyatt, Triple H, and Cora Jade over 1k (as well as a Cody Rhodes PSA10 rookie). A Liv Morgan auto cracked the 10k barrier earlier this year. I'll say I don't really buy into all of it (wrestling collectors right now are being foolish with their money in many different areas - presently in Flawless breaks) but it's definitely closer to the big sports now than it's ever been before in terms of cards value and collectability.

I've been building a collection of Roxanne Perez cards and her last few 1/1s have cleared 1.5k per card and even her /10 cards tend to be $100-$300 all day and she's probably a fringe Top 20 name in terms of collectible value right now. Giulia's had three Panini cards clear 1k on eBay already, more than that off the service. There's real money in there and people hunting it*

*Note: I couldn't in good faith recommend those Giulia prices or even the higher end Roxy prices like...as an investment or choice, but I know the people buying these and I know they're legitimate sales going into PCs. WWE is super PC heavy/driven so once a wrestlers gets 3+ high rollers who collect them and will bid up each other for the biggest stuff, prices really start to get driven up. WWE Flawless just came out and she has two Gem Logo cards - I know the three buyers now who will be gathering funds to make an offer for that to whoever pulls it, in addition to the more general Flawless collectors out there. It also makes it more challenging to maximize your value as it's a matter of finding the collector in a lot of cases as opposed to just letting the market do its work...and if a collector isn't there, the card just isn't going to do the work. Like, every NBA and MLB team has fans and collectors, but every wrestler does not.

 

[JimywockyTranslator]

Wrestling cards are definitely an interesting niche. When I came back to the hobby I started with baseball cards and quickly got priced out of those with all the prospect chasers/breakers driving up the prices out of my range. I then moved on to wrestling cards and over the past two years have noticed that:

• Panini is churning out a ton of sets recently trying to maximize their license so some sets get passed through quickly while everyone moves onto the next one. It's been hard for everyone to keep up with the latest releases since they're essentially on top of each other so there's definitely opportunities to find affordable sets.
• Like many sports, sales on eBay right after release are pretty high but then significantly decline once people have moved onto the next release. If you're PC'ing a certain wrestler and can be patient then you're better off waiting 3 months after release to grab what you're looking for. I'm sure this is similar for other sports, but I haven't seen anything like it before like I have with wrestling.
• Graded cards (some exceptions obviously) don't typically add much in terms of value when it comes to modern wrestling cards. I don't know of anyone in the community that will willingly pay a premium for a PSA 10 on any cards like I do with other sports. I personally prefer to buy raw anyways.
• If you're not beholden to WWE, the prices on AEW cards have fallen off a cliff so there's been some great buying opportunities if there's anyone there you PC. I never thought I'd be in a position to chase all of the red Precious Metal Gems from 2022 Metal Universe, but the box prices/card values minus a few stars (i.e. Sting and MJF) have fallen off a cliff where you can get cards that originally would sell for ~$100 for $20 or less.

 

[Fishercat]

The pricing arc is...interesting. Like you're correct, and I think in other sports it does happen, but it can be particularly brutal in wrestling cards especially for products that don't historically carry a lot of value. I have seen cards regularly lose 50% of their value off peak, maybe even 70% of value, and it's not even because a wrestler isn't succeeding...it's just that wrestler has two major collectors and this is the sixth version of that card that got posted.

The wrestling issue is also complicated in the window that I find the window / pricing arc works until about the /25 print runs. Once you hit /25, then suddenly that arc may be shortened or may not happen - but it's not consistent and there's not really a good way to tell until you either find out you overpaid or you wait for months and a card doesn't show up. Golds of big names might have six eBay listings or zero depending on who gets the cards, how social they are in the community, or how motivated they are to sell. Stuff under that? Better hope you see it before their super collectors do or that the person who hit it can't be found. Like, for Becky Lynch for instance, I think gellman has every single Prizm 1/1. If that card is hit and you don't hit it...you better know it was hit or it's gone forever. For Roxanne stuff, I have one 1/1 that I hit personally. I'd say about 30% of the other ones hit an open market materially (auction or eBay) and 70% were funneled via private sale to one of a handful of deep pocketed collectors or kept by the person who got it. Even for cards in the /5 to /10 range...you may see 5 of them hit eBay or Facebook or LCS posts or you may see zero, so the window can either be huge or non existent.

I don't know if it's that different than other sports but I feel like wrestling folks are PC driven SO much more than other sports (likely due to the individual nature of the game) that things get funky. Like, if you buy the Red Sox in a break but you're not a huge Wade Boggs guy, you might put up an amazing Wade Boggs for sale. If you're a Rhea Ripley guy and you hit an amazing Rhea Ripley, you're not selling that card.

The graded thing is interesting because there are definitely some bigger names in the WWE collecting sphere starting to push that a bit, but yeah - you only really ever get punished for grades unless you get a 10 and the reward is often barely worth it. I think grading for value is really limited to things like Prizm Golds, condition sensitive cards (like the Elite Die-Cuts, Photogenic), and maybe things like Green Pulsar Autos where people might be deciding between 10s of different kinds.

 

[staz]

So I'm helping another SoSHer sell his collection that includes an impressive collection of Red Sox cards. Figure I'd let this group have first dibs before it goes to FB and eBay. Send a PM for photos. Price includes shipping to US address.

Lot of (408) Roger Clemens, all Red Sox, mixed years, mixed brands, 360 are standard size, 48 are larger or smaller than standard size: $150
Lot of (55) Wade Boggs, all Red Sox, mixed years, mixed brands: $30
Lot of (752) 1981-1990s Red Sox commons, minor stars, few late-career Yaz, few Rice, mixed years, mixed brands: $70
Lot of (108) 1950s -1980 Red Sox commons, minor stars, mixed years, mixed brands $50

All 4 lots (1,323): $250

 

[zenax]

Anyone familiar with this card? Topps Departures -- Jon Lester To Chicago (from the A's) On the reverse, it says, "Season Ticket Holder".
You need to scroll down the link a little to get to the image.
Front of card

All I found on a search was "extremely rare" on eBay but no price. Since I somehow have one, I'd like to find out what it is worth.