SportsCenter & OTL Bringing Back Spygate (live, 9AM)
- Thread starter Lose Remerswaal
- Start date
Otis Foster said:
Exactly right. That is a Pandora's box that Dan Rooney (to cite the most prominent example) will not - can not - open.Stitch01 said:
We need to come up with a list of all "controversies" over the past 5-10 years and somehow compare them with the coverage that they are receiving on ESPN.
SeoulSoxFan said:
He completely cornered the guy, got him to back down and then yelled at him to rollout like he was a dog. Minihame completely owned him and the guy honestly deserved it.
I'll be honest: I think this disappears in a few days. The story dropped, but it's the kind of thing that doesn't have legs. Even my friends who were giving me endless shit for it stopped last night and haven't continued today - friends who LIVE for this kind of thing. I think people are burned out on Patriots-hate. You'll still have morons who push an agenda, but mostly? I think is gone for the most part by next week.
MLBAlNipper49 said:
Cardinals hack
Multiple pitchers with foreign substances
Mitchell Report
Owner collusion
Marlins stadium swindle
MLB threatens contraction of Twins to benefit Brewers/Selig
Skydome sign stealing
NHL
Mike Danton
Todd Bertuzzi
Enforcer suicides
Boots Del Biaggio ownership
Multiple illegal contracts to circumvent salary cap
NBA
Tim Donaghy
Donald Sterling
Atlanta Hawks email controversy
Sacramento Kings sale
Bucks stadium swindle
Isaiah Thomas Knicks
Kobe getting German surgery
NFL
Cowboys/Washington Cap penalties
2011 lockout issues
Concussion Settlement
Mike Tomlin Trip
Jimmy Haslem/Pilot J
Wilf lawsuits
Colts Crowd noise
Jim Irsay
Atlanta crowd noise
Browns texting
Multiple teams tampering
This is somewhat clever:
https://www.facebook.com/darin.weeks/media_set?set=a.10153137719783733.1073741856.503393732&type=3
https://www.facebook.com/darin.weeks/media_set?set=a.10153137719783733.1073741856.503393732&type=3
http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/patriots-never-bothered-to-steal-jets-playbook
--Woody blasts Pats for disinterest in Jets playbook.
--Woody blasts Pats for disinterest in Jets playbook.
dcmissle said:
Just to be clear, the one time I used it (and I know defamation law quite well) it was in reference to a claim ESPN had posted as a fact on a sidescreen the claim that the Patriots stole a playbook. The speaker and defamatory content are clear in that case (assuming there is not proof of such actions, of course, which there currently does not appear to be). Knowledge of falsity is uncertain; reckless disregard potentially viable IF the words in the article and the words in the sidescreen on TV are materially different. I do not think the Patriots are likely to win that case; however, that is the first time (if what was asserted in the thread is true) that there is a statement a reasonable lawyer would consider acting upon in some way.
I've joined you in whack-a-mole on the many silly claims around defamation claims and am sure those will continue to sprout up...the solution here is likely a combination of back-channel pressure on NFL and league owners to move on for the good of all; some strength and skill shown around more active PR; and perhaps some back-channel discussions with ESPN about fairness and the next TV contract.
No. Belichick said his misunderstanding of the rule was that they COULD still tape from their location as long as they did not use the video they taped for that SAME game. They would tape and then analyze the tapes after the game to try and figure out signals for the future. He stated they never used them for the same game.Oil Can Dan said:
Sorry, but I'm loving this.
I really am.
As Patriots fan from the late 1960's and former season ticket holder, considering all the nonsense I've seen, this is delicious.
Everyone is going batshit crazy trying to figure out how this current edition of the sad sack Patriots has been so good for so long, it's driving people to drink.
My next door neighbor is a Steelers fan; he asked me yesterday if I saw the story on ESPN; I told him I don't watch ESPN, he proceeded to tell me "Someone down there is going to get suspended over this latest Spygate story, Belichick might be gone for the year" to which I replied "Maybe you'll get lucky and they'll suspend him in time for the game Thursday night", he just turned and walked away talking to himself.
That's what a lot of opposing fans are doing; walking around talking to themselves. Jealousy is really a wasted emotion, best of luck to them all.
Soak it all in fellas, don't get worked up, mad or upset over this; embrace it, bask in it and enjoy it for as long as this current run lasts as nothing lasts forever.
As another poster said, there is no such thing as a lovable winner.
I really am.
As Patriots fan from the late 1960's and former season ticket holder, considering all the nonsense I've seen, this is delicious.
Everyone is going batshit crazy trying to figure out how this current edition of the sad sack Patriots has been so good for so long, it's driving people to drink.
My next door neighbor is a Steelers fan; he asked me yesterday if I saw the story on ESPN; I told him I don't watch ESPN, he proceeded to tell me "Someone down there is going to get suspended over this latest Spygate story, Belichick might be gone for the year" to which I replied "Maybe you'll get lucky and they'll suspend him in time for the game Thursday night", he just turned and walked away talking to himself.
That's what a lot of opposing fans are doing; walking around talking to themselves. Jealousy is really a wasted emotion, best of luck to them all.
Soak it all in fellas, don't get worked up, mad or upset over this; embrace it, bask in it and enjoy it for as long as this current run lasts as nothing lasts forever.
As another poster said, there is no such thing as a lovable winner.
I agree. The story has served its purpose- it got Goodell's spanking by a federal judge off the front page and made sure that the last major plot line of the offseason wasn't Brady's victory, but the shadiness of Patriots. With the fantasy football season starting tomorrow night, the league and ESPN will allow this to fade into the background. I may be shortsighted here, but I think it's clear that the NFL and their media partner coordinated this as simply a way to shift the narrative and not as any launching point for a new round of investigations.CaptainLaddie said:
This is in the category of needing to be careful of what you wish for.DrewDawg said:
If such thing happens, it will likely be related to the league's handling of injuries and concussions. or the welfare of former NFL players. Several examples will be noted, and one of them will involve a player for the Patriots, and it will be the Patriots that will get the coverage and Belichick/Kraft will share in the blame somehow.
Hoya81 said:
Don't forget Javaris Crittenton, who threatened Gilbert Arenas with a gun in the locker room and went on to join the Crips while being an active player and kill a mother of 4 who was an innocent bystander to his attempted hit on a rival gang member who stole his necklace. And he was also arrested for narcotics trafficking.
loshjott said:
Very creative, but I think BB was only involved in The Last Supper and the Lincoln Assassination.
And you know, Tiger Woods' wife attacking him with a golf club on Thanksgiving. WWL handled that with the biggest kid gloves they could find. Same for the Favre dick pic story, although the tabs had fun with that one.
Guys, there are football players in high school and college racking up concussions, or worse, on an almost daily basis, and each case now brings a headline. In addition, you have a rookie WR retiring because he got a concussion. There is a fucking Will Smith movie called "Concussion" being released this season.
The league is now in permanent "Look over here, not there!" mode. It will always be some bullshit that the NFL will need to scream loud about to cover up the noise of the meat grinder in the back room. Other leagues don't have that problem, they can make things go away or quiet down because they don't have the same issue.
The league is now in permanent "Look over here, not there!" mode. It will always be some bullshit that the NFL will need to scream loud about to cover up the noise of the meat grinder in the back room. Other leagues don't have that problem, they can make things go away or quiet down because they don't have the same issue.
The Four Peters said:
To be fair, Tocchet was only the money guy. (Well, that and he supplied access to Wayne Gretzky's wife, who was apparently a compulsive gambler and lost a million or so to Tocchet's group.) And his partner was a NJ state trooper, so it's not like he was operating outside of the law ...
Still astonishes me that Tocchet has been reinstated and Gretzky was never touched by it.
I was truly angry when I read about what ESPN was doing and then I realized -- wait a minute, who the fuck cares?
I haven't watched ESPN in years except for a live event and once it is over I shut it off. They just put out noise at this point. It's a network best watched with your wallet clenched in your teeth to stave off an epileptic fit from all the scrolls running up and down the screens.God help you if you want to get a score and a simple breakdown of the game. Their formula is so tired, too -- I say one thing, then you say the opposite, I pick a team and you pick the other and we argue about it.
They are hurtling towards irrelevance. The only thing that keeps them from oblivion are the live events. And their demise is hastened as those contracts start to open up with over-the-top services. They better outbid other outfits or they will be toast.
I haven't watched ESPN in years except for a live event and once it is over I shut it off. They just put out noise at this point. It's a network best watched with your wallet clenched in your teeth to stave off an epileptic fit from all the scrolls running up and down the screens.God help you if you want to get a score and a simple breakdown of the game. Their formula is so tired, too -- I say one thing, then you say the opposite, I pick a team and you pick the other and we argue about it.
They are hurtling towards irrelevance. The only thing that keeps them from oblivion are the live events. And their demise is hastened as those contracts start to open up with over-the-top services. They better outbid other outfits or they will be toast.
I can remember pre-Belichick Patriots, but not pre-Kraft Patriots, and this is how I feel. I'm loving every minute of this. It's been a great ride for me, even in the Parcells and Carroll years, and it's hard to imagine caring about a mediocre team like what the Patriots used to be. If this were to happen because of Brady and Belichick retiring it would be a sad story of time consuming everything, but if it happens because of vindictive NFL offices and jealous competitors leading to massive penalties for small or nonexistent violations, as in Spygate and Ballghazi, then I might just be happy packing up my bags and going home.Section15Box113 said:
ESPN spent months being declined to comment by current and former NFL personnel so that they could break an 8-year-old "news" story that they've already misreported on and retracted. At this point, when I hear things like this from the rest of the country, it's automatically wordfiltered to "why is New England so much better than us?" All anyone can really do is shrug. What can any of us do? It's not going to go away.
If everyone else wants to make themselves look like idiots, then we have to just let them. Embrace the hate and love every moment of it. Personally I'm hoping for more. Let's make America -gate again.
Happy to be shown differently but I've not seen where Belichick said he thought he was allowed to tape from the sidelines. Best I know he said "“As the commissioner acknowledged, our use of sideline video had no impact on the outcome of last week’s game. We have never used sideline video to obtain a competitive advantage while the game was in progress.".Gambler7 said:
So as I said, spygate was all about taping from the sideline and then attempting to bring that tape and recorder into the locker room at halftime. The whole having access to these signals at halftime of the in-progress game is what that was all about. I always get confused when people say things like "if they had been taping from the press box then it wasn't even illegal". Ummm, yeah....but so what?
I'm an Eagles. I'm open to evidence of cheating in SB39 exceeding gamesmanship. That being said, I want proof. Otherwise I relive the most glaring example of McNabb's clock mismanagement. Eagles, down a field goal, starting at their own 5 with 0:46 remaining and no timeouts. McNabb takes the snap, surveys the field, and throws a ball to Brian Westbrook, at the line of scrimmage in the center of the field and tackled after a 1 yard gain. The play burned 24 seconds off the clock. That's what I remember from SB39 and it fucking pisses me off.
Oil Can Dan said:
So what if they had the tapes to analyze at halftime? Assume that was their intent in pointing their cameras at the opposing sideline. They're supposed to have been able to review ~90 minutes worth of tape (unedited), match it all up to the plays and formations on the field (requiring more tape review and/or extensive notetaking), analyze and decipher what the signals mean, and implement the knowledge into the 2nd half gameplan, all in the 15 minute period that is halftime?
It's a ridiculous premise all around. It is NOT what the Patriots were accused of doing. It isn't what they were punished for doing. Though for some reason, it persists as the believed reason all of this shit has gone down.
Goodell was pissed off because the Patriots continued to do something right after he sent a memo to all the teams telling them to stop. Whether everyone did it before then, or whether the Pats got any competitive advantage are totally irrelevant.
I have to believe the Pats have something on another team(s). When do they drop a bomb on the Ravens? Please let it be the Ravens!
The ESPN stuff is garbage but I actually enjoyed the SI article. I like that the Pats have other teams paranoid.
The ESPN stuff is garbage but I actually enjoyed the SI article. I like that the Pats have other teams paranoid.
Here you go. He explains the whole thing in detail. You have it the exact opposite from what it was. It is about 4 minutes in.Oil Can Dan said:
https://youtu.be/Hyg9BhqESxU
All good. Moving on.
I know better than to try to take the other side of this conversation here so I'm not going to try. I'll just say that I believe a tremendous competitive advantage in having down & distance, signal and blitz & coverage schemes available for 12 minutes in the middle of a game. And it's not 90 minutes worth of tape to review, it would be more like 5 as you're not recording downtime. And you could easily view a handful of plays in an effort to single out the call for any particular blitz or coverage in short order.Red(s)HawksFan said:
What would the "proof" of cheating do for you? Would it change how angry you were about how poorly the clock was managed and how much of a pussy McNabb was? I mean this seriously, because it confuses me when people say this in retrospect. Would it truly make you feel better about losing the Superbowl?natpastime162 said:
Also, I'm a Pats fan. I'm also open to evidence of cheating in SB39 exceeding gamesmanship. By the Eagles, of course.
I would enjoy this if we didn't keep losing draft picks. Also, who is to say that constantly having these distractions right before the SB hasn't hurt? Sure, they beat the Hawks last year. But maybe Belichick having to waste time getting interviewed by the NFL the day before the 2007 SB actually hurt game preparations in some manner?
And if it was just fans few would care. But the league office, and apparently some among the owners, actually do seem to be out to get the Pats. What's next?
And if it was just fans few would care. But the league office, and apparently some among the owners, actually do seem to be out to get the Pats. What's next?
Oil Can Dan said:
It's been a while, but IIRC during the investigation of Spygate it was found that the cameras and films the Pats had were not able to do rapid processing like that. I remember thinking it odd, but that stands out in my mind, that it wasn't possible to film in the first half and then produce the film and decipher it all during halftime.
That's not what it said. It said all "controversies" (not all other team "controversies"). If you're going to compare coverage, it's worth seeing if a Patriot murdering someone garnered more coverage than say Jovan Belcher (specifically in how the team bears responsibility for not recognizing a troubled player.)DrewDawg said:
Even Matt Walsh, who seemed like he had a bone to pick with the Pats, said he gave the tapes to Ernie Adams after the game, and that there was no rush or urgency for him to deliver them.Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
Pretty sure they would have to edit the tape to get it down to five minutes and trying to do all of that during a 12 minute halftime isn't really an easy thing to do. Particularly for something that is super easy to thwart if teams suspected the Pats are doing it by switching a signal or two.Oil Can Dan said:
Red(s)HawksFan said:
Right, these were actual physical tapes, as well. It wasn't digital. They couldn't just jump around to spots in the video instantly.
I believe that Goodell even referenced that they weren't using the tapes in game in his punishment.
I mean, I could be wrong, it's been 8 years after all. But somehow I remember that.rodderick said:
RIFan said:
Well, I can't speak to what the other poster actually typed, but I believe he was talking about how controversies that had to do with other teams were covered in comparison to how they are covered when they are Patriots.
And yes, Aaron Hernandez got more coverage than Jovan Belcher. Which, again, is his point.
Goodell is so full of shit that nothing he says is remotely credible. He presumably wanted to hammer the Pats without calling into question the fundamental integrity of a population of NFL games. Whether the Pats really did use the tapes in-game or not had probably had no bearing whatsoever on Goodell's claim.Hendu for Kutch said:
The NFL's stance is basically that the Patriots cheat, so go ahead and make a big deal out of that, but it also hasn't really impacted the outcome of any games, so let's not call into question any actual results.
DrewDawg said:
Hernandez definitely killed one person, very possibly killed 4 or 5, and was taken alive and sentenced to life in prison after a long media cycle.
Belcher killed himself and another. Once he shot himself that pretty much ended the media story, and that shouldn't surprise anyone. He was dead, there was no trial to cover or anything like that.
I'm not sure the situations are truly comparable.
The original text of the bylaw under prohibited conduct:Oil Can Dan said:
There was a quite a bit of ink spilled exactly what the bolded phrase meant. The confusion was due to the fact that teams were allowed to use videotaping equipment according to the NFL's Policy Manual governing Game Operations. So Belichick concluded that the phrase meant that as long as the tapes were not used during a game, recording from the sidelines was permissible. The Patriots were not alone in this either. Jimmy Johnson confirmed that it was indeed a common practice during the Tagliabue era.
Belichick himself stated many times that the team did not use the tapes during a game, and Goodell even mentioned this when he announced the team's and coach's punishments. We can discuss the practicalities of whether such tape could be used at halftime, but again no evidence was ever found that these tapes were used at halftime, so that discussion would be moot anyway.
Fast forward to 2006, and a memo was sent that stated that video taping is not allowed in "the coaches booth, on the field, or in the locker room". Belichick made the faulty assumption that videotaping from the sidelines was still OK as long as the tapes were not used during the game. Or, Belichick decided to blow off the memo completely, and instead directed Ernie Adams to have the camera operators attempt to stay innocuous or disguise themselves. Either way, what Belichick did was wrong, and he and the team were actually, you know, punished for it, regardless of the claims of the ESPN report.