The SI piece that just so happens to coincide with this article is a direct attack on New England. As we can safely assume the timing of these articles is not mere coincidence, I'm going to disagree with you. They're both hitjobs that center around "Pats are big cheatie cheats, and you don't know the half of it! Well, neither do we, but look at these accusations from 50+ sources who have lost repeatedly to the Patriots over the past 15 years."SemperFidelisSox said:
SportsCenter & OTL Bringing Back Spygate (live, 9AM)
- Thread starter Lose Remerswaal
- Start date
On the next episode of Outside The Lines: Allegations of the Patriots cheating in order to make it rain, snow, windy, and below 32 degrees. Unnamed owners say they got cheated out of wins. Punishment rumored to be a $5 million fine and 5 first round picks.
PedroKsBambino said:
Really, filing false documentation to Congressional committees and obstructing their investigations isn't a felony? Why would any company ever comply with one? (I'm genuinely curious here, I'm not being a wiseass (for a change))
The article spends 10 thousand of its 11 thousand words talking about every single imaginary infraction you can conjure up and about 500 words on the effect that had on the deflategate punishment. If the author of this piece didn't intend for it to be a platform through which teams could air their grievances about the Patriots, he failed miserably. By the end of the article so much shit has been smeared on Belichick and the Pats that Goodell's overreaction to deflategate almost sounds like a reasonable response to the rampant cheating that has gone unpunished for more than a decade.SemperFidelisSox said:
nighthob said:
Look dude, nothing was "filed with a committee." Lying to a Senator is not a crime. There was no official investigation, and no oaths.
Youkilis vs Wild said:
You really think that both organizations, with deep ties to the NFL both randomly decided to release pieces on something 8 years old, within hours of each other?
Do you think the NFL, SI, and ESPN really can't coordinate something? The "how" is puzzling?
nighthob said:
nighthob said:
A few points:
- It's routine for a 30 minute report like this to take a couple of months to produce.
- Having said this, the timing was not accidental. It was absolutely produced to coincide with the beginning of the regular season.
- The fact that it came out a few days after Berman's ruling strikes me as being pure coincidence. (No one knew back in July that Berman would rule this quickly.)
- What you are identifying as a felony is nothing of the sort. It's evidence that (8 years later) Martz thinks the document was edited.
If it was truly a report on the NFL and Goodell and their actions, why rehash all this Spygate crap? Or add in all the new speculation? It doesn't really help the narrative, but rather give support to the NFL follow up with DeflateGate.
ESPN isn't even pretending to be calling the shots when it comes to the NFL anymore. It is a puppet.dcmissle said:
They don't, the NFL coordinates with them separately. Seriously, you think the timing of everything is mere chance? After Berman's decision, right before the opener, two at the same time? Some of this stuff is 8 years plus old.Youkilis vs Wild said:
They're competitors. And the Patriots just had a controversial offseason, and will be kicking off the NFL season in two days--it doesn't shock me that either organization had the pieces planned for this week.DrewDawg said:
The ESPN article is littered with issues -- the Faulk bit stands out the most egregiously to me. The SI piece does not read that ugly, in my opinion. "Patriots are in NFL coaches' heads" is quite a far ways off from the substance of ESPN report.
DrewDawg said:
I agree with your perspective.
SI and ESPN may not have coordinated their reporting, but there's no way they both release stories like this (taking weeks/months to produce) on the same topic within hours of each other by coincidence.
Fair enough on Point A. But I still have a VERY hard time believing ESPN just decided to throw together a 50-source, 11,000 word story over Labor Day weekend. That's just not how this stuff works. I think they had it planned for the NFL opener, which features the Patriots fresh off what most of the country, rightly or wrongly, considers a cheating scandal.Ed Hillel said:
canderson said:
Well, except Paterno enabled the rape of many children. That was a thing that happened.
The level of innuendo utilized to "prove" the allegations in the ESPN piece makes it read like an extended urban legend. You don't think that the Pats would send additional defenders to help McGinest if Faulk tried to get him in space near the goal line? Oh no must have stolen the play. Martz was a "genius".
So far the Martz-statement thing seems to be getting the most traction in the non-ESPNFL media. Let's see if that gets anywhere, because if Martz is right, that could be a huge egg on the NFL's face.
The Patriots are cheaters. My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Brady actually touch the footballs during last year's AFCCG. I guess it's pretty serious.
I would take the Patriots and the over in every game for at least the first 2 months of the season, were I a gambling man.
Mike Martz has always been in a bit of an awkward position. He was an admirer of Belichick back in the day, in particular after the Rams beat the Pats during the 2001 regular season. By the time Spygate broke, Martz had been in the assistant ranks for a couple of years, which meant he had a lot of good reasons to be quiet back then. He was probably upset after the bogus "taped walkthrough" story broke, and so I can see his original statement being a bit less than a complete absolution of the NFL and Patriots of all their sins. The statement got edited, but who really knows how substantive those edits really were. The fact that Martz refused to give details says a lot, and also allows the ESPN report to continue the innuendo of cheating accusations. I doubt very much that those edits impacted Senator Comcast's so-called investigation.AB in DC said:
Both the ESPN and SI pieces were hatchet jobs. Both have reporters that hate Belichick. Both have access to NFL sources that hate Belichick. Both have connections with former coaches and GM's that hate Belichick. And the simultaneous release is not an accident. The recent Berman ruling only makes the stories juicier. Unfortunately, things will only get worse when the local mediots (Volin, Shank, Borgie, and the gang) start piling on. If ESPN and SI reported it, it must be true, says Volin.
Methinks it's time that Kraft and Kraft come up swinging and begin a media blitz of their own. Really, they have nothing to lose at this point.
dcmissle said:
I think it was intended to be part of the ongoing effort to tar and feather the Pats, but I can't imagine they knew there would be a ruling this early. Probably a distinction without a difference. But yeah, it's clearly sour grapes now.
Can't imagine how the NFL could think this was a good idea, but they don't seem to have a very astute PR touch these days...
No one is going to listen to Kraft or BB or the former coaches on the Spygate. It's up to the former players to speak up and put an end to this. They have the credibility and the inside dope. When Bruschi or Law or McGinest speak people will listen. Otherwise forget it. And even then it'll be a VERY tough sell.
Maybe my memory is getting foggy but I seem to remember a story that when all the Spygate shit was coming down, one of the reasons that 'supposedly' Goodell didn't drag it out was BB had a lot of shit on other teams and possibly gave this evidence to Goodell. Am I remembering this correctly?
Kind of. One of the rumors in the wake of Goodell destroying the SpyGate tapes was that he destroyed them because the tapes Bill brought him had the goods on every other team doing the same thing. Just a rumor though, no confirmation from anyone.ShaneTrot said:
Sigh...
bing.com/news
bing.com/news
Spygate much worse than Belichick, Goodell divulged
New York Post · 20 minutes ago
An explosive ESPN report claims the Patriots recorded signals from at least 40 games, much more than their coach Bill Belichick and commissioner Roger Goodell…
- Goodell, Kraft, Belichick should all be canned
Sporting News · 2 minutes ago
- Bombshell ESPN Report: The Patriots Were Huge Cheaters And Roger Goodell Covered It Up
Dead Spin · 9 minutes ago
Ahh, were this to be true. Those guys would be dismissed as Patriots homers who benefitted from the very cheating the Patriots undertook, of course they are circling the wagons.ifmanis5 said:
As a fan of another team, I don't really feel like dredging Spygate up again. However, after reading the article and the comments here, I do disagree with the idea that the NFL was somehow behind this article. Frankly, I think Godell comes out looking poorly (again), and I think that he has just about totally lost control. His end can't come soon enough.
One thing is true: NEP-Gate stories are ESPN's new ratings binky. Favre and Jetes have retired. Tiger, Tebow and Manziel have washed out to various degrees. All they have left is LeBron and the Pats.
Youkilis vs Wild said:
You know that articles get killed all the time, right? Just because you have an 11,000-word story doesn't mean that the magazine or cable channel will run with it.
If the Pats lost the Deflategate thing, there is no story today. If the Pats played ball with the NFL, there is no story today. I don't like to immerse myself in conspiracy theories, but people (mostly Mike Felger) have been saying that the NFL had an ace up its sleeve and that the Pats should be careful about fighting Deflategate too hard. Well, here's your ace, Kenny Rogers.
So while the careful reader will deduce that this story really is more NFL incompetence, the NFL is betting that more people will see the headlines and scream "Durrrrr Cheatriots! Durrrr." and the NFL will win another news cycle (after getting its ass trounced in previous cycles).
And, you have to give it to the NFL, they understand that the majority of their fans are complete, fucking morons.
Brady just went out of his way to mention his respect for Goodell. If you expect any of the Patriots to publicly say or do anything material indicate displeasure with ESPN, you're probably going to be disappointed. I hope I'm wrong.CantKeepmedown said:
Like I said, it's time for Kraft and Kraft to come out swinging. This is not the time to "play nice". There is nothing more left to lose by staging a PR offensive. Time for the "ESPN and SI reports in context" websites and let Volin once again bleat about the Kraft Foundation.bluefenderstrat said:
The poorly worded article stated that the Pats scored TDs on 3 out of 4 drives where the Eagles were apparently in dime D. Of those three TD drives the Pats had a total of 8 rushes for 33 yards, and 17 passes for 144 yards.kenneycb said:
So on the bolded, not really. The Pats passed twice as often and twice as effectively as they ran on those particular drives.
Wow, this is insane how transparent it is...yet the masses are buying it.
Deflategate ended and things were fine for THREE DAYS. Now everyone, even a lot of Pats fan on social media, are trashing the team.
Well done, Roger. You win again!
Deflategate ended and things were fine for THREE DAYS. Now everyone, even a lot of Pats fan on social media, are trashing the team.
Well done, Roger. You win again!
"Stealing playbooks is new information we were not aware of at the time of the original punishment. As a result, we are suspending Bill Belichick for the entire 2015 season"
If you are going to go heel and try and right perceived past wrongs, should go full out.
If you are going to go heel and try and right perceived past wrongs, should go full out.
Apart from everything else about the story being old news, the timing, etc...I'm sure this point was made 8 years ago but I wanted to get it off my chest.
In baseball teams use signals all the time. Some if not most teams / players try to steal them. It's a well-known thing. But the onus is on the teams to make their signals complicated enough and to change them up often enough so that other teams can't steal them! Like...if the "less sophisticated teams" like the Bills and Dolphins who play the Pats twice in quick succession can't change their signals in-between games that's their own damn fault.
Am I wrong that you would just need to develop new signals and get one dude on the defense (and sure, a backup or two if that guy gets hurt) to understand them? It's not like you have to re-teach the whole defensive playbook to the team. You just need your defensive captain, who is supposed to be a relatively sharp guy, to grasp that there are new signals. How hard is that?
The other thing that really bugs me is the home-field advantage stuff like serving warm Gatorade. THAT'S PART OF THE GAME! If the experience on the road was comfortable then it wouldn't be a home-field advantage, and when the Patriots go to Miami or Indy you and your fans get to play all the mean tricks on them right back. Belichick can't change the schedule -- he's only going to play 8 games at home in the regular season. And I'm fairly sure that the Patriots have the best record on the road as well, so...whatever
In baseball teams use signals all the time. Some if not most teams / players try to steal them. It's a well-known thing. But the onus is on the teams to make their signals complicated enough and to change them up often enough so that other teams can't steal them! Like...if the "less sophisticated teams" like the Bills and Dolphins who play the Pats twice in quick succession can't change their signals in-between games that's their own damn fault.
Am I wrong that you would just need to develop new signals and get one dude on the defense (and sure, a backup or two if that guy gets hurt) to understand them? It's not like you have to re-teach the whole defensive playbook to the team. You just need your defensive captain, who is supposed to be a relatively sharp guy, to grasp that there are new signals. How hard is that?
The other thing that really bugs me is the home-field advantage stuff like serving warm Gatorade. THAT'S PART OF THE GAME! If the experience on the road was comfortable then it wouldn't be a home-field advantage, and when the Patriots go to Miami or Indy you and your fans get to play all the mean tricks on them right back. Belichick can't change the schedule -- he's only going to play 8 games at home in the regular season. And I'm fairly sure that the Patriots have the best record on the road as well, so...whatever
brandonchristensen said:
You just can't worry about what the fools think anymore. For every one of us with the ability to navigate the interwebs and post an opinion here, there is one person with "L" and "R" written on the bottom of his/her shoes.