SportsCenter & OTL Bringing Back Spygate (live, 9AM)

ifmanis5

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Shall the same media types who were all pumped and jacked to update's Brady's LEGACY also now update Goodell's LEGACY of being a thin-skinned liar, leaker and sour grapes revenge addict? Also, can the same media types who were asking for Brady to just accept the suspension so 'we can all move on' now also do the same without dredging up this crap again? No? What does that tell you?
 

Hoya81

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Bunch of guys in my office (mixture of Eagles/Steelers/Ravens fans) are fired up and treating it like gospel. Steelers guy in particular keeps saying that "our" playbooks must have got stolen and "we" got screwed.
 

Spacemans Bong

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John Marzano Olympic Hero said:
 
 
And, you have to give it to the NFL, they understand that the majority of their fans are complete, fucking morons.
 
 
Bolded for emphasis. compare it to Selig going after A-Rod. That rubbed a lot of baseball fans the wrong way. Yet the amount of NFL fans who don't root for the Pats who see through this shit numbers about five.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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What are the legal grounds to sue the League and its media conduit? Can't we pretty much agree that it's more likely than not that the NFL is leaking stuff to ESPN?
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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I'm seriously considering locking this thread.
 
It's literally a rehash of a topic several years old. There is nothing new to be learned from this garbage. The Patriots filmed signals from the wrong part on the field. The NFL handled it poorly and villainized a team for a minor infraction. The unwashed masses love tearing down successful entities.
 
ESPN spent 4 months building clickbait, and you guys are biting. 
 
I'm not trying to be a dickhead, I'm absolutely serious. Is there any reason to have this thread alive other then to have people rehash the same shit we've known about Spygate for the better part of the last decade and to feel victimized (rightfully or not) by the NFL and their media lapdog? 
 

Silverdude2167

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Hoya81 said:
Bunch of guys in my office (mixture of Eagles/Steelers/Ravens fans) are fired up and treating it like gospel. Steelers guy in particular keeps saying that "our" playbooks must have got stolen and "we" got screwed.
Well if the Steelers were giving out playbooks to guys in your office no wonder the Pats were able to get their hands on it.
 

lexrageorge

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Hoya81 said:
Bunch of guys in my office (mixture of Eagles/Steelers/Ravens fans) are fired up and treating it like gospel. Steelers guy in particular keeps saying that "our" playbooks must have got stolen and "we" got screwed.
This is exactly the reaction that ESPN wanted, and was their primary motivation for publishing the final report. Anyone who thinks otherwise is buying that oceanfront property in Iowa. 
 
It's possible that Goodell is dumb enough to think that ESPN's article would help him and he therefore unofficially endorsed his release.  But I'm not quite ready to jump on that bandwagon just yet.  
 

kenneycb

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Oil Can Dan said:
The poorly worded article stated that the Pats scored TDs on 3 out of 4 drives where the Eagles were apparently in dime D. Of those three TD drives the Pats had a total of 8 rushes for 33 yards, and 17 passes for 144 yards.
 
So on the bolded, not really.  The Pats passed twice as often and twice as effectively as they ran on those particular drives.
Ah, that was likely poor wording on Ley's part.  I was watching Sportscenter so was mainly just focusing on that interpretation.  Of course, you can also infer the Eagles didn't play dime because they had a weak back-end secondary depth.
 

jose melendez

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I don't want to read this.  Is there anything actually new?  It seem like they're taking on the old Walsh stuff as gospel?  Is it true they cite Pats coaches?
 

Myt1

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Man, tough to believe that the hardcore investigative journalists at OTL missed out on this enormous bombshell for 7 years. Thank the heavens they finally got around to reporting it.

I just think of all the good people we lost because they story didn't break in time.
 

Hoya81

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jose melendez said:
I don't want to read this.  Is there anything actually new?  It seem like they're taking on the old Walsh stuff as gospel?  Is it true they cite Pats coaches?
No former Pats coach went on the record, aside from Mangini discussing the Jets stuff.
 

Shelterdog

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Kenny F'ing Powers said:
I'm seriously considering locking this thread.
 
It's literally a rehash of a topic several years old. There is nothing new to be learned from this garbage. The Patriots filmed signals from the wrong part on the field. The NFL handled it poorly and villainized a team for a minor infraction. The unwashed masses love tearing down successful entities.
 
ESPN spent 4 months building clickbait, and you guys are biting. 
 
I'm not trying to be a dickhead, I'm absolutely serious. Is there any reason to have this thread alive other then to have people rehash the same shit we've known about Spygate for the better part of the last decade and to feel victimized (rightfully or not) by the NFL and their media lapdog? 
 
This would be a terrible, terrible decision.  The biggest story in the NFL right now is about the Pats and you're not going to let us talk about it on the Pats section of the message board?
 

jimbobim

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Kenny F'ing Powers said:
I'm seriously considering locking this thread.
 
It's literally a rehash of a topic several years old. There is nothing new to be learned from this garbage. The Patriots filmed signals from the wrong part on the field. The NFL handled it poorly and villainized a team for a minor infraction. The unwashed masses love tearing down successful entities.
 
ESPN spent 4 months building clickbait, and you guys are biting. 
 
I'm not trying to be a dickhead, I'm absolutely serious. Is there any reason to have this thread alive other then to have people rehash the same shit we've known about Spygate for the better part of the last decade and to feel victimized (rightfully or not) by the NFL and their media lapdog? 
Uh yeah there is a reason. If you lock this thread all the comments are going to end up in the media forum or the 700 page deflategate clusterfuck. All of what you said is valid, but locking this thread because the story and substance annoys you only forces other annoyed people into different and diverse spots of the site.  
 
Just don't read the thread if you don't want to. Pretty simple. 
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Shelterdog said:
 
This would be a terrible, terrible decision.  The biggest story in the NFL right now is about the Pats and you're not going to let us talk about it on a Pats message board?
 
This is less of a story about the Patriots and more of a story about ESPN. With the first game of the NFL season starting in two days - you know, kind of what this forum is dedicated to - I feel that it is probably better suited in the media forum then it is here.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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I'm seriously considering locking this thread
 
 
Don't. It's a legit news story written today and people want to have a forum to write about it. Right this very second, there are 549 users reading this topic, so while you might be sick of reading about it, hearing about it, etc. There are a lot of folks who aren't.
 
If you lock it, another one will open up in about 30 seconds. 
 
This is less of a story about the Patriots and more of a story about ESPN. With the first game of the NFL season starting in two days - you know, kind of what this forum is dedicated to - I feel that it is probably better suited in the media forum then it is here.
 
 
Perhaps. But it landed here first, so there you go. 
 

lexrageorge

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Kenny F'ing Powers said:
 
This is less of a story about the Patriots and more of a story about ESPN. With the first game of the NFL season starting in two days - you know, kind of what this forum is dedicated to - I feel that it is probably better suited in the media forum then it is here.
Disagree.  This is very much a story about the Patriots.  
 

johnmd20

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Kenny F'ing Powers said:
I'm seriously considering locking this thread.
 
It's literally a rehash of a topic several years old. There is nothing new to be learned from this garbage. The Patriots filmed signals from the wrong part on the field. The NFL handled it poorly and villainized a team for a minor infraction. The unwashed masses love tearing down successful entities.
 
ESPN spent 4 months building clickbait, and you guys are biting. 
 
I'm not trying to be a dickhead, I'm absolutely serious. Is there any reason to have this thread alive other then to have people rehash the same shit we've known about Spygate for the better part of the last decade and to feel victimized (rightfully or not) by the NFL and their media lapdog? 
 
A Goodell-esque proclamation.
 

nighthob

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The Pats are the Raiders of the 21st century. Instead of steroids, pain-killers, stickem and thugs, they use electronic snooping and mind games.
 
You forgot about their flagrant use of the awesome power of Satan. 
 

djbayko

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Kenny F'ing Powers said:
I'm seriously considering locking this thread.
 
It's literally a rehash of a topic several years old. There is nothing new to be learned from this garbage. The Patriots filmed signals from the wrong part on the field. The NFL handled it poorly and villainized a team for a minor infraction. The unwashed masses love tearing down successful entities.
 
ESPN spent 4 months building clickbait, and you guys are biting. 
 
I'm not trying to be a dickhead, I'm absolutely serious. Is there any reason to have this thread alive other then to have people rehash the same shit we've known about Spygate for the better part of the last decade and to feel victimized (rightfully or not) by the NFL and their media lapdog? 
You mean besides the fact that the 2 largest sports news enterprises are making it relevant right now? And adding more innuendo to the accusations in the process?
 

geoduck no quahog

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jose melendez said:
I don't want to read this.  Is there anything actually new?  It seem like they're taking on the old Walsh stuff as gospel?  Is it true they cite Pats coaches?
 
 I, too, refuse to click any link - but get the gist of it here.
 
The most disappointing thing to me will be the absence of other coaches (or even players) coming out publicly and saying, "enough already!"
 
"I (coach) and I (player) are sick and tired of insinuations that the Patriots win because they cheat. It's an insult to me and an insult to the game when losers are subject to reports that allege they only lost because of things off the field. How do I prep my players (my team mates) if they all think that a loss is a function of cheating - when a loss is always a function of the other team preparing and playing better."
 
"It's time for this to stop. When I beat Belichick and the Patriots I want it to be because we were better than them, not becasue 'they couldn't cheat'"
 

jose melendez

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I just skimmed it because I hate myself, and it seems like it consists 100% of Matt Walsh ( who was completely discredited wasn't he) unnammed former coaches, unnamed owners and named know Patriots haters with no evidence.  Is that about right?
 

nighthob

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jose melendez said:
I don't want to read this.  Is there anything actually new?  It seem like they're taking on the old Walsh stuff as gospel?  Is it true they cite Pats coaches?
 
Well, technically, Mangini and Pees would be "coaches".
 

TheoShmeo

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We get encouraged to start new threads all the time.
 
I HATE this story too.  But it's big news that came out today (again) and the notion that big news involving the Pats would not be discussed in a Pats forum seems bizarre to me.  And that would be true even if folks did not bleed the topic into other threads.
 
Said differently, if this is not a legitimate basis for a new thread, I don't know what such a basis is.
 

amarshal2

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jose melendez said:
I just skimmed it because I hate myself, and it seems like it consists 100% of Matt Walsh ( who was completely discredited wasn't he) unnammed former coaches, unnamed owners and named know Patriots haters with no evidence.  Is that about right?
Walsh just said the same things everyone already knew.  Nobody taped any practices.
 

slamminsammya

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Kenny F'ing Powers said:
I'm seriously considering locking this thread.
 
It's literally a rehash of a topic several years old. There is nothing new to be learned from this garbage. 
 
There are new allegations contained in the report, as well as lots of new information about the initial Spygate investigation.
 

nighthob

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slamminsammya said:
 
There are new allegations contained in the report, as well as lots of new information about the initial Spygate investigation.
 
 
Honestly the only thing I'd never heard was the Mike Martz thing.
 

Stu Nahan

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There is no winning this battle. None. People hate the Pats so facts ceased to matter ages ago. The fact that people still fail to understand or choose not to understand that taping was perfectly legal until 2006 and that camera placement was the violation shows you that. Taping is still legal today as long as you do it from designated areas yet the Pats are seen as cheaters who stole their championships. Teams that have lost to them will continue to think that they cheated and push that narrative. ESPN will continue to act as their propaganda arm. Just accept this and enjoy watching them continue to win on the field.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Sad to realize that this kind of reporting will never go away. Too easy to produce and too many brain-dead readers eager to drink it up. Thought maybe the situation with Mort and co. could have some kind of positive impact but clearly that was a pipe dream. America wants to be distracted. Miserable fucks.
 

jose melendez

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I will say, if they were actually going into locker rooms and stealing play sheets, that's pretty fucked, but to be clear, they have literally no evidence as best I can tell.
 

DJnVa

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nighthob said:
 
 
Honestly the only thing I'd never heard was the Mike Martz thing.
 
 
Why did you never share the warm Gatorade story????
 
 

Rice14

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Tyrone Biggums said:
What are the legal grounds to sue the League and its media conduit? Can't we pretty much agree that it's more likely than not that the NFL is leaking stuff to ESPN?
 
If they did then it backfired.
 
The other narrative, aside from the Patriots, is that Goodell screwed up Spygate big time. He rushed a decision that left 31 other owners wondering what the hell just happened and opened the league up to questions from congress. He destroyed evidence which spawned dozens of conspiracy theories, and people imagining things that were probably much worse than what was actually on the tapes. Plus, he did all this because he's friends with Robert Kraft, so the theory has gone for seven years.
 
Then, after getting his ass handed to him in court over all his most recent decisions, he decides to grossly over punish the Patriots, not because they committed a serious infraction, but because it seemed like an opportunity to correct a perceived wrong from seven years prior. Then that decision got handed back to him as well.
 
I don't think the NFL and Roger Goodell come off well at all. If they were behind it, it surely was cutting your nose off to spite your face.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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@sdoerschukREP Belichick rules, Big Ben drools, per Vegas. Odds guys have Pittsburgh as biggest underdog amidst 16 kickoff-week games.

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Oil Can Dan

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Having been in an NFL locker room on gameday morning up until game time I can say that there is no way to go into a locker room and steal a play sheet.  That's absolutely ridiculous.
 

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jose melendez said:
By the way, if you believe this shit and you're with another team, how can you not want Goodell fired?
 
See, this is really what I thought listening to this discussed this morning. Even Rich Eisen -- on the radio at the house organ -- basically said this was all about Goodell / the league trying to use Deflategate as a mulligan for Spygate.
 
Yeah, it dredges up all the old crap; but all that does is create the same camps that already exist -- those who believe the Pats are cheaters, those who believe they're getting screwed, those who think that all teams do this, and those who are sick of hearing about it. Now the actual games -- and fantasy seasons -- begin and this just gets added to the record, fair or not.
 
As many have said over the past few months, public opinion isn't going to change about any of this
 

slamminsammya

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I am not saying that there is any good reason to believe the reports, but certainly the idea that the Patriots were sending employees to steal play sheets during the games is a new - and very serious if true - accusation. I think its probably bullshit for reasons discussed already, but the article is not simply rehashing things we already knew from seven years ago. To lock the thread because there is no new information would, in my opinion, not be the best option.
 

djbayko

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Rice14 said:
 
If they did then it backfired.
 
The other narrative, aside from the Patriots, is that Goodell screwed up Spygate big time. He rushed a decision that left 31 other owners wondering what the hell just happened and opened the league up to questions from congress. He destroyed evidence which spawned dozens of conspiracy theories, and people imagining things that were probably much worse than what was actually on the tapes. Plus, he did all this because he's friends with Robert Kraft, so the theory has gone for seven years.
 
Then, after getting his ass handed to him in court over all his most recent decisions, he decides to grossly over punish the Patriots, not because they committed a serious infraction, but because it seemed like an opportunity to correct a perceived wrong from seven years prior. Then that decision got handed back to him as well.
 
I don't think the NFL and Roger Goodell come off well at all. If they were behind it, it surely was cutting your nose off to spite your face.
I believe the NFL asked ESPN to publish a report with updated innuendo, and the direction got away from them a bit.

The companion SI report supports that theory.
 

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SeoulSoxFan said:
Unhappiest non-Pats fans may be the Steelers fans. Consider:

@sdoerschukREP Belichick rules, Big Ben drools, per Vegas. Odds guys have Pittsburgh as biggest underdog amidst 16 kickoff-week games.

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Be afraid of the dark.
 
I would expect the Pats to run up the score at any opportunity the next few weeks.  I just hope some occur!
 

Hoya81

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The issue with the play sheet thing is that there is no way to prove that it is bogus.
 

Shelterdog

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Oil Can Dan said:
Having been in an NFL locker room on gameday morning up until game time I can say that there is no way to go into a locker room and steal a play sheet.  That's absolutely ridiculous.
 
Is it ridiculous for a home team employee to do this? Presumably the guy bringing in the warm Gatorade and some other folks have access to the locker room.
 

bankshot1

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Myt1 said:
Man, tough to believe that the hardcore investigative journalists at OTL missed out on this enormous bombshell for 7 years. Thank the heavens they finally got around to reporting it.

I just think of all the good people we lost because they story didn't break in time.
I'm confused, so does today's OTL rehash mean that ESPN can retract its 7 year too late midnight SPYGATE apology?
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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John Marzano Olympic Hero said:
 
Perhaps. But it landed here first, so there you go. 
 
Someday they'll create a technology where threads can be moved to the appropriate forum.
 

edmunddantes

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slamminsammya said:
I am not saying that there is any good reason to believe the reports, but certainly the idea that the Patriots were sending employees to steal play sheets during the games is a new - and very serious if true - accusation. I think its probably bullshit for reasons discussed already, but the article is not simply rehashing things we already knew from seven years ago. To lock the thread because there is no new information would, in my opinion, not be the best option.
The stealing playsheets was part of the original accusations of "culture of cheating". They have been around forever. 
 
 
Along with all the old coaches copping to trying to do anything they could to get an advantage themselves. (Jimmy Johnson, Cowher, et al)