Spurs 21/22: Conte? Conte!!

coremiller

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I think he was fading when Mourinho came in the door, but did Jose drive the stake into the heart of his career?
I think it's more that a) Son's rise into a world-class forward blocked Dele's development/role as the second striker/attacking midfielder playing off Kane, and b) Dele played best in an aggressive pressing system, which Spurs have not used since Poch left, and was less effective playing in the deeper counterattacking systems Spurs have used since.

It's noticeable that in shipping out Dele, Ndombele, and Lo Celso, Spurs are getting rid of the flair players. I suppose that's the way Conte wants out, and he's earned the right to be trusted, but it makes the team less fun.
 

Jimy Hendrix

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I think it's more that a) Son's rise into a world-class forward blocked Dele's development/role as the second striker/attacking midfielder playing off Kane, and b) Dele played best in an aggressive pressing system, which Spurs have not used since Poch left, and was less effective playing in the deeper counterattacking systems Spurs have used since.

It's noticeable that in shipping out Dele, Ndombele, and Lo Celso, Spurs are getting rid of the flair players. I suppose that's the way Conte wants out, and he's earned the right to be trusted, but it makes the team less fun.
Lo Celso has been more of a flair player in theory than practice for Spurs.
 

Zososoxfan

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Pretty comprehensive win over Brighton in the FA Cup over the weekend. Romero's return was evident as his aggressive approach to D was felt by both teams. Dav looks much more confident than at any other time in a Spurs shirt. Legit very happy for him, even if it's just for an eventual move this summer. Davies-Dier-Romero should be a lot of fun if they ever get a nice run of games together. I really like Emerson and feel like the criticism of his attacking ability is a bit premature. Of course we're on Conte's timeline and he's not going to wait long for improvement, but it was nice to see Emerson's effort pay off with a goal. Arry's first goal was Messi-esque in that once he got the ball in that position, you absolutely expected him to bury it and he did so authoritatively. Kulu looked really interesting in his cameo and offers something very different from most of our other attackers. He was looking to pass a lot (perhaps just a temporary thing, but regardless) and Bergy has to finish that sitter if he wants to keep getting minutes from Conte. Son didn't take very long to look sharp once again. Yes, his touch and decision-making was a bit rusty, but if that's a temporary tradeoff for his threat and verticality that's something you take all day. Betancur also looked solid in his short cameo--very much a physical Conte central MF. Will be interesting to see how Conte rotates Skipp, Hoj, Winks, and him.

Brighton is a solid midtable club with a 0 GD. Southampton aren't far behind in the table, but are at -8 GD. Then Wolves over the weekend are likely the strongest of the 3 both in the table and with a GD of +3. Critical to nab at least 4 points with MANC up after that.
 

veritas

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Agree on Romero, he looked great. The most impressive part of the turnaround under Conte is that they were missing him for most of it, he's far and away their best defender.

Dele thoughts I had saved and forgot to post: Watching the young Dele highlights in the Everton thread and it really highlighted how he changed as a player over the past few years. He was never a super athletic player, but his quickness and explosiveness really has declined since his prime. He was also ridiculously thin when he was younger. I know he has a reputation as not being particularly dedicated to fitness, but I think he might have just grown into his body and his unquestionable skills don't play in the top half of the PL as a below average athlete. I think he would have been better off ending up in Serie A, he is the type of player who could easily go off for 15 and 8 in that league. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see him pop up there in a few years and do just that. I think Everton is not a very good fit for him, Doucore and VDB are very similar types of players and a functional team can't really carry more than one of them in midfield. Anyway, I loved Dele playing for Spurs and hope he has a successful rest of his career.
 
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Jimy Hendrix

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I can potentially see the logic here. Bale gets a manager/training regimen which will get him brutally fit for the World Cup (if Wales get through March) and gets a last decent shot to get a trophy at Spurs. Conte meanwhile, gets a past-prime elite player for spot-starts and bench minutes, which he has used to good effect before (see Alexis Sanchez at Inter, for one example).
 

DJnVa

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Looks like the Spurs are bringing out the same lineup from last game.

 

Jimy Hendrix

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Royal was extremely frustrating last night. Bentancur should start every match.

What a disappointing gut-punch loss.
Royal, Winks, Sanchez and Hojberg were all notably awful. It was the first Conte era game as well where the whole team was just vastly out-efforted, which I hated to see.
 

Zososoxfan

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Royal, Winks, Sanchez and Hojberg were all notably awful. It was the first Conte era game as well where the whole team was just vastly out-efforted, which I hated to see.
Eh, I didn't see any effort issues. Southampton is an organized squad that's had pretty good results the past 2 months (starting in December and most recent matches at the bottom):

LCFC - 2-2 draw
Brighton - 1-1 draw
@Arse - 3-0 loss

@Palace - 2-2 draw (noticing a pattern yet?)
@WHU - 2-3 win
Spurs - 1-1 draw

Brentford - 4-1 win
@wolves - 3-1 loss
MANC - 1-1 draw
@Spurs - 2-3 win


Based on GD, they're in that solidly midtable area along with Brighton, Villa, LCFC, and Palace. Against all of the clubs ahead of them in the table (in bold), they only lost @Arse and @wolves. They also drew against friggin MANC. They're a good team that helps give the EPL the respect it currently garners.

I've been a stan for Emerson and Hoj this season, but I agree they were both very very poor yesterday. I'd also add Lucas to that--he was dreadful. Winks was good offensively, but very poor defensively. I'm not passing any kind of broad judgment on Kulu yet, but he was horribad yesterday. I thought Sanchez did fine.

On the first goal, Dav makes the interception that Davies slips and muffs, and then he makes a header on the first cross before the goal. If you freeze the frame at the assist strike (0:17 below), you can just tell that Spurs have completely lost their shape and marks. Emerson is on the ball and Davies is marking the first man, but both Romero and Sanchez have run to the goal mouth. I give Hoj a pass because he could conceivably be marking the man at the top of the box, but Winks should have a bit more depth and awareness there (he has time to look around)--he's not doing anything useful on the play. Romero and Sanchez need to communicate more and have more awareness to step to a man.

https://old.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/sommoc/tottenham_1_1_southampton_armando_broja_23/

I originally thought Winks was the primary culprit on the second goal, but after looking at it again, it's 50-50 if not a bit more on Kulu. Check out the 0:14 frame of the video below. The scorer (Elyou) is running slowly towards goal in front of Kulu. The ball goes wide right so Kulu and Winks drift middle. Elyou is already unmarked a few seconds later, well before the cross is hit. Kulu either needs to go with him (Elyou is the LMF in a Soton 4-4-2) or at least let Winks know that he's there. Double shame on Kulu as there's another player even wider, so him and Winks should probably double Elyou there.

https://streamgg.com/v/620430218afd3

On the third goal, it's just about equal parts Emerson and Sanchez at fault. They're defending 2v2 in the situation. And the 2 Soton players do a cool looping move to lose their marks. Adams is Dav's man but Armstrong (nominally the RMF, but all the way out left so far that he's Emerson's man) loops in front of Dav, so Dav moves forward to pick him up and Emerson can't do anything to throw off Adams.

https://streamgg.com/v/62043068136a4

Looking at these goals together, I think there's just some organizational and responsibility issues that need to be tightened up throughout the squad. The first goal was a scramble drill, but better communication could've gotten the players in better defensive position. Winks in particular is not doing anything useful on the play. On the second goal, I'd say awareness and communication are again the key problems, with Winks and Kulu most glaring. On the third goal, I think it's fair to blame Emerson and Dav 50-50.

While I think there are some strategic/organizations issues generally, there's some personnel limitations that are clear too. Winks needs to improve his defensive awareness quickly if he wants to keep getting minutes. He's probably the best passer among Hoj/Winks/Skipp, but Hoj and Skipp are better at pressing, making runs forward, defensive positioning, ball-winning, and awareness--likely more important for a Conte CMF. In that light, it makes sense why Betancur was brought in, and most think he's a likely starter out of that group. Like I said above, I'm also not passing any kind of permanent judgement on Kulu, but he got absolutely fooled and abused on the second goal with a player who just casually drifted behind him. I thought his attacking was poor as well, and he's very slow for someone his age and someone Conte thinks may be able to play RWB.

The last thing I'll say is that I think Eric Dier turns this loss into a win. His organization and leadership at the back likely fixes the 2nd and 3rd goals, and gives us a better chance to defend the first. Dier struggles with awareness when someone gets behind him personally, but I think he's quite good and improving on keeping track of the whole field generally. We really need him back. You might be able to say the same for Skipp on the second goal. I can't wait to see what a Skipp-Betancur MF pairing looks like.

Put this one behind and keep fighting for points COYS!!
 
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Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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IMO, Romero is the primary culprit for the second goal. He wanders out of defense for no good reason at all, then when he comes back he doesn't reorganize the line but just slots into this very poor position ahead of Sanchez, such that when the cross comes you're playing 3 CBs and none of them are actually between the posts, leaving Emerson to deal with two men by himself (and a third who could be making a delayed back post run). Kulu could have realized the danger and tracked back more but that's not his job in general - you let the man go in that position as a MF because your defenders are supposed to be maintaining good spacing and positioned to win everything in the air and you need to be at the top of the box to compete for the second ball. All of this supports your broader point that the team misses Dier quite a bit.
 

DJnVa

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Don't have an account. Any key quotes (or a free membership) to share?

Here's some:

They simply — and how many times have we said this? — do not have anyone who can hold onto the ball under pressure. Mousa Dembele left for China three years ago now and the two players they hoped would replace some of that capacity — Tanguy Ndombele and Giovani Lo Celso — both flopped, were sidelined by new coach Antonio Conte after he was hired in early November, and now play for Lyon and Villarreal respectively on loan. It would be a surprise to see either of them play for their parent club again.
Conte has decided to build a midfield without those two and while the upside is that he has midfielders who are fully willing to implement his instructions on the pitch, the downside is that when the Tottenham midfield is put under any pressure, they tend to give the ball straight back to the opposition.
Winks and Hojbjerg barely had a second on the ball and the latter in particular kept giving it away. It did not take long for the crowd to show their frustration with him — the lightning rod again for Spurs’ struggles in this type of game.

Conte admitted afterwards just how poor his team had been before half-time when under pressure. He said that in the first half his team made “many, many mistakes, especially with the ball”. And that this “created problems” for them out of possession as well. “When you lose confidence, you lose confidence in every aspect, with and without the ball.”
Conte knew that the best way to fight fire was with fire, and Tottenham were far more aggressive with their own press at the start of the second half. (“I told them to have courage with the ball and without the ball,” he said.) They started to create chances, and took the lead again through Son. And then the whole thing collapsed.

Hasenhuttl pointed afterwards to the way his players “kept going” at 2-1 down, and the fact that Spurs sat back with the lead, “as they always do”. Conte pointed to a problem of the “defensive line” when his team were in the lead.
But the Italian also hinted at an issue that was not so much tactical or technical but mental. He said that his team are “still too emotional”, that they have to improve their “stability”, and that it is “important to have players with experience to manage the situation during the game”.

The return of Eric Dier from the thigh injury that’s kept him out of the last two games will help with all of this, not just the defensive organisation but the use of the ball from the back, and the leadership he can provide during games. He will be an instant upgrade when he next plays, as well as giving Sanchez a much-needed break.
 

OCST

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I caught the last 30' or so. Credit to Southampton - that's the best I've seen them play in a long time. They run so hot and cold under Ralph and you caught them at a bad time.
 

DJnVa

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There was some bad luck for Spurs early too--Romero had one brought back for being offside (and he was, but it was a nice play) and Reguilon was alone in front of goal but fired right at keeper. The Spurs weren't playing really well but actually could have been up early.

Then again, Soton was unlucky early too--just a weird game, and I'm hoping it's just a one off. Get Dier back and Betancur and Kulu up to speed...
 

Jimy Hendrix

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The press resistance problem is probably a better way to specify it than "out-efforted", I will admit after a night of sleep to be less annoyed.

Spurs were absolutely out-pressed in the whole game and the midfield was at the heart of it, both outnumbered in the 3-4-3 and not able technically/tactically to beat the press. There's a lot on the CBs in that system to beat the press through either good distribution (between the lines or out to aggressive wings) or with aggressive dribbles, which they did pretty fitfully at best yesterday. I can remember one great line-breaking pass through the middle from Romero, but not that much more.

I would love to see our functionality in that system with Romero on the right and Dier in the middle, rather than Romero in the middle and Sanchez on the right. Dier is increasingly the best distributor out of the back, and Romero can dribble as well as Sanchez but can also pick a pass where Sanchez ends up in blind alleys often when he tries that.

I also fantasize a bit about what this Conte system might've looked like with a prime Toby/Jan as 2/3rds of the back 3. There's no tactic they don't fit in, because they were that goddamn good when they were that goddamn good, but they'd fit like a glove in this Conte system.

Hell, I'd take non-prime Toby in a heartbeat if he does a uturn on "take it easy in Qatar and spend time with my kids" and wants a last crack at top-level football.
 

Zososoxfan

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What a disaster yesterday. Hugo had his worst match in a loooooong time, the D looked very weak, and the MF was nonexistent. Need some changes or health soon or Spurs can kiss top 4 goodbye.
 

Jimy Hendrix

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It says a lot about the current squad depth issues that "Dier hurt, Skipp hurt" = "Complete and total defensive collapse and also it is impossible to possess the ball in the midfield".
 

Zososoxfan

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It says a lot about the current squad depth issues that "Dier hurt, Skipp hurt" = "Complete and total defensive collapse and also it is impossible to possess the ball in the midfield".
I read/learned today that Rodon also has enough cracked ribs ATM to feel like an NFL QB. Makes me feel a little better about his lack of appearances. Who knows if he pushes anyone out of the XI or is even a rotation piece though.
 

coremiller

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It says a lot about the current squad depth issues that "Dier hurt, Skipp hurt" = "Complete and total defensive collapse and also it is impossible to possess the ball in the midfield".
Spurs also sold off all their midfielders who can actually pass. The lack of MF depth is a problem of their own creation.
 

Zososoxfan

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CAN WE PLEASE TALK ABOUT THAT MASSIVE WIN AWAY AT CITEH??!???! I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS!!

My experience of this match was odd to say the least. I was on vacation with the fam this weekend, and on Friday my two kiddos decided that the day should start at 4am. So I was having a cocktail with breakfast by 8am. Fastforward to kickoff, and I'm in the car with the whole fam and the kiddos fall asleep (SHOCKING, I know). So my wife's orders are to keep driving to promote this sleep correction. So I pull up Spurs' website and start listening to the radio broadcast (which I love BTW). However, the website is having all sorts of trouble, and I have to refresh and hit a couple of buttons every few minutes. This drives me crazy, and I'm also literally driving, so it was touch and go obviously. I catch the 2 first half goals and I'm pretty happy. We keep driving thru minute 60-70, and I hear Spurs take the lead, and the Kane goal get chalked off. We arrive at a playground, so I switch to YTTV on Mobile. This is uninterrupted, but now I'm following along with one eye on my kiddos and their cousins. I see the pen and I obviously deflate and prepare myself for the inevitable minute 90+ letdown to drop all 3 points. Well, you obviously know what happened next and I'm eventually jumping around on a kids' playground in Sarasota while my kids are with my sister and brother in law getting ice cream. WHAT. A. FOOKIN. FINISH. LCFC 2.0!!

Hard to say what I loved most about the match. Kane was majestic, and it's obviously delicious irony that he takes Citeh to the shed after the summer's shenanigans. Son was right there to be his sidekick. Kulu showed why Fab/Conte were after him. Betancur and Hoj were bosses in the MF--really showed what this is supposed to look like when Conte wants 10 behind the ball, and the backline was organized and fierce. Conte deserves a ton of credit for the 5-4-1 defensive shape. I noticed that the MF 4 was pretty interchangeable, and there was a clear directive for the nearest player to pressure the man in possession between the lines regardless of which "column" he was in, and the others would cover the space in an organized way. At some point in the second half, Conte also had an interesting tweak where Kulu dropped into a back 6 (!) and Son pushed forward a bit more. Just a fascinating match all around.

We now go into the complete opposite challenge against Burnley midweek where the challenge will be generating offense while not losing balance. COYS COYS COYS!!!
 

Kliq

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It was a big game from Kulu. I'm still concerned about his pace playing the wing in the EPL, and he was a bit of an unconventional pick for the game when you consider how Spurs planned on attacking (Kane triggering balls on the counter) because you would think a speedier player like Moura or Bergwijn would be a better fit for that role; but his pressing and playmaking was critical for Spurs.

Defensively it was a great game; I didn't think either of the wingbacks played particularly well, but it was a great game from the MFs, Romero (hand-ball aside) and Dier, who has really turned into an indispensable player at the moment, which has been a remarkable turn around for him.

City had the edge in xGs, but really looking at the chances, Spurs generated a lot better opportunities to score. City's goals came off a PK and Lloris spilling the ball in front of goal. Their other best chances came off some ambitious efforts by Cancelo and Gundogan from outside the box. Spurs three goals were all pretty simple conversations, and Kane really should have scored another goal in the second half, but Ederson did a great job cutting him off just in time.

As great as Pep is and his ability make in-game adjustments, it's strange to me that he never really changed tactics after it was clear that Spurs were going to create some chances on the counter. This isn't the first time Spurs have had their way with City using that formula either. Time after time, City pushed their CBs up field and left themselves vulnerable with acres of space behind the back line for Son to exploit.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Spurs' record against Pep is really pretty wild. In the last 10 matches going back to the 18/19 CL quarters Spurs have 5 wins, 4 losses, 1 draw and are slightly ahead on goal differential against one of the best 2-3 teams in the world over that period. I think Kane/Son are probably the ultimate counter-attacking duo against the way City counter-press. Kane is really amazing not only at playmaking and putting runners through but also getting away from and riding challenges so City can't just do tactical fouls to stop every counter.
 

coremiller

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Spurs' record against Pep is really pretty wild. In the last 10 matches going back to the 18/19 CL quarters Spurs have 5 wins, 4 losses, 1 draw and are slightly ahead on goal differential against one of the best 2-3 teams in the world over that period. I think Kane/Son are probably the ultimate counter-attacking duo against the way City counter-press. Kane is really amazing not only at playmaking and putting runners through but also getting away from and riding challenges so City can't just do tactical fouls to stop every counter.
It's been highly enjoyable, but a lot of this is just luck. Spurs' GD in these 10 games is -1, but their xGD is -10.7 (not including the 2021 League Cup Final, which FBRef doesn't have xG data for).

The most comical was the 2019-20 season, when Spurs drew 2-2 (Gabriel Jesus had a last-minute winner VAR'd off for handball) and won 2-0 despite losing the combined xG 5.9-0.6. Spurs scored on 4 of their 6 shots in those matches, while City scored on 2 of their 47 shots.
 

Kliq

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Yeah but City doesn't have a real striker and they have a lot of the ball but rarely has that turned into amazing chances to score. City had a higher xG in the last game but you can't look at the game and conclude that City had better opportunities to score. They had 21 shots but only four on target. Spurs had six total shots and five on target. Spurs got their players in space, Spurs got in favorable number advantages in the box; Spurs got their CF into dangerous spots.
 

Zososoxfan

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Bump for today's match @Burnley (2:30pm EST). Before getting into other topics, let's talk logistics for a moment. I presume Spurs fly private for a match like this? Regardless, do they travel day of or the day prior? I know for International matches teams fly day of when possible to avoid hotel/local shenanigans, and while I don't imagine the Northwest is the most cosmopolitan area of Britain, I don't know that it's comparable to Santiago, Buenos Aires, or Tegicugalpa. FWIW, Spurs have 2 days off after today's match before playing @Leeds in West Yorkshire. Any chance they stay up North for the week, similar to how NFL teams might stay on the West Coast if they have back to back road games?

Spurs are coming off an emotionally and physically demanding GLORIOUS VICTORY over Citeh on Saturday, so I don't know how much rotation should be expected. Again, they'll only have 2 days off before tangling with Leeds, who also play a (tremendously exciting) brand of football that usually results in an up-and-down the pitch type of game. Reguilon sat on Saturday due to COVID and is listed as doubtful (by Sky Sports), and it appears that Skipp and Japh will not be available. Conte has also said that Kane is playing. So, IMO only real questions are at both WB spots, and whether Winks, Moura, or Bergy come into the squad. I expect:

Hugo
Romero-Dier-Davies
Doherty-Betancur-Winks-Sess
Kulu-Kane-Bergy

After Saturday's performance, I just don't think we can break up the back 3. That said, if Conte thinks Romero needs a breather, perhaps we get Dav since there's likely to be low pressing today. Since Burnley typically setup in a low block, this is a good opportunity to get the more offensive RWB in Doherty a chance. That being said, I think Emerson is a fine choice for today, and have Doherty ready to fly on Saturday--I just think Doherty is too easy to exploit for Leeds, so he's a better fit for today's match. Either way, I think both play today. That said, I don't think we see both Dav and Doherty on the right--at least not to start. I also think Sess is young enough and played well enough on Saturday to give Reggie some more rest and not risk anything. Maybe Reggie gets the last 20-30 to sharpen up for Leeds. I think Winks comes into the side since he's less likely to be pressed against Burnley as opposed to Leeds. Betancur and Hoj can also platoon as I imagine they're the ideal starting CMs for Leeds (assuming Skipp still isn't available for 90).

I think Kulu gets another start and gets fewer defensive responsibilities. He's just so good with the ball at his feet, and we'll likely need some good technical play to break down Burnley. Bergy also comes in for Son for similar reasons. Son will be rested for Saturday so he can run in behind against aggressive Leeds. I could easily see Son starting to continue the gelling process for Conte generally though, but I think squad management plays an important role at this point in the season, where you can't quite just hit the gas for the home stretch yet (about a month away from that IMO). I could also see Moura getting a start, but I'd rather see Bergy in there personally as he's more well-rounded and that would be useful today. For example, I think him and Kulu make a good pair of 10s to allow Kane to stay further upfield. That way Bergy and the WBs can make runs ahead of Kane and Kulu--perhaps with a late-arriving Betancur/Hoj as another automation we may expect. That said, I'd guess it's 33-33-33 percent chance that Son/Bergy/Lucas start with Kane and Kulu (that rolls off the tongue for sure) up top. COYS!!!
 

coremiller

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Bump for today's match @Burnley (2:30pm EST). Before getting into other topics, let's talk logistics for a moment. I presume Spurs fly private for a match like this? Regardless, do they travel day of or the day prior? I know for International matches teams fly day of when possible to avoid hotel/local shenanigans, and while I don't imagine the Northwest is the most cosmopolitan area of Britain, I don't know that it's comparable to Santiago, Buenos Aires, or Tegicugalpa. FWIW, Spurs have 2 days off after today's match before playing @Leeds in West Yorkshire. Any chance they stay up North for the week, similar to how NFL teams might stay on the West Coast if they have back to back road games?

Spurs are coming off an emotionally and physically demanding GLORIOUS VICTORY over Citeh on Saturday, so I don't know how much rotation should be expected. Again, they'll only have 2 days off before tangling with Leeds, who also play a (tremendously exciting) brand of football that usually results in an up-and-down the pitch type of game. Reguilon sat on Saturday due to COVID and is listed as doubtful (by Sky Sports), and it appears that Skipp and Japh will not be available. Conte has also said that Kane is playing. So, IMO only real questions are at both WB spots, and whether Winks, Moura, or Bergy come into the squad. I expect:

Hugo
Romero-Dier-Davies
Doherty-Betancur-Winks-Sess
Kulu-Kane-Bergy

After Saturday's performance, I just don't think we can break up the back 3. That said, if Conte thinks Romero needs a breather, perhaps we get Dav since there's likely to be low pressing today. Since Burnley typically setup in a low block, this is a good opportunity to get the more offensive RWB in Doherty a chance. That being said, I think Emerson is a fine choice for today, and have Doherty ready to fly on Saturday--I just think Doherty is too easy to exploit for Leeds, so he's a better fit for today's match. Either way, I think both play today. That said, I don't think we see both Dav and Doherty on the right--at least not to start. I also think Sess is young enough and played well enough on Saturday to give Reggie some more rest and not risk anything. Maybe Reggie gets the last 20-30 to sharpen up for Leeds. I think Winks comes into the side since he's less likely to be pressed against Burnley as opposed to Leeds. Betancur and Hoj can also platoon as I imagine they're the ideal starting CMs for Leeds (assuming Skipp still isn't available for 90).

I think Kulu gets another start and gets fewer defensive responsibilities. He's just so good with the ball at his feet, and we'll likely need some good technical play to break down Burnley. Bergy also comes in for Son for similar reasons. Son will be rested for Saturday so he can run in behind against aggressive Leeds. I could easily see Son starting to continue the gelling process for Conte generally though, but I think squad management plays an important role at this point in the season, where you can't quite just hit the gas for the home stretch yet (about a month away from that IMO). I could also see Moura getting a start, but I'd rather see Bergy in there personally as he's more well-rounded and that would be useful today. For example, I think him and Kulu make a good pair of 10s to allow Kane to stay further upfield. That way Bergy and the WBs can make runs ahead of Kane and Kulu--perhaps with a late-arriving Betancur/Hoj as another automation we may expect. That said, I'd guess it's 33-33-33 percent chance that Son/Bergy/Lucas start with Kane and Kulu (that rolls off the tongue for sure) up top. COYS!!!
For night games like the Burnley match, I'd be shocked if they travelled the day before. Leeds on Saturday is a lunchtime kickoff so maybe they'll go up Friday night, but I kind of doubt it. I think a lot of EPL teams don't even fly to most away games, they just charter a bus.

EPL travel is just not that much of an issue because England is so small. Even Newcastle to Southampton (the longest EPL trip) is only about 330 miles, or closer than San Francisco and Los Angeles.
 

Zososoxfan

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For night games like the Burnley match, I'd be shocked if they travelled the day before. Leeds on Saturday is a lunchtime kickoff so maybe they'll go up Friday night, but I kind of doubt it. I think a lot of EPL teams don't even fly to most away games, they just charter a bus.

EPL travel is just not that much of an issue because England is so small. Even Newcastle to Southampton (the longest EPL trip) is only about 330 miles, or closer than San Francisco and Los Angeles.
I agree with you generally, but with squads and staffs comparable to baseball or hockey (as opposed to American football), chartering a plane seems like a great option (especially during this COVID era) when a flight is an hour, and a charter bus is ~4 hours for these two sites.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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I think traveling the night before is pretty common for PL teams unless its a derby or another very close location. I don't think teams want to deal with the uncertainties of significant same-day travel plus there are potential issues with physical performance if you've been sitting in one position on a bus or plane a few hours before a match.

Manchester United actually has their players stay in a hotel together even the night before home games. I've always found that weird.
 

candylandriots

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I have nothing but the highest respect for Roy Hodgson.

God, why did he have to go to Watford of all places? I guess if it's a guaranteed contract, it's easy money for not much work. But....Watford? It's would almost be worse if he'd gone to Brighton.
 

DJnVa

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Well these last 2 games are the complete Spurs experience.

Sigh.
 

Zososoxfan

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So, is this what it feels like to be a Spurs supporter? Like rooting for the Sox during the Yawkey days? Asking for a friend.
It's EXACTLY like that, and also why I think Bill Simmons chose to become a Spurs supporter many moons ago.

In retrospect, yesterday's result shouldn't come as much of a surprise. Spurs are currently at their best on the counter and struggle (as always) unlocking a low block. Burnley did the latter very well yesterday.
 

Zososoxfan

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Yesterday's result is disappointing, but I'm more concerned that the book is out on the current Spurs side. Let them have the ball and let them try to break you down, and the result usually follows. I think not rotating some yesterday really hurt, but I get that Conte is stepping on the gas as much as possible and the team is off for 6 days regardless. Perhaps I'm overstating the issue and if and when Skipp and Benta get back this is all better, but I don't know.
 

Jimy Hendrix

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Yesterday's result is disappointing, but I'm more concerned that the book is out on the current Spurs side. Let them have the ball and let them try to break you down, and the result usually follows. I think not rotating some yesterday really hurt, but I get that Conte is stepping on the gas as much as possible and the team is off for 6 days regardless. Perhaps I'm overstating the issue and if and when Skipp and Benta get back this is all better, but I don't know.
We're running a 3-4-3 out there and the entire 4 line of that is both inconsistent and doesn't have a tremendously high ceiling. Squad is weak at wingback, maybe Conte's most important position, and currently decimated in MF because both presumptive starters are hurt and half the theoretically good depth options are on loan because they couldn't get with the program.

One can point to Conte's tactics there perhaps, but the bottom line I think is just that the squad has degenerated to a pretty mediocre level. Team's not going to get consistently good results without a larger number of consistently good players (or even inconsistent players with higher upsides, so eg. when Son is having a stinker like yesterday there's *somebody* worth trying to sub in).
 

Zososoxfan

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We're running a 3-4-3 out there and the entire 4 line of that is both inconsistent and doesn't have a tremendously high ceiling. Squad is weak at wingback, maybe Conte's most important position, and currently decimated in MF because both presumptive starters are hurt and half the theoretically good depth options are on loan because they couldn't get with the program.

One can point to Conte's tactics there perhaps, but the bottom line I think is just that the squad has degenerated to a pretty mediocre level. Team's not going to get consistently good results without a larger number of consistently good players (or even inconsistent players with higher upsides, so eg. when Son is having a stinker like yesterday there's *somebody* worth trying to sub in).
No argument as to central MF being decimated, but I think LWB is pretty solid with Reggie and Sess. RWB is a struggle bus with Doherty and Emerson, although I think even that's overstated a bit, as Doherty has played decently well these last 2 matches (gigantic blast into open stands notwithstanding). I chalk yesterday's loss to Son and Decki both being tired and not finishing chances. Son had a howler of a match and Decki was also fairly miserable too--he had a chance to convert a Son cross on his strong foot in the last minutes of regular time and whiffed it like me in my pub league.

In sum, I think the depth is a bigger problem than anything right now, but then why not let Bergy start? Then again, is it fair to criticize the depth when 2 potential starters and a depth guy (Lucas) are out? I mean, sure I'd love for Spurs to have viable backup options at all 11 spots to make squad selection of 18 strong, but other than Chelsea and Citeh, can any EPL club reasonably survive injuries to 3 rotation players better than Spurs? Likely Liverpool, but after that? i.e. Is Man U's depth better than Spurs'? What about Arsenal, WHU, Wolves, or other clubs farther down the table? As Spurs try to build depth, they also need to improve the best XI so it's certainly a balancing act.

I'm playing devil's advocate a bit here, as it's clear Spurs need better depth. In fact, it's probably the way Levy would prefer to build the squad since it's cheaper and potentially less risky to buy 2 $20M players than 1 $60M player. But this summer better be busy with transfers if the plan is to improve both the best XI and build better depth!
 

Jimy Hendrix

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No argument as to central MF being decimated, but I think LWB is pretty solid with Reggie and Sess. RWB is a struggle bus with Doherty and Emerson, although I think even that's overstated a bit, as Doherty has played decently well these last 2 matches (gigantic blast into open stands notwithstanding). I chalk yesterday's loss to Son and Decki both being tired and not finishing chances. Son had a howler of a match and Decki was also fairly miserable too--he had a chance to convert a Son cross on his strong foot in the last minutes of regular time and whiffed it like me in my pub league.

In sum, I think the depth is a bigger problem than anything right now, but then why not let Bergy start? Then again, is it fair to criticize the depth when 2 potential starters and a depth guy (Lucas) are out? I mean, sure I'd love for Spurs to have viable backup options at all 11 spots to make squad selection of 18 strong, but other than Chelsea and Citeh, can any EPL club reasonably survive injuries to 3 rotation players better than Spurs? Likely Liverpool, but after that? i.e. Is Man U's depth better than Spurs'? What about Arsenal, WHU, Wolves, or other clubs farther down the table? As Spurs try to build depth, they also need to improve the best XI so it's certainly a balancing act.

I'm playing devil's advocate a bit here, as it's clear Spurs need better depth. In fact, it's probably the way Levy would prefer to build the squad since it's cheaper and potentially less risky to buy 2 $20M players than 1 $60M player. But this summer better be busy with transfers if the plan is to improve both the best XI and build better depth!
I actually agree that LWB is solid, but solid does not equal consistently good. A Conte team can have a half-decent Ashley Young at one wingback when it has Hakimi at the other, but I think Spurs are a lot closer to rolling out dual sided Ashley Youngs right now.
 

Zososoxfan

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I actually agree that LWB is solid, but solid does not equal consistently good. A Conte team can have a half-decent Ashley Young at one wingback when it has Hakimi at the other, but I think Spurs are a lot closer to rolling out dual sided Ashley Youngs right now.
I mean, how many LWBs are out there actually better than Reggie?? Davies, Robertson, Angelino, Mendy (at least defensively)? There's some guys that are in the same tier, Theo Hernandez, Tierney (gross), Digne, Spinazzola, Zinchenko. Maybe you can take someone used to playing further upfield and make a reasonable case that there's no transition--Gosens, Harvey Barnes (maybe).

One name I love that I'm surprised doesn't get mentioned much is Todd Cantwell of Bournemouth (previously Norwich). When he was in the Prem with Norwich, I thought he was their most technical and best player. Could probably be had for not too much money, but again, if Reggie and Sess are in the fold I focus on other positions first. If money is no object, Angelino is my current favorite LWB in the world, non-Davies division.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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I have been really impressed by Marc Cucurella every time I've seen him play this year. He hasn't shown much end product in the PL yet as compared to La Liga but everything else about his game is really good.

I'd love to see a team that wants to actually play football buy Dwight McNeil (maybe if Burnley goes down) and try him as a LWB. Really good player on the wrong kind of team.

But I agree that LWB is unlikely to be a summer priority for Spurs.
 

Zososoxfan

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I have been really impressed by Marc Cucurella every time I've seen him play this year. He hasn't shown much end product in the PL yet as compared to La Liga but everything else about his game is really good.

I'd love to see a team that wants to actually play football buy Dwight McNeil (maybe if Burnley goes down) and try him as a LWB. Really good player on the wrong kind of team.

But I agree that LWB is unlikely to be a summer priority for Spurs.
I love Cucu as well--he's tough as nails, but I think he's somewhat limited going forward. That being said, if Reggie goes back to Madrid I wouldn't mind bringing him in at all.
 

Zososoxfan

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Yesterday was fun. Unfortunately, I think it says more about Everton than Spurs. Nevertheless, getting points so emphatically when they're there is all I truly care about this season. Nice feel-good result heading into the showdown @MANU on Saturday. Have to hope MANU's recent poor form and a drubbing by MANC keeps their players' heads down. COYScoaster!!
 

Jimy Hendrix

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MANU are in full-on "quit on the coach" mode again. I don't think Spurs have anything to fear.
The two things that have really hurt Spurs are good pressing (especially when Winks is in there) or a committed low block

Rangick coaching plus the aforementioned quitting seems hopefully like a good recipe for inconsistent pressing and an aggressive posture like we saw to our delight with Leeds and Everton. Attackers and GK are much better for Man U though, so I don't see another stroll, but a win seems quite possible.