Stop hoarding TP(E) - the what should the Celtics do with the TPE thread
- Thread starter NomarsFool
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They are probably facing an Aldridge buyout, it saves a few dollars. Plus they need a 5 to share time w/ Poeltl
They aren't playing DV all that much more than the C's are playing AN
I wouldn't do this if I'm Ainge.
As badly as I want help for them, they shouldn't use the TPE on a rental.
They need to add a youngish guy with term to fire that bullet.
yea I doubt Danny would do it, just know Hobs affinity for Devin Vassell
I agree with your overall point that the C's need an asset for more than this season to extend the salary slot
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Fair although the Spurs have a glut of wing talent.
DeRozan
Keldon
Walker
Vassell
White
I feel like Vassell would be getting more PT on the Celtics and I definitely like him more than Nesmith (and I’m probably one of the biggest Nesmith fans on this site).
I'm skeptical about the value of the TPE, but if you get a talented young wing and a vet who could help this year for the TPE that's not a bad haul. But then again I know next to nothing about the cap stuff that would get you into.
Thompson would allow them to stay under the apron so cap-wise, it’s fine. Biggest problem is the opportunity cost of using it on an expiring guy like LMA. The Celtics would be banking an awful lot on Vassell. But I doubt SA would be willing to trade him anyways.
https://theathletic.com/2450600/
Shams seems to think BOS is only interested in Aldridge if he's bought out. Notes Collins has been a target, but Hawks holding firm to a high price, sees Barnes as the most likely.
Shams seems to think BOS is only interested in Aldridge if he's bought out. Notes Collins has been a target, but Hawks holding firm to a high price, sees Barnes as the most likely.
Aldridge would be a great get under those circumstances however it wouldn’t make sense for him to choose Boston over the Lakers or Blazers. So yeah, not happening.
Too bad there isn't a way to get Murray attached to LA without Kemba or Smart in the deal. SA isn't taking Kemba and trading Smart for Murray doesn't solve anything.
Murray's perimeter defense would really help, obviously a pipe dream of all of ours
taking a big, bad contract + a good, young controllable is a TPE option. I'd expect that to be their Summer approach
Yeah, the Spurs big bad contract will be gone though. Both of them.
The Spurs are in a really good spot this offseason actually.
They need to surround it with couple more pieces, but the Spurs' young core is terrific.
Edwards, G Williams, Green, Thompson, 2021 first, 2023 first (top 4 and 20-30 protected)
for
Barnes, Bjelica, Whiteside
This is what Hollinger proposed. There are other teams involved, but nobody of much consequence. Bjelica and Whiteside are rentals, although perhaps their Bird rights are something?
for
Barnes, Bjelica, Whiteside
This is what Hollinger proposed. There are other teams involved, but nobody of much consequence. Bjelica and Whiteside are rentals, although perhaps their Bird rights are something?
I wish they would decide what this team is already. Is it a now team? Then make a trade. If it's not, then play Nesmith and start Timelord. But don't do neither. Pick a lane.
The problem of course is that it is a now team that is struggling to trade because of four things:
1. With the expanded playoffs there aren't many sellers, and the few there are know this and are pricing accordingly
2. It doesn't make much sense not to reset the tax this year
3. Many of the most available players don't make this team much better
4. The Celtics don't have many particularly attractive assets
They're not winning a title this year, and Danny knows this. But if they don't try to win as many games as possible, and therefore give minutes to the players who are playing the best right now, that would have negative consequences long-term as well. It's not a bad thing for young players' long term development if they know they have to earn minutes by practicing hard and playing well rather than just being given them because the team believes in their potential.
But, it's not really that black and white. There is no practicing hard, because there is no practice. So, giving minutes to anyone can be justified as "matchups". It's not like most of the players on the court are lighting it up and putting up triple doubles out there.
This would put the Celtics into the tax, which I doubt they're willing to do.
If they were, call this into the league. Done deal.
I think if you take out Bjelica, the C’s stay out of the tax. I’d add more protections to the second 1st to make it more like 2 2nds but I would do that deal
Boston Celtics trade scenarios: Former NBA executive weighs in on potential deals, how to spend trade exception
Tristan Thompson, Romeo Langford, Grant Williams and two first round picks for Barnes and Nemanja Bjelica
I'm not so sure we need Bjelica (he's a rental), and I'm a little hesitant to give up on Langford at this point.
Tristan Thompson, Romeo Langford, Grant Williams and two first round picks for Barnes and Nemanja Bjelica
I'm not so sure we need Bjelica (he's a rental), and I'm a little hesitant to give up on Langford at this point.
That seems like a very significant overpay that Ainge would not touch.
If they are trading two 1sts, they are not including Langford + GW + TT. Two 1sts and Thompson/GW sure, but I think Danny values Langfords’ length and D too much already.
Well he does explain it, which is basically that his impression is that GW and Langford both have little value if any and they're just shedding the salaries.
Yea, Hollinger sounds a little bias when it comes to Langford:
I actually had Williams and Langford in this deal more as salary dumps than alluring pieces to get the Kings to the table. They’re on the books for next year, and I suspect they’re not going to play much, at least if the bench is any good. Those dollars hurt when there are two max deals and one near-max deal in the starting lineup.
I don’t think other teams value Langford much beyond a dice-roll at this point. A lot of teams were souring on him even before the draft, and I was a bit surprised to see him go as high as he did. His injury history hasn’t helped, either for his development or for his trade value. On a positive note, it turns out this was all we had to give up to get Jeff Green.
https://theathletic.com/2460963/2021/03/19/boston-celtics-trade-scenarios-former-nba-executive-weighs-in-on-potential-deals-how-to-spend-trade-exception/?source=dailyemail
Barnes isn’t a rental though he is under contract for the next two full seasons under a good contract. So this trade wouldn’t necessarily be about our record this year but an early offseason move to upgrade those roster spots beyond our top two. It isn’t only about Barnes replacing Semi......it is about moving every player down a notch in the rotation order.
Now I agree that is a fairly steep price but the 1st rounders aren’t going to be lottery or hopefully even close and the Kings are going to require value in return for Barnes as he does have a favorable deal and surely would be marketable across the league in other potential trades. At the end of the day the trade improves this team for next season and I’d say by a decent amount.
Any time you can spike the football over trading a 1st round pick for a role playing pure rental in a year you have no chance to win in the midst of a moderately successful run as an executive for a team you mostly didn't build, you just gotta do it.
Agreed on the Jeff Green bias, but it's hard to argue that Langford is much more than a dice-roll. Dude simply doesn't play and he can't shoot when he does. Missing this offseason to improve his shot on top of that is a bummer.
Yeah, I think that the throw-in at the end doesn't change that he was not a consensus pick where he went and has barely played, his value is probably like GW.... a 2nd equivalent.
All true. I'm just not committing to Harrison Barnes at this point. I was more excited about him a month or two ago before it looked like this season was lost cause. I'd rather wait until the summer before committing those 1st's that would be needed for any major deal.
The question always comes up - what would be better than Barnes in the offseason? Hollinger seems pretty insistent there's really no one else. That doesn't mean he's right. But, I'd like to see someone say that they could get X better player this summer instead of Barnes now.
Yeah there is that uncertainty of being stuck with nothing which we clearly cannot afford. The nice thing about Barnes is his fit in our front court as he fills a gaping hole to replace the Semi/Grant/2-Big minutes......this would achieve so much in terms of roster balance and rotation continuity. Plus hey! What’s not to like about another plus iso performer on the offensive end!!!
Nothing obvious. The Celtics could eat some team's bad contract in exchange for draft picks, but that seems like a good way to punch the Jays' tickets out of town.
Even if it was the best possible move, eating a bad contract with the TPE seems very unlikely from a PR perspective. As we’ve seen, the value of those future draft picks is a crapshoot. We wouldn’t have wanted to “trade” 2 second rounders for the next Grant Williams
That was humor, not spiking the ball. If you read or listen Hollinger, he's very self-effacing and self-deprecating. He's also very much a "process" guy. You don't evaluate evaluate trades involving picks based on who the other team took with the pick.
As to Langford, what seems more likely 1) that a Celtics forum has a higher opinion of a young player with an interesting pedigree, who has barely played or 2) that a decently plugged in NBA analyst/writer harbors/former GM unconscious or conscious bias against player because he was selected using a draft pick the analyst had previously traded.
I hope Ainge gets Barnes. He's a good fit in terms of role, skills, age and contract. As to the last piece, at worst he is a way of creating a salary slot that could be used in a future move. Two firsts seems like a fair price. I think treating Langford and Williams as salary dumps is premature and disagree with Hollinger on that piece. At worst, Danny can wait until sometime between offseason and next deadline to make that move.
There was a report in the Athletic a day or two ago, that Ranadive was opposed to dealing Barnes and/or Hield. I hope that was just smoke to create leverage for the Kings GM (i.e. you know my owner loves Barnes - I would do the deal on the table - but you've got to give me more so me to sell it to the owner).
I could think of a few possibilities that might not be better than Barnes right now but could be as soon as next year. They would all be S&T. If Charlotte isn't keeping Monk, we could make it 3 straight S&Ts in a row. There's also Lauri Markkanen, Lonzo Ball and John Collins. I'm not sure how much control these players have where they end up, though.
And what's the rush to get Barnes now? I'm not for giving up on the season but I'm also not giving up assets to improve our chances by 0.00001%. I'd rather wait until the summer which opens up S&T possibilities and who knows what will happen from now until the offseason. Players are demanding trades all the time.
I’m not saying I’m in a rush, but the argument would be that the team, as currently constructed, may not even make it out of the first round. If the upgrade from Barnes to Monk or whatever is minimal, you’d rather have the team get more playoff experience. I’m not familiar enough with the players you mentioned to say whether they are significantly better than Barnes or not. But, getting the team more playoff experience and building that culture of winning has development value as well. I think at a minimum, they need to bring in a Semi / Teague upgrade so that neither of those guys plays a minute in the playoffs. That shouldn’t be that expensive
Outside of John Collins, they are not as good as Barnes. Ball might be close. They are all 23, have all shown year over year improvement and should continue to improve for another offseason or 2. Everyone is familiar with Collins and Ball but Monk has taken a leap this year. Now that Charlotte is back at full health, he's been playing less and they'll also have enough to sign someone to the max if they let Monk go, so trading him in an S&T for a TPE makes a lot of sense. He'd be perfect for the 6th man role as is and with some improvement, becomes a legit 20-25 point scorer.
Lauri is a 7'0 who projects to be a 40% shooter on heavy volume and he's very mobile on offense. On defense, he is S-O-F-T. This year, he is averaging 18.7 points and 6.0 rebounds in 30.7 minutes. He's shooting .630 from 2 (5.7 attempts/G) and .408 from 3 (7.5 attempts/G). He'll be 24 soon and is probably close to a finished product... but man would he make the C's offense deadly.
You'd be paying both for what they are today and hoping they improve like most young players do. Barnes doesn't have the upside.
They'd have to move about $6 million in a Barnes deal, I think.
That could be Grant Williams and Nesmith, or Grant and Romeo. Could also be Grant, Edwards and Teague.
It wouldn't be too hard to fit him in.
I'm also not 100% sure how it all works so maybe I'm wrong. Either way, I think I'd rather wait for S&T possibilities.
We've been thru this a bunch, but unless somehow a team takes Kemba off your hands for little/no salary coming back, the Celtics aren't going to be able to take someone back making any kind of salary in a S&T because that would again hard cap them at the luxury tax apron.
Hollinger points it out again in the article.
This, again, isn't as issue.
Thompson going out in a Barnes deal gets them under the tax.
Boston is only $13 million under the tax, so it’s more like $8-$9 million. Barnes doesn’t make them a contender this year, which is the only reason to make a deal now rather than next summer. The team needs re-sculpting, so it makes more sense to wait.
A few things here. This is kind of a shockingly stupid opinion out of Hollinger, especially considering he used to be an NBA executive.
He may be right that other teams consider Langford a major dice roll and basically salary ballast. But it’s clear that Danny Ainge doesn’t think that.....so why the fuck would he just throw him into a deal where he’s not valued? Take him out and put in Edwards and Javonte Green and that paragraph, and quite frankly, this trade makes much more sense. (In fact, I think Hollinger put Langford in the trade just so he could get that hilarious Jeff Green joke off)
Major side note, Hollinger has been much closer to Jim Bowden (former front office executive who doesn’t really add much) than I expected
The apron is set at 143M next year. The Celtics without re-signing Theis or their first round pick are at 132K. Assuming you pay someone to take Thompson and Langford, you are looking at approximately 22ish in a ST. So forget about Collins.
And that is with Tatum at the 25% max. With AD and KD missing so much time, he's got a much better shot at getting the 30% max and eating up another 5.6M
Edwards and Green are not guaranteed $6.5m between them next year. This is why Hollinger classifies Langford and Grant as salary dumps.....as you’d be dumping guaranteed money. This is also why some contenders don’t like keeping their low 1st round pick to pay a guy who isn’t likely to contribute and would rather use that slot on a veteran who would have a better chance to contribute.
1. I am not in favor of waiting as Barnes could easily be gone by the summer. If Ainge wants him on the Celtics he should be aggressive now.
2. This team is moving dangerously close to imploding.....like literally days. When you respond to an embarrassing Cleveland loss with a dud at home vs the Kings things are close to falling off a cliff. Changes need to occur now before shit that cannot be cleaned up hits the fan. It’s all about the timing of a deal, we cannot afford to do nothing and not only for this year but for the future of our core group. See #1.
3. Ranadive loves his players and doesn’t like it when a player he loves leaves the family. He did this same thing for years by refusing to trade Boogie Cousins. Fortunately, we see reports that he has given autonomy to Monte McNair on all basketball decisions as one of the conditions in luring him from the Rockets last year. So while he may not want to trade these players he won’t be there to stop it as he was with Boogie.
Totally agree on Nos. 1 and 2. Can you imagine how toxic things will get in the Garden once fans return, even with reduced attendance, if these kind of performances continue?