Stop hoarding TP(E) - the what should the Celtics do with the TPE thread

What should the Celtics do with their TPE

  • Use it before the current season starts

    Votes: 6 4.6%
  • See what is available around the NBA trade deadline and level up for the playoffs

    Votes: 55 42.3%
  • Save it for next summer's free agent bonanza

    Votes: 69 53.1%

  • Total voters
    130

128

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So the discussion of PGs...
here's a name for a cheap guy who might make sense as a Teague replacement (though Teague has been better recently)...
Delon Wright. Currently injured, but he's a 6'5" PG who has graded out as a plus defender throughout his career and has been a shade over league average as a 3pt shooter in 3 of the last 4 seasons. Not particularly expensive, and DET is likely to move him.
Wright played really well against the C's last time out, if memory serves. I was surprised to see he was listed at 6-5. I thought he looked--and played--taller.
 

benhogan

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Would love to see what CBS does with Svi.
I'd add a draft pick to that package.

Svi was going places last season (40% from three on 5 attempts/gm) then got firmly planted on the bench behind Ellington/Jax/ rookies this season, plus they need to play Sekou.
 

benhogan

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I'd feel better about Svi's availability if he were nailed to bench and not playing like this:

https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401309754
Ugh, Casey pulled out the nails and finally played him. Svi is averaging 16.8 mpg (12th for Detroit). I still think they like Josh Jackson/Bey at SF better and want to give minutes to Killian Hayes at PG. So they may be a hair motivated to see what they could get for Wright/Svi

Wright would be the real get for the Celtics. I just like Svi (FA at season's end) better than Semi/Grant as a deep bench guy, he'd be the cherry on top. I'd also like Ellington as a deep bench microwave if Svi is a no-go.

Ugh, also noticed Ellington went off for 25pts.

It would be nice if Danny & Co got off their asses, stopped being potted plants, and added a wing.
 

lovegtm

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Well no worries, because according to Shams, Danny is targeting his teammate Jerami Grant. He also has the Celtics and the Hornets as interested in and describes the package Orlando would require as "massive."
I would be willing to go all-in for Jerami Grant (understanding that the Celtics have some issues putting together the necessary assets for that). He would be an almost perfect fit on several dimensions.
 

BigSoxFan

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Average Game James

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I would be willing to go all-in for Jerami Grant (understanding that the Celtics have some issues putting together the necessary assets for that). He would be an almost perfect fit on several dimensions.
The one concern with Grant might be personality fit. He turned down similar money from Denver to go to Detroit for a bigger role. He might not be happy coming to Boston to be at best a 4th option. From a pure basketball perspective, I agree he would be great.
 

lovegtm

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The one concern with Grant might be personality fit. He turned down similar money from Denver to go to Detroit for a bigger role. He might not be happy coming to Boston to be at best a 4th option. From a pure basketball perspective, I agree he would be great.
True, although he'd get a pretty big role once Kemba was inevitably traded, which he'd have to be over the summer if you went this route.
 

BigSoxFan

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The one concern with Grant might be personality fit. He turned down similar money from Denver to go to Detroit for a bigger role. He might not be happy coming to Boston to be at best a 4th option. From a pure basketball perspective, I agree he would be great.
Yeah, he fits everything we need but hopefully the chance of actually doing something in the playoffs may motivate him. His shooting volume would obviously go down but there are shots to be had.
 

128

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True, although he'd get a pretty big role once Kemba was inevitably traded, which he'd have to be over the summer if you went this route.
Yeah, I think Grant would end up being No. 3 in Boston.
 

128

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The question that I've yet to see answered is why the Pistons would want to move Grant after a season in which he's been their best player? Is he a locker-room cancer?
 

BigSoxFan

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The question that I've yet to see answered is why the Pistons would want to move Grant after a season in which he's been their best player? Is he a locker-room cancer?
Grant turns 27 in about a week. He's signed for 2 more years. The Pistons are in great position to get a ton of assets for a guy who probably won't be on the team in a couple years. The rest of their roster is an absolute disaster so, while they aren't looking to deal him, they should absolutely listen if a team like the Celtics comes calling with a legit offer of young players and picks.
 

lovegtm

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Grant turns 27 in about a week. He's signed for 2 more years. The Pistons are in great position to get a ton of assets for a guy who probably won't be on the team in a couple years. The rest of their roster is an absolute disaster so, while they aren't looking to deal him, they should absolutely listen if a team like the Celtics comes calling with a legit offer of young players and picks.
Exactly--he likely isn't part of the next great Pistons' team, so they can effectively turn last year's cap space into a haul.
 

128

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Grant turns 27 in about a week. He's signed for 2 more years. The Pistons are in great position to get a ton of assets for a guy who probably won't be on the team in a couple years. The rest of their roster is an absolute disaster so, while they aren't looking to deal him, they should absolutely listen if a team like the Celtics comes calling with a legit offer of young players and picks.
Good points, though I have bad memories of that disastrous Detroit roster winning 2 of 3 (so far) from Boston this season.
 

DannyDarwinism

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I would prefer Grant to Vooch by a huge margin, just because center is so much more fungible and I'm happy with the Celtics current guys there.

Yeah, same here.

Obviously the Pistons are in no position to decline offers loaded with future assets, but I’d be a little surprised if they move their big acquisition so soon. And Grant went there in large part because he wanted to be The Guy, so I wonder how he’d feel about the necessary decline in usage here.

I like Wright a lot too, and the Pistons should be seeing what they have in Hayes, DSJ and Saban Lee, so he should be eminently available. A package of him and Ellington would be helpful.
 

BigSoxFan

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Yeah, same here.

Obviously the Pistons are in no position to decline offers loaded with future assets, but I’d be a little surprised if they move their big acquisition so soon. And Grant went there in large part because he wanted to be The Guy, so I wonder how he’d feel about the necessary decline in usage here.

I like Wright a lot too, and the Pistons should be seeing what they have in Hayes, DSJ and Saban Lee, so he should be eminently available. A package of him and Ellington would be helpful.
Yeah, between the white whale in Grant and guys like Wright, Ellington, Svi, it just feels like there is a deal to be made with Detroit. They have so many guys who could help us and who should be reasonably available.
 

DannyDarwinism

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Grant turns 27 in about a week. He's signed for 2 more years. The Pistons are in great position to get a ton of assets for a guy who probably won't be on the team in a couple years. The rest of their roster is an absolute disaster so, while they aren't looking to deal him, they should absolutely listen if a team like the Celtics comes calling with a legit offer of young players and picks.
True. God being the dregs of the NBA sucks.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Grant would be interesting. I think any deal with a team like the Pistons will help but nobody coming back from that side is likely to elevate Boston to stretch contender. But it would be an improvement.
 

BigSoxFan

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Conceptually, what does a Grant/Vucevic deal look like?

Figure 2 or 3 from the following group:

Time Lord
PP
Nesmith
Langford

And multiple picks/swaps, no?
 

lovegtm

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Conceptually, what does a Grant/Vucevic deal look like?

Figure 2 or 3 from the following group:

Time Lord
PP
Nesmith
Langford

And multiple picks/swaps, no?
Yup, something like that. Which is why I'd prefer it to be for a big wing, and not a center.
 

Cellar-Door

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All I'll say on Grant is that he's going to be very pissed if he gets traded to the Celtics from all the things he said about his signing this summer. He wanted a place he had a role, he wanted to play for and support a Black coach and a Black lead exec, he cared more about that than money. If they immediately trade him to Boston, a team with one of the whitest coaching staffs and front offices in the league, where (at least for now) he's the 4th option on a team not clearly better than the DEN one he left.... he's gonna be pissed.

It also probably isn't great for how players and agents view you as a franchise if a guy signs with you because you sell him on how you're building, he takes a chance on you and you trade him 5 months later. It's a business and guys will still sign, but they'll be far less willing to go there for anything other than the clear most money.
 

128

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If Boston and Detroit become trade partners and Grant isn't available, I'm much prefer Svi over Ellington, who's nearing the end of his career and wouldn't fit into the C's long-term plans. Svi is still young and could easily become a poor man's Joe Harris.
 

Cellar-Door

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What is the appeal of Svi? He's a guy who has never been good and is in the last year of his deal. He had one partial season of being a good 3pt shooter, he can't defend really, I don't see how he cracks our rotation. He's closer to Carsen Edwards than a rotation player on a good NBA tea,
 

128

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What is the appeal of Svi? He's a guy who has never been good and is in the last year of his deal. He had one partial season of being a good 3pt shooter, he can't defend really, I don't see how he cracks our rotation. He's closer to Carsen Edwards than a rotation player on a good NBA tea,
Shot 41 percent from 3 last season and is at 38 percent this season. He'd be a shooter off the bench.

Moreover, Stevens has a good track record with some of these reclamation projects. (See Evan Turner.)
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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All I'll say on Grant is that he's going to be very pissed if he gets traded to the Celtics from all the things he said about his signing this summer. He wanted a place he had a role, he wanted to play for and support a Black coach and a Black lead exec, he cared more about that than money. If they immediately trade him to Boston, a team with one of the whitest coaching staffs and front offices in the league, where (at least for now) he's the 4th option on a team not clearly better than the DEN one he left.... he's gonna be pissed.

It also probably isn't great for how players and agents view you as a franchise if a guy signs with you because you sell him on how you're building, he takes a chance on you and you trade him 5 months later. It's a business and guys will still sign, but they'll be far less willing to go there for anything other than the clear most money.
He also left a team that was, before the season, widely thought to be the club knocking on the door in the West. There are definite questions about how Grant would fit in to the team in terms of chemistry. My sense is that most of these trades aren't done without a lot of feeling out not only between the trading partners but also between the parties potentially linking up. I understand there are rules but I don't think they apply to a front office person calling their agent friend and asking how X likes a certain city etc.
 

BigSoxFan

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He also left a team that was, before the season, widely thought to be the club knocking on the door in the West. There are definite questions about how Grant would fit in to the team in terms of chemistry. My sense is that most of these trades aren't done without a lot of feeling out not only between the trading partners but also between the parties potentially linking up. I understand there are rules but I don't think they apply to a front office person calling their agent friend and asking how X likes a certain city etc.
Yup. And Danny is coming off of the Lierie experience so he's almost certainly extra sensitive to this. If he deals for Grant, it'll be because he knows Grant is good with it.
 

Cellar-Door

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Shot 41 percent from 3 last season and is at 38 percent this season. He'd be a shooter off the bench.

Moreover, Stevens has a good track record with some of these reclamation projects. (See Evan Turner.)
He's shooting 33% from 3, he's shooting 38% FROM THE FIELD.

I can't imagine the Celtics want to trade for an impending FA who isn't demonstrably better than they guys they have under contract, Svi has no clear advantage on any of our bench guys beyond maybe Carsen. I think he'd clearly be behind all of these in the rotation : TL, Theis, TT, Tatum, Brown, Smart, Kemba, PP, Teague. He'd probably be behind Nesmith and Semi as well, and if he ever gets back Langford. He's not that good a shooter looking at his history and charts, and he doesn't really defend. There should be no role for him on this team.
 

NomarsFool

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Does Theis and a 1st rounder get us Bjelica? They are both expiring contracts, but at least it saves the Kings a little bit of money. Bjelica is at least more of a classic 4 than Theis, a better outside shot. We might need Edwards or Semi to balance out the money.
 

Swedgin

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He's shooting 33% from 3, he's shooting 38% FROM THE FIELD.

I can't imagine the Celtics want to trade for an impending FA who isn't demonstrably better than they guys they have under contract, Svi has no clear advantage on any of our bench guys beyond maybe Carsen. I think he'd clearly be behind all of these in the rotation : TL, Theis, TT, Tatum, Brown, Smart, Kemba, PP, Teague. He'd probably be behind Nesmith and Semi as well, and if he ever gets back Langford. He's not that good a shooter looking at his history and charts, and he doesn't really defend. There should be no role for him on this team.
The appeal of Svi is that he's a wing sized human being unlike Kemba, PP, Teague and Carsen and may be able to shoot and keeps the ball moving. I wouldn't call him a playmaker but compared to the other non-Jay wings on the roster he looks like Chris Paul. His minutes and role have been all over the place this season. Last year when he was getting consistent run he shot 40% from three, taking 5 a game and 80% from the line. This year he's at 33%. The acquisition cost would be low given that, as you noted, he's an impending FA, on a team going nowhere now and which does not appear see him as part of their future. I am assume a second. As noted above he can fit in a non-Hayward TPE.

I agree he's not taking minutes from TL, Theis or TT at the 5. If he is shooting it like last year then I can see him slotting in ahead of Semi, Nesmith and Langford, particularly when Kemba is not on the floor and Smart is playing point. If a change of scenery and CBS's whispering don't result in a return to the form of last year, then you staple him to the bench and let him walk.

He's not a savior. But perhaps worth taking a shot on depending on who else is available.
 

Cellar-Door

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The appeal of Svi is that he's a wing sized human being unlike Kemba, PP, Teague and Carsen and may be able to shoot and keeps the ball moving. I wouldn't call him a playmaker but compared to the other non-Jay wings on the roster he looks like Chris Paul. His minutes and role have been all over the place this season. Last year when he was getting consistent run he shot 40% from three, taking 5 a game and 80% from the line. This year he's at 33%. The acquisition cost would be low given that, as you noted, he's an impending FA, on a team going nowhere now and which does not appear see him as part of their future. I am assume a second. As noted above he can fit in a non-Hayward TPE.

I agree he's not taking minutes from TL, Theis or TT at the 5. If he is shooting it like last year then I can see him slotting in ahead of Semi, Nesmith and Langford, particularly when Kemba is not on the floor and Smart is playing point. If a change of scenery and CBS's whispering don't result in a return to the form of last year, then you staple him to the bench and let him walk.

He's not a savior. But perhaps worth taking a shot on depending on who else is available.
I'm real dubious. He doesn't defend, so who cares how big he is, Green is a much better defender for example, so are Semi and Langford, and Nesmith shows signs.

As to his shooting, he had a nice run in Dec. Jan last year, then fell off a cliff, then the season ended before that regression kept taking him down, this year he's back to being a subpar 3pt shooter.

I think he isn't worth a roster space, and if we're struggling to find Nesmith playing time even with Smart out, I can't imagine the idea of giving Svi run.

Basically if you look at him, so far he's 3 years into his career and appears to have either no NBA skills or a marginal shooting skill, that's not a player who should get minutes for a playoff team.
 

Swedgin

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Does Theis and a 1st rounder get us Bjelica? They are both expiring contracts, but at least it saves the Kings a little bit of money. Bjelica is at least more of a classic 4 than Theis, a better outside shot. We might need Edwards or Semi to balance out the money.
That strikes me as a significant overpay and I really like Bjelica, but who knows each deadline is its own animal. Three years ago Memphis didn't make a deal b/c it couldn't get a first for Tyreke Evans when he was putting up 20/5/5 and shooting 39% from 3. In 2019, Rodney Hood cost two seconds. Last year the Knicks got a first, a second and a, probably useless, 1st round swap for Morris.
 

ramfan

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That strikes me as a significant overpay and I really like Bjelica, but who knows each deadline is its own animal. Three years ago Memphis didn't make a deal b/c it couldn't get a first for Tyreke Evans when he was putting up 20/5/5 and shooting 39% from 3. In 2019, Rodney Hood cost two seconds. Last year the Knicks got a first, a second and a, probably useless, 1st round swap for Morris.
Everything i've read has the price as a 2nd round pick and a young player
 

the moops

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That strikes me as a significant overpay and I really like Bjelica, but who knows each deadline is its own animal. Three years ago Memphis didn't make a deal b/c it couldn't get a first for Tyreke Evans when he was putting up 20/5/5 and shooting 39% from 3. In 2019, Rodney Hood cost two seconds. Last year the Knicks got a first, a second and a, probably useless, 1st round swap for Morris.
Yea, that is a huge huge overpay. I wouldn't give a first, or Theis for Bjelica - and I also really like him and want him on this team.

A second would suffice for a guy who is still shooting only 31% from three and didn't start playing until SAC season totally went south
 

DannyDarwinism

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Giving up assets to "upgrade" from Theis to Bjelica (I wouldn't make that trade straight up, Theis's defense is really underrated here) or Semi to Svi strikes me as a terrible idea. I haven't seen much of Svi since his Kansas days, but he was a pretty terrible defender in the Big 12 and I can't imagine he's much better against pros. He's due for some positive regression shooting the ball, but even then he's one-dimensional. Delon Wright would be a really solid, under-the-radar get though.
 

benhogan

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He's shooting 33% from 3, he's shooting 38% FROM THE FIELD.

I can't imagine the Celtics want to trade for an impending FA who isn't demonstrably better than they guys they have under contract, Svi has no clear advantage on any of our bench guys beyond maybe Carsen. I think he'd clearly be behind all of these in the rotation : TL, Theis, TT, Tatum, Brown, Smart, Kemba, PP, Teague. He'd probably be behind Nesmith and Semi as well, and if he ever gets back Langford. He's not that good a shooter looking at his history and charts, and he doesn't really defend. There should be no role for him on this team.
Svi is a very on the edges move and really doesn't move the needle a huge amount. Plus I'm not dying on the "Svi Mykhailiuk" hill, but he's cheap (fits in VP exception), is a FA and should cost little to acquire (ie Edwards) since Casey has barely used him (maybe that tells us something?)

Last season it all came together for Svi, with a specified role/some minutes and shots. He may be better than any of our other bench wings? Grant/Semi/Green/Edwards have not really stepped forward and all have been given a chance. Svi also fits the JayCrew timeline so it would be a try-out of sorts for being a potential bench wing for future seasons.

Obviously, Wright would be THE get and Jerami Grant is by far the sexiest of the bunch.

Svi could be a Jonas Jerebko or a Luigi Datome ...nothing to get hung up on
 

benhogan

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Does Theis and a 1st rounder get us Bjelica? They are both expiring contracts, but at least it saves the Kings a little bit of money. Bjelica is at least more of a classic 4 than Theis, a better outside shot. We might need Edwards or Semi to balance out the money.
Theis is better than Bjelica and a 1st is worth more then Bjelica

sorry just saw the others comments, didn't mean to pile on
 

Cesar Crespo

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Svi is a very on the edges move and really doesn't move the needle a huge amount. Plus I'm not dying on the "Svi Mykhailiuk" hill, but he's cheap (fits in VP exception), is a FA and should cost little to acquire (ie Edwards) since Casey has barely used him (maybe that tells us something?)

Last season it all came together for Svi, with a specified role/some minutes and shots. He may be better than any of our other bench wings? Grant/Semi/Green/Edwards have not really stepped forward and all have been given a chance. Svi also fits the JayCrew timeline so it would be a try-out of sorts for being a potential bench wing for future seasons.

Obviously, Wright would be THE get and Jerami Grant is by far the sexiest of the bunch.

Svi could be a Jonas Jerebko or a Luigi Datome ...nothing to get hung up on
He's Jiri Welsch. One good year and all.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Giving up assets to "upgrade" from Theis to Bjelica (I wouldn't make that trade straight up, Theis's defense is really underrated here) or Semi to Svi strikes me as a terrible idea. I haven't seen much of Svi since his Kansas days, but he was a pretty terrible defender in the Big 12 and I can't imagine he's much better against pros. He's due for some positive regression shooting the ball, but even then he's one-dimensional. Delon Wright would be a really solid, under-the-radar get though.
Theis is a really valuable player. I wish there were a way to keep him but he is almost certainly going to get offered a lot of money elsewhere. And then we will post "why can't we get players like that" when he abuses the Celtics in a season or two (while drawing very few fouls!). I am hoping his impending free agency means he won't go out in any deal but I can see some acquiring teams thinking that bringing him in for a few months might give them an advantage to sign him.
 

shoelace

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Theis is a really valuable player. I wish there were a way to keep him but he is almost certainly going to get offered a lot of money elsewhere. And then we will post "why can't we get players like that" when he abuses the Celtics in a season or two (while drawing very few fouls!). I am hoping his impending free agency means he won't go out in any deal but I can see some acquiring teams thinking that bringing him in for a few months might give them an advantage to sign him.
Agreed, I'm curious to see how his market shakes out. He feels like he could get anywhere from $10,000,000-15,000,000 per season. I feel like it's almost inevitable, given his good relationship with Hayward and Rozier, that he goes to the Hornets who have no veteran big men under contract for next season.
 

BigSoxFan

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I’m pretty content with our big man rotation this year. Thompson is the banger/rebounder, Theis is the perimeter shooter, and TL is the rim protector/shot blocker. I’d certainly take Bjelica at minimal cost but overall pretty good with where we are. They’re all playing well and offer different things so Brad’s ability to mix and match them is pretty good.

I wouldn’t spend any real assets upgrading the bigs. Just doesn’t seem worth it.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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good lord, Jiri average 27 mpg for the 2003-4 Celtics

He did share the court with Mark Blount, so Jiri has that going for him
Hey now, Jiri Welsch was traded for the 2007 first-round pick (!!!!) that was in turn traded to Phoenix for the Rondo pick. Pretty great legacy.