I think my point was he has more than freedom now, and I picked the position for the Paul comp for a reason. Running an NBA team is great, being a mid-level exec isn't.
Tatum got the bag(5 years, $195 million)
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
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Is “low talent, hard working journeymen” as positive a description as anyone here has ever been with Semi?
I respect how hard Semi works and tries when he gets in the game. I won’t be surprised when he locks up the sixth wing/defensive specialist role again this season for chump change.
Ha, it's not happening. It's pure fantasy.
If you follow financial markets, tons of private companies are getting purchased for insane $$$/valuations right now (see SPACs/Chamath). Like 2006 Stockton, CA, housing boom nutz. Selling Pure Sweat would mean he'd be more than a mid-level exec.
Rich Paul did sell a stake in Klutch to United Talent Agency (UTA). He was made a partner, Head of UTA Sports & is now on the BOD. That's kind of how it works when you sell/divest your business, you don't become a grunt, mid-level executive. You collect your $50MM, and do what the hell you want around the place.
Yeah, I get that. I think the thing with Pure Sweat though is... if you move in-house with the Celtics, no matter what they paid for it (if it's even allowed by the NBA) you're still going to be the guy who develops the Celtics' players, you don't get a say in who those players are, you have to follow NBA and team rules etc. Where now, he gets to pick and choose stars and future stars, go wherever he wants do what he wants. I think he could probably sell to a non-NBA private company just as easily who would want to let him do his thing, but expand out the back end selling branded supplements, video workouts, branded equipment etc. off the back of his NBA star profile.
We agree that the best value to NBA owners/teams is having 3 All-Stars on a roster (even on max deals), right?
The motivation for an NBA owner to take a stake in Pure Sweat is to have stars like Bradley Beal, Joel Embiid, Jayson Tatum, Zach Lavine, etc team up/force their way to the team Heatles style*. The ancillary benefit is Hanlen's staff would get to extensively work with the rest of the roster most of the year.
I was joking about the Celtics buying Pure Sweat. I have no idea what their topline or CAGR is, but it wouldn't take much for a sponsor like Chamath (Warriors part-owner) to raise 9-figures for that business.
*I doubt Pure Sweat/Hanlen has that kind of pull
I can't think of another experience that be like being in a closed gym and watching the best players in the world scrimmage against each other.
Eric Cressey did it in baseball, so it's happened before. Cressey is the director of strength and conditioning for the Yankees while still owning his own performance business in which pitchers from other teams still come to work out with him in the offseason. If Hanlan wanted to work for a team while still owning and operating his own business I think that would be doable.
Dude just keeps getting bigger, will be even more unstoppable at the rim next year.
View: https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1412038021164285958?s=20
View: https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1412038021164285958?s=20
Tatum is 23. Bam is 23. Chances are, he's not much older than 19. It probably doesn't help him he's of normal height.
View: https://twitter.com/celtics/status/1412889215281598468
Jayson Tatum says of Ime Udoka, "From the conversations I’ve had with him since he got the job, I can tell he’s just really, really excited. It’s going to be fun and we’re going to try to accomplish something big."
View: https://twitter.com/celtics/status/1412888248070901760
Jayson Tatum, speaking at Team USA practice, says of our offseason changes: "Change is good sometimes. I’m excited about our new coach, Ime (Udoka)." He said it was tough to see Kemba Walker go, but he's "happy to have Al (Horford) back... He looked better in green anyway."
Jayson Tatum says of Ime Udoka, "From the conversations I’ve had with him since he got the job, I can tell he’s just really, really excited. It’s going to be fun and we’re going to try to accomplish something big."
View: https://twitter.com/celtics/status/1412888248070901760
Jayson Tatum, speaking at Team USA practice, says of our offseason changes: "Change is good sometimes. I’m excited about our new coach, Ime (Udoka)." He said it was tough to see Kemba Walker go, but he's "happy to have Al (Horford) back... He looked better in green anyway."
Let’s dispel (sic) once and for all with this fiction that Jayson Tatum will ever be anything other than 19.
Tatum’s last 2 season have been pretty good. Expecting a big bounce back on the defensive end this upcoming season. His most recent season is the top one. Will post Jaylen and Smart’s later, as well.
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Be careful. Single value metrics are very triggering around these parts because folks feel that they don't tell you anything about the actual player. I mean, we discuss and compare players using contracts all the time but those *single value* metrics are ones with which we are familiar.
People don't like them when they are used incorrectly, which is pretty much all the time.
I’d like to see Tatum’s defensive numbers broken down into games w/Jaylen and games wo/Jaylen. Players who are asked to carry a large offensive burden are generally going to conserve their energy on the defensive end.
Your complaint, IIRC, was that single value metrics don't tell you about certain attributes like defense. If there are any examples of people misusing a newer shorthand stat which is meant to encapsulate a players total value, by all means cite it.
I would as well. I am not a true believe in any metric. My view is that we should not be dismissing anything before investigating it thoroughly. The single value metrics are just an easy jumping off point
You recall incorrectly. And I'm not going to point out all the times someone used DARKO or LEBRON or whatever other stat to suggest Player X is better than Player Y. You have been here a long time. Don't feign ignorance.
This is a great POV.
Those pics posted above are good examples of factoring in multiple viewpoints and forming an opinion. To that use, I love the metrics. And we can also point to the outliers and drill into why they are the way they are, to the extent that we can see into the black box anyway...and perhaps how those outliers differ on different players too.
Data is fantastic and good, and we should be glad for it.
I don't feign anything. I am very straightforward on this site. I like these metrics and frankly any attempt to improve measurement of players and form a better system to evaluate individuals and rosters. You have stated you don't like them which is entirely fine but I cannot recall people misusing them even if they don't understand them. The systems themselves are pretty straightforward in terms of ranking players, even if people disagree with the methodology.
My rant is done here - you are a stats person and these aren't your bag which is entirely fair but Bowiac's post on this matter in the math thread settled it for me. The industry is using some forms of these metrics - if NBA teams are using the concept in some form, that is validation enough for me.
I don't dislike any stats. I'm for all of them, being used correctly.
If I see them used incorrectly, I'll probably rail about how much the stats suck but I don't actually think they suck.
The below are the last two years from Jaylen. The first one is from two seasons ago, then the bottom this past season. Shows what a lot of this site says, very good offensively, but not as good defensively as he can be portrayed.
Entirely fair though I still don't understand what using a single value stat incorrectly means. If say LEBRON has player X at a higher value than another metric or the overall results are really flawed, I get it. But if you compare players using RAPTOR or another system, you are supposed to be able to say that a player grading out higher than another player is superior. That doesn't make it correct but it is absolutely how its supposed to be used for a quick evaluation. I cannot recall a single instance of someone using one of these metrics here and getting the ranking part wrong but if the issue is that the system itself yields bad results, that is another conversation.
In any event, that data on Tatum is pretty impressive and he likely still has a lot of upside. We are watching a supernova happen in real time.
Different take from mine entirely. I think that most of the stats are pretty bad, in that they're not predictive to the standard to which we have become accustomed with baseball. But en masse, they tell you things. And we'll never get to a point where they're as good as baseball's (or even close) unless we ride this growth curve. I appreciate those who build them (including the esteemed Bowiac).
Below is Smart’s last two years, figured I’d just throw them all in here instead of bumping the Smart/Jaylen threads. Now just like any advanced/impact stat, it’s easier for role players to grade highly. It’s why I hate when people use them to rank players, I just like looking at the collective, and mixing it with eye test/raw stats.
Am I reading this wrong? So RAPM and Raptor say that Brown improved, and Luck adjusted RAPM and Lebron box think that he declined, and the others are mixed.
And my last one, I promise lol. Horford from this past season, in OKC. Dude can still be a very effective player for 25ish mpg, I’m excited to see him out there this season.
Nah, you are reading it correctly. RPM really liked Jaylen this past season, but IIRC, bowiac said nobody really has any clue what’s going on with the stat since the founder left for the nba (Mavs I believe).
Luck adjusted RAPM is a good stat, but it absolutely undersells Jaylen lol.
Another thing is the eyeball test probably means more in the NBA than any other team sport. I think by default the advanced metrics mean less or tell you less info than they would in MLB or the NFL. I don't follow NHL so I won't pretend to know.
I did a (semi) deep dive on hockey stats when I thought we were getting a client in the business. They seemed pretty basic compared to other sports.
MLB is always going to be the easiest to model because the variables are so much more finite.
1 of the 2 RPM guys works for the Mavs (Engelmann). Not sure where Ilardi works, but apparently ESPN has been tasked with keeping up the model & they are not great at it.
MLB is always going to be the easiest to model because the variables are so much more finite.
1 of the 2 RPM guys works for the Mavs (Engelmann). Not sure where Ilardi works, but apparently ESPN has been tasked with keeping up the model & they are not great at it.
Thanks, and thanks for pulling these. I think that this kind of layout adds a lot to the conversation.
Apropos of not much, I was looking at bref & saw that Tatum has scored the 2nd most points all time in the playoffs as an NBA rookie (351 points in 19 games, behind only Kareem who had 352 points in 10 games).
The interesting thing, to me at least, is he did it as a 19 y/o. The next most playoff points by a 19 y/o?
& after him?
The interesting thing, to me at least, is he did it as a 19 y/o. The next most playoff points by a 19 y/o?
#55 Tony Parker with 155 points in 10 games.
& after him?
No one else in the top 120 (at least 100 points)
95 here we come!
Hanlan in the lab cooking up plans to draw more fouls/FTs
https://www.celticsblog.com/2021/8/18/22630755/must-cs-jayson-tatum-makes-the-case-for-a-higher-nba2k-rating-boston-celtics-up-for-the-challenge
Hanlan in the lab cooking up plans to draw more fouls/FTs
https://www.celticsblog.com/2021/8/18/22630755/must-cs-jayson-tatum-makes-the-case-for-a-higher-nba2k-rating-boston-celtics-up-for-the-challenge
We may just have a guy here that knows quite a bit about hockey stats and their advancements:
@Frisbetarian come on down if you're here.
Let me know when Tatum starts being concerned with winning Championships and not with NBA2k or all star games.
Probably the following year after his buddy joins him
obviously, you're joking. BUT it's a pretty standard progression from a future NBA superstar.
1. Put up #'s in regular season and playoffs... check
2. All-Star games/All-NBA... check
3. Get MAX /Sneaker deal / National ad campaigns... check
4. Olympic Gold... check
5. Surround yourself with two Stars/familiarize yourself with new teammates.... 2/3s of the way there
6. Get over the age of 25 when fully grown...
7. Start playing in Championships and winning them...
It's all about the 2023 playoffs and beyond...sorry you're going to have to be patient.
Guy has been in the league 4 years and played in 50 playoff games, going to the conference finals twice. Imagine how good he'd be if he cared.
Obviously I have no idea what motivates Jason Tatum. And it's obvious from his +/- numbers that he impacts the team play in an incredibly effective way. But what I hear from him publicly seems to be more about individual accolades and less about a burning desire to see the Celtics win championships. Call me old fashioned, but I'd like a little more of the latter and less of the former. That's all.
Wasnt that an obvious piece of marketing for NBA 2k? Are we upset that Gronk was thinking about Dunkin Donuts and not Super Bowls? This is madness.