Tatum got the bag(5 years, $195 million)
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
- Start date
You record spinners are so weird. You got me over here wondering if I don’t know my left from my right.
One on the left to be his rookie season.
Here's a video that was posted 12 hours ago. No idea how old it is.
View: https://twitter.com/i/status/1434174745256288262
I recognize that perimeter defense anywhere.
Kanter's feel-good vibe is there to put on the finishing touches.
Get it done Enes!
Kanter's feel-good vibe is there to put on the finishing touches.
Get it done Enes!
If lack of lateral movement was a basketball skill Kanter would be elite. It would not surprise me to learn that Enes has been regularly excused from up and back drills since he was a kid. If not, his U7 team may well still be waiting for practice to finish.
I follow your posting closely enough to know this joke has been recycled. Something about still waiting on a close out from 2018 ;p
I prefer to think of it as playing the hits but unplugged.
Back to Tatum, I am struggling to think of which + defender in the NBA could lock him up for an extended period of time (say more than a quarter). He is just so versatile right now - if this trajectory continues, the answer will be obvious.
Nobody.
You could think of it as a series of putback attempts, which is pretty apt for Kanter.
Regarding your question, as with most guys at that level I don't think any one guy will be able to hold him back for a full game. That said, he definitely still has weaknesses that teams can scheme for, like if they force him to finish against length. But thats like the ole "Brady is vulnerable to pressure up the middle" strategy which applies to basically every player in the league.
I'm liking this kind of positivity
30ppg isn't out of the question if
-JT takes the ball into the defender's chest, which leads to more FTA &
-Al sets him up for more open catch/shoot 3s
Kawhi and LeBron could do it for a half in a playoff series if need be. They'd have a tough time keeping it up due to age and offensive responsibility, but I could see it. Kawhi for obvious reasons (he's been the most devastating perimeter defender for the last dozen years, although he's had to conserve his energy for the last few), and LeBron because he'd be able to body up Tatum and hack him to death in the 4th quarter of a playoff game without the whistle blowing.
Let’s not get carried away. Quicker big defenders can stay in front of Tatum and force him to settle for long shots. You can’t prevent him from taking those shots and there are nights he makes them all but we have seen him stuck settling for stepback 3s and Fadeaways plenty of times for entire halves or more. He’s a heck of a player and you hope he continues to work on his ability to drive but I think it’s too much to claim he’s become unstoppable. The next step for his game is finding that consistency every single night regardless of scheme and who they throw at him
Very true, and it's also worth remembering that players are scoring more ppg at greater efficiency than basically ever before. Tatum was one of 15 players who averaged 25+ last year (12 in 2020, 11 in 2019, 7 in 2018), and on that list he was 12th in ppg and 13th in TS%. It's worth nothing that this group doesn't even include the two best scorers of this generation (LeBron and Durant), as they didn't play enough to qualify. Nor does it include Harden, as he didn't play enough to qualify and he let his offense take a step back to play point guard when he went to Brooklyn.
Tatum was younger than most, but it's a young group - 9 of those 15 guys were 25 or younger. I'd buy an argument that says his ceiling as a scorer is greater than anyone (since he took the leap in early 2020, his best case has had him looking like a slightly shorter, quicker Durant), but any discussion of his production thus far has to be tempered slightly with the reality that there are a LOT of good offensive players in the league right now, many of them with their best years in front of them.
Tatum was younger than most, but it's a young group - 9 of those 15 guys were 25 or younger. I'd buy an argument that says his ceiling as a scorer is greater than anyone (since he took the leap in early 2020, his best case has had him looking like a slightly shorter, quicker Durant), but any discussion of his production thus far has to be tempered slightly with the reality that there are a LOT of good offensive players in the league right now, many of them with their best years in front of them.
It’s also worth noting though, that Tatum’s covid recovery dragged down his numbers. His three point shooting was mediocre/bad for the 4-6 weeks post covid (roughly .320). Outside that stretch he was at roughly .430 on volume (roughly 7.5/game). He’s a monstah.
I am defining what I mean poorly. It seems like we still differ though because I clearly have Tatum in the class of NBA player who will, more often than not, get what they want in terms of spots etc. I understand that the data isn't supportive of this overall but that next level we saw into the playoffs is real imo. He was ungaurdable then and nobody can argue that teams weren't trying to stop him.
This board underrates Tatum and Cs players in general.
Oh come on. There are many here who wouldn't trade Tatum for Giannis
If Tatum ever gets to 30ppg it will be bc Jaylen is out for an extended period and/or we don’t end up with Beal…….
so for that reason, I’m out as ever wanting Tatum to be a 30ppg player.
I would like to see him add the signature Pierce move of upfaking the defender into the air, drawing the contact, and only then releasing his shot for the and 1. He did it once in the Brooklyn series (missing the shot though), but it's not something I recall him doing before. That's a way for him to improve his efficiancy in the mid range game.
I hear you but it’s not an unreasonable ceiling.
His PPG by season:
13.9 2017-18
15.7 2018-19
23.4 2019-20
26.4 2020-21
Minus COVID he might have been close to 30 PPG last season. And he’s already exceeded that threshold when it matters most in the postseason.
Remember that Jaylen missed a quarter of the season last year. In those games, Tatum’s usage, FGA and PPG all increased……and that was without Beal in the mix. So yeah, he certainly “could” get to 30ppg as Beal did based off volume……but that isn’t going to help us reach our ultimate goal of building a loaded roster to win a Championship.
Worth noting that in games Tatum played without Jaylen (13 regular season, 5 playoffs), Tatum averaged 29.2 ppg. Not hard to see that ticking up to 30. If Jaylen is out for longer.
I think Leonard or George are the ones I think of but the reality is that even if we acknowledge that we mostly have flawed defensive metrics, both have declined as defenders by most measures. The main point is that they appear to be taking more defensive sequences off as they age and their roles evolve. This is especially true of LeBron.
This doesn't mean they or others can't slow Tatum in spots but its hard to see someone shutting him down for most of a game or series.
Just don't see overall scoring going down in the NBA, so many 3pt shooters on the floor at all times. So there is that macro environment
Plus Marcus, Richardson, TL, Horford, DS really won't get us all that many points. They will primarily be moving the ball into Tatum, Brown and eventually Beal's hands to score.
Jaylen should also see an uptick in scoring. Beal PPG/USG% would move lower
This is good, both JAYS are efficient scorers and getting better*.
We just don't want the ball sticking in one spot: move it, shoot it or drive. No more standing on the perimeter, dribbling out the clock by bouncing the ball between the legs and hoisting at the 24 buzzer
just added this disclaimer
* Every off-season we go through this. Someone whips out Jaylen or Tatum's adv metrics over the last season or two and earmarks next season based on that. That's not happening. Death, taxes and the JAYS continue to improve. They are young, supreme athletes, that intelligently work on their craft, and have great coaching. Those are the basic ingredients for improvement.
Feel free to rip me when Tatum starts declining or scoring less.
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Nobody is ripping anyone only pointing out that Tatum (and Beal’s) ppg is inflated when they are surrounded by bad players. Tatum isn’t forgoing an iso with a double coming when he has Semi or Grant to rotate the ball to……that will change when those players are J-Rich and Horford. It’s a trust thing and a good thing now that this is happening.
Tatum's scoring did get ridiculous when everyone was out.
But Kemba's gone. Horford knows how to kick out from the paint, and
Marcus is signed LT so points mean next to nothing to him
I understand your concern but the whole damn NBA is scoring tons of points, so 30ppg today isn't the same as 30ppg from 10yrs ago
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32l4gIoxfY8
This article is great https://www.si.com/nba/2021/09/07/paul-pierce-celtics-hall-of-fame-daily-cover
Relevant to Tatum's play last year, and some criticisms about the lack of ball movement, we have this quote from Paul Pierce:
Relevant to Tatum's play last year, and some criticisms about the lack of ball movement, we have this quote from Paul Pierce:
"There’s a lot of stuff over there that you can’t say. And you have to talk about LeBron all the time.”
ESPN in a nutshell.
ESPN in a nutshell.
Exactly what I’ve been preaching regarding Tatum and Jaylen’s “lack of playmaking.” You need to have trusted teammates around you to be a playmaker.
This is true but... Tatum has improved markedly as a playmaker during his time in the league. Assists per 36: 1.9-2.5-3.2-4.3. Assist percentage: 8.3-10.0-14.5-20.3. I mean he's not Larry Bird out there but there is a steady progression.
What we really can criticize Tatum for is doing too many isos that are very low percentage shots for him. Hopefully that is where the trusted teammate thing will help him.
But during Jiri’s stint here, he received more Tommy Points than any player. How can he suck, Paul????
Great article and I’m glad he doesn’t give a fuck about ESPN. His Lebron obsession has gone from mildly funny to Chris Sims on Tom Brady levels of pathetic though.
I wouldn’t use such a raw number such as assists as that increase is simply a product of his increased usage over the years and more specifically how defenses attacked with the increase in double teams off his iso’s last season.
Yeah this is a solid point. I think that we want to see both Jays assist percentage continue to rise.
Using Kawhi as an example of a scorer who's not naturally a creator for others, he has gotten his assist% into the mid 20s. JT is already at 20ish last year and trending up. JB hit 16.5% last year, also trending up. That's what we want to see imo. Kawhi didn't exceed 13% until his 6th year in the league, so our young guys are ahead of his schedule.
I mean I’m not sure one line aimed at ESPN’s obsession qualifies. Honestly ESPN’s NBA coverage is nearly unwatchable with its All LeBron, All the Time!!! shtick in this golden age of basketball. Not that this is a change from their Kobe coverage back in the day, but old superstars breaking down is not the part of the game to be highlighting.
I love that I live in a country where one can have their choice of trashy strip mall hookah lounges.
It's not one line. For someone concerned about how he always had to talk about Lebron, he sure loves to talk about Lebron. He is Rob Parker awful when it comes to him. Some of that is because they played each other in some high profile games, and Lebron ended up winning a championship with Ray, so I'm sure there's a lot of other stuff at play.
Two weeks ago he said Lebron isn't a top 5 player if he doesn't win a championship this year. This would be a wild statement, but he does stuff like that all the time. This wasn't on ESPN, so he wasn't forced to talk about him. He just can't help himself. He is one of the old guard players (see Rasheed this week) that think they played in a tougher era, and that the League is now soft. That may be the case, but it has nothing to do with Lebron, who would have been terrifying in the 90's, the 80's, or any era. If you don't think he's the GOAT, then he is definitely top 5, and arguments to the contrary are not based on objective analysis at this point.
Paul Pierce is alongside Pedro and TB12 for my favorite athletes of all time. I love the guy. He just cannot deal with the level of success Lebron has achieved.
This is correct. As far as GOAT it’s easy to say Bill Russell, and then it’s easy to counter that by pointing out his era and the number of teams etc. But the only guy that I think would have maybe probably won 11 of the next 13 titles if you dropped him on the Celtics at age 22 instead of Russell in 1956 is James. That’s why I begrudgingly feels he’s the GOAT.
If you dropped current Lebron (as of his age 22 season) onto that Celtics team, he would likely have won 13 of the next 13. Maybe more.
One of the 2 playoff series that Russell lost was a result of his badly spraining his ankle in Game 3 of the Finals matchup against St. Louis. The series was tied 1-1 at the time. Given that the Celtics subsequent 3 Celtics losses were by 3 (the game in which Russell got hurt), 2, and 1, it's not inconceivable that the Celtics would have won that series had Russell been able to play beyond the ineffective 20 minutes he posted in Game 6.
In my book, LeBron can join Jordan in the center of the inner sanctum of the basketball elite. Russell can guard the entrance to the center sanctum; Wilt and Kareem can sit and watch, while Bird and Magic keep their eyes out for new recruits.
Enough of the LBJ discussion. JT says that his goal is to be on the NBA All-defensive team. Wouldn't that be fun to watch?
View: https://twitter.com/celtics/status/1444315019399806979?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
View: https://twitter.com/celtics/status/1444315019399806979?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
If Tatum's on the all D team that bodes very well for the C's this season. That's the kind of commitment you want from your best player.