Texans game goat thread

ShaneTrot

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It’s so weird that in the last 25 years of Patriots football, the majority of which they had the best QB of all time, they have had one highly drafted WR, Deion Branch do well. But have received a lot of valuable play from guys drafted late like Givens and Edelman. Their best WRs today were Douglas and Boutte two late rounders.
 

NickEsasky

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It’s so weird that in the last 25 years of Patriots football, the majority of which they had the best QB of all time, they have had one highly drafted WR, Deion Branch do well. But have received a lot of valuable play from guys drafted late like Givens and Edelman. Their best WRs today were Douglas and Boutte two late rounders.
Even crazier that Edelman was a QB in college too.
 

snowmanny

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It was me, and it was as part of a post about how the goat thread was is silly because it's not based on who contributed to most to the loss, but rather just people being randomly mad
I’m not mad, but they look like a bottom three team again with no real way out. They have way more bad than good and no real great. That’s a failure at the top.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Coach who? Again, the roster is deeply untalented. We've already seen what the best coach of all time could do with most of the same guys, and that's zilch. Mayo is not the problem. Years of empty drafts is - they physically cannot compete with good teams, and that's why they lost today.
I might say the same thing every week.

If folks look at these games and coaching decisions from the viewpoint that wins are not the goal, it makes a lot more sense. They are building information to figure out which players should be here long term.
 

NickEsasky

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I might say the same thing every week.

If folks look at these games and coaching decisions from the viewpoint that wins are not the goal, it makes a lot more sense. They are building information to figure out which players should be here long term.
If wins aren’t the goal for the head coach he shouldn’t be a head coach. As fans, the best outcome is to lose and restock via the draft. But Mayo isn’t a fan.
 
Oct 12, 2023
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Coach who? Again, the roster is deeply untalented. We've already seen what the best coach of all time could do with most of the same guys, and that's zilch. Mayo is not the problem. Years of empty drafts is - they physically cannot compete with good teams, and that's why they lost today.
“Years of empty drafts” is a huge stretch

People overstate how bad the drafting has been relative to league averages. Barmore, Gonzalez, Onwenu, Dugger, Douglas, White, Stevenson, Jennings, Uche are all core and good or useful players. Sow, Mapu, Baringer, Boutte, M.Jones and a couple others have roles

Missing on Mac and the almost complete whiff of 2022 (although Strange might provide something if he can get healthy) is bad but it’s not catastrophic, set the franchise back 10 years bad.

People should be more concerned that the roster - apparently terrible - had no noticeable upgrades added other than Maye.

4 win roster and Gibson over Elliott was the big off-season success story. It should have been easy to find some improvements. Wolf failed to improve the roster in any meaningful way. That should be a much bigger story than what Belichick did in the draft in 2021 or whatever
 

Eddie Jurak

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And logically it didn't match what he had just done which was to go for it on 4th down. There's just no consistent logic or plan to anything he does.
They converted the 4th and 3, then ran 3 plays: a -1 yard rush, an incomplete pass, and a 4 yard pass to set up a 4th and 7 from the 17 with 9 seconds left. I don’t think it is crazy to let the clock run out then in a 41-21 game.
 

Steve Dillard

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I’m not mad, but they look like a bottom three team again with no real way out. They have way more bad than good and no real great. That’s a failure at the top.
They're going to have to draft their way out, and if Polk, Robinson, Wallace and Baker are the first draft, then there's concern about evaluation. Anyone know if Wolf kept BB's college draft evaluators (since that work was in the can)? And are they still on staff, or is Wolf brining in his group?
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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They converted the 4th and 3, then ran 3 plays: a -1 yard rush, an incomplete pass, and a 4 yard pass to set up a 4th and 7 from the 17 with 9 seconds left. I don’t think it is crazy to let the clock run out then in a 41-21 game.
It clearly mattered to them to pick up the 1st on 4th down, but then they just didn't try after that.

That makes zero sense, and it does a disservice to Maye. It was incredibly stupid. You have to try to score there. It helps no one to just give up. It's incredibly disrespectful to the players and the fans.
 

Eddie Jurak

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They're going to have to draft their way out, and if Polk, Robinson, Wallace and Baker are the first draft, then there's concern about evaluation. Anyone know if Wolf kept BB's college draft evaluators (since that work was in the can)? And are they still on staff, or is Wolf brining in his group?
I think it is a bit early to be writing off 4 players drafted in rounds 2 through 5 who have a total of 11 games played.
 

Eddie Jurak

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It clearly mattered to them to pick up the 1st on 4th down, but then they just didn't try after that.

That makes zero sense, and it does a disservice to Maye. It was incredibly stupid. You have to try to score there. It helps no one to just give up. It's incredibly disrespectful to the players and the fans.
They ran 3 plays. Never in the whole drive did they call a time out.
 

Deathofthebambino

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If wins aren’t the goal for the head coach he shouldn’t be a head coach. As fans, the best outcome is to lose and restock via the draft. But Mayo isn’t a fan.
He's also an employee and his bosses are fans.

This team isn't winning 10 games, they aren't going to be in contention for a playoff spot. They don't even know who is going to be on the offensive line from week to week. Trying to run plays that help them gather information on the players they have is, IMO, as a fan or as a coach, far more important than trying to beat the Vegas O/U of 4.5 wins.

I think Mayo has at least a year to build this thing out, they aren't firing him this season or in the offseason, barring some off field disaster. Incremental improvement should be the expectation at this point, and building Drake Maye.
 
Oct 12, 2023
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Gonzo was competitive today. Gave up 77 yards and a TD on an island to a top 10ish WR. Tough crowd.

If you want to blame someone for that 60 yard TD, blame someone named Armon Watts, who shoved Pierce forward out of the pile instead of trying to tackle him.
Armon Watts isn’t even on the roster so that would be quite a feat
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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He's also an employee and his bosses are fans.

This team isn't winning 10 games, they aren't going to be in contention for a playoff spot. They don't even know who is going to be on the offensive line from week to week. Trying to run plays that help them gather information on the players they have is, IMO, as a fan or as a coach, should be far more important than trying to beat the Vegas O/U of 4.5 wins.

I think Mayo has at least a year to build this thing out, they aren't firing him this season or in the offseason, barring some off field disaster. Incremental improvement should be the expectation at this point, and building Drake Maye.
This is reasonable, but what's so concerning is that there has been seemingly zero incremental improvement. They're so much worse than even last year. And Mayo is being trusted to oversee a massive rebuild when he's never even called plays before.

It doesn't inspire confidence.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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If they did what you ask for, and Maye suffered a season ending injury, you wiukd be the first guy robbed ripping into them for taking a stupid risk.
If they were concerned about a possible injury then they shouldn't have gone for it on 4th down.

Instead they both risked him AND denied him more reps and a chance for another TD. One of the stupidest outcomes they could possibly have tried for.
 

Seels

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agree with the Mayo stuff. Team is hard to watch and not just because they suck but because they get penalized so often. Looks like a 2000s - 2010s Raiders team. Shit content to watch even if you're expecting them to lose.

1. AVP. Hated the hire and his playcalling isn't winning me over.
2. Mayo -- just what the fuck man, get your team more disciplined, you too actually
 

Deathofthebambino

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This is reasonable, but what's so concerning is that there has been seemingly zero incremental improvement. They're so much worse than even last year. And Mayo is being trusted to oversee a massive rebuild when he's never even called plays before.

It doesn't inspire confidence.
The first sentence isn't true though. Just today, we saw improvement from Drake Maye from the first snap to the last. Pop Douglas looked better today than he has all year. Boutte finally flashed a bit. I haven't dissected any tape, but every snap gives them more information on what this offensive line can do and not do. Defensively, they faced a great RB, really good QB, two very good receivers including an absolute burner. I'm sure they saw some guys make plays both near and away from the ball that we won't notice in real time.

And not getting incremental improvement from guys is also worthwhile information (no matter how much it sucks for us to see). This is a ground up rebuild. They need to know if the guys on the roster now have roles moving forward or not, and good tape or bad tape helps in that decision making.
 

Bowhemian

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If they were concerned about a possible injury then they shouldn't have gone for it on 4th down.

Instead they both risked him AND denied him more reps and a chance for another TD. One of the stupidest outcomes they could possibly have tried for.
What did you think they should have done on 4th down? Take a knee? Kick a meaningless FG? Punt?
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Mayo stinks but the best coach of all time would probably win like 4 games with this roster. There’s a laughable amount of talent on this roster, and the most recent draft doesn’t look great. Hopefully next year they nail it!
 

ShaneTrot

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agree with the Mayo stuff. Team is hard to watch and not just because they suck but because they get penalized so often. Looks like a 2000s - 2010s Raiders team. Shit content to watch even if you're expecting them to lose.

1. AVP. Hated the hire and his playcalling isn't winning me over.
2. Mayo -- just what the fuck man, get your team more disciplined, you too actually
I think BB really missed Ernie Adams on game day after Ernie retired. The Pats have not been a smooth operation since Ernie retired. Evan Rothstein is purportedly Mayo’s consigliere. He may need someone else.
 

DJnVa

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Still waiting for someone to point out the solutions to the OL problem that Wolf ignored. This was NEVER going to be a 1 draft/1 free agency fix.
 

NickEsasky

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He's also an employee and his bosses are fans.

This team isn't winning 10 games, they aren't going to be in contention for a playoff spot. They don't even know who is going to be on the offensive line from week to week. Trying to run plays that help them gather information on the players they have is, IMO, as a fan or as a coach, far more important than trying to beat the Vegas O/U of 4.5 wins.

I think Mayo has at least a year to build this thing out, they aren't firing him this season or in the offseason, barring some off field disaster. Incremental improvement should be the expectation at this point, and building Drake Maye.
I 100% agree with your last paragraph. But it sounds like your earlier post was the opposite of that. Should Kraft want to see that too? He can’t enjoy watching his multi-billion dollar baby lose value week after week.
 

NickEsasky

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Still waiting for someone to point out the solutions to the OL problem that Wolf ignored. This was NEVER going to be a 1 draft/1 free agency fix.
Not draft Polk and take an OT there instead is certainly a start.
 

DJnVa

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They're so much worse than even last year.
Are they?

They're averaging about the same amount of points on offense, and, I'd expect they end up bettering that since Maye looks competent. I'd expect the offense looks better from here on out.

Defense looks a little worse for wear, but seems fair to point out the Barmore and Wheatley injuries.
 
Oct 12, 2023
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Still waiting for someone to point out the solutions to the OL problem that Wolf ignored. This was NEVER going to be a 1 draft/1 free agency fix.
Signing Eluemunor (who has allowed 0 sacks this year) instead of wasting money on Okorafor could have helped

Washington went from a trash OL to moderately competent in one off-season drafting Coleman, signing 3 new starters

Carolina solidified their interior OL nicely signing Hunt and Lewis

Drafting just about any tackle over Polk at 37 couldn’t have hurt, considering Polk looks like a total waste of space

Wolf knew Strange was hurt long term. He knew what he had in Sow and Mafi. He knew the in house options at tackle were nonexistent and the depth on the interior was thin at best

His solution was picking up a swing tackle/backup cut by a team with a bad OL for being a head case, a guy who played 4 games last year (Leverett) and drafting a couple of guys who are raw (some would say reaches)

It’s absolutely baffling that people think there’s nothing Wolf could have done to get better talent at OL

Apparently the only solution to OL is nail first rounders every year?

The team had a bad OL last year and he didn’t do a single thing which has worked out as an improvement. That’s a failure. We’ve seen teams with trash OL last year perform OK this year and show improvement. It’s not an impossible task to improve an OL without using a first round pick.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Who? Name your claim. Then describe how that guy would stabilize this OL.
So there’s no possible way that the OL could be any better? No trades or free agent signings that could have been done? Just this is what is?

If so, why should we expect any different next year?
 

twibnotes

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I think BB really missed Ernie Adams on game day after Ernie retired. The Pats have not been a smooth operation since Ernie retired. Evan Rothstein is purportedly Mayo’s consigliere. He may need someone else.
Seems you’d want a you bc coach to have a veteran consigliere, like someone who was once a HC
 
Oct 12, 2023
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Are they?

They're averaging about the same amount of points on offense, and, I'd expect they end up bettering that since Maye looks competent. I'd expect the offense looks better from here on out.

Defense looks a little worse for wear, but seems fair to point out the Barmore and Wheatley injuries.
Injuries are a part of the game though. You need depth at the critical positions. They played most of last season without their #1 CB and edge rusher and still were solid enough.

Losing a good, not great, DT and a solid off ball linebacker shouldn’t be such huge losses to have to make excuses for. It’s not like they’re losing prime Warren Sapp and Ray Lewis. The fundamentals on D look shaky and the depth guys seem to be pretty bad.
 

Ed Hillel

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I’d love to see Baker get some reps, if the discipline thing isn’t in the way. See what chemistry the two have, if any. We’ll see what Bourne has to give the next few weeks, but if it’s not much, maybe take some of those snaps.
 

Jungleland

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Polk over line help bothers me less for right now and more for the long term outlook. I know the guy everyone wanted (Suamataia) has really struggled and would have been a reach himself, but the lack of high ceiling developmental pieces at line on the roster is concerning and if the idea is mid to late round swings it's going to take a long time to find them even if they do take a tackle early in the next draft. I don't give that much of a shit that the line is ass this season, but I'm worried as hell that they have a single player who's likely to be starting the next time they have a league average line.
 

Deathofthebambino

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I 100% agree with your last paragraph. But it sounds like your earlier post was the opposite of that. Should Kraft want to see that too? He can’t enjoy watching his multi-billion dollar baby lose value week after week.
They aren't losing value, and may never do so in our lifetimes. Reports had the Pats valued at 6.7bil in 2023. After a shit show of a season, they are now valued at almost 8billion. Of the revenue they do, roughly 1/7th is from ticket sales, and those tickets are sold out whether or not anyone shows up at the stadium.

Bob Kraft cares about wins, because he's a fan, but I'm sure he recognizes as much as we do that this team is not competitive, the fastest avenue to a rebuild is to have high draft picks, cap space and letting young players take the field and take their licks to see who you want to keep moving forward. If Kraft were concerned with winning this season, they wouldn't be 31st in the NFL in cap allocations in 2024, and 3rd in remaining cap space.

It's a rebuild, and going 7-10 is worse for a rebuild than going 1-16. They realize this, and I'm honestly surprised that so many fans don't.
 
Oct 12, 2023
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Whichever one works out of course. Can't pick one right now because they've all been bad
OL take time to develop usually (isn’t that the reasoning people are using to justify Wallace and Robinson?). I’d bet that at least one, if not multiple, of those tackles end up being solid NFL players.

The idea that the Pats couldn’t have drafted someone better or higher upside than whatever they’re trotting out there currently or whatever Okorafor provided is laughable.
 
Oct 12, 2023
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They aren't losing value, and may never do so in our lifetimes. Reports had the Pats valued at 6.7bil in 2023. After a shit show of a season, they are now valued at almost 8billion. Of the revenue they do, roughly 1/7th is from ticket sales, and those tickets are sold out whether or not anyone shows up at the stadium.

Bob Kraft cares about wins, because he's a fan, but I'm sure he recognizes as much as we do that this team is not competitive, the fastest avenue to a rebuild is to have high draft picks, cap space and letting young players take the field and take their licks to see who you want to keep moving forward. If Kraft were concerned with winning this season, they wouldn't be 31st in the NFL in cap allocations in 2024, and 3rd in remaining cap space.

It's a rebuild, and going 7-10 is worse for a rebuild than going 1-16. They realize this, and I'm honestly surprised that so many fans don't.
It’s not a rebuild when your roster doesn’t actually improve year over year.

How much “building” did they actually do? They took Maye. Great. The other 52 roster spots are similar or worse than last year. That’s not building anything.
 

8slim

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Offensive line. I know it’s mostly a bunch of 3rd stringers, but they’re awful and were the biggest reason why we lost.

Defense. I don’t know who to pinpoint. The line for getting no pressure, the back 7 for not being able to cover, or everyone for not tackling. But it was all awful.

Wolf. This roster stinks. Not only were the starters bad when the season kicked off, but the bench and additions are terrible as the inevitable injuries have multiplied. This roster reminds me distinctly of those early 90s Pats teams. A few good players surrounded by a sea of junk.