Texans game goat thread

[mcpickl]

Polk was so bad in this game. Besides the two drops that are right on his facemask, the last play of the game he just forgot to look back at the QB as he's just sailing across the field before remembering , oh yeah gotta look for the ball. I haven't given up on him, I didn't think he looked bad before this game, but he played like he was concussed.

Raekwon McMillan is such a massive downgrade from Ja'Whaun Bentley. That spot is going to kill them the rest of the year.

On Maye, I was really impressed with his decisions whether to run or hang in the pocket. It looked like just about every time he ran, the pocket was a mess. When the pocket held, he stayed in and threw. He missed a lot of layups though, which was a knock I read quite a bit in the run up to the draft. Just really inaccurate on some easier throws. Hope he can clean that up.

Good job by the IOL all game. Most of the pressure came from the tackles not being able to block Will Andreson, which is to be expected.

I don't get the big deal about the end of the game. They let Maye drive them down the field, after Polk actually catches the ball on the last play it's going to be 4th and 6 with ten seconds and the clock running down by 20. I don't want them calling timeout there to extend the game. If the clock is stopped, by all means run another play. But I don't think they should be calling timeouts to extend a blowout.

 

[chilidawg]

Polk has three drops on the year. Not great but also not Amari Cooper who leads the NFL with nine.

Most of the year he's been getting targets from a QB who showed an almost complete inability to get the ball to the WR. A QB who has a 58% completion rate with a pitiful 5.2 yds/reception playing behind one of the worst lines that's ever been assembled. Obviously the 10 catches on 24 targets is miserable efficiency, but the QB has to be factored into the equation.

Just saw that Ridley has 9 catches on 27 targets, after being 0/8 today. I'm not sure that stat really means that much because you have no idea how many of those balls were catchable. Polk has also had a couple tough catches where he showed great hands that didn't count because he didn't get a foot down.

Long story short, way too early to write him off (which clearly you're not doing).

 

[BaseballJones]

I don't get the big deal about the end of the game. They let Maye drive them down the field, after Polk actually catches the ball on the last play it's going to be 4th and 6 with ten seconds and the clock running down by 20. I don't want them calling timeout there to extend the game. If the clock is stopped, by all means run another play. But I don't think they should be calling timeouts to extend a blowout.

Here's the issue with the end of the game: It was either (a) a valuable opportunity to get your brand new rookie QB some experience running the 2-minute drill against a live defense trying to stop them, but without the pressure of the game actually hanging in the balance, or (b) a time to say, ok, he's done enough for today, no need to risk injury. Either approach is fine, though many/most of us think (a) was the better play.

But they did neither. Here's the sequence of plays on that last drive:

• 1st & 10 at HOU 44
  (3:26 - 4th) (Shotgun) T.Jennings up the middle to HST 39 for 5 yards (M.Stewart).
• 2nd & 5 at HOU 39
  (2:55 - 4th) (Shotgun) D.Maye pass incomplete short left [K.Davis].
• 3rd & 5 at HOU 39
  (2:50 - 4th) (Shotgun) D.Maye pass incomplete short right to J.Polk.
• 4th & 5 at HOU 39
  (2:43 - 4th) (Shotgun) D.Maye scrambles up the middle to HST 33 for 6 yards (M.Bryant).
• 1st & 10 at HOU 33
  (2:18 - 4th) (Shotgun) T.Jennings right guard to HST 30 for 3 yards (J.Hansen, N.Hewitt).
• 2nd & 7 at HOU 30
  (2:00 - 4th) Two-Minute Warning
• 2nd & 7 at HOU 30
  (1:55 - 4th) (Shotgun) T.Jennings up the middle to HST 26 for 4 yards (M.Edwards; J.Hansen).
• 3rd & 3 at HOU 26
  (1:23 - 4th) (Shotgun) D.Maye pass incomplete deep right to D.Douglas.
• 4th & 3 at HOU 26
  (1:15 - 4th) (Shotgun) D.Maye pass short right to D.Douglas to HST 20 for 6 yards (M.Bryant).
• 1st & 10 at HOU 20
  (0:50 - 4th) (Shotgun) T.Jennings up the middle to HST 21 for -1 yards (K.Davis, J.Hansen).
• 2nd & 11 at HOU 21
  (0:18 - 4th) (Shotgun) D.Maye pass incomplete short left. Thrown away from outside the pocket.
• 3rd & 11 at HOU 21
  (0:09 - 4th) (Shotgun) D.Maye pass short middle to J.Polk to HST 17 for 4 yards (N.Hewitt) [M.Edwards].
• (0:00 - 4th) END GAME

So 11 plays. Of those 11, 4 were runs by Jennings, 6 were passes by Maye, and 1 was a scramble by Maye on a passing play. So 7 of the 11 plays were passes, which indicated that they weren't "playing it safe" and "not risking injury". They put him in harm's way on the last drive, and even went for it on two fourth downs (converting both). But they didn't hustle - at no point in that drive did they hurry up. They huddled and took their time, showing no competitive urgency. If they had wanted to see Maye run the 2-minute drill, then run the 2-minute drill. If you want to play it safe and not risk injury, then don't have him throw 7 of 11 plays.

Crap or get off the toilet. Fish or cut bait. However you want to say it. But either let the kid play and TRY by giving him a legit 2-minute drill, but that would require hurrying up and getting a move on, or play it safe to keep him out of harm's way, but that would require not letting him throw so much.

They didn't TRY to score, but they DID put him in harm's way. The worst of all choices.

 

[mcpickl]

Here's the issue with the end of the game: It was either (a) a valuable opportunity to get your brand new rookie QB some experience running the 2-minute drill against a live defense trying to stop them, but without the pressure of the game actually hanging in the balance, or (b) a time to say, ok, he's done enough for today, no need to risk injury. Either approach is fine, though many/most of us think (a) was the better play.

But they did neither. Here's the sequence of plays on that last drive:

• 1st & 10 at HOU 44
  (3:26 - 4th) (Shotgun) T.Jennings up the middle to HST 39 for 5 yards (M.Stewart).
• 2nd & 5 at HOU 39
  (2:55 - 4th) (Shotgun) D.Maye pass incomplete short left [K.Davis].
• 3rd & 5 at HOU 39
  (2:50 - 4th) (Shotgun) D.Maye pass incomplete short right to J.Polk.
• 4th & 5 at HOU 39
  (2:43 - 4th) (Shotgun) D.Maye scrambles up the middle to HST 33 for 6 yards (M.Bryant).
• 1st & 10 at HOU 33
  (2:18 - 4th) (Shotgun) T.Jennings right guard to HST 30 for 3 yards (J.Hansen, N.Hewitt).
• 2nd & 7 at HOU 30
  (2:00 - 4th) Two-Minute Warning
• 2nd & 7 at HOU 30
  (1:55 - 4th) (Shotgun) T.Jennings up the middle to HST 26 for 4 yards (M.Edwards; J.Hansen).
• 3rd & 3 at HOU 26
  (1:23 - 4th) (Shotgun) D.Maye pass incomplete deep right to D.Douglas.
• 4th & 3 at HOU 26
  (1:15 - 4th) (Shotgun) D.Maye pass short right to D.Douglas to HST 20 for 6 yards (M.Bryant).
• 1st & 10 at HOU 20
  (0:50 - 4th) (Shotgun) T.Jennings up the middle to HST 21 for -1 yards (K.Davis, J.Hansen).
• 2nd & 11 at HOU 21
  (0:18 - 4th) (Shotgun) D.Maye pass incomplete short left. Thrown away from outside the pocket.
• 3rd & 11 at HOU 21
  (0:09 - 4th) (Shotgun) D.Maye pass short middle to J.Polk to HST 17 for 4 yards (N.Hewitt) [M.Edwards].
• (0:00 - 4th) END GAME

So 11 plays. Of those 11, 4 were runs by Jennings, 6 were passes by Maye, and 1 was a scramble by Maye on a passing play. So 7 of the 11 plays were passes, which indicated that they weren't "playing it safe" and "not risking injury". They put him in harm's way on the last drive, and even went for it on two fourth downs (converting both). But they didn't hustle - at no point in that drive did they hurry up. They huddled and took their time, showing no competitive urgency. If they had wanted to see Maye run the 2-minute drill, then run the 2-minute drill. If you want to play it safe and not risk injury, then don't have him throw 7 of 11 plays.

Crap or get off the toilet. Fish or cut bait. However you want to say it. But either let the kid play and TRY by giving him a legit 2-minute drill, but that would require hurrying up and getting a move on, or play it safe to keep him out of harm's way, but that would require not letting him throw so much.

They didn't TRY to score, but they DID put him in harm's way. The worst of all choices.

Yeah, I watched the end of the game.

Again, I have ZERO problem with them allowing him to try to drive the ball down the field, but not call TIMEOUT with ten seconds left to extend the game further.

I don't think it was the worst of all choices at all. I think it was probably correct.

 

[BaseballJones]

Yeah, I watched the end of the game.

Again, I have ZERO problem with them allowing him to try to drive the ball down the field, but not call TIMEOUT with ten seconds left to extend the game further.

I don't think it was the worst of all choices at all. I think it was probably correct.

When they got to that point, fine. But it was how they handled the entire possession that was frustrating. Either do or don't, but don't half-ass it and still risk your QB.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

When they got to that point, fine. But it was how they handled the entire possession that was frustrating. Either do or don't, but don't half-ass it and still risk your QB.

I think what was most frustrating was that it was an opportunity for the kid to put points on the board. It's the NFL, every play is a risk, so you can't play or coach scared. They're already down to the scoring zone, just let the kid try for one more. If he gets picked off, no one cares.

To me that was yet another example that Mayo has no idea what he is doing.

 

[mcpickl]

When they got to that point, fine. But it was how they handled the entire possession that was frustrating. Either do or don't, but don't half-ass it and still risk your QB.

I don't think they half-assed anything. I don't think they needed to run it like a two minute drill. I don't think they needed to be over protective of their QB on that drive. He was just running their offense like they would in the middle of a game. I don't see an issue with it.

 

[BaseballJones]

I think what was most frustrating was that it was an opportunity for the kid to put points on the board. It's the NFL, every play is a risk, so you can't play or coach scared. They're already down to the scoring zone, just let the kid try for one more. If he gets picked off, no one cares.

To me that was yet another example that Mayo has no idea what he is doing.

I agree.

My hope with Mayo is that he and Maye will grow together and by 2026 they're both excellent at what they do.

 

[BaseballJones]

I don't think they half-assed anything. I don't think they needed to run it like a two minute drill. I don't think they needed to be over protective of their QB on that drive. He was just running their offense like they would in the middle of a game. I don't see an issue with it.

Well it's obviously ok that we have different views on the matter. I didn't like how they handled it at all. And they didn't run it like they normally would in the middle of the game because they went for it on fourth down twice - something that wouldn't really happen in the second quarter.

 

[cshea]

I don't think they half-assed anything. I don't think they needed to run it like a two minute drill. I don't think they needed to be over protective of their QB on that drive. He was just running their offense like they would in the middle of a game. I don't see an issue with it.

He did the same exact thing against the Jets, let the clock run out when they were in the red zone.

I don’t get why people are up in arms. I think most NFL coaches handle it the same way.

 

[mcpickl]

Well it's obviously ok that we have different views on the matter. I didn't like how they handled it at all. And they didn't run it like they normally would in the middle of the game because they went for it on fourth down twice - something that wouldn't really happen in the second quarter.

Well yeah, you don't punt in a blowout.

They ran this same way exactly against the Jets three weeks ago. Just run the offense normally, No hurry ups. Went for it on 4th down three times. Called 12 passes to 4 runs. Got sacked to bring up 2nd and goal from the 12 with 15 seconds left, three timeouts in the bag, and they let the clock run out.

I don't remember much of an uproar then.

This is standard operating procedure in the NFL

 

[BaseballJones]

Well yeah, you don't punt in a blowout.

They ran this same way exactly against the Jets three weeks ago. Just run the offense normally, No hurry ups. Went for it on 4th down three times. Called 12 passes to 4 runs. Got sacked to bring up 2nd and goal from the 12 with 15 seconds left, three timeouts in the bag, and they let the clock run out.

I don't remember much of an uproar then.

This is standard operating procedure in the NFL

You're not trying to get Jacoby Brissett valuable game experience. You ARE with Maye, however.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Here's the issue with the end of the game: It was either (a) a valuable opportunity to get your brand new rookie QB some experience running the 2-minute drill against a live defense trying to stop them, but without the pressure of the game actually hanging in the balance, or (b) a time to say, ok, he's done enough for today, no need to risk injury. Either approach is fine, though many/most of us think (a) was the better play.

But they did neither. Here's the sequence of plays on that last drive:

• 1st & 10 at HOU 44
  (3:26 - 4th) (Shotgun) T.Jennings up the middle to HST 39 for 5 yards (M.Stewart).
• 2nd & 5 at HOU 39
  (2:55 - 4th) (Shotgun) D.Maye pass incomplete short left [K.Davis].
• 3rd & 5 at HOU 39
  (2:50 - 4th) (Shotgun) D.Maye pass incomplete short right to J.Polk.
• 4th & 5 at HOU 39
  (2:43 - 4th) (Shotgun) D.Maye scrambles up the middle to HST 33 for 6 yards (M.Bryant).
• 1st & 10 at HOU 33
  (2:18 - 4th) (Shotgun) T.Jennings right guard to HST 30 for 3 yards (J.Hansen, N.Hewitt).
• 2nd & 7 at HOU 30
  (2:00 - 4th) Two-Minute Warning
• 2nd & 7 at HOU 30
  (1:55 - 4th) (Shotgun) T.Jennings up the middle to HST 26 for 4 yards (M.Edwards; J.Hansen).
• 3rd & 3 at HOU 26
  (1:23 - 4th) (Shotgun) D.Maye pass incomplete deep right to D.Douglas.
• 4th & 3 at HOU 26
  (1:15 - 4th) (Shotgun) D.Maye pass short right to D.Douglas to HST 20 for 6 yards (M.Bryant).
• 1st & 10 at HOU 20
  (0:50 - 4th) (Shotgun) T.Jennings up the middle to HST 21 for -1 yards (K.Davis, J.Hansen).
• 2nd & 11 at HOU 21
  (0:18 - 4th) (Shotgun) D.Maye pass incomplete short left. Thrown away from outside the pocket.
• 3rd & 11 at HOU 21
  (0:09 - 4th) (Shotgun) D.Maye pass short middle to J.Polk to HST 17 for 4 yards (N.Hewitt) [M.Edwards].
• (0:00 - 4th) END GAME

So 11 plays. Of those 11, 4 were runs by Jennings, 6 were passes by Maye, and 1 was a scramble by Maye on a passing play. So 7 of the 11 plays were passes, which indicated that they weren't "playing it safe" and "not risking injury". They put him in harm's way on the last drive, and even went for it on two fourth downs (converting both). But they didn't hustle - at no point in that drive did they hurry up. They huddled and took their time, showing no competitive urgency. If they had wanted to see Maye run the 2-minute drill, then run the 2-minute drill. If you want to play it safe and not risk injury, then don't have him throw 7 of 11 plays.

Crap or get off the toilet. Fish or cut bait. However you want to say it. But either let the kid play and TRY by giving him a legit 2-minute drill, but that would require hurrying up and getting a move on, or play it safe to keep him out of harm's way, but that would require not letting him throw so much.

They didn't TRY to score, but they DID put him in harm's way. The worst of all choices.

You don't see a value in trying to get him some experience there? In the end he did have 2 shots to score or keep the ball moving.

 

[cshea]

You're not trying to get Jacoby Brissett valuable game experience. You ARE with Maye, however.

Maye was on the field for that drive.

 

[BaseballJones]

Maye was on the field for that drive.

Fair point. I forgot about that.

 

[BaseballJones]

You don't see a value in trying to get him some experience there? In the end he did have 2 shots to score or keep the ball moving.

I do see value in trying to get him some experience. Let him run the two-minute drill without the pressure of the result mattering for the outcome of the game.

Obviously people have different views on this, which is more than fine. I wish they had shown some urgency and let him get more of those reps.

 

[cshea]

I mean are 2 more plays in garbage time really all that meaningful in his development?

 

[BaseballJones]

I mean are 2 more plays in garbage time really all that meaningful in his development?

I'm not going to talk more about this. I've said what I think and why I think it and understand there's obviously room for disagreement.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

I don't really know where to put this, so I'll dump it here. I think some of the OL woes over the first 5 games were due to the lack of talent at QB where defenses didn't need to respect anything downfield (as we saw with Mac last year), allowing them to tee off on the offense. We saw more of the same in the first half (and specifically the first quarter), however after the first touchdown throw, the Texans needed to adjust a little to respect the downfield game.

I think we'll see some marked improvement in the offense and the OL as defenses start to adjust to respecting the passing game. The knock on effect will be a more stable run game and some clean pockets for Maye. I was really encouraged by that in the game yesterday.

Now whether AVP can take advantage of this or not is to be seen, but I think the offense is much more dynamic with Maye and will improve drastically over the season.

 

[Over Guapo Grande]

I don't really know where to put this, so I'll dump it here. I think some of the OL woes over the first 5 games were due to the lack of talent at QB where defenses didn't need to respect anything downfield (as we saw with Mac last year), allowing them to tee off on the offense. We saw more of the same in the first half (and specifically the first quarter), however after the first touchdown throw, the Texans needed to adjust a little to respect the downfield game.

I think we'll see some marked improvement in the offense and the OL as defenses start to adjust to respecting the passing game. The knock on effect will be a more stable run game and some clean pockets for Maye. I was really encouraged by that in the game yesterday.

Now whether AVP can take advantage of this or not is to be seen, but I think the offense is much more dynamic with Maye and will improve drastically over the season.

Evan Lazar made a similar point

Heading into Week 6, the Patriots were seeing a league-high rate of single-high safety coverages. The blueprint against New England's offense is to play man-to-man and blitz, forcing their line, quarterback, and receivers to win under pressure. To this point, the results have been mixed. On Sunday, Maye completed six passes for 110 yards, two touchdowns, and an interception against man coverage. The 9.2 yards per attempt was a season-high for the Patriots offense.
If they can continue to make the opposition pay for playing man coverage, defenses will have to defend the Maye-led offense differently, which will open up other things offensively.

 

[richgedman'sghost]

I'm not going to talk more about this. I've said what I think and why I think it and understand there's obviously room for disagreement.

Do you remember the valuable experience Brady got in 2000 running three plays against the Lions? I'm sure those three plays served him well and set up his future GOAT career. Gee, it was 2 maybe 3 plays at most. Maye is hopefully getting plenty of experience by the end of the year and we won't need these arguments.

 

[BaseballJones]

NE's defense...

1st drive: Hou shredded them, ripping right down the field but actually stopped them on 3rd down at the 5, forcing a FG attempt. No wait, flag for DPI - awful call. Two plays later, Houston punches it in.

2nd drive: Hou starts on a short field (NE's 45) and quickly zips down into NE's 16, where they face 3rd and 9. NE gets a stop on an incomplete pass, but another tissue-soft DPI call keeps the drive alive. Next play: TD.

3rd drive: Hou starts on a very short field (NE's 27) and only gets 5 yards before kicking a FG.

4th drive: Mixon rips off a 59-yard run (they had been held to 16 yards rushing on 10 attempts to that point), but two plays later, Marcus Jones comes up with the INT.

5th drive: 3 and out, forcing a punt

6th drive: Hou picks up one first down but is forced to punt

7th drive: Hou starts on a ridiculously short field (NE's 10, after the Maye fumble after the no-call on the face mask on Gibson) and two plays later scores a TD.

8th drive: Hou puts together a terrific drive starting at their own 20. NE finally gets a stop, forcing a FG.

9th drive: Hou starts on a short field (NE's 31, after the Hooper fumble), goes 3-and-out and has to kick a FG.

10th drive: Hou picks up one first down and then has to punt

11th drive: Hou starts on a short field (NE's 26, after the tipped INT), and Mixon runs 20 yards for the TD.

12th drive: Pierce shreds them for 54 yards and a TD.

13th drive: 3 and out, punts

So how to evaluate the Pats' defense?

- They got killed early, but actually made a couple of 3rd down stops, only for the refs to call baby soft DPI penalties to extend Houston drives. Instead of two FGs, Hou got two TDs, so instead of being down 6-0, it's 14-0.

- They got the ball five times on short fields (one the second drive of the game so I'm including it in that first point above), four on really short fields, following NE turnovers. On those four really short fields, they got two TDs and two FGs. Overall, not really a terrible job by the defense there, in those circumstances.

- NE gave up two long scoring drives (one TD, one FG).

- NE got 1 INT and forced 4 punts.

So in many ways it was bad. Really bad. But they also did ok in several instances, when put in really bad spots. Weird. Obviously overall, we'd have to give the D a failing grade, but they did better, I thought, than the final score indicated.

 

[CoffeeNerdness]

Just saw that Ridley has 9 catches on 27 targets, after being 0/8 today. I'm not sure that stat really means that much because you have no idea how many of those balls were catchable. Polk has also had a couple tough catches where he showed great hands that didn't count because he didn't get a foot down.

Long story short, way too early to write him off (which clearly you're not doing).

Right, he had the foot OB non-catch and the amazing catch(OB) on the sidelines v SF. People saying '10 of 24! he's a bust who can't catch' are working backwards to bolster a conclusion they're married to. Catch efficiency without looking at all the targets is like thinking RBI is the most important stat in baseball.

Burying Polk after 6 games is hysteria.

 

[NortheasternPJ]

I don't really know where to put this, so I'll dump it here. I think some of the OL woes over the first 5 games were due to the lack of talent at QB where defenses didn't need to respect anything downfield (as we saw with Mac last year), allowing them to tee off on the offense. We saw more of the same in the first half (and specifically the first quarter), however after the first touchdown throw, the Texans needed to adjust a little to respect the downfield game.

I think we'll see some marked improvement in the offense and the OL as defenses start to adjust to respecting the passing game. The knock on effect will be a more stable run game and some clean pockets for Maye. I was really encouraged by that in the game yesterday.

Now whether AVP can take advantage of this or not is to be seen, but I think the offense is much more dynamic with Maye and will improve drastically over the season.

I agree and several have made the same point here. Also he can run. We’ve seen it with Pats D’s for years, they rush the QB differently if you can scramble out of the pocket and run with it. If teams want to full out blitz and Maye can figure it out, he’ll so more QB runs and the edges now need to do more containment.

 

[Over Guapo Grande]

Right, he had the foot OB non-catch and the amazing catch(OB) on the sidelines v SF. People saying '10 of 24! he's a bust who can't catch' are working backwards to bolster a conclusion they're married to. Catch efficiency without looking at all the targets is like thinking RBI is the most important stat in baseball.

Burying Polk after 6 games is hysteria.

I made the point yesterday. The pass on 3rd down on the first possession was technically a target. It was also 20 feet over Polk's head. There have been more of those this year than the, admittedly, bad drops yesterday.

 

[NextBigThing8184]

Right, he had the foot OB non-catch and the amazing catch(OB) on the sidelines v SF. People saying '10 of 24! he's a bust who can't catch' are working backwards to bolster a conclusion they're married to. Catch efficiency without looking at all the targets is like thinking RBI is the most important stat in baseball.

Burying Polk after 6 games is hysteria.

Out of bounds “catches” aren’t catches though. Part of being a good WR is awareness and body control. It’s great he physically caught and held onto the ball, not really a high bar to set though if it doesn’t count because he isn’t in bounds

I agree that it’s hysteria to totally write him off entirely but certainly a guy with an already low ceiling due to mediocre measurables who can’t reliably catch (in bounds) isn’t an encouraging use of a high 2nd rounder. Those drops yesterday were absolutely brutal and his hands are his only plus attribute so if he can’t reliably catch…how is he ever going to justify that pick?

 

[CoffeeNerdness]

Out of bounds “catches” aren’t catches though. Part of being a good WR is awareness and body control. It’s great he physically caught and held onto the ball, not really a high bar to set though if it doesn’t count because he isn’t in bounds

I agree that it’s hysteria to totally write him off entirely but certainly a guy with an already low ceiling due to mediocre measurables who can’t reliably catch (in bounds) isn’t an encouraging use of a high 2nd rounder. Those drops yesterday were absolutely brutal and his hands are his only plus attribute so if he can’t reliably catch…how is he ever going to justify that pick?

Those are targets where he secured the ball which is suggested to point out how incomplete data like 10/24 targets is. People were literally saying "he can't catch!!!" based off of that stat.

 

[NextBigThing8184]

Those are targets where he secured the ball which is suggested to point out how incomplete data like 10/24 targets is. People were literally saying "he can't catch!!!" based off of that stat.

They’re not catches if he’s not securing them in bounds

Dropping a pass and failing to get your feet in bounds both speak to being unable to catch the ball.

I don’t think there’s anyone out there who would actually claim Polk will literally drop every pass that hits his hands. But catching such a low perentage of targets is bad and shouldn’t just be waved away by “well he caught it, just not in bounds”

I believe the statistic being cited is catch to target ratio and not drop percentage. Or am I wrong?

 

[JohnnyTheBone]

I wanted them to let Maye try for the garbage time TD. Alas, not a huge deal either way.

 

[CoffeeNerdness]

They’re not catches if he’s not securing them in bounds

No kidding. I guess if he asked the SF defender politely to stopped being underneath him I think it would have been a completion.

It does however demonstrate the ability to actually catch balls (as in physically grasp and hold the ball) in difficult circumstances which isn't reflected in a catches/target. Neither are poorly thrown balls in his general direction.

Per Fantasy Pros they have him at 23 targets with 12 deemed catchable and 2 drops. For comparison's sake Demario Douglas has 33 targets 26 of which were catchable.

 

[mcpickl]

You're not trying to get Jacoby Brissett valuable game experience. You ARE with Maye, however.

Huh?

 

[BaseballJones]

Huh?

The point I was trying to make was that you don’t need to get Brissett real game reps for his development but you do need to get them for Maye and I thought it was a missed opportunity, that’s all.

 

[mcpickl]

The point I was trying to make was that you don’t need to get Brissett real game reps for his development but you do need to get them for Maye and I thought it was a missed opportunity, that’s all.

But Maye was the QB in both cases.

 

[BaseballJones]

But Maye was the QB in both cases.

Which I acknowledged when someone else pointed that out too.

 

[Over Guapo Grande]

My dad was yelling at the TV (not unusual, but normally it is for when a _____- political ad comes on) - "Why are you running? Why aren't you calling time outs?
I was like "dad, they are down 20 with 2 minutes left. They aren't coming back. Let him run the normal offense."

Apparently a lot of people here are like my dad.

 

[dynomite]

It's interesting watching Patriots games the last two years, in that I'm just hoping to take something positive from their performance and not live and die with each play. That being said, if they were in the playoff hunt and the game was officiated that way I would have been pissed. It's nothing new of course, but it's frustrating as a fan as those calls you mentioned were huge swings in the game. Patriots most likely still don't win, but you never know how things can shake out without those gifts.

Right, it's a totally different experience as a fan.

As we've discussed in this forum many times in recent months, many of us remember many key plays and missed calls from regular season losses 2002-2019. I would be annoyed for DAYS after some of those.

Now? I basically didn't watch when the Texans were on offense, especially after the 1st quarter, and I set up a sukkah with a friend with the game playing on my phone on a chair and then went to my partner's 5-year-old nephew's soccer game instead of subjecting myself to the entire game.

Frankly -- and this is where I sound like Abe Simpson yelling at a cloud -- the tone of this "Goat" thread doesn't speak to me these days. I'd prefer a "3 up, 3 down" or "Game Observations" or "Good, Bad, Injured" like they do on Patriots Unfiltered Postgame podcasts.

They're bad. They're going to lose a lot. And some of the key players on the next Pats team aren't on the roster. I don't care whether they go 3-14 or 5-12 and I'm not sure how to assign blame when everything is this bad, I'm just interested to see how the players develop and what Maye looks like.

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

I haven't been thrilled watching Mayo learn on the job this year, either, but the idea that they will FIRE him after one season - even if the team goes 1-16 - seems crazy to me. It's not like this team was supposed to win 10 games and make the playoffs...or even win 7 games. If you thought they were going to win 7 games with this roster, I can understand your disappointment, but I don't know how anyone could have thought they'd come close to that. They're not good. They came INTO the off-season not good.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

I haven't been thrilled watching Mayo learn on the job this year, either, but the idea that they will FIRE him after one season - even if the team goes 1-16 - seems crazy to me. It's not like this team was supposed to win 10 games and make the playoffs...or even win 7 games. If you thought they were going to win 7 games with this roster, I can understand your disappointment, but I don't know how anyone could have thought they'd come close to that. They're not good. They came INTO the off-season not good.

If the team goes 1-16 he'll have to be fired, no coach can survive that kind of season and maintain the respect of his players. Hue Jackson was fired after going 1-31 and people were aghast he got another year after 0-16, no matter how bad the team is. There has to be some baseline expectation of competitiveness.

 

[Over Guapo Grande]

If the team goes 1-16 he'll have to be fired, no coach can survive that kind of season and maintain the respect of his players. Hue Jackson was fired after going 1-31 and people were aghast he got another year after 0-16, no matter how bad the team is. There has to be some baseline expectation of competitiveness.

I think that they may sneak a few more wins this year, but if they are at ... 4-22 a quarter of the way through next year under Mayo? Then I think I change would be made.

 

[dynomite]

If the team goes 1-16 he'll have to be fired, no coach can survive that kind of season and maintain the respect of his players. Hue Jackson was fired after going 1-31 and people were aghast he got another year after 0-16, no matter how bad the team is. There has to be some baseline expectation of competitiveness.

I'm less sure of that. You think Kraft would really fire Mayo after 1 season when he's been groomed for this role for years now?

Zac Taylor went 2-14 with the Bengals in '19 and 4-11-1 in '20 when Burrow got injured behind their terrible o-line, and made the Super Bowl in his 3rd year.

I think it would come down to what things look like in practice, meetings with Kraft, how Mayo operates behind the scenes, etc. Will say I'm not impressed by the early returns for AVP, even though -- again -- it's quite hard to tease apart blame when there are this many problems. Not much creativity on offense, and I trust Kurt Warner's film breakdowns. Lazar is more mixed on him I think.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

I'm less sure of that. You think Kraft would really fire Mayo after 1 season when he's been groomed for this role for years now?

Zac Taylor went 2-14 with the Bengals in '19 and 4-11-1 in '20 when Burrow got injured behind their terrible o-line, and made the Super Bowl in his 3rd year.

I will say I'm not impressed by the early returns for AVP, even though -- again -- it's quite hard to tease apart blame when there are this many problems. Not much creativity on offense, and I trust Kurt Warner's film breakdowns. Lazar is more mixed on him I think.

I honestly believe Kraft is completely checked out on the team now, that the only thing he cares about is making the Hall of Fame before he drops dead.

I personally don't think a coach can go 1-16 and keep the respect he'd need from his players to buy into his system. Zac Taylor went 2-14 before they drafted Burrow, it's a far different thing to come in without a franchise QB and go 2-14 (then get your QB and start improving) than to go 1-16 with your chosen QB on the team like Mayo has.

We'll see. Hopefully he won't have to see 1-16 play out.

 

[cshea]

One thing that has stuck with me was the video clip of Kraft giving Mayo the game ball in the lockeroom after the Cincy win. Kraft was addressing the team and at the very end he said something along the lines of "If you keep doing this you're going to raise my expectations..." and the whole thing got kind of cut off.

I found it interesting coming from him because it was a public acknowledgement that he had low expectations. Couple that with a few public references to how Bill only went 5-11 his first year and I don't think Mayo is in any immediate danger. Now, 1-16 losing by 3 scores every week could obviously change the calculus but I don't think Mayo's seat gets warm until a year from now.

 

[NomarsFool]

I think it's extremely unlikely the Pats actually manage to go 1-16. I think as long as the Patriots manage 3 wins, and barring some other unforeseen team drama, Mayo keeps his job. Of course, if the whole team walked out or there was some ridiculously embarassing thing that forces Kraft's hand - then, yes, he could be fired. But, barring something totally surprising, Thundercat will stay the course.

 

[NextBigThing8184]

I think it would take 3+ years of 6 or fewer wins before Mayo’s seat gets warm

He’s the chosen one. This wasn’t a guy Kraft interviewed and decided on after a long search. He was gifted the position.

For better or worse, we’re stuck with Mayo (and probably Wolf) for the foreseeable future

 

[chilidawg]

The only way he gets fired at the end of the season is if it's obvious that he's lost the team. If they're playing hard and showing some progress I don't think it matters how many wins they get.

 

[Cellar-Door]

The only way he gets fired at the end of the season is if it's obvious that he's lost the team. If they're playing hard and showing some progress I don't think it matters how many wins they get.

I think wins won't matter, but I do think there is another scenario where he gets fired.... if he's getting consistently ripped by National outlets and Kraft is being hit with "Kraft is wasting Maye with this Mayo hire", and the like, while an attractive option is available. Kraft's ego cuts both ways... he'll keep Mayo barring disaster in part because he thinks he's great at spotting talent. But... he really hates bad national press about him specifically, particularly if he doesn't make the HOF again with the new more lenient rules.

 

[lexrageorge]

I honestly believe Kraft is completely checked out on the team now, that the only thing he cares about is making the Hall of Fame before he drops dead.

I personally don't think a coach can go 1-16 and keep the respect he'd need from his players to buy into his system. Zac Taylor went 2-14 before they drafted Burrow, it's a far different thing to come in without a franchise QB and go 2-14 (then get your QB and start improving) than to go 1-16 with your chosen QB on the team like Mayo has.

We'll see. Hopefully he won't have to see 1-16 play out.

Jonathan Kraft is anything but checked out on the team from all accounts.

I am generally not a fan of firing coaches after one season, but sometimes it does happen. If Mayo were to go 1-16 this season, he may survive, but with a very short 5-6 game leash in 2025. That’s not ideal either, but teams are much less afraid to make in season coaching changes these days.

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

If the team goes 1-16 he'll have to be fired, no coach can survive that kind of season and maintain the respect of his players. Hue Jackson was fired after going 1-31 and people were aghast he got another year after 0-16, no matter how bad the team is. There has to be some baseline expectation of competitiveness.

I REALLY think you're wrong about this, especially given the total wasteland BB and his previous draft classes and FA signings left Mayo with. No one is saying he's gotten off to a great start, and Wolfe's off-season hasn't been good at all - especially with the criminally negligent approach to OT - but IMO there's just no way you or I or Robert Kraft should have or could have fairly expected the team to be remotely good. 1-16 is HORRENDOUS, obviously, but the idea that Mayo would "have to be fired" in this context seems like a stretch.

 

[NextBigThing8184]

I REALLY think you're wrong about this, especially given the total wasteland BB and his previous draft classes and FA signings left Mayo with. No one is saying he's gotten off to a great start, and Wolfe's off-season hasn't been good at all - especially with the criminally negligent approach to OT - but IMO there's just no way you or I or Robert Kraft should have or could have fairly expected the team to be remotely good. 1-16 is HORRENDOUS, obviously, but the idea that Mayo would "have to be fired" in this context seems like a stretch.

The “total wasteland” of draft classes which yielded Gonzalez, White, Douglas, Sow, Stevenson, Barmore, Dugger, Jennings, Uche and Onwenu (plus Boutte and Baringer)

Their drafting hasn’t been great but people act as if every draft was a total disaster. The net over the last 5 BB drafts is just under average in terms of quality players. Obviously 2022 looks awful but every team has bad drafts and bad stretches

The total wasteland of drafting yielded a bunch of guys Wolf had no problems paying fairly decent money to retain.

 

[Garshaparra]

The “total wasteland” of draft classes which yielded Gonzalez, White, Douglas, Sow, Stevenson, Barmore, Dugger, Jennings, Uche and Onwenu (plus Boutte and Baringer)

Must this always be recited - the wasteland is on the offensive side of the ball:

- Pop has been great, full stop. Total steal. He's not an every-down guy, as they've had to play extra TEs so often, but he's obviously their best slot WR.
- Sow has been booted from the starting lineup in favor of off-the-street guards. Injuries and inconsistent play.
- Onwenu is an absolute steal in the 6th round of 2020. Better at guard than tackle, he's mostly delivered and gotten paid.
- Boutte DNP most of last year, and only this week began to show the skills that made many consider him a major sleeper.
- Stevenson has had flashes as the lead back, but between injuries and drops, I don't think he'd be considered a top 20 RB (I looked it up - nfl.com ranked him 22nd, and he didn't make other top 20 lists).

...and thus, that would be 3 offensive starters garnered in BB's last 5 years of drafts (2019-2023), none at premium positions (no QB, X/Y WR, TE1, or OT), leading the team to horrendous offensive play for the last 3 seasons. I think that's fair to call that a wasteland, and it's why he got fired.