That was then: Celebrating what was

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Oct 1, 2015
23,160
Recall that blowout down in Miami when the Pats noted that the Nick Saban-coached Dolphins players seemed to know what was coming nearly every play.

Sometimes the scouts and coaches just get it right.
Right. I was just talking about the respective narratives though.
 

BigSoxFan

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May 31, 2007
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The article gives more context than the quoted tweet. The tl;dr version is that Edelman was upset when the Pats signed Amendola, as Julian had hoped to take over Welker's role once Welker left for Denver. He was UFA and considered signing with the Giants, but decided to stay to play with Brady.
The Patriots and Celtics both dodged huge bullets by Edelman, Hightower, McCourty, and Smart opting to return when they could and should have been poached by others.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Oct 1, 2015
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Edelman came into the league in 2009. Gronkowski came into the league in 2010.

The Pats won three Super Bowls during their time with the Pats, and lost two SB games.

2011 Pats - Edelman was a special teams player who caught 4 passes. Way down on the depth chart. Gronk was a monster already, but was hobbled in the SB by a badly injured ankle. Pats lose 21-17.

2014 Pats - Edelman was a star in the making - 92 catches for 972 yards. Gronk was an even bigger star. Both had big roles in the SB victory over Seattle. Pats win 28-24.

2016 Pats - Gronk is injured and misses the playoff run. Bennett takes his place. Edelman has a huge season and makes one of the greatest catches in SB history against the Falcons in the comeback win. Pats win 34-28.

2017 Pats - Edelman is out for the year following a torn ACL. Gronk has another tremendous season but the Pats can't pull off the SB win. Pats lose 41-33.

2018 Pats - Edelman is back and has a lesser-than-normal season (still good) but elevates his game in the SB, winning MVP. Gronk also has a bit of a down year but makes one of the biggest plays of the SB that year. Pats win 13-3.

When both guys were playing, the Pats were 2-1 in those five SBs. When Edelman played but Gronk didn't, the Pats were 1-0. When Gronk played but Edelman didn't, the Pats were 0-1. Who was more important to the Pats?
 

streeter88

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Edelman came into the league in 2009. Gronkowski came into the league in 2010.

The Pats won three Super Bowls during their time with the Pats, and lost two SB games.

….

When both guys were playing, the Pats were 2-1 in those five SBs. When Edelman played but Gronk didn't, the Pats were 1-0. When Gronk played but Edelman didn't, the Pats were 0-1. Who was more important to the Pats?
If Malcolm Butler had played in that Super Bowl, it would be even.
 

brandonchristensen

Loves Aaron Judge
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Feb 4, 2012
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Absolutely insane what’s happened since then. Spoiled to the point where it’s hard to appreciate it as much as I used to.

Definitely a lot more fun to follow than before.
 

riboflav

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Jan 20, 2006
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Our kids have no idea. I do my best to teach the history of our beloved franchises to my son. But all he knows is winning and so when for example the Celtics lose last night he’s like wtf? Maybe they’re no good, Dad.
 

lexrageorge

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BuellMiller

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Mar 25, 2015
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And before the teams would win a championship within 10ish years, each of the three non-Patriots teams would go through at least 2 more coaches after Pitino/Keenan/Jimy, before the coach/manager who would ultimately win that next championship.
 

cornwalls@6

Less observant than others
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Apr 23, 2010
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To think surrounding Bill Belichick in that photo were Rick Pitino, Mike Keenan, and Jimy Williams. At least Keenan had a respectable NHL coaching career when all was said and done. And the GM's at the time were Pitino (soon to be Chris Wallace), Harry Sinden (soon to be Mike O'Connell), and Dan Duquette.
Though, to be fair, the Dukes fingerprints were, if not all over, prominently featured on 2004.
 

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
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Apr 12, 2005
41,099
Our kids have no idea. I do my best to teach the history of our beloved franchises to my son. But all he knows is winning and so when for example the Celtics lose last night he’s like wtf? Maybe they’re no good, Dad.
My 14 year old thinks every Celtic that misses a shot "fucking sucks."
 

Ralphwiggum

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Jun 27, 2012
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Man that is a tough read. I'm torn, on the one hand the fact that fans like me watch give these guys opportunities to earn a living playing football, and in some cases some of them probably don't have many (any) better options. On the other hand the game seems to churn through people at such an alarming rate that it kind of makes me think the whole thing should be shut down, or at least I shouldn't be watching. What a brutal sport.
 

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
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Sep 27, 2016
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To make an NFL roster, you have to be not just genetically gifted but also incredibly hardworking and disciplined, have to be coachable and team-oriented, have to be willing to put aside many things in order to focus on your one goal, have to keep your temper (except in 6-second bursts) and build camaraderie. Most NFL players have the tools to be successful in most walks of life, if they were to find similar motivation in things other than hitting people for a living.

So I blame education, specifically the lack of it. Many of them were failed by every educator they've had in their lives except for a few football coaches. Many of them come from places where nobody has much money and wouldn't know what to do with it if they did. And they work for the most successful sports enterprise on the planet. I'm glad that the NFL now provides some basic classes on personal financial management to their players, and there are retirement benefits and other things to keep former NFL players from being homeless and descending to mental illness and the many other ills common to poverty. But the article just left me screaming for more. Like, shit, *I* know enough to teach these guys how to take care of their windfall career; half of SoSH does. "let me go teach some classes, take some of them under my wing, something!" was just rattling around my brain. These guys, with manifest tools for success, find themselves lacking just a key piece or two in between "use their NFL career as a foundation for lifelong success and prosperity", and "go broke and be unable to hold down a job or even enjoy the rest of their life much".

It's such a tragedy. Maybe one of these days soon, I'll try to network my way to the Steelers here and do something about it. Because god knows their employers don't much care; as soon as they're gone from the roster, they're of no further use to them. Chew 'em up and spit 'em out.
 

Import78

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May 29, 2007
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To make an NFL roster, you have to be not just genetically gifted but also incredibly hardworking and disciplined, have to be coachable and team-oriented, have to be willing to put aside many things in order to focus on your one goal, have to keep your temper (except in 6-second bursts) and build camaraderie. Most NFL players have the tools to be successful in most walks of life, if they were to find similar motivation in things other than hitting people for a living.

So I blame education, specifically the lack of it. Many of them were failed by every educator they've had in their lives except for a few football coaches. Many of them come from places where nobody has much money and wouldn't know what to do with it if they did. And they work for the most successful sports enterprise on the planet. I'm glad that the NFL now provides some basic classes on personal financial management to their players, and there are retirement benefits and other things to keep former NFL players from being homeless and descending to mental illness and the many other ills common to poverty. But the article just left me screaming for more. Like, shit, *I* know enough to teach these guys how to take care of their windfall career; half of SoSH does. "let me go teach some classes, take some of them under my wing, something!" was just rattling around my brain. These guys, with manifest tools for success, find themselves lacking just a key piece or two in between "use their NFL career as a foundation for lifelong success and prosperity", and "go broke and be unable to hold down a job or even enjoy the rest of their life much".

It's such a tragedy. Maybe one of these days soon, I'll try to network my way to the Steelers here and do something about it. Because god knows their employers don't much care; as soon as they're gone from the roster, they're of no further use to them. Chew 'em up and spit 'em out.
Agree with all of this and had some of those same thoughts. I think part of the trouble is they do this education with rookies. When I was 21-23 if you had given me an NFL salary and then tried to teach me how to manage money I wouldn't have retained any of it. I was still bullet proof and (assuming I made the NFL) would still be way to cocky to believe that the money train would run out for me. This is especially true since I was pretty poor growing up and to have all that at once would have blown my mind.

In a perfect world you could do some of this stuff as people are ending careers, or maybe a couple of years before that. Of course no one knows when that is and these guys are probably getting hit up by friends/family/scammers every day of the of year anyway. Maybe a good agent would look out for you this way? I have no idea. I think an understanding of basic personal finance is rare in most walks of life, its just that most people don't have the resources to overextend themselves the way an NFL player might.
 
Aug 9, 2015
1,734
To me that 45 yarder to tie is the greatest kick in NFL history given the circumstances and weather. How the hell it went through, I'll never know.

Quite the way of closing out the old dump.
Are we going to go 0-for snow this playoffs? Seems like it. That’s a real bummer. Football belongs in that environment.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
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Jul 15, 2005
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Shit, I was 20 and a half then and I'm 41 and a half now. So, more than half my life.

Agree SJH, and I think the 2nd best might have been the winner against the Titans in the 2003 divisional.
 

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
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Sep 27, 2016
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Had no idea Vinatieri had "missed 4 of his last 5 field goal attempts". He was 1 for 1 at that point in the game.

*looks it up* OK it also isn't true, what it says on the chyron. Vinatieri was 1 for 1 that game so far (converted a 27-yarder midway through the 3rd), was 1/1 in Game 16 vs Carolina (19-yarder in the 1st), was 2/2 in Game 15 vs Miami (from 32 and 27, both in the 2Q), and was 4/4 in Game 14 vs Buffalo. In his career-to-date, he was 6-for-9 in the postseason, 1996-1998. I have no idea what the hell they're talking about with that "missed 4 of his last 5", and presumably neither does Adam.

That said, Janikowski had kicked a 45-yarder in the same conditions to make it 13-3 earlier. It just wasn't a last-minute FG to tie the game.
 

Ralphwiggum

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Man, I was still technically in my 20s when that kick went through the uprights, I turned 50 last summer. Fucking hell.

Actually kind of stunning how different my life is now compared to then, even taking into account the passage of 21 years.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
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Jul 15, 2005
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Hingham, MA
Had no idea Vinatieri had "missed 4 of his last 5 field goal attempts". He was 1 for 1 at that point in the game.

*looks it up* OK it also isn't true, what it says on the chyron. Vinatieri was 1 for 1 that game so far (converted a 27-yarder midway through the 3rd), was 1/1 in Game 16 vs Carolina (19-yarder in the 1st), was 2/2 in Game 15 vs Miami (from 32 and 27, both in the 2Q), and was 4/4 in Game 14 vs Buffalo. In his career-to-date, he was 6-for-9 in the postseason, 1996-1998. I have no idea what the hell they're talking about with that "missed 4 of his last 5", and presumably neither does Adam.

That said, Janikowski had kicked a 45-yarder in the same conditions to make it 13-3 earlier. It just wasn't a last-minute FG to tie the game.
The graphic is cut off. It said over 40 yards.

Click here

View: https://youtu.be/UkSi2JK98pM?t=7559
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

Throw Momma From the Train
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May 20, 2003
35,231
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Shit, I was 20 and a half then and I'm 41 and a half now. So, more than half my life.

Agree SJH, and I think the 2nd best might have been the winner against the Titans in the 2003 divisional.
I was 30 and we had moved to Maine for "a couple of years" six months prior.

I'm 51 now, still in Maine and never leaving. And since moving to Maine the Boston teams have won 12 championships and made 19 Finals.

Absolutely crazy.
 

RSN Diaspora

molests goats for comedy
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Jul 29, 2005
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Man, I was still technically in my 20s when that kick went through the uprights, I turned 50 last summer. Fucking hell.

Actually kind of stunning how different my life is now compared to then, even taking into account the passage of 21 years.
I'm 45. I was at a dive bar/pool hall in a DC neighborhood that is now way too snooty for such a thing (side note: I loved that spot, but of course it's a condo building now). When Brady "fumbled" I went to go close out my tab, sure that replay was going to change nothing. A couple weeks later I was hosting a Super Bowl party where I was just gonna be happy to beat the spread. When Vinatieri's kick sailed through, it was magic of course, but as I look back on it, I almost wonder if the winning kick over Carolina was an even bigger deal since it washed away the pain of the 2003 ALCS.
 

8slim

has trust issues
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Looked like it was going to drift right at first. Just an incredible kick.

When the refs first called fumble on the tuck, I thought to myself that a great, fun, utterly surprising season had just ended. I wasn't even mad, just sad to have it end. To think what transpired from there still seems unreal.
 

soxhop411

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DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
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Had no idea Vinatieri had "missed 4 of his last 5 field goal attempts". He was 1 for 1 at that point in the game.

*looks it up* OK it also isn't true, what it says on the chyron. Vinatieri was 1 for 1 that game so far (converted a 27-yarder midway through the 3rd), was 1/1 in Game 16 vs Carolina (19-yarder in the 1st), was 2/2 in Game 15 vs Miami (from 32 and 27, both in the 2Q), and was 4/4 in Game 14 vs Buffalo. In his career-to-date, he was 6-for-9 in the postseason, 1996-1998. I have no idea what the hell they're talking about with that "missed 4 of his last 5", and presumably neither does Adam.

That said, Janikowski had kicked a 45-yarder in the same conditions to make it 13-3 earlier. It just wasn't a last-minute FG to tie the game.

The graphic is cut off. It said over 40 yards.

Yeah--listen to the audio. Gumbel says "that's Vinatieri's luck from this distance of late"
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
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Jul 15, 2005
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Looked like it was going to drift right at first. Just an incredible kick.

When the refs first called fumble on the tuck, I thought to myself that a great, fun, utterly surprising season had just ended. I wasn't even mad, just sad to have it end. To think what transpired from there still seems unreal.
I remember having the thought - I think at halftime down 7-0, or maybe once it became a double digit spread - "the season can't end like this".
 

lexrageorge

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Jul 31, 2007
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Given the conditions and distance, I had zero expectation of Adam making that tying kick. Even the winning kick was no gimme given the conditions. Credit also to Paxton for the snap and to whomever was the holder.
 

BigSoxFan

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May 31, 2007
46,276
You simply can't beat the run they had that season. Beating the Raiders on a ridiculous kick, beating the heavy favorite Steelers in their own house, and THEN beating even the "Greatest Show on Turf".
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
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Dec 16, 2010
52,193
Given the conditions and distance, I had zero expectation of Adam making that tying kick. Even the winning kick was no gimme given the conditions. Credit also to Paxton for the snap and to whomever was the holder.
Ken Walter.
 

8slim

has trust issues
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Nov 6, 2001
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I remember having the thought - I think at halftime down 7-0, or maybe once it became a double digit spread - "the season can't end like this".
I just had no expectations for that season. 5-11 the year before, picked for last in the division again, a clearly waning Bledsoe at the helm, lots of old guys brought in for the D, etc.

The loss in that Sunday night game to the Rams was when I thought that maybe we had something. But after falling into the bye, I was OK with losing to a good Raiders team in a snow storm.
 

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
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Apr 12, 2005
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I was there, right around the 45 yard line. I've told the story too many times to count around here, but I knew the Tuck Rule, so when Brady fumbled and everyone headed to the stairs, I stayed in my seat screaming like a lunatic from about the 20th row "SOMEONE TELL BELICHICK TO REVIEW IT. IT"S THE FUCKING TUCK RULE." It felt like an hour before they announced in the stadium that the play was under review (it wasn't), or nobody heard it the first time, but when they did, everyone stayed where they were, mostly in the aisles at that point. When they overturned it, as superstitious Boston fans are want to do, everyone still stayed where they were, for the rest of the game. Someone got a pic of me sitting in basically an empty bleacher section, with 8 inches of snow before the game ended. Have to find it.

Was at that game (and hundreds of others over the years) with 3 guys, each of whom subsequently ended up in each other's wedding parties. To this day, we still say that day was the best day of our lives from the tailgate to the post game celebrations in the parking lot, outside of having our kids. Our wives do not like that.

I hadn't missed a Pats home game prior to that one since 1996. Saw every Brady playoff game he ever played in Foxboro, saw every game Gronk ever played as a Patriot. Those same 3 guys and I now only attend a couple games per year together, but nothing will ever top that one.
 

8slim

has trust issues
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Nov 6, 2001
23,933
Unreal America
I was there, right around the 45 yard line. I've told the story too many times to count around here, but I knew the Tuck Rule, so when Brady fumbled and everyone headed to the stairs, I stayed in my seat screaming like a lunatic from about the 20th row "SOMEONE TELL BELICHICK TO REVIEW IT. IT"S THE FUCKING TUCK RULE." It felt like an hour before they announced in the stadium that the play was under review (it wasn't), or nobody heard it the first time, but when they did, everyone stayed where they were, mostly in the aisles at that point. When they overturned it, as superstitious Boston fans are want to do, everyone still stayed where they were, for the rest of the game. Someone got a pic of me sitting in basically an empty bleacher section, with 8 inches of snow before the game ended. Have to find it.

Was at that game (and hundreds of others over the years) with 3 guys, each of whom subsequently ended up in each other's wedding parties. To this day, we still say that day was the best day of our lives from the tailgate to the post game celebrations in the parking lot, outside of having our kids. Our wives do not like that.

I hadn't missed a Pats home game prior to that one since 1996. Saw every Brady playoff game he ever played in Foxboro, saw every game Gronk ever played as a Patriot. Those same 3 guys and I now only attend a couple games per year together, but nothing will ever top that one.
Man, that's great. I was supposed to go (with a friend who's a Raiders fan, in fact), but the heavier snow hitting CT first made travel a bear. So the tickets went to someone local and I ended up watching it on TV.

I'll never, ever, ever tire of reminiscing about that 2001-2004 era in particular. As someone who grew up in Foxboro, I still sometimes can't fathom all that success happened to us.
 

Al Zarilla

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Dec 8, 2005
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San Andreas Fault
.

That said, Janikowski had kicked a 45-yarder in the same conditions to make it 13-3 earlier. It just wasn't a last-minute FG to tie the game.
The snow and wind conditions were not the same throughout the game. I think when Adam made his kick both were at their worst. Like as soon as he hits a ball it disappears in the snow and you have to rely on the announcer to tell you whether it was good or not. Best kick ever.
 
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Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
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Dec 12, 2007
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I’ve watched that kick on the TV shot a thousand times. I look my damndest to see it go though, and never have. Can see the first 15 yards or so, and then it’s engulfed by snow.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Oct 1, 2015
23,160
If you rewatch it, you'll see that he doesn't get much elevation on it at all. It looks, coming off the foot, like it's just going to knuckle and die at about the goal line, but somehow it goes in. Easily the best kick of all time - even better than Tucker's 66 yard game winner vs. Detroit (which was amazing, obviously). Just the conditions and the stakes...Adam's kick is #1 all time.
 

jmcc5400

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Sep 29, 2000
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Another day in January, another anniversary of a scintillating win. Happy 4 year anniversary of Dee Ford and three OT 3rd and 10s converted!