That’s my quarterback!……or is he?

What is your current take on the Pats’ QB situation heading into 2023?

  • Rough year but Mac is still my guy for 2023

    Votes: 24 6.9%
  • Team Zappe all the way!

    Votes: 14 4.0%
  • Let Mac and Zappe fight it out in camp (not literally) and best man wins

    Votes: 75 21.4%
  • The 2023 QB isn’t currently on the roster

    Votes: 115 32.9%
  • Not sure - I need to see Mac with better coaching, OL, and players

    Votes: 118 33.7%
  • Knibb High Football Rules!

    Votes: 4 1.1%

  • Total voters
    350

DJnVa

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Dec 16, 2010
52,196
I would assume that BB recognizes the gigantic fuck-up regarding the coaching staff and fixes it in the off-season with BoB or someone. If he does, I'm 100% willing to see Mac Jones with that setup.

If we roll out this same unit next year...
 

radsoxfan

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Aug 9, 2009
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The odd thing about Mac this year is that his "strengths" have not shown up AT ALL.

He was supposed to have mediocre arm talent (that's still showing up) but make up for it with above average accuracy, processing, and football IQ. Instead, he can't process at all and makes ton of inaccurate throws.

Hard to believe this is the same guy from Alabama or the first 10 games of his rookie year. The best hope is that Patricia/Judge are just so terrible they've ruined any chance to evaluate the guy fairly.
 

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
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Apr 12, 2005
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I asked about Minshew earlier in the season. I know they lost and he threw a costly pick but he also threw for 355 yards and they put up 34 points at Dallas.

He’s better than Mac.
He also has the best offensive line in football, a great offensive coaching group, and oh, AJ Brown, Davonte Smith, Dallas Goedert and Miles Sanders. And the Dallas pass defense is bad.

Minshew had a comparable group around him in 2020 in Jacksonville as the Pats now. They went 1-7 when he started.
 

luckiestman

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Jul 15, 2005
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I asked about Minshew earlier in the season. I know they lost and he threw a costly pick but he also threw for 355 yards and they put up 34 points at Dallas.
In a dome with, if not the best, one of the best lines in the league. I like Minshew too but I don’t know how good he is.
 

ragnarok725

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I don't mind letting Mac compete for the job next year. But I want to see another first or second round QB, ideally one with more tools and a lot more upside than Mac has.

I'd draft a QB highly every other year until they hit. Let them compete, back up, earn the position, whatever. But I'm not waiting another year before buying another lottery ticket.
 

Eddie Jurak

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This must be one of those games where the stats don’t line up with the on field performance. Because he was 21-33 (63.6%), 240 yds, 2 td, 0 int, which isn’t a monster game obviously (not close), but which isn’t a bad statistical game at all. Still haven’t watched the game yet but from all the commentary here, it sounds like Mac was absolutely dreadful.
He was like 4-7 for 20 yards or something absurd like that at the half. He was OK but got some very good breaks in the second half. I still find it hard to get a read on him because the rest of the offise is such a mess.

48 of the yards came here, which is... not how it was drawn up.
View: https://twitter.com/ericsports/status/1606755610737139712?s=20&t=iP2xPZLjGxX2pHrSx9hFcA
 

8slim

has trust issues
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This must be one of those games where the stats don’t line up with the on field performance. Because he was 21-33 (63.6%), 240 yds, 2 td, 0 int, which isn’t a monster game obviously (not close), but which isn’t a bad statistical game at all. Still haven’t watched the game yet but from all the commentary here, it sounds like Mac was absolutely dreadful.
He was lousy in the first half. Granted the WRs sucked and his OL did him no favors, but he was also lousy. He made a few more plays in the second half. But honestly basic QB stats are largely useless in todays NFL. Unless a guy is notably awful (say, 6-30) or notably great (say, 34-40) then everything else in between tells you next to nothing about the day a QB actually had. I continue to strongly believe that there aren’t stats that tell the full story of QB play. There’s too many moving pieces.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Apr 12, 2005
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He was like 4-7 for 20 yards or something absurd like that at the half. He was OK but got some very good breaks in the second half. I still find it hard to get a read on him because the rest of the offise is such a mess.

48 of the yards came here, which is... not how it was drawn up.
View: https://twitter.com/ericsports/status/1606755610737139712?s=20&t=iP2xPZLjGxX2pHrSx9hFcA
He put the ball on a receivers hands on that play. One could also argue Washington probably should have caught it. But, if you eliminate that play, and then give Mac the yards that his receivers dropped, particularly Thorntons, you still have comparable numbers.

QB stats are a mess. Burrow should have had about 4 picks today, but only had one. Instead, his numbers look great. On the whole, I would argue Macs stats this season have been depressed more by bad receiver play, than they've been enhanced by receivers making plays, although I guess others disagree.
 

Marciano490

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Nov 4, 2007
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It’s hard to be lovable when you’re losing, but that’s a real bullshit move diving at some dude’s legs 10 yards behind the play.
 

E5 Yaz

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Meh. Stuff like this is usually allowed to slide
Even if it does go unpunished, it's an example of a quarterback who doesn't seem to have his head in the game -- taking out a guy 5-10 yards away from the ball for no conceivable reason

edit ... that's the type of move that can get a Patriots player injured in retribution
 

BigSoxFan

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LoLsapien

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Would we trade Mac for Zach Wilson, straight up? I haven't watched Wilson play a single game but it's not often you have the opportunity to actually do a QB re-draft!
 

SMU_Sox

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Jul 20, 2009
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Zach Wilson could be had for cheap. I want no part of him or Sam Darnold or the Gardner. These guys aren’t it.
 

NoXInNixon

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Dirty as hell play. Incredibly hard to stop on a dime like that.

Mac is a loser in every sense of the word. Can’t wait for when he’s off this team.
I wonder how much of that was overcompensation for the criticism he got for his poor attempt at tackling on the final play last week.
 

BigSoxFan

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I wonder how much of that was overcompensation for the criticism he got for his poor attempt at tackling on the final play last week.
Don’t think any. It was a split second play that was entirely based on instinct. I think his instinct is to play dirty. He’s done stuff like this before. He mentally can’t handle the job and it’s clear as day every game he plays.
 

Ralphwiggum

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Cross posting from the other thread, but I’m done with this guy. It’s one thing to not have the tools to be an NFL QB, which I think is pretty clear at this point, but he’s also a child, an asshole, and a dirty player. I don’t want him as the QB of this team next year.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
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Dec 16, 2010
52,196
Dirty as hell play. Incredibly hard to stop on a dime like that.

Mac is a loser in every sense of the word. Can’t wait for when he’s off this team.
But also WHY DIDN'T HE TRIP CHANDLER JONES LAST WEEK!!!

I'LL HANG UP AND LISTEN!
 

Cellar-Door

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But also WHY DIDN'T HE TRIP CHANDLER JONES LAST WEEK!!!

I'LL HANG UP AND LISTEN!
I think there is a huge difference between... Should he tackle a player with the ball and... Hey let me try to blow out a player's knee away from the play.

Mac has a long history of being a dirty little shit.
 

EricFeczko

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He also has the best offensive line in football, a great offensive coaching group, and oh, AJ Brown, Davonte Smith, Dallas Goedert and Miles Sanders. And the Dallas pass defense is bad.

Minshew had a comparable group around him in 2020 in Jacksonville as the Pats now. They went 1-7 when he started.
While I agree that kicking the tires on 26-year old Gardner Minshew seems like a terrible idea; particularly for the bolded, but also because Minshew has never been very good, the Dallas pass defense is a top 10 squad this year.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2022/opp.htm
 

Ralphwiggum

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But also WHY DIDN'T HE TRIP CHANDLER JONES LAST WEEK!!!

I'LL HANG UP AND LISTEN!
I mean, one guy had the ball and was running for the game winning TD and Jones had the only shot at stopping him, the other was trailing the play and Jones dove at his legs for no known reason. They aren’t remotely the same situations.

Edit: Or what @Cellar-Door said. Mac has more than one cheap/dirty play under his belt in less than two years in the league. He seems like a dickhead.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
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Dec 16, 2010
52,196
I mean, one guy had the ball and was running for the game winning TD and Jones had the only shot at stopping him, the other was trailing the play and Jones dove at his legs for no known reason. They aren’t remotely the same situations.

Edit: Or what @Cellar-Door said. Mac has more than one cheap/dirty play under his belt in less than two years in the league. He seems like a dickhead.
Hey, he's not a real cheap shot artist unless he does it when it matters.
 

Ralphwiggum

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Hey, he's not a real cheap shot artist unless he does it when it matters.
First off, I’m not bagging on Mac for not tackling Chandler Jones. He had no chance on that play given Chandler’s momentum and the size differential. Second, I am in no way suggesting he should have tripped him or swept the leg or whatever.

Your entire argument is talk radio strawman bullshit. The dude dove at the legs of a guy way behind the play because he’s a petulant child who cannot contain his emotions on the field when shit isn’t going his way. The one play has absolutely nothing to do with the other. That there are some people in the universe who wanted him to trip Chandler Jones does not change the fact that the play yesterday was dirty as shit.

He also got a 15 yard penalty on the Rham fumble play for acting like a shithead. He’s a child and a moron.
 

johnmd20

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First off, I’m not bagging on Mac for not tackling Chandler Jones. He had no chance on that play given Chandler’s momentum and the size differential. Second, I am in no way suggesting he should have tripped him or swept the leg or whatever.

Your entire argument is talk radio strawman bullshit. The dude dove at the legs of a guy way behind the play because he’s a petulant child who cannot contain his emotions on the field when shit isn’t going his way. The one play has absolutely nothing to do with the other. That there are some people in the universe who wanted him to trip Chandler Jones does not change the fact that the play yesterday was dirty as shit.

He also got a 15 yard penalty on the Rham fumble play for acting like a shithead. He’s a child and a moron.
He dove at the front of his legs. That's not a cheap shot. It's a block you see in the NFL. Mac doesn't try to chase down the play and people complain he isn't trying. Then he tries and he's a cheap shot artist.

"Petulant child" "Moron". Lol. You really do sit on a truly impressive throne of judgement. I wonder what that must feel like, to be perfect. If only we could all be like you.
 

Ralphwiggum

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He dove at the front of his legs. That's not a cheap shot. It's a block you see in the NFL. Mac doesn't try to chase down the play and people complain he isn't trying. Then he tries and he's a cheap shot artist.

"Petulant child" "Moron". Lol. You really do sit on a truly impressive throne of judgement. I wonder what that must feel like, to be perfect. If only we could all be like you.
Both Mac and the guy he took out were hopelessly out of the play. Diving at his legs there is bullshit.

The rest of your post sucks, but hey, you do you.
 

E5 Yaz

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Both Mac and the guy he took out were hopelessly out of the play. Diving at his legs there is bullshit.
Yeah, that's the thing. The guy Mac took out had no role remaining in the play. It's not like he was diving at the ball carrier
 

rodderick

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I'd be way more lenient on that play by Mac were it not for the Brian Burns stuff last year. I think that takes it from "yeah, a little cheap but not really an injury risk" to "I think he was frustrated and took it out on the guy to fuck him up".
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
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Sep 9, 2008
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The Mac play is its own thing. It should be discussed or not on its merits.

The fact that Julian Edelman mentioned that he thought Mac should have tripped Chandler, and it momentarily made some of us say “huh” and discuss it for a moment (half of which was kind of a rules discussion) after a rough loss is a totally different thing. It’s a red herring to the discussion of whether yesterday’s play was dirty.
 

axx

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Total cliche but given that the Patriots now control their own destiny, I think you have to play whoever they think gives them the best chance to win.

I wouldn't mind Zappe but I doubt that happens.
 
Aug 9, 2015
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Even if it does go unpunished, it's an example of a quarterback who doesn't seem to have his head in the game -- taking out a guy 5-10 yards away from the ball for no conceivable reason

edit ... that's the type of move that can get a Patriots player injured in retribution
And also cause Mac to lose respect in his own locker room. He’s getting difficult to root for, to be honest.
 

PedrosRedGlove

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Dec 5, 2005
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He dove at the front of his legs. That's not a cheap shot. It's a block you see in the NFL. Mac doesn't try to chase down the play and people complain he isn't trying. Then he tries and he's a cheap shot artist.

"Petulant child" "Moron". Lol. You really do sit on a truly impressive throne of judgement. I wonder what that must feel like, to be perfect. If only we could all be like you.
The refs had been whistling the play dead for a good 3 seconds. Besides the fact it was 10 yards behind the play with no bearing on it at all... The dead play. That's pretty cheap.
 

BigJimEd

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He dove at the front of his legs. That's not a cheap shot. It's a block you see in the NFL.
Not true. Besides the play being dead as mentioned, it is illegal to block below the waist after a change of possession or downfield.

It's just a dangerous play that leads to serious injuries.
 

tbb345

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Apr 23, 2010
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He dove at the front of his legs. That's not a cheap shot. It's a block you see in the NFL. Mac doesn't try to chase down the play and people complain he isn't trying. Then he tries and he's a cheap shot artist.

"Petulant child" "Moron". Lol. You really do sit on a truly impressive throne of judgement. I wonder what that must feel like, to be perfect. If only we could all be like you.
I don’t think anyone is complaining that he chased down the play…but diving at someone’s legs thats a good 5 yards behind the play who doesn’t have the ball is dirty and that doesn’t even account for the fact that the whistle had already blown.

You can like Mac or hate his guts but I don’t understand how you could stick up for that play at all
 

tbb345

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I wonder how much of that was overcompensation for the criticism he got for his poor attempt at tackling on the final play last week.
NDame616 already laid out why this is probably wrong but if you are right that’s probably worse. If criticism gets into his head that much that he’s randomly chop blocking people to show “effort” that’s pretty mentally weak
 

Manuel Aristides

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I'm not going to quote anyone because this is universally the case, but I am always fascinated that perceived "dirty play" is such a bridge-burning thing for so many fans. I'm not judging anyone who feels that way, but, we do often see less outrage over more odious/unforgivable behavior than a lazy poor-sport tackle from other pro athletes. Again, not pointing any fingers at any particular posters, not even saying there's anything wrong with the discrepancy, just noting an observation. Few values as easily impuned as sportsmanship, it would seem.

Personally the tackle to me looks like it's made out of frustration and while that's definitely not laudable or wise, I can empathize with it. I can imagine doing (and regretting) that in the heat of the moment. Drunk driving, as a random common example, I personally find less forgivable than that tackle. I'd much rather they cut moderately productive DUI offenders than sportsmanship ones.

Edit: as to the thread subject itself, I think Mac could be "good enough" on an otherwise strong/smart offense, an evolved version of last year's team. But he's not a creator, he's average for the league at best. That can work if they improve elsewhere, and given the draft capital they spent, I expect that will be the '23 tack.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Apr 12, 2005
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While I agree that kicking the tires on 26-year old Gardner Minshew seems like a terrible idea; particularly for the bolded, but also because Minshew has never been very good, the Dallas pass defense is a top 10 squad this year.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2022/opp.htm
They were a very good pass defense early in the year. They lost Anthony Brown (starting corner) to an achilles in Week 13. They lost their starting nickel CB, Jourdan Lewis, after week 7. During their 1st 10 games, they only gave up 200 yards passing in 2 games. They've given up 200 passing yards in 5 consecutive games since, including 311 and 355 the past two weeks. They've been very lucky in that they've forced 14 turnovers in the past 4 games (going 3-1), but their defense is starting to get really banged up right now. They are even more fortunate that they hit on DaRon Bland, a 5th round pick (167th overall) that's playing like an all-pro right now.
 

BigSoxFan

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I'm not going to quote anyone because this is universally the case, but I am always fascinated that perceived "dirty play" is such a bridge-burning thing for so many fans. I'm not judging anyone who feels that way, but, we do often see less outrage over more odious/unforgivable behavior than a lazy poor-sport tackle from other pro athletes. Again, not pointing any fingers at any particular posters, not even saying there's anything wrong with the discrepancy, just noting an observation. Few values as easily impuned as sportsmanship, it would seem.

Personally the tackle to me looks like it's made out of frustration and while that's definitely not laudable or wise, I can empathize with it. I can imagine doing (and regretting) that in the heat of the moment. Drunk driving, as a random common example, I personally find less forgivable than that tackle. I'd much rather they cut moderately productive DUI offenders than sportsmanship ones.

Edit: as to the thread subject itself, I think Mac could be "good enough" on an otherwise strong/smart offense, an evolved version of last year's team. But he's not a creator, he's average for the league at best. That can work if they improve elsewhere, and given the draft capital they spent, I expect that will be the '23 tack.
Why are you comparing off field behavior to on field behavior? Would you want to root for a Sox pitcher who continually throws at batters’ heads? What about if the Celtics had Grayson Allen? What Mac did was dirty and cheap. Making a career in the NFL is tough. The player he tried to take out could have easily had his ruined by Mac’s attempt. The fact that he’s acting out of frustration isn’t a good justification. Doesn’t make Mac a bad human being but his on field persona needs some adjustments.