The 2018 NBA Draft

JakeRae

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At least some people seem to be assuming Ainge will look to trade back because he did it once. I do not think this accurately reflects Ainge's history in the draft. He has, in the past, both traded up and shown a willingness to try to trade up. He has also traded down. I think the apt lesson is that Ainge targets specific players and will try to move himself into the right spot to get those players. It would not be shocking to see Ainge trade down a little in this class, particularly if it looked like the guy he wants would go lower than his draft slot. But, it also would not be at all surprising to see Ainge package the Lakers and Memphis picks, for example, to move up a couple spots to land his guy if we have the 4 or 5 pick and he wants someone who would go 2 or 3.

The Tatum trade was based on Ainge's valuation of the draft talent v. consensus creating value in moving back. If Ainge agrees with consensus and another team drafting higher doesn't, there's no reason to think the opposite wouldn't happen this year just like there is no reason to assume a similar opportunity to move marginally back, get our player, and add a valuable pick would present itself again.

This isn't the NFL, where Belichick systematically exploited a weakness in how other teams valued future and second round picks v. first round picks for years before anyone figured it out.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Actually now that I'm deep in the weeds on this I found the Ainge move, which is to swap spots with the Suns in exchange for Miami's unprotected 2021 first rounder.
We already have the #1 pick in the 2021 draft, and our own pick.
 

Eddie Jurak

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At least some people seem to be assuming Ainge will look to trade back because he did it once. I do not think this accurately reflects Ainge's history in the draft. He has, in the past, both traded up and shown a willingness to try to trade up. He has also traded down. I think the apt lesson is that Ainge targets specific players and will try to move himself into the right spot to get those players. It would not be shocking to see Ainge trade down a little in this class, particularly if it looked like the guy he wants would go lower than his draft slot. But, it also would not be at all surprising to see Ainge package the Lakers and Memphis picks, for example, to move up a couple spots to land his guy if we have the 4 or 5 pick and he wants someone who would go 2 or 3.

The Tatum trade was based on Ainge's valuation of the draft talent v. consensus creating value in moving back. If Ainge agrees with consensus and another team drafting higher doesn't, there's no reason to think the opposite wouldn't happen this year just like there is no reason to assume a similar opportunity to move marginally back, get our player, and add a valuable pick would present itself again.

This isn't the NFL, where Belichick systematically exploited a weakness in how other teams valued future and second round picks v. first round picks for years before anyone figured it out.
I think move up is a little less likely because Ainge may be still be looking to marshal assets for a big future deal. But I agree he could do either, or stand pat.
 

nighthob

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Jul 15, 2005
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If ATL stays at No.1: Will they stick to Schröder and then pick a big man? Which means no Doncic and no Young for the Hawks?
This is the NBA, not the NFL. You ignore “fit” when you’re drafting at the top of the lottery and take your shot at talent. You can always make the pieces fit later.

That being said I’m skeptical that anyone takes Trae Young #1, but if the Hawks were shut out at the top of the lottery and found themselves in the 4/5 hole, then no, Grondo isn’t going to stop them from picking the best player available.

This goes for Boston as well, if they find themselves drafting #2 then I imagine that they’ll be choosing from between Doncic and Bagley, no matter how many people want them to draft Bamba (and honestly I suspect they’d put Ayton over Bamba too).

On the other hand, Doncic fits the Sixers so well that if he’s still on the board when the Celtics pick I could see Philly doing everything they could to get him. Which will send me into hysterics when they deal Fultz and the Kings pick for Rozier and Doncic.
 

HomeRunBaker

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At least some people seem to be assuming Ainge will look to trade back because he did it once. I do not think this accurately reflects Ainge's history in the draft. He has, in the past, both traded up and shown a willingness to try to trade up. He has also traded down. I think the apt lesson is that Ainge targets specific players and will try to move himself into the right spot to get those players. It would not be shocking to see Ainge trade down a little in this class, particularly if it looked like the guy he wants would go lower than his draft slot. But, it also would not be at all surprising to see Ainge package the Lakers and Memphis picks, for example, to move up a couple spots to land his guy if we have the 4 or 5 pick and he wants someone who would go 2 or 3.
You are all over the place here. I'm still unsure what your point is. I do agree that Ainge DOES absolutely target specific players and has done so since his first day on the job in 2003 however that usually entails moving UP in the NBA draft as the talent disparity typically has a quick and deep dropoff making trading up for greater talent the better strategy (unlike say the NFL where the disparity isn't that great so multiple lower picks often generate a greater return which is rare in the NBA). There were 4 PG's who were in the group in 2003 to be drafted beginning at 13 when we needed a young PG but had picks 16 and 20. He moved up to 13 to select Marcus Banks who fits Ainge's mold of the aggressive athletic and powerful guards like Tony Allen, Smart, and Rozier (even Lester Hudson fit that physical profile). We all know how badly he wanted Olynyk enough to move up for him rather than move down for Giannis or my guy in that draft, Gobert.

Last summer was unique in that the "consensus" #1 played a position where we are loaded (as was the #2 pick) along with the gap to 3/4 maybe not being a gap at all. In this case, there was tremendous value in acquiring another high lottery asset along with this swap......this is not the norm. What makes this even more interesting is that a similar dynamic could exist this summer with so many teams looking at Doncic/Bagley and willing to overpay to move up still netting Ainge someone like Ayton or Bamba (who I'm loving more and more as a mini-Mutombo) along with high quality future assets to continue stockpiling.



The Tatum trade was based on Ainge's valuation of the draft talent v. consensus creating value in moving back. If Ainge agrees with consensus and another team drafting higher doesn't, there's no reason to think the opposite wouldn't happen this year just like there is no reason to assume a similar opportunity to move marginally back, get our player, and add a valuable pick would present itself again.

This isn't the NFL, where Belichick systematically exploited a weakness in how other teams valued future and second round picks v. first round picks for years before anyone figured it out.

What makes Ainge tremendous in competing against other GM's is that he, like Belichick, often takes a contrarian view which makes him agreeing with the consensus value not very likely. He also has a much different team building methodology in that he isn't in asset-accumulation mode but also building a championship contender right now so Ainge IS also valuing "fit" which is why he never mentioned Fultz by name in his initial post-lottery win presser. The same could be said of Doncic or in how large/small he feels the gaps are between Bagley, Ayton, and Bamba.....have I mentioned how much Bamba has impressed me thus far?

I cannot imagine Ainge trading UP as the cost would be too great (GM's of bad teams typically don't move down as a major mistake would likely cost them their job) however I could certainly see him moving down from 2 or even 3 if he knows his targeted guy will be there. Of course there will be the constant Brow rumors should the Lakers pick convey which I'd imagine could be tempting for both sides but that really is separate from moving up/down in the draft.
 

DJnVa

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When Ainge comes out of this draft with the Brow AND a future asset he got from trading down from #2 to #3 then sending #3 to NO in a deal...well....
 

lovegtm

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When Ainge comes out of this draft with the Brow AND a future asset he got from trading down from #2 to #3 then sending #3 to NO in a deal...well....
Everyone on the board will be up in arms that he traded down from the clear consensus #2 guy.
 

DJnVa

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Young went for 27 points, 9 assists, 10 boards, but had 6 TOs and was just 1/6 from three. He did hit 12/13 FTs.
 

BigSoxFan

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Young went for 27 points, 9 assists, 10 boards, but had 6 TOs and was just 1/6 from three. He did hit 12/13 FTs.
I’ve watched him a little bit and TOs are definitely part of the package until he gets more refined. Like Westbrook, he handles the ball so much that some TOs are just the cost of doing business. He seems to like taking incredibly deep 3’s, which may fly in college but won’t fly in the pros unless he really is another Curry. Has a tendency of getting a little out of control when he drives based on the games I’ve seen. Also doesn’t seem to like to finish with his left hand when driving left. Passing is quite good as evidenced by his assist totals. I can imagine that Philly would be all over him if they had the opportunity at #6 (which they hopefully won’t).
 

AMS25

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Young went for 27 points, 9 assists, 10 boards, but had 6 TOs and was just 1/6 from three. He did hit 12/13 FTs.
Yes, Young had a poor 3-point shooting night, and did have some TO's. But, he should have had more assists; some of his teammates didn't finish what he started. The officials blew a lot of whistles, and OU generally benefited. So, many of Young's points came from free-throw shooting.

I also agree with BigSoxFan's point that Young does get a little out of control when he drives. However, his defenders don't always catch up to him and his capacity to change speeds, so it isn't as fatal as it might be. In the pros, who knows.
 

uk_sox_fan

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12/7/4 (3 for 5 3p) in 22 min for Doncic last night including 8 pts down the stretch to put away league rival Baskonia and keep Real Madrid atop of La Liga.
 

Swedgin

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Watched Marcus Howard hang 52 on PC last night. As impressive as his shooting and finishing at the rim were, his feel on the pick and role really stood out.
 

DannyDarwinism

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Trae Young goes head-to-head with the reigning Big 12 DPOY Jevon Carter tonight. Cracking WVU's defense should be a major test for Young. Carter is a menace on D and he'll be amped up tonight. Should be a fun one.
 

nighthob

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Watched Marcus Howard hang 52 on PC last night. As impressive as his shooting and finishing at the rim were, his feel on the pick and role really stood out.
Markus is my current “He’s going to be a star, I tell ya!” player. (Everyone here will tell you that I’m not rational where the Marquette guys are concerned.)
 

Green (Tongued) Monster

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Trae Young is getting a little rattled tonight in Morgantown. Facing a hostile environment and one of the best defenders in college basketball in a top 10 matchup.

9 pts, 3 ast, 4 TO's on 3 of 11 shooting at the half.
 
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the moops

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Trae Young is getting a little rattled tonight in Morgantown. Facing a hostile environment and one of the best defenders in college basketball in a top 10 matchup.

9 pts, 3 ast, 4 TO's on 3 of 11 shooting at the half.
Went for 20 in the 2nd half.
Final line of 29 pts, 8/22 (3/12 from deep), 10/13 FT, 4 REB, 5 AST, 3 STL, 8 TO
 

jmm57

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Markus is my current “He’s going to be a star, I tell ya!” player. (Everyone here will tell you that I’m not rational where the Marquette guys are concerned.)
51-51 from the line on the year. Don't see many 1.000 FT%
 

the moops

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If the Celts miss out on the LAL 2018 pick, there is a chance that in 2019 they have 4 first round picks. Two lottery picks in a top 5 pick from SAC (they will still suck), and a 8-14 pick from MEM (they will probably not be as bad as this year). Then a 14 - 20 pick from LAC (maybe good enough to just sneak in the playoffs), and their own # 328ish pick
 

gingerbreadmann

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Sean Miller can't get his players to play hard for him.
"You always want your team to play for you as the coach, and our guys, they really struggle playing for me -- they really do," Miller said. "I can't get them to play hard. We do it for a while. I know we've had a win streak and we also have a good team. We have a lot of talent.

"With our team, it's really hard to get our guys to run as fast as they can. That's not them. That's me. I have a hard time reaching our guys. I can't reach them, I really can't.''
It's hard to know what to read into these statements, but this seems like the kind of thing Ainge looks closely at, should we be in position to draft Ayton.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Sean Miller can't get his players to play hard for him.


It's hard to know what to read into these statements, but this seems like the kind of thing Ainge looks closely at, should we be in position to draft Ayton.
Meh. I will chalk this up to Miller trying to motivate his team following a road loss as Pac-12 play begins for now unless other stuff occurs. I mean they had just won 9 in a row including two versus Top-10 teams......how bad could it be?
 

sezwho

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A 7-foot-1, 260-pound freshman with 7% body fat and mad skills...and the Laker's couldn't fail hard enough for me even without the pick.
 

Pedrino

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I've seen speculation that the assistant that ad helped Sean Miller connect with players was the one fired after the FBI investigation findings.

Ayton does seem to play hard when I've seen him, a little lost on defense at times, but a freak athlete that dominates the post and can move/set picks and his jump shot form is decent enough that he could become a plus shooter.
 

tims4wins

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Bagley closing in on 30 again. Tied the Duke freshman record for single season double doubles. It’s January 13.

Edit: 5th 30 point game. Another record
 
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Kliq

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It’s weird that someone I didn’t know hardly anything about in September is now the most exciting basketball player in the world.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Bagley closing in on 30 again. Tied the Duke freshman record for single season double doubles. It’s January 13.

Edit: 5th 30 point game. Another record
It isn't only points. Every week he expands his game more and more. The idea that parts of his game don't translate to the NBA is kinda mind boggling from my seat. He's a complete and total beast even against college rules designed to inhibit bigs. Offensively he's developing range with a 3-point stroke that looks REALLY good in its early development and if you contest it he's quick off the dribble drive. Defensively he's ideal at the next level with his quickness and ability to defend wings off the dribble. Where are his holes?

He's Chris Bosh++ imo.
 
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DannyDarwinism

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It’s weird that someone I didn’t know hardly anything about in September is now the most exciting basketball player in the world.
He's so much fun. There's a scout named Mike Gribanov who watches a ton of high school hoops and he was fully on the Trae bandwagon going into NCAA. He now writes for The Stepien, which is putting out great bball content.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Yeah I love the Bosh comp. If his D continues to improve... is he The Admiral II?
I don't see the Admiral comparison, even with improving D. The Admiral was a block shocking nightmare. Derrick Coleman with a motor.

edit: Or a modern day Shawn Kemp.
 

Kliq

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Yeah Ayton would have to go from being a disappointing shot blocker to being one of the best shot blockers of all time. The Robinson comps are because of his speed and physique for his size, but Robinson is one of the best prospects ever.
 

tims4wins

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Yeah Ayton would have to go from being a disappointing shot blocker to being one of the best shot blockers of all time. The Robinson comps are because of his speed and physique for his size, but Robinson is one of the best prospects ever.
We're talking about Bagley, not Ayton. But either way, Bagley is only averaging 1.1 BPG.
 

Kliq

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We're talking about Bagley, not Ayton. But either way, Bagley is only averaging 1.1 BPG.
Whoops, that was done because I have said to myself that Ayton physically reminded me of Robinson and I guess I just projected that opinion onto everyone else. Also I don’t know how to read.
 

BigSoxFan

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12 turnovers for Young tonight and 46 over last 6 games. His next coach will have some teachin’ to do.
 

Cellar-Door

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I'm starting to feel that Bamba is the best fit for this team. Ayton is terrific as well, but I have concerns about his defending. Bamba has a lot of "Gobert who can maybe shoot 3s" in his game and that would be pretty amazing for this team.
 

DannyDarwinism

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He doesn't get to 50.

Couldn't find a list for freshman individual game scoring, but I looked at a couple of guys and Chris Jackson (53) is the only one I found with more than 48.

He already has the record for most assists in a game by a freshman. A season for the ages in the making.
 

HomeRunBaker

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13-34 and 7 turnovers. The talent is undeniable but there’s a lot that needs to get cleaned up here.
I saw a total of 90 seconds of this game passing by a television and saw 2 of Young's turnovers......both of which were due to a teammate having hands of stone. This was evident in his game the other day when he had 10 turnovers......many of them weren't bad plays but some of the passes weren't designed for college players to catch and convert. Once he plays with better players, and isn't asked to make a play on literally every single possession, those turnover numbers will be just fine.

My issue with him is that defensively he may not be as good as Isaiah on that end of the floor. Not concerned about the turnover number at all.
 

BigSoxFan

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I saw a total of 90 seconds of this game passing by a television and saw 2 of Young's turnovers......both of which were due to a teammate having hands of stone. This was evident in his game the other day when he had 10 turnovers......many of them weren't bad plays but some of the passes weren't designed for college players to catch and convert. Once he plays with better players, and isn't asked to make a play on literally every single possession, those turnover numbers will be just fine.

My issue with him is that defensively he may not be as good as Isaiah on that end of the floor. Not concerned about the turnover number at all.
I’ve watched a decent amount of him since he started blowing up. He won’t have the ball as much in the NBA but he does play out of control a bit. Some of the turnovers are related to teammates and some of it is due to forcing the issue. He’s clearly very skilled but I think his NBA success will depend on the organization he joins, which is true for a lot of players. Agree that he needs a lot of work on defense.
 

uk_sox_fan

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“Fun” is the best way to describe his games. Yesterday he was all over the place, shooting from 30+ feet, driving through clogged lanes, etc. When he was on and leading his team back he was unconscious. Hitting from everywhere despite the Cowboys throwing everything they had at him.

But he also would force the issue and created quite a few TOs himself - no stone-handed teammates at fault. And down the stretch he tried a few too many 30-footers that wouldn’t fall and so his team lost.

Amazing talent but still needs to learn how to harness it IMO.
 

DannyDarwinism

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His A/TO ratio is on par with the non-Lonzo PGs from last year, and better than any college season from John Wall, Steph or Lillard, to name a few. His high raw turnover numbers are the result of his usage, which is unprecedented. He takes pretty good care of the ball, it's just that he has it a ton.

The poor shot selection is more concerning, but probably something more easily addressed through coaching.