The 2022 String - push or pull?

[simplicio]

I kind of want to give Kike more playing time to see if he's worth making an offer to this winter. If he proves he can still hit I think we can find a spot for him.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

You're right. The Sox will certainly not have a DFA party, because DFAing players won't accomplish any money savings. When a player is DFAed, the DFAing team is still on the hook for his contract. E.g. JBJ: the Sox DFA him, Toronto picks him up, pays the MLB minimum portion of his salary and the Sox are on the hook for the rest.

Waiving players, which most posters here are talking about, works like this:

"Any player under contract may be placed on waivers ("waived") at any time. Before the abolition of August trades in 2019, teams were required to place any player they wished to trade after MLB's July 31 trade deadline on waivers before trading him.

If a player is waived, any team may claim him. If more than one team claims the player from waivers, the team with the weakest record in the player's league gets preference. If no team in the player's league claims him, the claiming team with the weakest record in the other league gets preference. In the first month of the season, preference is determined using the previous year's standings.

If a team claims a player off waivers and has a viable claim as described above, his current team (the "waiving team") may choose one of the following options:

• arrange a trade with the claiming team for that player within two business days of the claim; or
• refuse the claiming team's request and keep the player on its major league roster, effectively canceling the waiver; or
• do nothing and allow the claiming team to do three things: assume the player's existing contract, pay the waiving team a waiver fee, and place the player on its active major league roster.

If a player is claimed and the waiving team exercises its rescission option, the waiving team may not use the option again for that player in that season—a subsequent waiver would be irrevocable with a claiming team getting the player essentially for nothing.[8] If no team claims a player off waivers after three business days, the player has cleared waivers and may be assigned to a minor league team, traded (to any team), or released outright.

The waiver "wire" is a secret within the personnel of the Major League Baseball clubs; no official announcement of a waiver is made until a transaction actually occurs, although information sometimes leaks out.[8][9] Before the abolition of post-July 31 trades, players were often waived during the post-July "waiver-required" trading period for teams to gauge trade interest in a particular player.[8] Usually, when the player was claimed, the waiving team would rescind the waiver to avoid losing the player unless a trade could be worked out with the claiming team."

So what we're talking about here is the point bolded above -- waiving players to allow their contracts to be picked up by another team (no trades possible after the trade deadline). That's the only way to achieve the financial savings to possibly get under the tax cap.

Personally, I'd be fine with letting go of JD, Kiké, Wacha, Eovaldi and Hill if it would get the team under the cap. Especially JD. I'd let just JD go, regardless of getting under the tax.

Minor nitpick, but DFA alone does not mean that the team is on the hook for anything. DFA (Designating for Assignment) is just the process by which a team declares its intent to remove a player from the 40-man roster. Waivers are part and parcel of the DFA process. A DFA player can be traded or put on waivers. It's only after the player passes through waivers that they are given an outright release so that the team is on the hook for the remainder of the contract value (and a new team can sign them for the pro-rated minimum).

 

[Mueller's Twin Grannies]

As good as he's been swinging the bat lately, I just don't see what role Plawecki has on this team moving forward. He might get claimed, and they could use it as an excuse to call up Hernández to see what he has.

 

[dynomite]

Waiving players, which most posters here are talking about, works like this:

Sorry for my sloppiness, thanks for the context, and, in the future, I gently suggest giving posters here a little bit more benefit of the doubt. To wit, this is the process I was referring to. I’ll be more disciplined in the future about my uses of waivers, DFA, and all the other roster machinations.

Minor nitpick, but DFA alone does not mean that the team is on the hook for anything. DFA (Designating for Assignment) is just the process by which a team declares its intent to remove a player from the 40-man roster. Waivers are part and parcel of the DFA process. A DFA player can be traded or put on waivers. It's only after the player passes through waivers that they are given an outright release so that the team is on the hook for the remainder of the contract value (and a new team can sign them for the pro-rated minimum).

 

[lexrageorge]

You're right. The Sox will certainly not have a DFA party, because DFAing players won't accomplish any money savings. When a player is DFAed, the DFAing team is still on the hook for his contract. E.g. JBJ: the Sox DFA him, Toronto picks him up, pays the MLB minimum portion of his salary and the Sox are on the hook for the rest.

Waiving players, which most posters here are talking about, works like this:

"Any player under contract may be placed on waivers ("waived") at any time. Before the abolition of August trades in 2019, teams were required to place any player they wished to trade after MLB's July 31 trade deadline on waivers before trading him.

If a player is waived, any team may claim him. If more than one team claims the player from waivers, the team with the weakest record in the player's league gets preference. If no team in the player's league claims him, the claiming team with the weakest record in the other league gets preference. In the first month of the season, preference is determined using the previous year's standings.

If a team claims a player off waivers and has a viable claim as described above, his current team (the "waiving team") may choose one of the following options:

• arrange a trade with the claiming team for that player within two business days of the claim; or
• refuse the claiming team's request and keep the player on its major league roster, effectively canceling the waiver; or
• do nothing and allow the claiming team to do three things: assume the player's existing contract, pay the waiving team a waiver fee, and place the player on its active major league roster.

If a player is claimed and the waiving team exercises its rescission option, the waiving team may not use the option again for that player in that season—a subsequent waiver would be irrevocable with a claiming team getting the player essentially for nothing.[8] If no team claims a player off waivers after three business days, the player has cleared waivers and may be assigned to a minor league team, traded (to any team), or released outright.

The waiver "wire" is a secret within the personnel of the Major League Baseball clubs; no official announcement of a waiver is made until a transaction actually occurs, although information sometimes leaks out.[8][9] Before the abolition of post-July 31 trades, players were often waived during the post-July "waiver-required" trading period for teams to gauge trade interest in a particular player.[8] Usually, when the player was claimed, the waiving team would rescind the waiver to avoid losing the player unless a trade could be worked out with the claiming team."

So what we're talking about here is the point bolded above -- waiving players to allow their contracts to be picked up by another team (no trades possible after the trade deadline). That's the only way to achieve the financial savings to possibly get under the tax cap.

Personally, I'd be fine with letting go of JD, Kiké, Wacha, Eovaldi and Hill if it would get the team under the cap. Especially JD. I'd let just JD go, regardless of getting under the tax.

Teams can no longer arrange a trade with the claiming team. Trade deadline is now an absolute deadline.

 

[nvalvo]

I kind of want to give Kike more playing time to see if he's worth making an offer to this winter. If he proves he can still hit I think we can find a spot for him.

A Kiké who can still hit is like the sixth most attractive position player FA.

 

[Rovin Romine]

A Kiké who can still hit is like the sixth most attractive position player FA.

I'm not sure why people seem to think his career year by WAR (tied to his playing CF) is indicative of future performance. It seems very much an outlier.

 

[nvalvo]

I'm not sure why people seem to think his career year by WAR (tied to his playing CF) is indicative of future performance. It seems very much an outlier.

My comment was as much about the FA marketplace as it was about Kiké. You get down to guys projected to have 2-ish WAR pretty quickly.

Judge
Turner
Bogaerts
Swanson
Gallo
Mancini
Bell
Abreu
Nimmo
Brantley
Benintendi
Martinez

Where do you put Kiké in this list? I said sixth earlier, but perhaps it's more like ninth: Nimmo territory. The point remains.

 

[Mueller's Twin Grannies]

My biggest fear is they'll go on enough of a run to warrant not cutting anyone, but still finish 3 games out of a playoff spot and over the LTT. And I doubt anyone gets cut any time soon, at this point.

 

[Rovin Romine]

My comment was as much about the FA marketplace as it was about Kiké. You get down to guys projected to have 2-ish WAR pretty quickly.

Well, in terms of this tread's premise, I don't think it's foregone the Sox should, say, extend him a 2 year deal right now, and shut him down to rest for the remainder of the season.

 

[chawson]

I'm not sure why people seem to think his career year by WAR (tied to his playing CF) is indicative of future performance. It seems very much an outlier.

His 2018 is very similar, isn’t it? His so-so 2019 was dragged down by a left hand injury and 2020 was 2020, and in both years he was a part-time player. His rough/unlucky April 2021 at the top of the lineup didn’t endear him to many people out of the gate, but he more than rebounded, and of course, this year’s struggles are well explained by the hematoma.

I get that that’s probably too many exceptions to make in some people’s eyes. I agree that there’s a bit of volatility in his game, but in my eyes his true talent level is a 110 wRC+ hitter with superb center field defense and plus-plus makeup/clubhouse qualities, which is very valuable overall. I think he’s probably a comparable asset to Nimmo, who has great plate discipline and defense (and has been similarly injury prone). But I think Kiké’s versatility is helpful, and Nimmo seems too similar to Verdugo on this team.

 

[Rovin Romine]

His 2018 is very similar, isn’t it? His so-so 2019 was dragged down by a left hand injury and 2020 was 2020, and in both years he was a part-time player. His rough/unlucky April 2021 at the top of the lineup didn’t endear him to many people out of the gate, but he more than rebounded, and of course, this year’s struggles are well explained by the hematoma.

I get that that’s probably too many exceptions to make in some people’s eyes. I agree that there’s a bit of volatility in his game, but in my eyes his true talent level is a 110 wRC+ hitter with superb center field defense and plus-plus makeup/clubhouse qualities, which is very valuable overall. I think he’s probably a comparable asset to Nimmo, who has great plate discipline and defense (and has been similarly injury prone). But I think Kiké’s versatility is helpful, and Nimmo seems too similar to Verdugo on this team.

I think it's fair to expect that across a healthy ML season in 2023, he'll come out to an above average hitter, with some hot and cold streaks. He'll also play a good CF.

But the question for the thread is "What do you want to see happen vis-a-vis the remainder of the games they play in 2023?"

simplicio said:

I kind of want to give Kike more playing time to see if he's worth making an offer to this winter. If he proves he can still hit I think we can find a spot for him.

Do you play him, or shut him down, or what?

 

[chawson]

I think it's fair to expect that across a healthy ML season in 2023, he'll come out to an above average hitter, with some hot and cold streaks. He'll also play a good CF.

But the question for the thread is "What do you want to see happen vis-a-vis the remainder of the games they play in 2023?"

https://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?goto/post&id=5150514

Do you play him, or shut him down, or what?

Ah, well I’m sure he wants to prove he’s healthy going into FA, so I don’t think it makes sense to shut him down unless he’s hurt again. If we wanna extend a year or two now, then maybe? But seeing him healthy and productive for a month would help clarify our decision to retain him too. All we know is that Duran has not presented us with an in-house candidate.

 

[Mueller's Twin Grannies]

No Casas call-up. Looks like I was right about Cora not wanting him in the Majors this year, though I'm curious why he isn't getting the call to replace Hosmer, even if for a couple of days.

 

[E5 Yaz]

No Casas call-up. Looks like I was right about Cora not wanting him in the Majors this year, though I'm curious why he isn't getting the call to replace Hosmer, even if for a couple of days.

You realize there are 30 days in September, plus a few in October, right?

 

[Mueller's Twin Grannies]

You realize there are 30 days in September, plus a few in October, right?

I do, but many expected him to get the call today. Cora's comments the other week about him not playing enough baseball in the last two years was suggestive that he was not being eyed for a call up this season. He still could be, sure, but it sounded like Cora wants to give him a lot more time before putting him on the active roster. That may be next year at this point.

I also think Cora is loyal to his guys on the team and think he will put Bobby and Franchy out there rather than calling up Casas for a cup of coffee. If anything, it'll help their draft status more.

 

[JCizzle]

No Casas call-up. Looks like I was right about Cora not wanting him in the Majors this year, though I'm curious why he isn't getting the call to replace Hosmer, even if for a couple of days.

Why do you think that's the manager's decision and not the front office's? I'm sure Cora has input into all of these decisions, but ultimately roster management isn't his primary responsibility.

 

[scottyno]

I do, but many expected him to get the call today. Cora's comments the other week about him not playing enough baseball in the last two years was suggestive that he was not being eyed for a call up this season. He still could be, sure, but it sounded like Cora wants to give him a lot more time before putting him on the active roster. That may be next year at this point.

I also think Cora is loyal to his guys on the team and think he will put Bobby and Franchy out there rather than calling up Casas for a cup of coffee. If anything, it'll help their draft status more.

Didn't he effectively bench one of his guys twice this season already for someone who wasn't on the team? Also, pretty sure Cora doesn't make roster call-ups.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

I do, but many expected him to get the call today. Cora's comments the other week about him not playing enough baseball in the last two years was suggestive that he was not being eyed for a call up this season. He still could be, sure, but it sounded like Cora wants to give him a lot more time before putting him on the active roster. That may be next year at this point.

It's not up to Cora.

 

[YTF]

Personally I'd like to see Dalbec get the Duran treatment and go work on a few things to close out the season. Granted, overall he's further along than Duran, but IMO bringing up Casas and optioning Dalbec could be multifunctional at this point in the season. Perhaps they wait on Casas until they hit the road, but I'd probably rather he start off vs Texas' pitching staff than Tampa's.